Guild Wars 2

Example: JQ have a map queue blob running condition heavy builds (which is already cheesemode because they outnumber us and because conditions are able to be applied faster than classes can cleanse) BUT what is also occuring is that JQ have their own lag that they bring due to the sheer ridiculous size of their map blob.

What happens is that due to the lag utilities and such cannot be used properly, if at all – this also means things such as blasting waters and what not are impossible too. So whilst everyone is fighting and lagging – if one was to try to cleanse the conditions, one cannot. Meanwhile the conditions continue to tick damage whilst the server lags.

Ergo conditions have an unfair advantage in wvw, especially in tier 1 or wherever there are ridiculous map blobs.

inb4 ppl say to leave t1.
Inb4 ppl say to play conditions too.

Arenanet it is time for you to pay attention to wvw and fix these glaring issues.

WvW wont get fixed , conditions need to behave like this since they wanted an alternative way for damage in pve, pvp side is in automode, all they will do is counter with new specs/traits with some gimmicks behind it, imaine the new guard trait that will make lots of fire stacks converting condis on allies to 5 players in aoe of those allies.

damage output will get worse…

FXLEACH.9436:

Example: JQ have a map queue blob running condition heavy builds (which is already cheesemode because they outnumber us and because conditions are able to be applied faster than classes can cleanse)

What!? This makes no sense at all. You’re probably standing in the melee train eating all the damage and the condi’s that come with it. how about dodging left or right and avoiding the condi’s and damage.

jamesdolla.3954:

FXLEACH.9436:

Example: JQ have a map queue blob running condition heavy builds (which is already cheesemode because they outnumber us and because conditions are able to be applied faster than classes can cleanse)

What!? This makes no sense at all. You’re probably standing in the melee train eating all the damage and the condi’s that come with it. how about dodging left or right and avoiding the condi’s and damage.

You seem to be overreacting and/or trolling? My post makes sense because I’m reporting factual gameplay. Nothing you wrote has any value because if it was so simple as just dodging left or right to avoid the condis and damage when fighting a map queue blob I wouldn’t have bothered to make the thread. I’ve played wvw since the beginning and I know what I’m talking about. If you really need me to hold your hand here I can get some footage to prove what I have said.

If you want to see that I know what I am doing and that I play wvw check out: http://tinyurl.com/wvwrex

Holy crap it’s rex. That video shows nothing to me. You’re just rolling over bads. Stop making excuses and get proper comp together with some condi clear and sustain.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

But, all those red circles are pretty…

On a serious note, I’m pretty sure FXLEACH knows what he’s talking about. I run with his tag all the time.

FXLEACH.9436:

Ergo conditions have an unfair advantage in wvw, especially in tier 1 or wherever there are ridiculous map blobs.

inb4 ppl say to leave t1.
Inb4 ppl say to play conditions too.

Arenanet it is time for you to pay attention to wvw and fix these glaring issues.

Bad news: every matchup has servers running map blobs, all the way down to T4, because it’s an insta-win tactic due to poor game design decisions. At this point, you either blob up too, or you lose over and over until you quit the game. There won’t be anyone left by the time they lift a finger to fix it.

Odinens.5920:

But, all those red circles are pretty…

On a serious note, I’m pretty sure FXLEACH knows what he’s talking about. I run with his tag all the time.

He was on mag for a bit. He died so much people trolled him hard. I would disregard this thread.

James you’re a classic maguuma memer, I love it. But please, if you are going to make things up, try hard and make it interesting and/or funny. The thing that you made is up is that I was “trolled” on Maguuma. I went to maguuma for the mapchat service. I had a tonne of fun and sadly had to leave because of other servers going weird due to guilds moving and hopping. I didn’t really enjoy playing on maguuma because I missed socialising with ppl in voice whilst raiding – but the map chat banter was great.

And if you know me well you’d know that I die all the time. It’s a part of wvw life when you run pretty glassy like I do man.

Finally – to address some serious points – many people who have posted have somehow completely ignored a vital aspect of my original post – the fact that map blobs = lag which means condi cleans skills/utilities are not functioning. Skills are literally not kittening working. Anyone who has been in map blob fights knows this. Ergo, and I hate to have to kittening explain it again – because if you didn’t understand it the first time than you’re not going to understand it the second – but just in case someone impresses me, due to the lag creating a scenario where the cleanses are not functioning then the condis continue to stack and do damage. Please understand that many skills that power builds use are also unable to be used during this lag. Condi builds have the advantage as the condis still tick whilst things are lagging, not only this but they stack, and so the damage increase becomes phenomenal, due to people being unable to cleanse.

when u caninflict all condis to some structures and siege xD

wen you see bleeding wood and metal ;D u know how ANet is tellign u how to play, lag helps condis to not get clear as well.

This comes down to a single bloody class mechanic we have complained about over and over again but that Anet utterly refuse to kittening fix unless they’ve sneakily done it in the last couple of patches and I missed it.

Deathly kittening chill

Fighting zergs with 15 condi necros? Prepatch that was like fighting… well, a zerg with 15 condi necros. Postpatch, its like fighting a zerg with 30+ condi necros. Complete. kittening. Condi. Overload.

All other condi classes are either gimmicky or have a few types of condis thats far more easily cleansed for zergs.

Yah. I’m just asking for things to be fair. I like a fair challenge. <3

I love these topics. EVERY MMO I have ever played in a setup like this or similar to this condi rules in groups. I think a lot of power (I could be wrong) builds run glass cannons KNOWING they are and get downed by condi and then kitten. I just don’t get it. NOT saying EVERY MMO is like this just most of ones I played.

Yes I have a condi too that’s what I run in zergs though I have been more of a roamer as of late. I remember all the power build gripes and now it’s condis turn.

Funny I ran into three enemies at a camp with 3 others beside myself. Enemy is a condi mesmer, condi necro and a ranger. WE had a shot I survived the onslaught of condis for a minute or so and realized everyone else bailed on me. I asked WTF… “we’re here for our dailies…” lol. But the jist of it was surviving so long against the condis because I BUILT for it….sigh.

Get off the META and learn to build better for the current power struggle.

Dawdler.8521:

This comes down to a single bloody class mechanic we have complained about over and over again but that Anet utterly refuse to kittening fix unless they’ve sneakily done it in the last couple of patches and I missed it.

Deathly kittening chill

Fighting zergs with 15 condi necros? Prepatch that was like fighting… well, a zerg with 15 condi necros. Postpatch, its like fighting a zerg with 30+ condi necros. Complete. kittening. Condi. Overload.

All other condi classes are either gimmicky or have a few types of condis thats far more easily cleansed for zergs.

Necros have so short range that 15 longbow ranges counter them.

possible counter would be several shout traited+tropper guards, but they are still useless and die in a few seconds (guards are extremelly easy to kill if they are built for condi removal and empower bot behavior), sometimes when players cant use skill or condis + random floating power creeps from cleaves and aoes overwhelms them, what could be the counter its not actually a counter its a suicide build (due the power creep of how easy is to pull and play damage output builds).

Anyone else ever experience this?

You’re running around with your guild group of 30-40 and things just seem to get slower. Other players notice it, some even make comments about the enemy map blob. Your commander tells everyone to be ready. Then you find yourself facing the enemy twice your size.

Does a map blob running over a guardian’s Symbol of Swiftness enough to cause map wide lag?

FXLEACH.9436:

Example: JQ have a map queue blob running condition heavy builds (which is already cheesemode because they outnumber us and because conditions are able to be applied faster than classes can cleanse) BUT what is also occuring is that JQ have their own lag that they bring due to the sheer ridiculous size of their map blob.

Sorry but, that’s the 884 BG trying to load into the map.

Swamurabi.7890 thats the traditional blob warning effect even with outmanedplaying with a oc’ed amazing computer u notice those minor fps drops as in somehwere players are spamming their gaming skills or blob is near you ;P

Run more Revenants (Mallyx condi/boon removal) that also spam AoE Resistance … meta will evolve. 20%+ (never bad to have more since people screw up when to use PA) should be running Mallyx Revs. I’d argue that the 2 DH/Guard per group rule should be replaced with the 2 Mallyx Rev rule (cycle spam the boon strip) for zergs.

By the way, if you think JQ blob is bad, try going against Mag blob.

Guys please. I’m not talking about condis in normal, lag-free gameplay. I generally can deal with most enemies on my daredevil, for example, as it has quite a bit of condi cleanse – I only struggle with certain super condi heavy builds that some thieves, mesmers, necros, warriors, and engies run.

My post is specifically about the situations where there is massive server wide lag and how condition builds have an edge over others there.

Artaz that is good advice yes – and many people already do run these sorts of builds – it’s just hard to counter conditions when there is so much lag going on. In a laggy battle power builds struggle to get off their attacks, as do condi builds too, however once a condi build does get their attack off the conditions stay – and generally get ramped up and stack due to the inability to properly cleanse then (due to the lag).

And yeah I know JQ has blobs, BG has blobs, Mag has blobs, even YB has blobs. I didn’t mean to come across as if I was specifically saying one server – I just wanted to talk about the gameplay issue of the lag and the way that condis have an unfair advantage in these situations.

FXLEACH u need to see what is making the lag, guess what.

When they adress the aoe spam gameplay they will fix the lag…. wich is not what will happens, it will get worse.

FXLEACH.9436:

Guys please. I’m not talking about condis in normal, lag-free gameplay. I generally can deal with most enemies on my daredevil, for example, as it has quite a bit of condi cleanse – I only struggle with certain super condi heavy builds that some thieves, mesmers, necros, warriors, and engies run.

My post is specifically about the situations where there is massive server wide lag and how condition builds have an edge over others there.

Artaz that is good advice yes – and many people already do run these sorts of builds – it’s just hard to counter conditions when there is so much lag going on. In a laggy battle power builds struggle to get off their attacks, as do condi builds too, however once a condi build does get their attack off the conditions stay – and generally get ramped up and stack due to the inability to properly cleanse then (due to the lag).

And yeah I know JQ has blobs, BG has blobs, Mag has blobs, even YB has blobs. I didn’t mean to come across as if I was specifically saying one server – I just wanted to talk about the gameplay issue of the lag and the way that condis have an unfair advantage in these situations.

How about removing all condis/boons and passive condi/boons from traits for all weapon 1 skills, since those are the only ones that can be used during severe lag.

Light field blasts should remove 2 condies.
Condition removal skill should remove stacking condies first not some kittenty ones.
Condition skill attacks should not have power dmg on them.

Junkpile.7439:

Necros have so short range that 15 longbow ranges counter them.

Which is why longbow ranger is zerg meta…?

Dawdler.8521:

Junkpile.7439:

Necros have so short range that 15 longbow ranges counter them.

Which is why longbow ranger is zerg meta…?

cause it is not an auto aoe atack

HA HA HA HA, If deathly chill was 10 bleeding necro players on this forum would still call people noobs for complaining about balance. I hate this place lmao, the disparity between power and condi is atrocious and your kidding yourself or are a complete troll if you think otherwise.

One thing that should be noted is that boons and condis on people actually contributes to the lag. It’s a lot more signals that need to be sent to every computer in the vicinity, so with a large enough group of people it ends up as a massive spider web of signals that’s constantly being sent out over and over, which tends to strain the servers.

So, the complaint is actually about lag?

Got news for you: Lag kills, regardless of if it’s Power or Condition damage coming in at you. I haven’t noticed a difference in blob v blob kill times since launch of the game.

Now, as far as actually wiping out a blob? That goes much faster now than at launch, but only because of the changes to Ressing in WvW (namely: you have to be out of combat to res a Defeated person) and Rallying (one death=one rally).

-if your a backliner just keep your distance from the enemy commander keep positioning out from their rail track, target him for easy preference

-if your a frontliner i suggest to use Guardian’s “Save Yourselves!” follow up by “Contemplation of Purity” you have enough time for lag to remove the 99 bleed 99 burn 99 confusion 99 poison 99 torment 999 etc on the resistance made by the save yourselves skill

game should allow for simpler effects on skills. may help?

data traffic may be so heavy that the game servers in t1 cant handle it.

Sovereign.1093:

game should allow for simpler effects on skills. may help?

data traffic may be so heavy that the game servers in t1 cant handle it.

It’s not effects or visuals or even the servers themselves, it’s processing the data and the current limitations of the speed of computing with so much going on.

As it’s been stated repeatedly by ANet, the problem lies in profession design and the sheer spammability of various abilities (mostly condi/boon application and passive procs bouncing off each other) which causes huge strain on server hardware. Fixing the issue hardware/software-wise isn’t something within ANet’s control.

If they massively cut down condition and boon access and threw out out passives, we likely wouldn’t lag.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sovereign.1093:

game should allow for simpler effects on skills. may help?

data traffic may be so heavy that the game servers in t1 cant handle it.

It’s not effects or visuals or even the servers themselves, it’s processing the data and the current limitations of the speed of computing with so much going on.

As it’s been stated repeatedly by ANet, the problem lies in profession design and the sheer spammability of various abilities (mostly condi/boon application and passive procs bouncing off each other) which causes huge strain on server hardware. Fixing the issue hardware/software-wise isn’t something within ANet’s control.

If they massively cut down condition and boon access and threw out out passives, we likely wouldn’t lag.

It not as if other MMOs do not suffer from lag. The simple fact is as stuff added to a given game and more calculations need to be made (Which is NOT limited to GW2) lag goes up. If new things not added to a game people move on to find something else.

Cutting out boons and passives and Conditions is removing half the game. It akin to removing all your options from your car so it “lighter” so as to improve fuel economy.

Here I am reminded of pen and paper RPG games. They started off bare bones with minimal rules that were relatively easy to understand. Fun for a while people demanded more so yet more rules added such as specializations, more complex spells, multi-classing and the like. Soon you had ever more rules that became harder to understand and digest. People then got nostalagiac over when they first played the game in its simpler form and how much better it was.

They try to go back to the basics but a great segment of the population that plays the game finds the basics boring as they have been there and done that and they now miss all that new stuff.

This is not to say I do not feel there too many passives and boons and the like . I am not a big fan of passives myself for reasons other then lag but that said I just feel we can not look at them in a vacuum without considering the entire fabric of a given game.

I guess the primary issue is the skill lag. It is unfortunate but skill lag is something that has been complained over the years and nothing is really done about it. It is either anet doesn’t care or just has no idea how to fix, I personally don’t believe is the latter.

Regardless, in a skill lag fight your only option is to be the first to do the damage and even glass canon can win the fight.

babazhook.6805:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sovereign.1093:

game should allow for simpler effects on skills. may help?

data traffic may be so heavy that the game servers in t1 cant handle it.

It’s not effects or visuals or even the servers themselves, it’s processing the data and the current limitations of the speed of computing with so much going on.

As it’s been stated repeatedly by ANet, the problem lies in profession design and the sheer spammability of various abilities (mostly condi/boon application and passive procs bouncing off each other) which causes huge strain on server hardware. Fixing the issue hardware/software-wise isn’t something within ANet’s control.

If they massively cut down condition and boon access and threw out out passives, we likely wouldn’t lag.

It not as if other MMOs do not suffer from lag. The simple fact is as stuff added to a given game and more calculations need to be made (Which is NOT limited to GW2) lag goes up. If new things not added to a game people move on to find something else.

Cutting out boons and passives and Conditions is removing half the game. It akin to removing all your options from your car so it “lighter” so as to improve fuel economy.

Here I am reminded of pen and paper RPG games. They started off bare bones with minimal rules that were relatively easy to understand. Fun for a while people demanded more so yet more rules added such as specializations, more complex spells, multi-classing and the like. Soon you had ever more rules that became harder to understand and digest. People then got nostalagiac over when they first played the game in its simpler form and how much better it was.

They try to go back to the basics but a great segment of the population that plays the game finds the basics boring as they have been there and done that and they now miss all that new stuff.

This is not to say I do not feel there too many passives and boons and the like . I am not a big fan of passives myself for reasons other then lag but that said I just feel we can not look at them in a vacuum without considering the entire fabric of a given game.

I think you’re not recognizing the difference between cutting boon/condition access and cutting boons and conditions entirely.

The former is more akin to launch GW2 design where you’d maybe get non-permaneny boon uptime and 1 condition per attack on a condi kit with no shared application benefits rather than allowing a group of five people to stack 150 stacks of conditions within a two second window on five other targets like we can now, where we have huge chains of passives proccing each other which puts a lot of strain on resources in a large scale. More numbers and rules doesn’t make a game better if those numbers and rules are there for no good reason and inhibit the game elsewhere which if isolated works fine. That just begs for changes.

DeceiverX.8361:

babazhook.6805:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sovereign.1093:

game should allow for simpler effects on skills. may help?

data traffic may be so heavy that the game servers in t1 cant handle it.

It’s not effects or visuals or even the servers themselves, it’s processing the data and the current limitations of the speed of computing with so much going on.

As it’s been stated repeatedly by ANet, the problem lies in profession design and the sheer spammability of various abilities (mostly condi/boon application and passive procs bouncing off each other) which causes huge strain on server hardware. Fixing the issue hardware/software-wise isn’t something within ANet’s control.

If they massively cut down condition and boon access and threw out out passives, we likely wouldn’t lag.

It not as if other MMOs do not suffer from lag. The simple fact is as stuff added to a given game and more calculations need to be made (Which is NOT limited to GW2) lag goes up. If new things not added to a game people move on to find something else.

Cutting out boons and passives and Conditions is removing half the game. It akin to removing all your options from your car so it “lighter” so as to improve fuel economy.

Here I am reminded of pen and paper RPG games. They started off bare bones with minimal rules that were relatively easy to understand. Fun for a while people demanded more so yet more rules added such as specializations, more complex spells, multi-classing and the like. Soon you had ever more rules that became harder to understand and digest. People then got nostalagiac over when they first played the game in its simpler form and how much better it was.

They try to go back to the basics but a great segment of the population that plays the game finds the basics boring as they have been there and done that and they now miss all that new stuff.

This is not to say I do not feel there too many passives and boons and the like . I am not a big fan of passives myself for reasons other then lag but that said I just feel we can not look at them in a vacuum without considering the entire fabric of a given game.

I think you’re not recognizing the difference between cutting boon/condition access and cutting boons and conditions entirely.

The former is more akin to launch GW2 design where you’d maybe get non-permaneny boon uptime and 1 condition per attack on a condi kit with no shared application benefits rather than allowing a group of five people to stack 150 stacks of conditions within a two second window on five other targets like we can now, where we have huge chains of passives proccing each other which puts a lot of strain on resources in a large scale. More numbers and rules doesn’t make a game better if those numbers and rules are there for no good reason and inhibit the game elsewhere which if isolated works fine. That just begs for changes.

No , I am not missing the point at all. Many of the added boons come to us Via elite specs. It pretty hard to design a traitline that devoid of boons. More then the boons however along this line are conditions. In order to do damage via a condition build one needs to apply conditions., if traitlines or new weapons added that do not apply conditions they generally become useless or of marginal use to a condition build meaning the variety of condition builds and the choice available to them drop.

Added to that one of the great adds to the calculations used for conditions was removal of stack limits. This had little to do with condition access or the application of the same. Stack limits an artifical way of cutting total stacks that resulted in people not being to apply any damage against a targe because the limit reached. I am certain many power users would deem it unfair if the DPS that could be applied to a target from raw power capped at 10k per second wherein any damage applied over that did not count or do damage.

If you pared down on condition application not allowing more sources and removing some of those existing then everything shifts to power, there too much in the way of damage mitigation for those that use conditions already existing ,and you would have to rip away a great chunk of existing skills and traits to deal with that.

If they are going to go that far they might as well start from scratch and go Gw3 .

And yes, every fight with more then 50 players becomes is unplayable. Anet doesn’t care though, wvw is a sideshow extra.

Serkit.7836:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

Did you Read his post ? Did you even bother ? Hes mostly pointing at lag,being unable to Cleanse etc.

Shiver me timbers, matey, that were a wee bit harsh…see yerself to the plank…

Juular.4729:

I hope mike and the dev team die of cancer.

Thats a rude thing to say…. :/