Guild Wars 2

Can someone explain to me, why the condition duration food buffs have such a long duration on them? I mean both versions: +/-40% and +/-36%.

There is food for instance, that reduces stun duration and condition duration by 20%. This is food I personally like (for the effect is smaller and it has a kinda dedicated theme), although I would be okay, if it was only 15%. There is no food increasing condition duration and stun duration by 20%. A thing I do not understand.

There is condition specific food that gives only 15% condition duration bonus. So why is the specialized boost worse than the general boost?

The effects of the general condition duration food seem so much stronger compared to other versions of food for toughness, power or ferocity for instance.

To understand, where I come from:
I myself play (mostly) Mesmer with mainly 3 builds: Power Shatter, Condition MtD Shatter and CI Lockdown. I never used the -condi duration food and I usually don’t use the +condi duration food, unless one of my opponents is using the defensive version on top of smth. like a shout heal build with soldier runes.

I do not say either version is overpowered. I just think it is in comparison an outstanding strong food. A design decisions I do not understand.

There is also food that reduces duration by 40% you can use to combat the +40%.

I was thinking about this the other day. If you go by the stats as they’re laid out in the trait paths (Power, Precision, Toughness, Vitality, Boon Dur, Cond Dur, Ferocity, Healing) where then it would only be 10% for lvl 80 food since that would be equivalent to 100 points of any of the other stats. And similarly the Boon Duration food would be 10% as well instead of 20%.

And with you bringing up the individual condition duration foods being at 15% it seems only logical that a food that buffs ALL condition durations would be shorter, e.g. 10%.

I’d try to draw a parallel to runes, but once you get into the +/- cond duration there doesn’t seem to be any convention like there is with numerical stats or boon duration even.

Nuzt.7894:

There is also food that reduces duration by 40% you can use to combat the +40%.

While the food is available it costs more the double that of +40% cond duration food.

+40/30min Rare Veggie Pizza: 17.65 s
+40/20min Koi Cake: 7.kitten (not sure why forty-five gets a kitten)
-40/30min Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup: 36.97 s

Sagramor.7395:

I was thinking about this the other day. If you go by the stats as they’re laid out in the trait paths (Power, Precision, Toughness, Vitality, Boon Dur, Cond Dur, Ferocity, Healing) where then it would only be 10% for lvl 80 food since that would be equivalent to 100 points of any of the other stats. And similarly the Boon Duration food would be 10% as well instead of 20%.

And with you bringing up the individual condition duration foods being at 15% it seems only logical that a food that buffs ALL condition durations would be shorter, e.g. 10%.

I’d try to draw a parallel to runes, but once you get into the +/- cond duration there doesn’t seem to be any convention like there is with numerical stats or boon duration even.

The problem is one that goes back to the game’s release. Originally there were no Giver’s weapons, no Sigil of Malice, no Toxic Oils/Stones, etc; only 1 Food type (pizza) and a handful of traits and 3 Runes that could increase Condi Duration. The reason the food was set to +40% and not +10% is that the way the game was set up at release, +10% Condi Duration would have been absolutely meaningless. It used to be that all Conditions rounded their Durations DOWN to the nearest second, so +10% of a 4-second duration, for instance, was exactly the same as +0%. If you had a 2-second duration, you actaully had to reach +50% to see any benefit at all! That’s been changed recently, so that Conditions will tick off the last fraction of their duration, but it didn’t work that way at release.

As for the Foods that give +15% Chill/Poison/Bleeding/whatever, I’ve never understood why those were in the game, and I’ve never known anyone who has used them.

Yeah I kind of agree here, but Im pretty sure the devs tend to want to push condi up as viable due to the power mentality that has pretty much run the game. On the other side of that, condi is really starting to overtake power.

If they drop condi too hard, then it doesnt produce enough damage fast enough to overtake burst power, its going to be interesting how they balance it.

Sagramor.7395:

Nuzt.7894:

There is also food that reduces duration by 40% you can use to combat the +40%.

While the food is available it costs more the double that of +40% cond duration food.

+40/30min Rare Veggie Pizza: 17.65 s
+40/20min Koi Cake: 7.kitten (not sure why forty-five gets a kitten)
-40/30min Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup: 36.97 s

This is a player problem not a game mechanic problem. Anet can’t go in and force people to charge less, if your unhappy about the pricing, take some time and go farm the mats and make your own.

Or just pay the extra silver.

Just make all conditions last 40% longer and remove +40% food. Problem solved.

nightblood.7910:

Yeah I kind of agree here, but Im pretty sure the devs tend to want to push condi up as viable due to the power mentality that has pretty much run the game. On the other side of that, condi is really starting to overtake power.

If they drop condi too hard, then it doesnt produce enough damage fast enough to overtake burst power, its going to be interesting how they balance it.

But the food actually ADDS to that problem, rather than take away from it. Many large groups just run -40% duration food, meaning without your own +40% duration food you literally do nothing. There are popular builds that can get -93% duration on chill/cripple/immob, which seriously hampers condi builds.

At the same time, for small-scales, a condi build with +40% duration is incredibly OP and almost instant-wins if the opponent doesn’t have -40% duration food.

Both of these should be shaved to like 15-20%. They would still be excellent choices, but not the obvious top choice in most situations.

TyPin.9860:

There is condition specific food that gives only 15% condition duration bonus. So why is the specialized boost worse than the general boost?

Because when the sigils and runes were balanced Anet omitted to balance the foods.

-33% Cripple/Chill/Immob duration
-40% Condition Duration Food
-25% Condition Duration from Melandru Runes

= -98% Cripple/Chill/Immob duration
= -65% Condition Duration

Can’t do anything to mitigate it either.
No boon stripping.
No waiting it out (they can just eat a bit more food … and runes and trait points don’t go away).

While I’ve taken advantage of this … I’ve always wondered how this could possibly be “balanced” for people to be able to mitigate conditions this way … particularly condition damage.

Heck, -65% on condition duration … that’s fairly ridiculous given that protection (which is strippable) is only -33% damage reduction, direct damage can’t be “cleansed”, and direct damage doesn’t have to deal with the current stack limitations.

Some stuff I hope that ArenaNet is keeping in mind moving forward with their discussions on making changes to Conditions in-game.

TyPin.9860:

Can someone explain to me, why the condition duration food buffs have such a long duration on them? I mean both versions: +/-40% and +/-36%.

Because when you break down the over all damage out put of the average direct damage build and compare it to that of the average condition build, the direct damage build averages a 25%-30% advantage damage wise. That gap grows when you add condition removal skills.

I made a post 2 years ago with pages of damage comparisons. breaking down all of the meta builds at the time, which strongly represented the difference in the damage of the two build types.

It always confused me too as to why the high level blanket condi food (i.e. koi cake) offers a +40% to all conditions, but the high level select food (i.e. fancy truffle burger) only offers a +15% to poison etc. IMO It would make more sense to have it be reversed.

Oh well, logic doesn’t go well in a world where there are rainbow shooting unicorn bows I guess.

If anything needs a tone down it’s + 40 condition duration food. There are many ways to increase Condition duration while remaining tanky. 30% from 6 in Power trait, (warrior 50% bleed, necro scepter 33%, or trap ranger) trait that increase specific condition/weapon type, 30-45% specific condition duration runes or 10-15% general condition duration runes, 20% from specific condition sigil, 10% from sigil of malice, 20% from conjure frost bow, 20% from giver weapons, 40% from food, and 10% from toxic stones. Only way to reduce condition is rune, trait, and food. If they want to tone down both -+40 food, i suggest they also tone down all of the sources of addition to condition duration, without it +100% condi duration cap could still be met.

Regardless of how many ways you can increase duration, there is an absolute hard cap that I feel takes some of the wind out of the sails of that argument.

as of now, when you figure in cleanses in essentially every build and outside cleanses, I do not feel condition builds stack up to power builds.

As of now, I do not see condition builds with the food doing more damage then direct damage builds. It I’ll someone presents a comprehensive breakdown proving otherwise, I don’t see it as any different then some other foods out there in term of value. It simply has a bit higher of a value in conjunction with a build then some other foods.

I mentioned that towards the bottom. A good player will build for + 100% condition duration and take better stats or sigils. Even after a said -+40 food nerf, the condition player can drop some stuff he took before and build up for the +100% again while the player with condition reduction can’t make up the loss of – condi. That’s why i suggested toning down the other sources of adding condition duration. Warrior with +50% bleed trait or a necro with +33% condi with scepter are or used to be the only exceptions that went above +100% condition duration.

I don’t see the value of nerfing the food based on very specific traits of specific professions.

It’s like a must, to be in the same level as the other players, and the buffs, at least some of them, are simply OP.

The +/-40% condi food is broken, people always go on about the +40% food, but the -40% food is just as bad, e.g – warrior with melandru runes, dogged march & -40% food gets -98% condi duration on soft CC, which is a complete joke against power builds that use soft CC to help land damage (necro for instance).

Which is exactly why this crap is not in PvP, it is a joke and does nothing but make the game worse.

no its not, they are buffs, they dont grant anyone godmode. I usually run with no food/utility buffs and have no issues, if someone is more skilled then you it doesnt matter what food buffs you have on you its skill that matters, go to pvp and test it out

Can you remove yourself from wvw already OP- I for one happen to like the MUCH greater build diversity that wvw allows over the ‘choose one set of stats’ tired build choices in spvp.

Nothing is overpowered about food buffs- learn to use them to your advantage and learn to counter them too.

Sagramor.7395:

Nuzt.7894:

There is also food that reduces duration by 40% you can use to combat the +40%.

While the food is available it costs more the double that of +40% cond duration food.

+40/30min Rare Veggie Pizza: 17.65 s
+40/20min Koi Cake: 7.kitten (not sure why forty-five gets a kitten)
-40/30min Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup: 36.97 s

Costs nothing if you can make the effort to make it yourself- moaning about a price difference on buff foods makes you look needy….

imo the +40% condi duration food is in line with the power food in this game in terms of additional damage. for instance the +10% damage modifier on seaweed salad is often gonna give players that use damage modifiers +20% damage effectively.

the +40% condi duration even to a 100% condi class is probably gonna do around 20% or less extra damage effectively. how fast things are cleared in this game and other factors means +40% condi duration isn’t often used to the fullest.

For example, I have a 10s bleed, it is 14s with the food but on average the guy im attacking is dead/cleared it before the 10s mark so effectively that +40% is way smaller.

On the other hand the +10% damage modifier food is never effectively worse.

Sebrent.3625:

-33% Cripple/Chill/Immob duration
-40% Condition Duration Food
-25% Condition Duration from Melandru Runes

= -98% Cripple/Chill/Immob duration
= -65% Condition Duration

Can’t do anything to mitigate it either.
No boon stripping.
No waiting it out (they can just eat a bit more food … and runes and trait points don’t go away).

While I’ve taken advantage of this … I’ve always wondered how this could possibly be “balanced” for people to be able to mitigate conditions this way … particularly condition damage.

Heck, -65% on condition duration … that’s fairly ridiculous given that protection (which is strippable) is only -33% damage reduction, direct damage can’t be “cleansed”, and direct damage doesn’t have to deal with the current stack limitations.

Some stuff I hope that ArenaNet is keeping in mind moving forward with their discussions on making changes to Conditions in-game.

I think you are forgetting condi durations in this game are additive and not multiplicative. If you hit someone with a 100% duration immob that lasts say 8 seconds, and the target has -100% condi duration, they still get hit with a 4s immob. The way you counter this is adding condi duration to your soft cc’s. Gvg guilds have been doing this for years.

I bet actually most people that think this food is OP think that condi durations multiply instead of add. Also there is a condi duration cap of 100% already. Learn how condition duration works and these foods make a lot more sense.

You know you can buy, even make your own food. If you are unwilling to spend the gold on them then that is your problem, not the game’s.

It’s like telling anet to get rid of all ascended and exotic gear because you cannot be bothered to buy anything more than greens!

Whats wrong with foods now? They compliment your build and can help with some of the minor things missing from it. Food is great in wvw.

I like my food buffs. Combined with my giver’s weapons it lets me counteract that soup that everyone seems to be so fond of! If it’s too expensive for you just buy the next lower version, it’s usually a small fraction of the price and the 1% reduction in power isn’t going to make the biggest difference in the world.

so you say that you have no problems to fight with your condi champ againt someone that have the -40%condi duration food?

There is no issue with food in WvW! It helps zerging, solo players, and roaming groups. If you can’t handle the fact that people have food buffs, then you shouldn’t be playing World. The point of World is to run in groups anyways, not to 1 v 1, so if you’re into stuff like that, with no food buffs, then go and play sPvP.

ledernierrempart.6871:

so you say that you have no problems to fight with your condi champ againt someone that have the -40%condi duration food?

If i have problems with that particular type of food I am doing something wrong and the other guys is doing right.

BigBadMofoNWolf.1674:

There is no issue with food in WvW!

Yes there is. The -40%/+40% condi food has always been over the top, restricting choices of other foods. You will always feel the need to balance it out, pushing it into the meta. Personally I think that the max should have been much more conservative. Look at runes. They dont reach anywhere near that number. Most having generic +condition only reach something like 15%, with specific conditions going higher at 25% tops. Same with -condition. Its nowhere near 40%! Why should food be that powerfull compared to runes?

But there is hardly any point in trying to argue with Anet (or anyoone else for that matter) about it now. They’re not going to “fix” the food. Best thing to hope for is always that they dont break WvW.

ledernierrempart.6871:

so you say that you have no problems to fight with your condi champ againt someone that have the -40%condi duration food?

Are you responding to me? I don’t, no hard feelings from me. It’s like me taking toughness runes or wearing armor to mitigate the effects of burst classes. And it doesn’t affect me much since I’m using +duration food and giver’s weapons. At that point it’s just like fighting someone in sPvP. Also, if they are taking food to reduce conditions then they’re giving up a possible benefit elsewhere.

Remove food from wvw is a terrible idea. They should keep the food and just tone down the ones that are too strong. Most foods have a weak or minor effect, but some are just op for a consumable.

For example +40% and -40% condi duration. A consumable been more effective than putting 6 points in one trait line is just terrible. A full rune set gives -25% at the most. Seems a terrible idea to make consumables have a higher impact than some runes/sigils/traits…

NO. One reason I avoid PvP is the lack of build diversity meaning everyone will use the same small handful of builds. Food buffs allow me to use a much wider variety of builds and traits then I normally would be able to and make them work.

Take away those buffs and many of those traits become much less useful meaning they will not be used meaning we will end up with cookie builder builds everywehre.

the 40 percent condition +/_ is not over the top. I have one build that uses the + and none that use the minus and do fine.

While we are at it lets remove armor. It’s like a must, to be in the same level as the other players, and the buffs, at least some of them, are simply OP.

Dawdler.8521:

BigBadMofoNWolf.1674:

There is no issue with food in WvW!

Yes there is. The -40%/+40% condi food has always been over the top, restricting choices of other foods. You will always feel the need to balance it out, pushing it into the meta. Personally I think that the max should have been much more conservative. Look at runes. They dont reach anywhere near that number. Most having generic +condition only reach something like 15%, with specific conditions going higher at 25% tops. Same with -condition. Its nowhere near 40%! Why should food be that powerfull compared to runes?

But there is hardly any point in trying to argue with Anet (or anyoone else for that matter) about it now. They’re not going to “fix” the food. Best thing to hope for is always that they dont break WvW.

You’re a roamer aren’t you? I’m a zerg buster. I enjoy the ability to have -95% condition duration, without any other buffs minus the food buff. I’m a guardian, so I then can run Purging Flames, and get over -100% condi duration. It’s nice. I also am a Roamer, with a few of my classes, and I run specific food depending upon my situations during the day. I tend to use Lemongrass a lot, because of imob, cripple, and random conditions depending upon who I am fighting. It’s just a safe net knowing that I don’t have to focus my traits in condi clear when I can just buy food, or even make it myself, and know that I can focus in other important things. It’s not broken in my honest opinion, and you can say what you’d like. You have your own opinion.

babazhook.6805:

NO. One reason I avoid PvP is the lack of build diversity meaning everyone will use the same small handful of builds. Food buffs allow me to use a much wider variety of builds and traits then I normally would be able to and make them work.

Take away those buffs and many of those traits become much less useful meaning they will not be used meaning we will end up with cookie builder builds everywehre.

the 40 percent condition +/_ is not over the top. I have one build that uses the + and none that use the minus and do fine.

I find it as a safety net also, so you know that you don’t have to focus in condi clear, or in other boosts that would make your class / build less specialized in something. It gives you the knowledge that you can have the extra buffs with out the need to waste traits in things that would make you less than what you want it to be.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TyPin.9860:

Can someone explain to me, why the condition duration food buffs have such a long duration on them? I mean both versions: +/-40% and +/-36%.

Because when you break down the over all damage out put of the average direct damage build and compare it to that of the average condition build, the direct damage build averages a 25%-30% advantage damage wise. That gap grows when you add condition removal skills.

I made a post 2 years ago with pages of damage comparisons. breaking down all of the meta builds at the time, which strongly represented the difference in the damage of the two build types.

Do you have a link or the title of the thread? I’d like to review those calculations

Didn’t we just have one of these threads?

Anyways, suffice it to say that the foods have desperately needed a balance pass since the launch of the game that they’ve never received.

However, it would be a great disservice to remove them from WvW. It would nearly destroy the entire value of food in the game.

ledernierrempart.6871:

so you say that you have no problems to fight with your condi champ againt someone that have the -40%condi duration food?

Yep. Just use +40% condi duration food. I make it weekly for my mesmer.

TyPin, click his name and look at his posting history.

but there are so many posts and it’s late

Both types of food need to go.
Stop arguing which side is broken, both are broken.
Also salad that gives 10% damage while movement need to be removed too.

Make food like a bonus thing, not a must have thing that hugely affect the outcome.
It’s like w/o the food, the chance of dueling and losing to dire perplex thief, condition engi, terromancer is increased by 70% or something because ALL of them are using 40% condition duration food.

Toxsa.2701:

Both types of food need to go.
Stop arguing which side is broken, both are broken.
Also salad that gives 10% damage while movement need to be removed too.

Make food like a bonus thing, not a must have thing that hugely affect the outcome.
It’s like w/o the food, the chance of dueling and losing to dire perplex thief, condition engi, terromancer is increased by 70% or something because ALL of them are using 40% condition duration food.

You are confusing your subjective opinion with that of objective fact my friend. It may be your opinion that you do not like them, but they do not need to do anything. In my opinion, they are fine, and i see no real argument that causes me to feel a change is needed.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Toxsa.2701:

Both types of food need to go.
Stop arguing which side is broken, both are broken.
Also salad that gives 10% damage while movement need to be removed too.

Make food like a bonus thing, not a must have thing that hugely affect the outcome.
It’s like w/o the food, the chance of dueling and losing to dire perplex thief, condition engi, terromancer is increased by 70% or something because ALL of them are using 40% condition duration food.

You are confusing your subjective opinion with that of objective fact my friend. It may be your opinion that you do not like them, but they do not need to do anything. In my opinion, they are fine, and i see no real argument that causes me to feel a change is needed.

Yeah I know you probably are one of those condition spec users thinking you’re good at dueling when you easily beat someone in duel, but in fact, it’s the OP food that does the work. That is exact reason why people use -40% condition duration food, because that’s the only way to counter it, that’s why the price and demand for -condition duration food is very high. Both of them should go, along with +10% damage food. Without the broken 40% duration, there’s no need for people using -condition duration food also. More diversity.

This is not my opinion, this is statistical fact. I also have a condition engi and been using condition duration food. The only spec I’ll lose to is another nec that uses condition duration food also.

Toxsa.2701:

This is not my opinion, this is statistical fact.

I do not think fact means what you thing it means.

Actually I do not run a condition spec at all. As well I rarely duel. Generally I am PINed up or running with my guild group.

I would certainly be willing to duel you if that is what your getting at. I have a personal arena, and there is no food in PvP. If you feel a lack of food would assist you.

I did I vest my time to level chef in crafting to 400 though. I am unclear as to why you wish to devalue thay from the folks who invested the time.

If you like, hit me up in game saterday evening. I can give you some pointers on defeating the condition builds. I can show you it is no more difficult to deal with then power build. You simply have to play them differently. I am certain your capable of learning.

Rocketmist.5436:

imo the +40% condi duration food is in line with the power food in this game in terms of additional damage. for instance the +10% damage modifier on seaweed salad is often gonna give players that use damage modifiers +20% damage effectively.

the +40% condi duration even to a 100% condi class is probably gonna do around 20% or less extra damage effectively. how fast things are cleared in this game and other factors means +40% condi duration isn’t often used to the fullest.

For example, I have a 10s bleed, it is 14s with the food but on average the guy im attacking is dead/cleared it before the 10s mark so effectively that +40% is way smaller.

On the other hand the +10% damage modifier food is never effectively worse.

Added to this virtually every traitline on every Class has percentage adds to direct damage. These boost to direct damage are much more plentiful then those that help with conditions.

DA line on thief is an excellent example of this as it both a source of power for power builds and duration for condition builds . (and the complaint is about durations for the most part)

I can get 300+ power for my power build PLUS 10 percent more damage (200+ more power effectively) from the grandmaster assigned trait. I can then take revealed training for 200 more power and get 5 percent more damage from combined or dagger training. I can then add that food for 100 extra power.

The only trait I can take that boosts conditions is potent poisons which is useful for poison alone rather then all damage .

Inherent to that traitline itself are far more boosts to the direct damage line and you will find this the case in most traitlines on most classes. Traits that do boost durations of conditions tend to boost only one condition type unlike traits boosting power that work on any attack.

Tommyknocker.6089:

It always confused me too as to why the high level blanket condi food (i.e. koi cake) offers a +40% to all conditions, but the high level select food (i.e. fancy truffle burger) only offers a +15% to poison etc. IMO It would make more sense to have it be reversed.

Oh well, logic doesn’t go well in a world where there are rainbow shooting unicorn bows I guess.

This is precisely why the balance is out of whack.

Some people saying that if there is a +40% and a -40% to negate the other it is balanced to have them in the game.

Now imagine if there was a -70% direct dmg food and a +70% direct dmg food. Would you say it is balanced too?

ArchonWing.9480:

This is precisely why the balance is out of whack.

Considering that they have specified that on an individual level, since release, that WvW is not only impossible to balance (that’s just common sense in my opinion) and is never intended to be, this isn’t even a valid argument.