Guild Wars 2

bugs forum it has one

Heartpains.7312:

Seriously conditions are not fine, many cleanses but not enough can never have enough cleanse for them.

You’re not supposed to cleanse all conditions – you’re supposed to die to them, just like any other attack.

I think the complaint people REALLY have against conditions is the sense of helplessness when fighting them. If you get killed by a power burst, you’re down and it’s over. If you’re killed by a condi burst, you’re still up and fighting for a few good seconds.

Sartharina.3542:

Heartpains.7312:

Seriously conditions are not fine, many cleanses but not enough can never have enough cleanse for them.

You’re not supposed to cleanse all conditions – you’re supposed to die to them, just like any other attack.

I think the complaint people REALLY have against conditions is the sense of helplessness when fighting them. If you get killed by a power burst, you’re down and it’s over. If you’re killed by a condi burst, you’re still up and fighting for a few good seconds.

Eh I tend to run an insane amount of condi clear. It gets old having to reset out of a fight because a bunch of condi huggers happen to be running with a tempest and a couple dhs. Fire aura, frost aura, dh virtues, perplex runes, chaos armor, boon corrupt, epi bombs.

There’s a stupid amount of extra condi application running around. Many straight up skills will apply enough condi to kill you outright if you don’t get it cleansed. A decent epi bomb will near insta down 5 people that don’t have resistance. Just throwing an aoe will get you stacked up vs a condi group…without them even having to cast.

Having cleanse work more efficiently would help greatly. It wouldn’t solve the low skill floor issues with many condi builds but it would help those of us that actually use and manage cleanses.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Aeolus.3615:

Just a few things to add.
Condition still pass trough guardian domes, while the phisical range damage is aborved.
Invunerability condition still tick, while phisical damag eis negated.
Condition on reflected damage dont go back to source.

This is not true. Conditions are applied through attacks, just like direct dmg (with very few and barely relevant exceptions). If you negate those attacks, which is possible with exactly the same means as negating power based attacks – evade, block, invuln, blind, interrupt and so on – no conditions will be applied.
Guardian’s domes will prevent condis from projectile based attacks just like direct dmg. They won’t prevent any form of dmg from non-projectile attacks. If you use an invuln skill after getting hit by direct dmg it does as much as using it after getting hit by a condi attack – nothing. And if you reflect condi applying projectiles, those condis will applied to who ever gets hit by the reflected projectiles.

How do u explain ranger with bow, hitting SoA, piecing damage getting absorved but im getting the conditions? do sigils conditions bypasses domes?
Ex:; sigils like fragility that are on hit.
Does pet piercing damage like twin darts bypasses SoA and SW SoA?

And if u use Renewed focus condis aplied before will still tick, that is what im saying, sory if my english isnt explicit. (it really wasnt lol…)
About the reflection tks for the correction, altough i doubt conditon duration is equal., will only reflect the base value for the condition duration of that skill.

Sartharina.3542:

I think that people are just unable to cope with the fact that something that doesn’t kill them instantly is still supposed to kill them. You’re not supposed to be able to clear every condition you take, just as you’re not supposed to be able to block or evade every hit. And just because your character is still moving and fighting doesn’t mean they haven’t taken a lethal blow.

I think that people are just unable to cope with the fact that a buid that doesn’t die instantly can still kill fast. You’re not supposed to be able to live through every situation you walk into, and you’re not supposed to be able to block or tank every hit. Yet your character can do exactly that providing you are not dumb enough to roll power build.

Aeolus.3615:

How do u explain ranger with bow, hitting SoA, piecing damage getting absorved but im getting the conditions? do sigils conditions bypasses domes?
Ex:; sigils like fragility that are on hit.
Does pet piercing damage like twin darts bypasses SoA and SW SoA?

And if u use Renewed focus condis aplied before will still tick, that is what im saying, sory if my english isnt explicit. (it really wasnt lol…)

Maybe the condis were coming from something else, not from the bow. To proc sigils he has to hit you and if he can’t hit you with his arrows, he won’t proc sigils on you. Piercing projectiles don’t go through projectile destruction, only unblockables do (ranger doesn’t has unblockable projectiles though).

And if you use your invuln after you got hit by condis it is the same as using it after you got hit by direct dmg – in both cases it won’t do anything about the dmg that got already applied.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I think that people are just unable to cope with the fact that a buid that doesn’t die instantly can still kill fast. You’re not supposed to be able to live through every situation you walk into, and you’re not supposed to be able to block or tank every hit. Yet your character can do exactly that providing you are not dumb enough to roll power build.

You are describing lots of power builds, just saying …

If something makes too much dmg nerf that spec not conditions. If you start to nerf conditions these broken specs will be only viable condi specs and other condi specs will be totally useless. Most of condi specs are already weak.

Junkpile.7439:

If something makes too much dmg nerf that spec not conditions. If you start to nerf conditions these broken specs will be only viable condi specs and other condi specs will be totally useless. Most of condi specs are already weak.

wtf is happening…..
Something is seriously wrong with the world when junkpile is making more sense than the majority of the people in this thread.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).

How can I adapt to the meta when they banned my firework build? Go cry in a corner :’(

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

Junkpile.7439:

If something makes too much dmg nerf that spec not conditions. If you start to nerf conditions these broken specs will be only viable condi specs and other condi specs will be totally useless. Most of condi specs are already weak.

Or they could just set a passive buff to all people in WvW maps that drops condi-damage taken by a set percentage amount. That alone would fix a lot of the condi problems, since then they can’t burn down people quite as fast.

Phantom.5389:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

How can I adapt to the meta when they banned my firework build? Go cry in a corner :’(

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

Nothing like a montage video to show how “op” something is. I’m sure all those footmen and invaders would have lasted a lot longer vs a power build lol.

Phantom.5389:

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

I dont know what era they live in but you seem to live in an era pre-HoT where the builds in videos clearly doesnt match builds in the descriptions unless they got 5000 extra HP from a magical HP fairy or something.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Phantom.5389:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

How can I adapt to the meta when they banned my firework build? Go cry in a corner :’(

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

Nothing like a montage video to show how “op” something is. I’m sure all those footmen and invaders would have lasted a lot longer vs a power build lol.

Was waiting for that one ^^ As you can tell it was a troll video and Anet response was to ban fireworks since noobs all around were raging about getting killed by fireworks. Now show me a video where a power build stomp noobs without any weapons → Grabs popcorn <3

As for condition burst, it pretty much kills anyone who don’t invest enough in instant condi clear/instant resistance. It’s an old build that still works as of today, the video is just one of the many exemple. Easy to reproduce while in game and easy to find on the internet, I clicked the first video that poped on my youtube research ^^

As for wheter I truly want to nerf condition, I could care less. Roamers know who is worth fighting and who is not after all those years. Roam wisely is my advice. As a warrior player, just don’t use any of your mobility skills to fight them the moment you see they are condi, you should be able to outrun them and then /laugh at them for running that cheese build, it enrage them so hard <3

Dawdler.8521:

Phantom.5389:

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

I dont know what era they live in but you seem to live in an era pre-HoT where the builds in videos clearly doesnt match builds in the descriptions unless they got 5000 extra HP from a magical HP fairy or something.

Sorry… it is on me, I’m an old dinosaur <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIUWyRgMTmM Also noticed that condi thief PvP video poped a lot while searching for roaming condi thief… sad times indeed

P.S. Build in description don’t work since the tool used to make the builds changed, not so much because the build on itself changed that much. Dire build is still Dire build in the end

Phantom.5389:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Phantom.5389:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

How can I adapt to the meta when they banned my firework build? Go cry in a corner :’(

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

Nothing like a montage video to show how “op” something is. I’m sure all those footmen and invaders would have lasted a lot longer vs a power build lol.

Was waiting for that one ^^ As you can tell it was a troll video and Anet response was to ban fireworks since noobs all around were raging about getting killed by fireworks ^^

As for condition burst, it pretty much kills anyone who don’t invest enough in instant condi clear/instant resistance. It’s an old build that still works as of today, the video is just one of the many exemple. Easy to reproduce while in game and easy to find on the internet, I clicked the first video that poped on my youtube research ^^

As for wheter I truly want to nerf condition, I could care less. Roamers know who is worth fighting and who is not after all those years. Roam wisely is my advice. As a warrior player, just don’t use any of your mobility skills to fight them the moment you see they are condi, you should be able to outrun them and then /laugh at them for running that cheese build, it enrage them so hard <3

I was roaming on my warrior today and just wrecking condi players. I wasn’t even playing well, I haven’t played my warrior in months so I had no muscle memory for the combos and cooldowns. But when you can rotate between a stupid amount of resistance, blocks, stuns, ridiculous regen, and cleanses through a 5 sec weapon swap and cleansing ire, you can afford to make plenty of mistakes and still win the fight.

Well, it really depends on the class and build, but some condition builds are a bit more effective than others, Dire gear or not.

ANet should balance things with time, but I don’t think they should nerf conditions as a whole because some conditions builds are underperforming while other clearly are bordeline OP if they hit you first.

Also, remember that you can’t always win (unless you’re pretty good and/or your opponents aren’t): in WvW, you sometime have to pick your fights. For example, on my condition chars, I won’t try to kill a warrior with 50% resistance uptime, especially not those using a two-handed sword. They’ll tear me appart and easily regen whatever damage I’ll do. In PvP, things are different and you might not always pick your fights, but you rarelly will go against a passive/defensive condition build because the Dire stat isn’t in the gear selection.

The same way you might not want to try against a good roaming mesmer, thief or druid: even if you manage to bring their health down, they’ll simply vanish/stealth/outrun you and come back later… That’s part of the game.

pyrocyborg.4162:

Well, it really depends on the class and build, but some condition builds are a bit more effective than others, Dire gear or not.

ANet should balance things with time, but I don’t think they should nerf conditions as a whole because some conditions builds are underperforming while other clearly are bordeline OP if they hit you first.

Also, remember that you can’t always win (unless you’re pretty good and/or your opponents aren’t): in WvW, you sometime have to pick your fights. For example, on my condition chars, I won’t try to kill a warrior with 50% resistance uptime, especially not those using a two-handed sword. They’ll tear me appart and easily regen whatever damage I’ll do. In PvP, things are different and you might not always pick your fights, but you rarelly will go against a passive/defensive condition build because the Dire stat isn’t in the gear selection.

The same way you might not want to try against a good roaming mesmer, thief or druid: even if you manage to bring their health down, they’ll simply vanish/stealth/outrun you and come back later… That’s part of the game.

I lift my hat to you my kind sir, pick your fights should be the moto for WvW nowadays.

Back then I had a trooper/shout tank warrior build to counter condi and I would heal myself+convert condi into boons at the speed of light (while not being able to kill anything if you truly asked me) just to troll the trolls who used condition builds.

I would swap to that build whenever a condition player kept chasing me after he clearly noticed I would not fight that trash on my regular build. Even then, my regular build got Cleansing Ire + Brawler’s recover + sigil of generosity + anti condition duration food and anti condition duration runes.

Basically, you can still kill most condition players (if they are bad or if they don’t run an immortal build where they can disengage easily while being nearly impossible to burst down due to their tankiness before they can disengage).

Jim Hunter.6821:

Phantom.5389:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Phantom.5389:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

It is not surprising that your main issue are condi thieves and mesmers – because those are the strongest roaming condi builds and because you refuse(d) to adapt your build to counter them (which is true for many players that complain about condis).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

How can I adapt to the meta when they banned my firework build? Go cry in a corner :’(

And from which era do those folks who defend condition builds live? Condition burst is the new meta mate, stop living under a rock <3 Condi burst someone with the speed of a full zerk build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtiwMnX_glY

Nothing like a montage video to show how “op” something is. I’m sure all those footmen and invaders would have lasted a lot longer vs a power build lol.

Was waiting for that one ^^ As you can tell it was a troll video and Anet response was to ban fireworks since noobs all around were raging about getting killed by fireworks ^^

As for condition burst, it pretty much kills anyone who don’t invest enough in instant condi clear/instant resistance. It’s an old build that still works as of today, the video is just one of the many exemple. Easy to reproduce while in game and easy to find on the internet, I clicked the first video that poped on my youtube research ^^

As for wheter I truly want to nerf condition, I could care less. Roamers know who is worth fighting and who is not after all those years. Roam wisely is my advice. As a warrior player, just don’t use any of your mobility skills to fight them the moment you see they are condi, you should be able to outrun them and then /laugh at them for running that cheese build, it enrage them so hard <3

I was roaming on my warrior today and just wrecking condi players. I wasn’t even playing well, I haven’t played my warrior in months so I had no muscle memory for the combos and cooldowns. But when you can rotate between a stupid amount of resistance, blocks, stuns, ridiculous regen, and cleanses through a 5 sec weapon swap and cleansing ire, you can afford to make plenty of mistakes and still win the fight.

But the moment you lower yourself to brain dead build to fight other brain dead build… it just shows how low the game has become. Sad panda is sad.

First off, can someone do the math on the insane amount of resistance? Because apparently you have an extra 100 % boon duration, I can’t even fathom it. Your idea to being good against condition damage is by being COMPLETELY immune to it. How do you fare against other direct damage classes? I assume you have insane might uptime, plus you probably have rousing resilience, so assuming this boon duration is possible you must be the biggest, baddest warrior around. With the meta being as it is today though, I dunno, it probably is possible and I kind of hate that it is and that the solution to being good against condition is being completely immune to it. Which does suggest people do sympathize against conditions, they’re just not being very vocal.

Statistics and traits go hand in hand, but you don’t need me to tell you that. You build based on what syngergizes best, according to stats, traits, and play style. I’m not saying that I’m going to let my play style hold me back, I’ll adapt, but at a rate I choose.

Before I forget to mention again, which I did in my last post, by mitigation I mean damage reduction, not invulnerability. As for the person who said I’m only talking about 1v1’s, look at the one person’s post mentioning him running havoc with his guild as all conditions, do you understand how cancerous that is? I appreciate him posting that and his brief mentioning of its effectiveness.

As for build diversity, in my experience for roaming, it’s either play the meta or gtfo. If anything this proposed idea based on mitigation will increase the variety because, in theory, should this be implemented more classes will play more hybrid to balance between the “constitution” stat and the toughness stat. That is very doable. Not saying everyone would do it, but as more players balance between constitution and toughness, there is more room for experimentation. Thus, increased diversity.

What confuses me is that everyone I ask or whenever I hear about conditions in game, people are always saying how overpowered or how tough it is to fight condition classes, but here, on the forums, I feel like everyone is defending conditions. Now, I understand that these things tend to be very hypocritical, I came in fully expecting that. For example, look at the WvW polls. Remember how everyone hated the desert map? Later, when Anet polled whether to bring it back, most people (I remember it was like 50 % to bring it back to 30 % to not ratio and 20 % for some sort of compromise? Feel free to correct me on that) voted to bring it back.

Another thing about build diversity, due to the fact that conditions are as prevalent as they are in roaming, it forces builds to adapt and play heavy cleanses and so forth, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it is a negative factor on diversity. However, in an ideal world no class would be countering any other, but alas, I digress.

PS: I don’t know either necro or ranger’s skill level, in my mind the necro would win, as I have no evidence as to the contrary I’m just gonna leave my opinion to N/A.

Serious.7083:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Have you tried a resistance build? I’ve been experimenting with one lately, and it’s kinda fun to ignore all conditions all the time.

~EW

Unfortunately not every class has that option.

To be honest I’m not sure if a balance is possible in this. it would be nice if it were more balanced but that would have knock on effects in PvE and sPvP.

No but this is a Warrior posting… Bit of Commanders gear and volla, 4 minutes of Resistance.

Xyppi.8061:

Another thing about build diversity, due to the fact that conditions are as prevalent as they are in roaming, it forces builds to adapt and play heavy cleanses and so forth, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it is a negative factor on diversity. However, in an ideal world no class would be countering any other, but alas, I digress.

Players are forced to run “power counters” just as much, if not even more and pretty much everybody does it without thinking about it.

Xyppi.8061:

PS: I don’t know either necro or ranger’s skill level, in my mind the necro would win, as I have no evidence as to the contrary I’m just gonna leave my opinion to N/A.

Necro beat ranger?
…..Okay this guy is definitely trolling us.

If a build is giving you trouble, ask about how to counter that build in either your class’s forum or in the forum for the class you are having issues with.

I think the maxim about playing the class to learn how to beat it is quite true. That and the old advice just to practice, practice, practice.

I like resistance uptime Warriors. I have a decent amount of boon steal that negates that. Over reliance on boons will do that. That’s why I would suggest doing a combination of resistance, traditional condi cleanse, and a trait like Cleansing Ire. Gives your build a diversity of options and builds synergy with other things you might be doing anyways. I’m currently working on a warrior build that uses signets and CI to provide those three. Still in “testing” and working on knowing how to play it better.

Jim Hunter I’m pretty sure you’re the one trolling me. I do quite enjoy how you try to belittle my ENTIRE thread by claiming such a thing. Also funny how you decide to say that over the most irellevent (in my opinion) part.

As for power counters yeah, but that’s a whole lot easier.

Sorry going to keep this one short as I have a lot to do tomorrow.

Tons of players can deal with conditions.. OP need to l2p I guess

Not all classes have boon steal, the ones that do tend to have lots though. I’m trying to keep away from the boon build discussion beside for the resistance to keep this thread on topic, just so that’s clear.

Like it has been said, it is very difficult to deal with certain condition builds, namely mesmer and thief. I’m not necessarily talking about their stealth, though that is a large component. Engineer, necromancer and ranger condition builds are a fair bit more difficult to play, that I will admit. Of course however you have to play to each classes strength, but if you say the whole problem with condition builds is stealth, I will return to my previous statement is the amount of damage that can be done. Even for burst thieves, they hit you a few times, run away, rinse and repeat. However with certain condition builds you land your combo and that person is dead unless he has a full cleanse skill or resistance.

I appreciate the gesture and I approve of the thought process you mentioned to be a better player, however, as many have said the classes are unbalanced. Instead of unjustly blaming myself (if I did I wouldn’t even be posting any of this) I acknowledge that a lot of the time there are just things that are too difficult for me, not everyone is a god at gaming. That being said, I’m not bad at the game, in fact I consider myself a good player, I’ve had to deal with this condition build onslaught for so long that sometimes I don’t even want to roam anymore. At that point I just stop playing, it’s frustrating. So instead of just complaining, I’ll do it in a constructive manner. I will again state my proposal for those who are thinking TL:DR.

I propose a form of damage mitigation for condition damage by implementing a completely new stat perhaps called constitution or by applying damage reduction to conditions using toughness but on andifferent ratio, but no one likes the idea of toughness mitigating conditions so I created a compromise. So, a new stat altogether that preferably scales with toughness but not with extra applied toughness, or just a flat new stat.

However by introducing a new stat it would take the place of other stats on gear. Ok, so I know that this would take a lot of work on the part of Anet, but, what if instead of a stat like healing power or whatever, what if it was like an armor stat, but you could change the % between armor from items, and constitution? Of course, a stat like toughness but for conditions should still be implemented.

For those worried about conditions no longer doing any damage because of this, well yes itvwould certainly do less, but even at 3k toughness, I still have a hard time against direct damage thieves. It won’t be that much different in terms of higher damaging condition builds as thieves with direct damage are.

As people have said, condition damage is about outlasting your opponent, but I don’t see that as true considering the amount of damage they can do. The same can be said about direct damage, sure, but the arguement here is that condition damage accomodates different play styles, I just don’t see that as true. Of course every class, every build, every specialization is different. Some are easier, some are harder, some take more skill, some less. This is a universal truth, however I’m not about to get philosophical on you. I understand some people will take offense to my statement of play styles between direct damage and condition damage, so please, since I do not actually play condition classes allow me to explain myself in way of responses.

Believe me, I’m not trying to be stubborn about this, I just genuinely believe this to be the correct course of action

PS: Please look at Yuffi’s post if you would like further details into what could possibly be implemented or perhaps give yourself ideas for a post on how this could better work. I would quote the mentioned post but I’ve never done it before and I’m worried about accidently deleting this post.

Problem with condition is that it:
Bypass one of the two defensive stat, toughness.
Bypass most of defensive skills, yes block and invul are defensible skill that it bypass.
Bypass defensive buffs
Does as much damage than power build.

All that while you have to really investe in a single stat, cond damage, what let you get 2 stats for defense and the condi time as bonus.

“but condi cleanse” it doesn’t help much when the condi guy WILL outlast you and can easily reaply another condition.
And i’m not even talking about how some classes have almost no viable condi clear.

It need to get it’s damage cut by a good % as a simplest way to fix it or increase the damage that power builds does, and the offensive stat not the defensive.

Right now there’s no reason to go most of the powerbuilds, let alone zerk stats. Why use a attack that’s mitigated by everything when you can go condi?

Repeating wrong arguments over and over again, doesn’t make them right …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Repeating wrong arguments over and over again, doesn’t make them right …

So why you keep using these arguments?

What did i said wrong?

UmbraNoctis.1907:

What did i said wrong?

I was specific about block and invul, neither block condi. All you know how to do is blab about reflect and that in fact gets the condition blocked, except when it isn’t a project, like half of the conditions in the game.

I say that because atm i’m playing condi thief and it’s almost sad how warriors try to use their invul against me while i just keep tossing conditions to him while he dies.

It doesn’t bypass invulnerable or block. If you block or are invulnerable when the person used the skill that applied the conditions then it won’t apply conditions. Exceptions are unblockable attacks, of which there are a few.

Resistance is a defensive buff for for conditions…so your argument is clearly misleading on that point.

And finally, condi cleanse won’t make you invincible—your goal is to equip enough clears, resistance, and other defensive moves that you live long enough to apply the damage to kill the other player. You might be surprised if you dodged the right attacks at how few condi’s are applied.

In addition to what saerni said, i want to mention that Endure Pain is not an invuln. It is an immunity to direct dmg (same for ranger’s Signet of Stone). That’s the reason, why it doesn’t do anything against condis (and CC and life steal dmg).

saerni.2584:

It doesn’t bypass invulnerable or block. If you block or are invulnerable when the person used the skill that applied the conditions then it won’t apply conditions. Exceptions are unblockable attacks, of which there are a few.

Resistance is a defensive buff for for conditions…so your argument is clearly misleading on that point.

And finally, condi cleanse won’t make you invincible—your goal is to equip enough clears, resistance, and other defensive moves that you live long enough to apply the damage to kill the other player. You might be surprised if you dodged the right attacks at how few condi’s are applied.

Resistance is a “buff” that only 2~3 classes have access to.(don’t dare to come with convert chill or thief skill)

“live long enough to apply the damage to kill the other player.”
Except like i said condi builds only need to use one stat in it, so they will outlast power build. PERIOD.

That’s exactly why everyone uses that, except in zergs where boonsharing is abused, but that’s another issue.

“just dodge” yeah same works for powerbuild. Point is: There’s WAY more ways to stop/reduce damage from powebuilds than there’s to condis, that’s exactly why you and i use condi build. Easier to get my goals, kill the enemy.

Now lets stop pretending that cond is fine the way it’s right now.

Resistance is only one of many options. Durability Runes exist, incidentally, as well.

And yeah, you need to live long enough to kill the other player. If you are built more glassy then you have a good shot at it. Even “tanky” stats will take a lot of damage from glass. And if you are bunker and they are bunker, but you didn’t bring condition clears and they are condi…good luck because that is the counter to your tank build.

Condition players can take Sinister stats to do tons of extra damage through crit/power. Also glassy and gets the full damage of the conditions. Bonus damage too if their opponent doesn’t run any clears. Condition players build tanky because they are usually going to be jumped by several people, and that gives them time to react. Reaction time is the more valuable asset than increased damage.

saerni.2584:

Resistance is only one of many options. Durability Runes exist, incidentally, as well.

And yeah, you need to live long enough to kill the other player. If you are built more glassy then you have a good shot at it. Even “tanky” stats will take a lot of damage from glass. And if you are bunker and they are bunker, but you didn’t bring condition clears and they are condi…good luck because that is the counter to your tank build.

Condition players can take Sinister stats to do tons of extra damage through crit/power. Also glassy and gets the full damage of the conditions. Bonus damage too if their opponent doesn’t run any clears. Condition players build tanky because they are usually going to be jumped by several people, and that gives them time to react. Reaction time is the more valuable asset than increased damage.

Stop. just stop. you are being ridiculous.
" resistance for 1 second. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)"
1 sec = ONE tick of condi.
And point is: condi players only need to have one stat. cond damage.
That’s why they, like YOU said, can use viper and sinister and still be effective.
That’s the whole problem of condition. Only power in a power build means you will be laughed at. Now condition builds can roll condi and whatever he wants, because there’s no good way to mitigate it, it only REALLY needs a single stat, while it completely bypass toughness.

Now i challenge you to build a character with only power, without precision/ferocity.

Or even better make a character with only precision without power. Try it then come back.

PS: lets not forget that when you block 1 sec of power and the hit is 6k you blocked 6k one tick of condition = ONE tick that generally is 1/5 of the players actual damage. so yeah great counter.

I have, it’s called a warrior.

saerni.2584:

I have, it’s called a warrior.

And use a daredevil P/D(condition) as your sign. Yeah sure…. whatever you say mate.

Condi builds benefit less from going full glass, so usually zerk > sinister/viper. Many (not all) condi builds need more defensive stats than power builds to be somewhat viable, because they lack (burst) dmg, and/or defensive stats and traits compared to power builds.

And i already played a full soldier ranger and while it wasn’t optimal of course, it wasn’t completely trash either. Kinda compareable to dire ranger.

And regarding blocks, you don’t block condition ticks, you block condition application, which means, the whole dmg of the blocked condi attack will be negated. It is exactly the same as blocking a power attack.

Btw, only 2 (mesmer/necro) and 1/2 (thief) out of 9 classes are better going condi, the others are superior with power builds in most cases.

Bursting people with power will always be better in group fights. If you are in a group/Zerg and die to condi you are just lazy and running a trash comp. There are plenty of ways to aoe cleanse.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Condi builds benefit less from going full glass, so usually zerk > sinister/viper. Many (not all) condi builds need more defensive stats than power builds to be somewhat viable, because they lack (burst) dmg, and/or defensive stats and traits compared to power builds.

And i already played a full soldier ranger and while it wasn’t optimal of course, it wasn’t completely trash either. Kinda compareable to dire ranger.

And regarding blocks, you don’t block condition ticks, you block condition application, which means, the whole dmg of the blocked condi attack will be negated. It is exactly the same as blocking a power attack.

Btw, only 2 (mesmer/necro) and 1/2 (thief) out of 9 classes are better going condi, the others are superior with power builds in most cases.

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

And you are really trying to say that soldier = dire? For real? maybe it’s because you are druid, and quite frankly druid and DH atm can’t be use as example of balance, but neither my warrior, thief, guard or engi was viable with soldier stats.
Now my thief and guard dire simply laugh at anything that’s powerbased.

And can’t burst? are you for real? my thief when i go FULL burst gets over 5k of poison in the enemy per tick, that + 1k of confusion and 1,5k of bleed means unless he clean he WILL die.

But again i don’t roll like that because the moment he cleans i will be in a tight spot.

“see cond….” the SAME happens with powerbuilds, if you go all in and get a invul you are dead. Difference being that with condi i don’t need to be all in while with power or you go all win or you will not kill the oponnent.

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Maybe it’s the enemy servers, but all “bunkers” druid build i’ve been playing against and with are druids with dire to get that stack of bleed rolling.

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Maybe it’s the enemy servers, but all “bunkers” druid build i’ve been playing against and with are druids with dire to get that stack of bleed rolling.

Do you happen to be playing in 2013?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Maybe it’s the enemy servers, but all “bunkers” druid build i’ve been playing against and with are druids with dire to get that stack of bleed rolling.

Do you happen to be playing in 2013?

No i’m in the boonshare abuse meta.

And i googled for Druid buils, went to metabattle and youtube. There’s a SINGLE build using soldier stuff that’s a shout trooper that is meant to boonshare.

So unless one single guy is making everyone cry with a shaddy build, you should pay more attention to the enemy. Because they are using or Zerk/Marauders or dire/viper(cond)

PS:

…
And you are really trying to say that soldier = dire? For real? maybe it’s because you are druid, and quite frankly druid and DH atm can’t be use as example of balance,…

I actually do play more than one class/build. P/D is a rarer weaponset that I play on my main, so I do advertise that as something I know particularly well.

Like I said, I have a warrior with tankier stats that I’m building at the moment. Gains crit chance from other sources than armor, so it lets me play around with the gear. I’m not running soldiers, rather it is a sentinel based warrior. It might not be “meta” but I never build with the meta in mind anyways.

Most power builds don’t run full soldier, because there is much better gear available.

And why does it matter, if its a druid or dh or not? I thought, no power build is viable?

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Maybe it’s the enemy servers, but all “bunkers” druid build i’ve been playing against and with are druids with dire to get that stack of bleed rolling.

Do you happen to be playing in 2013?

No i’m in the boonshare abuse meta.

And i googled for Druid buils, went to metabattle and youtube. There’s a SINGLE build using soldier stuff that’s a shout trooper that is meant to boonshare.

So unless one single guy is making everyone cry with a shaddy build, you should pay more attention to the enemy. Because they are using or Zerk/Marauders or dire/viper(cond)

Trust me, there is more than 1 person running that build. That is one of the most prevalent roaming builds at the moment. Along with durability rune warriors rocking about 3k armor on power builds, glassy hybrid mesmers, and perma dodge thieves (power and condi). The other builds you are likely to run into are scrappers and tempests who also both run bunkerish power builds and try to out sustain you because they no longer have decent spike damage.

Really the only players running full dire at the moment are thieves and old school PU mesmers, every other profession has stronger power builds.

Noting that a full dire thief has around 21k hp, so….

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Most power builds don’t run full soldier, because there is much better gear available.

And why does it matter, if its a druid or dh or not? I thought, no power build is viable?

Druids and DH are not exactly balanced atm.
Hard to use something that’s broken as a concept to say that another think is alright.
Quite frankly Druids and DH can go full healers and would still kill ppl, hell they can go full naked and i still believe they would still kill ppl.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Divinorium.8952:

At the moment ANY powerbuild that isn’t in the zerg boonsharing, that isn’t beserk or maruder aren’t viable. PERIOD.

Good to know, now go tell that to all the people complaining about bunker druids…

Maybe it’s the enemy servers, but all “bunkers” druid build i’ve been playing against and with are druids with dire to get that stack of bleed rolling.

Do you happen to be playing in 2013?

No i’m in the boonshare abuse meta.

And i googled for Druid buils, went to metabattle and youtube. There’s a SINGLE build using soldier stuff that’s a shout trooper that is meant to boonshare.

So unless one single guy is making everyone cry with a shaddy build, you should pay more attention to the enemy. Because they are using or Zerk/Marauders or dire/viper(cond)

Trust me, there is more than 1 person running that build. That is one of the most prevalent roaming builds at the moment. Along with durability rune warriors rocking about 3k armor on power builds, glassy hybrid mesmers, and perma dodge thieves (power and condi). The other builds you are likely to run into are scrappers and tempests who also both run bunkerish power builds and try to out sustain you because they no longer have decent spike damage.

Really the only players running full dire at the moment are thieves and old school PU mesmers, every other profession has stronger power builds.

yes said stats are : Marauder(power1, precis1, ferocity 0.5, vitality 0.5)
Commander(Power1,precis 1, tough 0.5, conc 0.5)
and viper(Power 1, cond damage1, prec 0.5, exp 0.5)

With viper being a TRUE glass cannon cond oriented set.

“but in the zerg they use X” in the zerg they stack boon and share. The 25stack of might and all the others buff make up for the lack of damage. But again that’s a problem of the boonshare meta.

Granted, i really am against not having/high limit to the number of ppl that can activate a single field for combo, what makes one single light combo a infinite cleasing area.

They need to limit the number of combofield interactions for the same number of Aoe interaction, but that’s a discussion to another topic.