Guild Wars 2

Conditions need to be affected by toughness, like standard/power damage. Conditions are out of control, and some even tick for ludicrous amounts of damage. The fact that condition damage and duration can be stacked to absurd amounts — and they’re unmitigated — is unbalanced. Add to this the fact that with the incredible number of conditions that can be stacked on players, they can’t be cleansed effectively or dodged, and any abilities that remove them are on fairly long cooldowns relative to their damage output and the frequency they can be applied.

Fix them, please. They should be reduced by toughness, and the stacked durations should have a cap. For instance, no CC should be allowed to persist beyond 4 seconds, and damage conditions should have a cap based on their potential output.

Cheers

disagree.

Conditions can be cleansed, white damage can be mitigated by toughness. If conditions were mitigated by toughness then the cleanses would need to be adjusted to not wipe out a full 25 stack of bleeds or vulns or confusions for balance.

You are right that condition damage can “condition damage and duration can be stacked to absurd amounts” but duration is again entirely mitigated by cleanses wiping out full stacks. The key thing is if a Damage Over Time power is wiped out when the stacks are high without them sitting for much TIME, then you ruined the enemies rotation and spike damage.

^^^this was for roaming and dueling.

For zerging, condition duration is almost meaningless considering all the random cleanses flying, and in organized groups not so random.

You are correct that no single cc should have more than a few seconds of duration. I do not think any single one does TBH in GW2. Not sure about that. But multiple cc in WvW is a result of not having one of those common timers where you are immune to CC in other mmo’s.

I am glad for that TBH. I think in large scale combat that would be a mechanic that would break the game though. I like the thought that an organized group can chain cc a bunch of bad players with no real stability of stun breaks on their button bar. Thats what the baddies have sacrificed for those big deeps and tons of huge numbers on their screen.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Hoelbrak

Up to 65% permanent reduction to condition effectiveness, on top of the removal/converting options available.

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

The problem I see is that yeah, while condi cleanses are flying all the time and wiping out 25 stacks of this and that, the fact is is that people have to center their builds around a lot of cleanses. If I didn’t need to run PoV on my guard (granted, many people would say I don’t have to) I would put a ton more into precision. And while runes and such are great and all, that is more pigeonholing into being a cleansing bot.

It just seems silly to me that their is no inherent counter to conditions beside more health. It’d be nice to have the massive health pools of warriors and necros, but alas many professions do not have such luxury.

That said, I don’t really expect a change. The condition meta is what’s happening now and we just have to deal with it.

But kitten perma-immobilize.

clint.5681:

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

This post does not recognize how the mechanics work. If you max stacked 100% condition duration and applied a base 5 second bleed which with 100% duration, which takes heavy stacking, is 10 seconds. Take -60% condition duration and you get 4 second bleeds.

-condi duration > +condi duration.

eithinan.9841:

clint.5681:

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

This post does not recognize how the mechanics work. If you max stacked 100% condition duration and applied a base 5 second bleed which with 100% duration, which takes heavy stacking, is 10 seconds. Take -60% condition duration and you get 4 second bleeds.

-condi duration > +condi duration.

While that’s correct math wise, I think people have proven that, in this game at least, 40% inc and a 40% dec cancel each other out.

Problem is that low hp char without condition removal die fast, but some bunkker warrior or guardian doesn’t care kitten about con dmg. It’s pointless even try to kill them. Con dmg is very weak against good blobs too. Usually you can’t even find target worth using epidemic because there is just stupid amount of condition removal.

bradderzh.2378:

eithinan.9841:

clint.5681:

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

This post does not recognize how the mechanics work. If you max stacked 100% condition duration and applied a base 5 second bleed which with 100% duration, which takes heavy stacking, is 10 seconds. Take -60% condition duration and you get 4 second bleeds.

-condi duration > +condi duration.

While that’s correct math wise, I think people have proven that, in this game at least, 40% inc and a 40% dec cancel each other out.

nope.

It doesn’t cancel out. It works exactly as I described. There are a few builds that have upwards of -90% duration and it is a HARD counter for any condition damage build. I believe there is an ele build and a warrior build for that.

eithinan.9841:

bradderzh.2378:

eithinan.9841:

clint.5681:

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

This post does not recognize how the mechanics work. If you max stacked 100% condition duration and applied a base 5 second bleed which with 100% duration, which takes heavy stacking, is 10 seconds. Take -60% condition duration and you get 4 second bleeds.

-condi duration > +condi duration.

While that’s correct math wise, I think people have proven that, in this game at least, 40% inc and a 40% dec cancel each other out.

nope.

It doesn’t cancel out. It works exactly as I described. There are a few builds that have upwards of -90% duration and it is a HARD counter for any condition damage build. I believe there is an ele build and a warrior build for that.

You are correct, but that is probably all those builds do. I imagine they put out crap for damage. Well, maybe not for warrior, but that’s because they can do whatever the hell they want and still have ok damage.

Tibstrike.2974:

eithinan.9841:

bradderzh.2378:

eithinan.9841:

clint.5681:

And then you consider condition duration food/traits/gear and your condition reduction food is usless.

This post does not recognize how the mechanics work. If you max stacked 100% condition duration and applied a base 5 second bleed which with 100% duration, which takes heavy stacking, is 10 seconds. Take -60% condition duration and you get 4 second bleeds.

-condi duration > +condi duration.

While that’s correct math wise, I think people have proven that, in this game at least, 40% inc and a 40% dec cancel each other out.

nope.

It doesn’t cancel out. It works exactly as I described. There are a few builds that have upwards of -90% duration and it is a HARD counter for any condition damage build. I believe there is an ele build and a warrior build for that.

You are correct, but that is probably all those builds do. I imagine they put out crap for damage. Well, maybe not for warrior, but that’s because they can do whatever the hell they want and still have ok damage.

Pretty much.
The point of this thread though is how condition damage and duration is overpowered. I disagree with this assessment though for the reasons I posted and tools available. If a player chooses not to use powers or traits that are for survival and go only for BIG DEEPS, they are bad. This seems to be the main issue with the OP. He wants Anet to nerf all conditions because of his badness.

I also wanted to point out that to make an informed argument about these things you need to discuss it from a place of knowledge not assumption. So If one does not know how the mechanics work maybe they should experiment for themselves before posting about a topic they are woefully uninformed on.

eithinan.9841:

disagree.

Conditions can be cleansed, white damage can be mitigated by toughness. If conditions were mitigated by toughness then the cleanses would need to be adjusted to not wipe out a full 25 stack of bleeds or vulns or confusions for balance.

You are right that condition damage can “condition damage and duration can be stacked to absurd amounts” but duration is again entirely mitigated by cleanses wiping out full stacks. The key thing is if a Damage Over Time power is wiped out when the stacks are high without them sitting for much TIME, then you ruined the enemies rotation and spike damage.

^^^this was for roaming and dueling.

For zerging, condition duration is almost meaningless considering all the random cleanses flying, and in organized groups not so random.

You are correct that no single cc should have more than a few seconds of duration. I do not think any single one does TBH in GW2. Not sure about that. But multiple cc in WvW is a result of not having one of those common timers where you are immune to CC in other mmo’s.

I am glad for that TBH. I think in large scale combat that would be a mechanic that would break the game though. I like the thought that an organized group can chain cc a bunch of bad players with no real stability of stun breaks on their button bar. Thats what the baddies have sacrificed for those big deeps and tons of huge numbers on their screen.

I agree 100%

If condis are mitigated by toughness, clensing needs to be removed or drastically changed.

Also if it was affected by toughness no condi build would ever be able to kill condi reduction tank warriors, ever.

If toughness diminish condi damage then it will destroy the purpose of having condi in the game in the first place and new meta will be Toughness stacking, since it will be most effective defensive stat period.

Adding to everything what was already said in terms of how to fight against condi, try to increase you’re healing maybe.

Now if we are talking about DOTs having the chance to crit based off precision then we may be open to more discussion on this topic.

Why not just have vitality adjust condition damage, like how toughness effects direct damage? More vitality = less condition damage. No need to carry cleanses when you can tank the conditions.

eithinan.9841:

nope.

It doesn’t cancel out. It works exactly as I described. There are a few builds that have upwards of -90% duration and it is a HARD counter for any condition damage build. I believe there is an ele build and a warrior build for that.

Are you sure? Did you run tests? Reason I say is because I made the exact same point as you and someone provided me with this answer in this thread.

bradderzh.2378:

eithinan.9841:

nope.

It doesn’t cancel out. It works exactly as I described. There are a few builds that have upwards of -90% duration and it is a HARD counter for any condition damage build. I believe there is an ele build and a warrior build for that.

Are you sure? Did you run tests? Reason I say is because I made the exact same point as you and someone provided me with this answer in this thread.

as a matter of fact I did test it.

Conditions are fine. There are two types of damage in this game: direct dps and conditions. They work in different ways and a balanced build needs to defend against both of them. You shouldn’t be able to mitigate both types through a single method. You’re welcome to fine tune your build to deal lots of damage and take lots of direct dps in return, but don’t complain when someone who threw the rock to your scissors kicks your kitten with condition dmg.

And yet the biggest problem builds, offenders of balance, are all direct-damage. All the Zerg on Zerg action is all about, direct-damage.

But yah, sure, keep telling yourself that its conditions that are a problem. And i also have to applaud how your “solution” is basicly a broadstroke nerf to all condition builds, ever. Including all the conditions builds that SUCK.

Here’s my solution for Warriors one-shotting people with kill shot, and Thieves doing crazy backstabs every few seconds. We nerf all direct-damage by 50%, all of it. For all professions, and all builds.