Guild Wars 2

A while back Anet reduced confusion damage in sPvP by 50 percent because it is simply overpowered when used against other players. I see more and more mesmers spamming confusion in WvW that causes 1-2k damage per ability use. This is simply too much damage for a condition that can trigger 3-4 times per second. They should add the 50% reduction to WvW.

Only 1-2K? Try over 3K with 8 stacks. And it triggers off of completely kitten things. I take confusion damage when I dodge roll since I have a trait that heals on dodge. I take confusion damage while channeling invulnerability. I take confusion damage channeling block. Sometimes I take confusion damage when I do nothing at all.

It needs a total redesign from the ground up.

Oozo.7856:

Only 1-2K? Try over 3K with 8 stacks.

I’m usually able to remove some stacks before I get that high as a guardian, but yeah it can get pretty absurd if you are out of removals.

Stability needs nerf too.

Here is my suggestion. Reduce it’s damage to a reasonable level in WvW. Make it such that it only triggers when offensive abilities are used.

If I have a confusion mesmer on me plus one more you have to give me the ability to use defensive abilities without killing myself. And for the people who will inevitably say “use condition removal” – confusion can reapplied much faster than it can be removed.

but thats a condition build/ confusion mes other mes don’t do much with condition and your punish them too like wth mate

Junkpile.7439:

Stability needs nerf too.

Not really. You can still cripple, chill and immobilize someone with stability. It is good to provide away to avoid being stunlocked.

fishergrip.4082:

Oozo.7856:

Only 1-2K? Try over 3K with 8 stacks.

I’m usually able to remove some stacks before I get that high as a guardian, but yeah it can get pretty absurd if you are out of removals.

Want to see a clip where I remove 4 stacks and then immediately have 6 reapplied?

lukeire.3679:

but thats a condition build/ confusion mes other mes don’t do much with condition and your punish them too like wth mate

Even someone with no condition damage can do 500-1k damage per ability use with a few stacks of confuse. I’m not sure why they decided to make confusion stack in intensity instead of duration. Think of how op it would be if retaliation stacked in intensity. Confusion is similar.

lukeire.3679:

but thats a condition build/ confusion mes other mes don’t do much with condition and your punish them too like wth mate

Is that a joke? Pretty sure it was a joke. Good one.

I will never understand why arenanet separates wvwvw from spvp, confusion needs to be nerfed in wvwvw but not 60% like in spvp, confusion in spvp is pretty weak in my opinion. A 40% nerf should be fine (in both spvp and wvwvw, so buff and nerf respectively)

Confusion build is only strong 1v1, but overall in a group fight vs group fight it’s decent. Too many healing spams/condition removals. I run an almost full prec/tough/condi gear mesmer, and i only pull up around 2300toughness. i still feel pretty glassy, my necro has more toughness wearing carrion armor and prec/tough/cond accessories and backpack.

fishergrip.4082:

A while back Anet reduced confusion damage in sPvP by 50 percent because it is simply overpowered when used against other players. I see more and more mesmers spamming confusion in WvW that causes 1-2k damage per ability use. This is simply too much damage for a condition that can trigger 3-4 times per second. They should add the 50% reduction to WvW.

Are you saying yo cant win v a mesmer ?

Mesmer’s die to easy and so need something to help them. I only seen a few good mesmer that can take on a lot of players and win.

If you take that away from a mesmer what can they give them to help them, (thinking a long the lines of take and give to belance them) ?

Confusion isn’t THAT bad. Yeah, it’s insanely annoying to deal with, but assuming you have good awareness, you’ll know when you have in excess of three stacks of it on you. Trust me, maintaining anything above 6~ stacks isn’t an easy task for a Mesmer, and they’ll be sacrificing a lot of their power in order to do it.

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

Talon Silverhawk.5964:

fishergrip.4082:

A while back Anet reduced confusion damage in sPvP by 50 percent because it is simply overpowered when used against other players. I see more and more mesmers spamming confusion in WvW that causes 1-2k damage per ability use. This is simply too much damage for a condition that can trigger 3-4 times per second. They should add the 50% reduction to WvW.

Are you saying yo cant win v a mesmer ?

Mesmer’s die to easy and so need something to help them. I only seen a few good mesmer that can take on a lot of players and win.

If you take that away from a mesmer what can they give them to help them, (thinking a long the lines of take and give to belance them) ?

people don’t understand balance, yes it can be overpowered, but you have to know when to spam skills, people just like to spam skills left and right, or cure conditions with too little stacks. There’s way too many things that’s still bugged with the mesmer skill traits.

People still haven’t gotten to the point where they exploit high confusion stacks with epidemic necros. Just wait.

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Don’t use CC. Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

Oozo.7856:

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

Well, I generally don’t engage in battles when it’s me vs two other people, especially when it’s a Mesmer and Thief, haha.

Oozo.7856:

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Don’t use CC. Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

And here you go:

Kagato.4061:

Oozo.7856:

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

Well, I generally don’t engage in battles when it’s me vs two other people, especially when it’s a Mesmer and Thief, haha.

So, it’s not just as simple as “don’t attack” then. Got it.

Sure, nerf confusion. Also nerf class cannon thieves. Don’t forget eles, warriors, guardians, necros, engineers, rangers and of course mesmers in general. Oh, and especially nerf siege! Siege too powerful! It hurts!!!11!!oneleven!!!

-_-

Seriously. Confusion only lasts for 3 seconds. When I’m up against multiple people, they sometimes don’t even care about it. When it’s 1vs1, it sometimes helps and sometimes it doesn’t. Also, confusion is actually the only way for me as a condition mesmer to actually have a chance to at least get A FEW badges in WvW (the only other way is doing the jumping puzzle). Confusion in WvW overpowered? Lol. Never.

Nerf stuns. They prevent me from mindlessly spamming skills too. Oh, and fears. Those too. Oh, and knockbacks! Gotta get rid of knockbacks.

Confusion is a control tool – works amazing when faced with a player who can’t figure out not to buttonspam, not so well on a decent player who recognizes what’s going on. Situational awareness is your friend – you’ll do much better if you pay attention. Sorry that faceroll play isn’t working out for you.

As a Mesmer I sometimes run a glamour confusion build (AoE confusion). I can reliably stack 4-6 stacks on a Zerg every 40 seconds or so. Yes glamour cooldowns are that long.
What I find is that inexperienced players blow themselves up, while experienced players either remove conditions or disengage for the whole 5 seconds that confusion lasts.

AoE confusion is good at Zerg busting, and downing the new kids in wvw.

Actually, it kind of reminds me of when I would pin my younger brother down and make him hit himself with his fist. “Stop hitting yourself!”, lol.

Not doing anything for 5 seconds is a death sentence in a 1v1 or 2v2. Of course things are more balanced in a (heh) zerg but that is not what is being discussed here.

Oozo.7856:

People still haven’t gotten to the point where they exploit high confusion stacks with epidemic necros. Just wait.

We used to run an epidemic group, but our necro is a flop

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FDVn1WDP_nug

Oozo.7856:

Not doing anything for 5 seconds is a death sentence in a 1v1 or 2v2. Of course things are more balanced in a (heh) zerg but that is not what is being discussed here.

The biggest damage a condition mesmer can do is with confusion, so you’ll likely not die in those 5 seconds (less, if you use a condition remove) of doing nothing. Thieves can burst you with 13k or more damage in a few seconds and it actually needs you to react fast and also time your dodge to avoid it. Confusion… just wait a brief moment before you attack again. Without confusion, condition mesmer would be nearly useless in WvW (in terms of being able to kill someone, that is).

Learn to pay attention to your conditions and start running with condition removal.

Don’t complain about conditions you’re just too lazy to deal with.

Yeah, confusion is great, but if you mitigate the impact of it you’ve made the Mesmer (Who is completely built around confusion) useless until their CDs pop. Cry of Frustration is the greatest source of confusion stacking and it’s got a 30s CD and only 3s stacks of Confusion.

Oozo.7856:

Kagato.4061:

I’ll give you guys all a helpful tip:

If you have a crap ton of confusion stacked on you, don’t attack.

And don’t defend either. Don’t heal, don’t dodge roll (if you have a trait on dodge). Don’t use CC. Just don’t do anything.

How does that work out for you when you have a thief on you as well?

Also, not attacking or using skills is against the “action combat” that Anet is rightfully proud of. Even support classes have to be offensive.

Thrumdi.9216:

Also, not attacking or using skills is against the “action combat” that Anet is rightfully proud of. Even support classes have to be offensive.

“Action combat” =\= “faceroll buttonspam” tho.

You still have to manage your skills, CDs, etc. By your logic, all control abilities should be removed. Don’t think that’s what’s intended at all.

Hm, maybe you should carry some condition removal in the zerg and pay attention to something besides your 1 button. Confusion punishes bads for being bad. Cleanse or fall.

oh let me guess, a thief is mad that he cant spam 1 1 1 1 1. lol
Other than that, oh well we are only dangerous if we all group up! XD
Mesmers dont really have a lot of AOE, so confusion is a pretty though build to pull off.

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP? Let’s assume that they felt it was OP. You do all realize that confusion does a crapton more damage in WvW than sPvP, right?

Do 5v5s or less ever happen in WvW? Yes, they do. Doesn’t this automatically mean that confusion mesmers are OP in 5v5s or less in WvW by Anet’s own standard?

The skillbar is set higher in WvW than sPvP in many instances, which seems backwards to me. For example, you are punished harder by thief damage if you don’t avoid it in WvW. You are punished harder by confusion damage in WvW if you don’t avoid it. There are other examples like this since the rules for WvW and sPvP abilities are different.

Confusion builds are a hard counter to bunker ele’s by the way. Less/More depending on how the ele is traited specifically. I can generally wreck most 80 d/d’s with my uplevelled mesmer, heh.

Oozo.7856:

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP?

I think Anet nerfed Confusion for sPvP because sPvP is balanced around 5v5 matches.
WvW is balanced around zergs.

You said yourself the complaint isn’t for zergs.

covenn.7165:

Confusion builds are a hard counter to bunker ele’s by the way. Less/More depending on how the ele is traited specifically. I can generally wreck most 80 d/d’s with my uplevelled mesmer, heh.

But… But… Everyone always tells me that putting conds on a d/d ele is completely useless. That it never, ever, ever works and that every single condition applied is removed immediately and that d/d eles remove a condition with every step they take. Everyone tells me that they dont have any cooldowns on their cleansing abilities either, allowing them to remove conditions every single second for eternity (and beyond!).

:D

On that note, confusion seems to be fine on any class I have played. It can make things.. confusing.. for a bit, but it runs out pretty quickly. I solely save my cond removals on classes for things like confusion or if there is just every condition in the game on me.

On the note of this thread, may I also say that feedback from mesmers is equally OP. The damage it does is relentless. Why should I have to move outside of the bubble to attack? This was advertised as an ACTION oriented game! That makes me stop pressing 111 and press A, thus stopping my action!

Its a total bait and switch, I tells ya.

I have two words, my friends: PAIN INVERTER

Oozo.7856:

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP? Let’s assume that they felt it was OP. You do all realize that confusion does a crapton more damage in WvW than sPvP, right?

Do 5v5s or less ever happen in WvW? Yes, they do. Doesn’t this automatically mean that confusion mesmers are OP in 5v5s or less in WvW by Anet’s own standard?

The skillbar is set higher in WvW than sPvP in many instances, which seems backwards to me. For example, you are punished harder by thief damage if you don’t avoid it in WvW. You are punished harder by confusion damage in WvW if you don’t avoid it. There are other examples like this since the rules for WvW and sPvP abilities are different.

If that is your justification why are you not also championing for the save changes to Thief and Guardian that are in sPvP and not in WvW?

Eh, I really do not mind confusion. It is a nice control condition (albeit it can be a mean one if you blew all your removals or are in a 1v1, or 2v2).

Although it is funny when you are fighting a glass BS thief in WvW, cast confusion on them, then wait for them to come out of stealth dead. (unless they were a smart thief and did not just spam away, or had the trait that removes conditions ever few seconds in stealth)

Little side note on mention of the Epi Necro. I love that kind of necromancer, we run a Corrupt Epi BiP Necro with a heavy confusion condition mesmer to really mess with zergs. Funny how many do not run condition removal, or notice their health decreasing rapidly until it’s too late. Oh well, zerg mentality for you.

Condition effecting things like swapping attunements and not swapping weapons is something they should look at changing at the very least. (In terms of making it not effect swapping attunements)

stereoblind.4736:

I have two words, my friends: PAIN INVERTER

Silence!!

you’ll not drag me into this

Oozo.7856:

Again, the complaint isn’t for zergs it’s for less than 5v5s. Why do you think Anet nerfed confusion damage in sPvP? Let’s assume that they felt it was OP. You do all realize that confusion does a crapton more damage in WvW than sPvP, right?

Do 5v5s or less ever happen in WvW? Yes, they do. Doesn’t this automatically mean that confusion mesmers are OP in 5v5s or less in WvW by Anet’s own standard?

The skillbar is set higher in WvW than sPvP in many instances, which seems backwards to me. For example, you are punished harder by thief damage if you don’t avoid it in WvW. You are punished harder by confusion damage in WvW if you don’t avoid it. There are other examples like this since the rules for WvW and sPvP abilities are different.

I imagine they nerfed it in SPvP because of the Stat Cap you basically have in SPvP currently, It’s very easy to have a large amount of Confusion damage in both settings, but in one setting my HP is artificially lower then the other.

Tuluum.9638:

covenn.7165:

Confusion builds are a hard counter to bunker ele’s by the way. Less/More depending on how the ele is traited specifically. I can generally wreck most 80 d/d’s with my uplevelled mesmer, heh.

But… But… Everyone always tells me that putting conds on a d/d ele is completely useless. That it never, ever, ever works and that every single condition applied is removed immediately and that d/d eles remove a condition with every step they take. Everyone tells me that they dont have any cooldowns on their cleansing abilities either, allowing them to remove conditions every single second for eternity (and beyond!).

:D

On that note, confusion seems to be fine on any class I have played. It can make things.. confusing.. for a bit, but it runs out pretty quickly. I solely save my cond removals on classes for things like confusion or if there is just every condition in the game on me.

On the note of this thread, may I also say that feedback from mesmers is equally OP. The damage it does is relentless. Why should I have to move outside of the bubble to attack? This was advertised as an ACTION oriented game! That makes me stop pressing 111 and press A, thus stopping my action!

Its a total bait and switch, I tells ya.

Applying one type of condition to an ele is useless, That’s why a Bleed Warrior wouldn’t do squat vs an ele.

As a Ranger though, I can apply like 5 or 6 of them fairly quickly, and fairly often. I also can heal almost just as good as an ele, and have fairly good burst with my pet.

That’s why I don’t have a whole lot of trouble with them currently…I mean..if they decide to run, Nothing I can do to stop them… but if they stay…

nerfing confusion will probably sucks for engineers, since you will be nerfing one of their skill also.

Personally I think they should increase the time it is applied for but reduce the damage. This way you have a chance to adapt to the condition and/or remove it. When I roll necro I find condition removal for it isn’t so great because it only lasts a short time. But Anet likes easy mode and ground casting shouldn’t be instant either.

Xsorus.2507:

Applying one type of condition to an ele is useless, That’s why a Bleed Warrior wouldn’t do squat vs an ele.

As a Ranger though, I can apply like 5 or 6 of them fairly quickly, and fairly often. I also can heal almost just as good as an ele, and have fairly good burst with my pet.

That’s why I don’t have a whole lot of trouble with them currently…I mean..if they decide to run, Nothing I can do to stop them… but if they stay…

I apologize for not making it more clear that I was being sarcastic.

Applying a single condition to any class is next to useless, unless you are able to repeatedly apply it with no cooldown (cond on crit traits with high crit rate, etc.). The only time it will be of any use is if the person isnt prepared for it at all, and have nothing that will remove conditions. Or if the removal is on cooldown.

I have always found rangers to be tough opponents if played right, and pretty darn weak if not. Just like every other class. The only one I dont feel that applies to is the thief. The amount of skill it actually takes to succeed is significantly lower than most other classes. Which is why I have essentially shelved my lvl 80 thief in full exos. May even delete him!

Eh, starting to go off topic :P

Can’t help but think most of the people in this thread haven’t seen what happens to a zerg when you get a couple confusion mesmers and a necro together.

3k? can get close to 5k on my eng…

dreztina.4820:

Can’t help but think most of the people in this thread haven’t seen what happens to a zerg when you get a couple confusion mesmers and a necro together.

There is a good chance most have not. I dont think it is, as yet, a widely employed strategy.

I have used it, as well as have had it used against me though. The first time it was used against me and the group I was with, it was pure, unadulterated destruction.

Thing is about losing though, is it gives a clear objective of areas that need to improve.

The next time we ran into it, just laid down a bali or two depending on group size. Which is another thing you dont see much of (using siege in the open battlefield).

I suspect both will become more prevalent as the game goes on.

Na, confusion should not be nerfed. As annoying as confusion may be, mesmers are usually targets and that balances it out.