Guild Wars 2

Ok so im sick of this, confusion needs to be changed so that condition removal targets it after bleeding. Unless Anets planned counter to it is sit there like an idiot and do nothing/have 3 remove all conditions. You can get 12+ stacks against a mesmer pretty easily, you want to leave them doin high dmg, ok. But it needs to be prioritized for us when we try to remove it.

God knows when i get 12 stacks of confusion, I Want to remove weakness

In its current implementation confusion is very weak in general PvE and very strong in wvw. In sPvp the damage is actually reduced by 50% and maybe Anet will look at maybe separately balancing skills between wvw and PvE too.

IMO Confusion needs to be buffed, it can possibly do nothing if the enemy stops attacking and runs/dodges away.

ps nerf chill

OP raises as interesting point. Would be cool if you could actually designate which conditions take priority when removed.

I don’t understand why confusion has been allowed to go on as it is for so long. Clearly ignorance on the part of the devs.

Wriggle.8057:

IMO Confusion needs to be buffed, it can possibly do nothing if the enemy stops attacking and runs/dodges away.

ps nerf chill

ok , i will not use my skills in 50 vs 50 , i will just run and dodge
WvWvW nowdays is all about skill spam in zerg vs zerg,
Confusion don’t allow you to use skills

Confusion is Absolutely Fabulous.

My favorite part about confusion is when you cant get your character to stop effing attacking.

wish.3102:

My favorite part about confusion is when you cant get your character to stop effing attacking.

yeah if I click on the ground and no longer have anyone targeted I shouldn’t keep auto attacking. But thats more about this games poor targeting options. I have no issues with confusion.

ARM.3912:

I don’t understand why confusion has been allowed to go on as it is for so long. Clearly ignorance on the part of the devs.

Because adding a PvP “fix” to it will break a lot more than it will fix. I’m sure they know that it is a bit over the top right now in WvW, but they don’t want to go implementing a hot fix because of people who cry and end up making things worse. WoW anyone?

It doesn’t need to be changed. If I’m speced as a confusion Mesmer, and you don’t have sufficient condition removal, then you should pay the price. Yes confusion is strong, but Mesmers can only really reliably apply confusion, almost all other conditions are random. On the other hand, if you simply ignore the conditions being applied to you, you deserve to die.

Confusion duration caps at 10 seconds, and that’s only if the mesmer builds for that much. Condition duration reduction food is just one of many options you could utilise. CD removals, or just not attacking. Hell, build for more HP’s and you wont have as much trouble.

Your main O kitten ue is condition removal priority. I wonder about this every day (as well as boon stealing). Do we have anything official which states what it is?

Confusion is hardly OP, nor are Mesmers stealth and confusion stacking ability any more “infinite” than any other classes anything.

If it isn’t OP please explain why Anet reduced the damage of it in SPVP?

I’m a necro though with a staff so I dont’ really have problems with giving back your confusion to you. I just feel sorry for the other classes.

fenim.2395:

If it isn’t OP please explain why Anet reduced the damage of it in SPVP?

I’m a necro though with a staff so I dont’ really have problems with giving back your confusion to you. I just feel sorry for the other classes.

People always make this mistake. It was NEVER reduced in sPvP. sPvP is the original state of confusion. It was BUFFED in PvE and as a counter product, WvW as well because it was utterly useless against mobs.

Confusion is fine, you just have to practice more that’s all, it’s easy to deal with. I have a Mesmer, used to run confusion staff/scepter+focus build, but now staff/sword+focus hybrid shatter.

Confusion doesn’t have any direct impact on my current build of my mesmer. Just saying that before I get accused of protecting my build. Anyway, people complain about many things. Confusion is not that hard to deal with. I can handle confusion mesmers easily with my Guardian because I can outheal their confusion, #3 scepter skill is stupidly easy to dodge, as well as their confusion shatters. With my guardian’s dual sigil of energy, plus a vigor trait, I’m literally a dodging machine with tons of healing and 100% up on retal. So this means, that confusion you’re afraid of, won’t even dent me, and even if I make a mistake and it does eat a chunk of my HP, my HP goes right back up in a single dodge or two, while his H kitten lowly depleting on constant rate and last time I checked mesmer heals are on a 15-20 second interval. Confusion is not OP, I laugh at confusion when I’m on my guardian. Playing smart help a lot…which means not running through the bubbles and picking your shots…mesmers have little to no CC…that means you are free to create distance and not be mesmerized by their multitude of clones and combos Stop complaining…and practice. Stop asking the game to adjust to your learning curve, as I’ve been owned a lot of times when my mesmer was still confusion, so there are a LOT of players who knows how to deal with it. Peace.

Most people here don’t even know how to turn auto-attack off apparently, and we’re supposed to nerf confusion for the likes of them? LOL l2p

Bananasmile.4126:

With my guardian’s dual sigil of energy, plus a vigor trait, I’m literally a dodging machine with tons of healing and 100% up on retal. So this means, that confusion you’re afraid of, won’t even dent me, and even if I make a mistake and it does eat a chunk of my HP, my HP goes right back up in a single dodge or two,

I play both a mesmer and a guard, and if you actually did use this tactic on you guard you would die. Currently confusion hits if you dodge, if you have any on dodge traits. And there is no way your dodge heal will out heal a tic of confusion unless you have less then 3-5 stacks (depending on your healing power, since each stack hits for about 400-420 damage); so if you had low HP and dodged you would either really hurt yourself or kill yourself.

Confusion hitting classes with on dodge traits is the thing I support being changed. Confusion should only hit if you hit an ability, it shouldn’t also lock you out of dodging.

its time to QQ about mesmers now, dont worry about thieves xD. yes A-net needs to nerf confusion. 6- stack of confusion hurts my thief a lot even though i dont attack anything. Nerf Mesmers! xD

Actually, confusion is one of most effective mesmer’s weapon. If ANet will nerf confusion, mesmers will have no chanses against d/d eles, thieves. If you can’t learn you have to stop attacking if you’ve got 12 stacks of confusion, it’s your problem.

they need to buff retribution , then can be on par with confusion

Considering that confusion damage can be easily almost completely avoided, has a fairly short duration, moderate to long CD, and must be planned to stack I see no issues with it.

Essentially if a mesmer stacks that much confusion on you another build may have outright killed you or done heavy damage to you.

CrassBippy.4619:

Ok so im sick of this, confusion needs to be changed so that condition removal targets it after bleeding. Unless Anets planned counter to it is sit there like an idiot and do nothing/have 3 remove all conditions. You can get 12+ stacks against a mesmer pretty easily, you want to leave them doin high dmg, ok. But it needs to be prioritized for us when we try to remove it.

God knows when i get 12 stacks of confusion, I Want to remove weakness

Hahaha I’ve been hit with 15+stacks before and all I could do was use my heal and walk away lol. They should change it so it stacks in duration instead of intensity, that’s the real problem.AoE classes suffer from confusion more than others imo too, I know when I run D/D on my ele it seems like it ticks far too often since its supposed to activate on skill use, but it seems to tick for each time you hit something, which makes the AoEs kick your butt big time.

Lol not sure if some of you realise.. Confusion hits you for ANY action – dodging, casting a buff/heal on yourself, anything – the condition removal that gets rid of it will not hit you, because it does the damage after the effect of the ability cast. So if you are hit with 10+ stacks of confusion, you’d better hope your first cond. removal ability stops the confusion, or say goodbye to a few thousand hp. I don’t encounter many confusion mesmers, but they can be pretty annoying.

Also, why the hate on mesmers only? Engineers can stack confusion pretty well too.

Dodges only proc confusion if an action occurs on the dodge aka dodge heal, damage, caltrops, etc.

I do think it is really stupid that I run the most condition removal possible for a warrior and the conditions I need removed the most seem to be the ones that always persist. Would be cool if you could “target” a condition on your bar to be prioritized or have a check box for condition priority somewhere. There are only what? Nine conditions? Really aggravating when I can’t get rid of what is killing me with condition removals…

jamesigall.5938:

Lol not sure if some of you realise.. Confusion hits you for ANY action – dodging, casting a buff/heal on yourself, anything – the condition removal that gets rid of it will not hit you, because it does the damage after the effect of the ability cast. So if you are hit with 10+ stacks of confusion, you’d better hope your first cond. removal ability stops the confusion, or say goodbye to a few thousand hp. I don’t encounter many confusion mesmers, but they can be pretty annoying.

Also, why the hate on mesmers only? Engineers can stack confusion pretty well too.

It only hurts dodge rolls if you have a trait that casts an ability on roll.

I don’t know what a “confusion mesmer” is. There’s no mesmer that doesn’t cast confusion. The OP is talking about Glamour probably going by his server and recent… events. Glamour is really terrible outside of superzergs, which is why you won’t see them often. Even in superzergs, you really need a few for it to start being brutal.

most organized zergs/raids wants some confusion mesmers and uses them as part of zerg strategy that is a fact.

I can hardly see any profession having such an impact in zerg wars like mesmer and necros.
You can see that for yourself.

Confusion by design is an odd condition. They made an MMO that prioritizes people to be active instead of the passive, autotarget stuff (anyone remember the “hey i swung a sword, hey i swung another!”?)

And then they implement a condition that essentially forces you to NOT be active. That seems to directly contradict one of the core philosophies behind GW2…

But thats besides the point. On topic, Confusion has been nerfed by little over 50% of its damage in sPvP. Obviously it is a fact that it deals way to much damage against other players. But since WvW is essentially following the PvE ruleset, nerfing it would make it even worst in PvE where it already sucks.

Either redesign confusion, or give WvW seperate rules from PvE. Untill then, enjoy 4k damage for sneezing.

Q: What does confusion say in its description?
A: Damages foes on skill activation. (correct me if i am wrong)

Why does it trigger on dodge and on auto-attack ?
Simply make it correspond to the description and it gets more than fine…

And don´t say auto-attack is a skill, for me it isn´t…

So what is left? Keys number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 + elite, think it is good enough…

lol this thread is just people who cant utilize condition removal or who spec glass cannon in wvw. Look a lot of people are new to gw2 and its okay to be that person…. but read your skills and use the ones that remove conditions or get runes that help with that, maybe change your setup to counter it, its not that hard. In Zerg fights you should have people (again) using condition removal. It just a matter of being lazy.

ARM.3912:

I don’t understand why confusion has been allowed to go on as it is for so long. Clearly ignorance on the part of the devs.

I completey agree.

Its an ability which requires zero skill to use and yet its a major factor for zerging.

Any ability which is passive and can dish-out such a massive amount of damage is stupid and should be nerfed to the floor. I have no issues with Confusion being in the game but its MUCH too OP right now. If ur a toon who can throw out alot of direct SINGLETARGET damage then ur punished massively if ur hit with Confusion.

Why should we all be forced to use AOE abilities over singletarget abilities in WvW?

REAL.7483:

Q: What does confusion say in its description?
A: Damages foes on skill activation. (correct me if i am wrong)

Why does it trigger on dodge and on auto-attack ?
Simply make it correspond to the description and it gets more than fine…

And don´t say auto-attack is a skill, for me it isn´t…

So what is left? Keys number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 + elite, think it is good enough…

Autoattack doesnt exist, its a skill with no cooldown. But still a skill. And you could also argue that dodge is a skill in and of itself, granting you temporary evasion and speedy displacement.

Kukchi.6173:

lol this thread is just people who cant utilize condition removal or who spec glass cannon in wvw. Look a lot of people are new to gw2 and its okay to be that person…. but read your skills and use the ones that remove conditions or get runes that help with that, maybe change your setup to counter it, its not that hard. In Zerg fights you should have people (again) using condition removal. It just a matter of being lazy.

This argument holds absolutely not a single drop of water. Simply because in sPvP confusion has already been nerfed (a long time ago) by a massive 50% (little more actually). So its abundantly clear that the damage it does against players was NOT intented.

Rayya.2591:

Wriggle.8057:

IMO Confusion needs to be buffed, it can possibly do nothing if the enemy stops attacking and runs/dodges away.

ps nerf chill

ok , i will not use my skills in 50 vs 50 , i will just run and dodge
WvWvW nowdays is all about skill spam in zerg vs zerg,
Confusion don’t allow you to use skills

with the current skilllag u pretty much wont be able to do anything else anyways.

What’s funny it is Engineers not Mesmers who are most effective at stacking confusion and they don’t have to spend so heavily on triats to do so.

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

What’s funny it is Engineers not Mesmers who are most effective at stacking confusion and they don’t have to spend so heavily on triats to do so.

This isn’t true at all in intensity or frequency.

I have never been killed by confusion in WvW.

Protip – Stop attacking.

Pinko.2076:

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

What’s funny it is Engineers not Mesmers who are most effective at stacking confusion and they don’t have to spend so heavily on triats to do so.

This isn’t true at all in intensity or frequency.

It is for me. I WvW with both the above classes and it is much easier to stack confusion on a target with the Engineer with Pistol, Bomb Kit, and Tool kit than it is with a Mesmer using Scepter, Torch, F2 shattering, traited Glamour utilities, and taking advantage of ethereal fields.

I used to run a confusion heavy build on my engineer.

Pull 14 stack of confusion on someone, for up to 10 seconds duration, and hit for 5k for each action, don’t forget to hide them behind poison/bleed/cripple/burn.

Good luck removing them with average amount of condition removal. Only heavy condtion remover like condimancer can counter this. Well for a bit.

And let’s say you stop attacking for 10 sec, running around, not dodging so it doesn’t proc the dodge skill, not swaping attunement ether.

Now you have 2 seconde before I can apply another 5 stack of confusion. And about 5 seconde before I can apply another one.

If you aren’t already death. Because during those 10 second of “hey newb it’s easy to counter confusion just stop attacking”, I have stack of bleed, poison and freaking BURN + direct damage eating you away for 1-2k a tick.

That’s using a fully confusion build.

Now face a HGH confusion build, those are even worse. There confusion will hit you like a truck.

I used to run it, even made a build about it on the engi forum.

I stopped using it because I think in WvW it’s just a bit too strong right now. Especially for engineer since we have easy acces to burn.

And now imagine all this during a team fight, you get AoE by a confusion bomb, and are stuck with 5 stack of confusion hiting you for 2-3k, while a thief spam you. Good luck.

I don’t think a direct nerf to confusion is necessary, but some kind of tweak, especially on “on dodge” ability. They shouldn’t proc it.

Kukchi.6173:

lol this thread is just people who cant utilize condition removal or who spec glass cannon in wvw. Look a lot of people are new to gw2 and its okay to be that person…. but read your skills and use the ones that remove conditions or get runes that help with that, maybe change your setup to counter it, its not that hard. In Zerg fights you should have people (again) using condition removal. It just a matter of being lazy.

This argument holds absolutely not a single drop of water. Simply because in sPvP confusion has already been nerfed (a long time ago) by a massive 50% (little more actually). So its abundantly clear that the damage it does against players was NOT intented.[/quote]

The argument, in fact, does hold water.
And……confusion was never nerfed in sPvP.
And……sPvP/WvW are not even close to the same game. Using sPvP as justification for your arguments does you a disservice. You don’t have access to the same character build flexibility in sPvP as you do when playing in WvW (consumables being the glaringly obvious example) and we are not fighting over tiny little points on a tiny little map.

To everyone else complaining. If you don’t like dying to confusion; pay attention, bring
-XX% condition duration, or run away. If you can’t accept this advise, accept the fact that you can’t beat the class spec’d for confusion and continue to give the rest of us free loot bags.

Kardiamond.6952:

I used to run a confusion heavy build on my engineer.

Pull 14 stack of confusion on someone, that can stay there for nearly 10 second, and hit for 5k for each action, don’tforget to hide them behind poison/bleed/cripple/burn.

Good luck removing them with average amount of condition removal.

And let’s say you stop attack for 10 sec, running around, not dodge so it doesn’t proc the dodge skill, not swaping attunement ether.

Now you have 2 seconde before I can apply another 5 stack of confusion. And about 5 seconde before I can apply another one.

If you aren’t already death. Because during those 10 second of “hey newb it’s easy to counter confusion just stop attacking”, I have stack of bleed, poison and freaking BURN + direct damage eating you away for 1-2k a tick.

That’s using a fully confusion build.

Now face a HGH confusion build, those are even worse. There confusion will hit you like a truck.

I used to run it, even made a build about it on the engi forum.

I stopped using it because I think in WvW it’s just a bit too strong right now. Especially for engineer since we have easy acces to burn.

And now imagine all thise during a team fight, you get AoE by a confusion bomb, and are stuck with 5 stack of confusion hiting you for 2-3k, while a thief spam you. Good luck.

I don’t think a direct nerf to confusion is necessary, but some kind of tweak, especially on “on dodge” ability. They shouldn’t proc it.

The setup for applying that burst is very easy to dodge, stunbreak dodge if they’re awake, teleport, stability, or just condition removal. Frequent application of confusion are what matters in low numbers or 1v1, not one burst heavy stack.

This is ignoring that comparing engi to glamour is silly. Glamour’s strength is that it’s a technically uncapped aoe. 80 targets eat 4 stacks of confusion if you move through a glamour field, and that’s just one field. Engi doesn’t compete with glamour, ever, in this niche.

If we are comparing normal solo/roaming builds, persona (shatter) mesmers strictly apply more frequent stacks, and can match your peak stacks with the basic shatter bomb of shatter 2/1 that is VERY easy to apply. The passive confusion from torch oh (2 applications), and chaos armor chaining (2/3 chance of confusion for every time they touch you) yet to be included.

KnattyDreads.1856:

Kardiamond.6952:

I used to run a confusion heavy build on my engineer.

Pull 14 stack of confusion on someone, for up to 10 seconds duration, and hit for 5k for each action, don’t forget to hide them behind poison/bleed/cripple/burn.

Good luck removing them with average amount of condition removal. Only heavy condtion remover like condimancer can counter this. Well for a bit.

And let’s say you stop attacking for 10 sec, running around, not dodging so it doesn’t proc the dodge skill, not swaping attunement ether.

Now you have 2 seconde before I can apply another 5 stack of confusion. And about 5 seconde before I can apply another one.

If you aren’t already death. Because during those 10 second of “hey newb it’s easy to counter confusion just stop attacking”, I have stack of bleed, poison and freaking BURN + direct damage eating you away for 1-2k a tick.

That’s using a fully confusion build.

Now face a HGH confusion build, those are even worse. There confusion will hit you like a truck.

I used to run it, even made a build about it on the engi forum.

I stopped using it because I think in WvW it’s just a bit too strong right now. Especially for engineer since we have easy acces to burn.

And now imagine all this during a team fight, you get AoE by a confusion bomb, and are stuck with 5 stack of confusion hiting you for 2-3k, while a thief spam you. Good luck.

I don’t think a direct nerf to confusion is necessary, but some kind of tweak, especially on “on dodge” ability. They shouldn’t proc it.

Nice post, correct me if I’m wrong but this points to a strength within a class and specifically a build within a class. Frequency of application, access to additional conditions etc… (burn is killer :P ) And I believe the majority of complaint comes from the uncapped AoE of glamour spec’s. The build you are referring to points more towards 1vX and small group.

Kardiamond.6952:

And let’s say you stop attacking for 10 sec, running around, not dodging so it doesn’t proc the dodge skill, not swaping attunement ether.

If you aren’t already death. Because during those 10 second of “hey newb it’s easy to counter confusion just stop attacking”, I have stack of bleed, poison and freaking BURN + direct damage eating you away for 1-2k a tick.

The only problem I have with confusion is that it synergizes so well with other conditions/boons that it effectively becomes more than just condition damage. It becomes an effective “stun” or “heal reducer” in some instances.

Just a couple of examples. Confusion plus retaliation makes it so that anytime you swing your weapon and connect, depending on your power and the malice of the enemy target, you could very easily do more damage to yourself than your auto attack to that person. In those instances when your condition removal is on cooldown, what can you do? Basically nothing. So, you’re effectively stunned, with the exception of running around like an idiot. For those with dodge traits, you can’t even dodge!

Second, confusion stacked with poison is enormously powerful, with both conditions adding to one another immensely. Let’s say a heal is 7k but the person has 6 stacks of confusion with poison. That person’s heal is reduced to 4,690 before even pressing the heal button. But, by pressing the heal button, the person also takes 2k+ confusion damage. So now that person’s heal effectively becomes 2,690 instead of the normal 7k.

That, to me, seems pretty powerful.

You must be doing it wrong… How long does confusion last?

Ping.5739:

You must be doing it wrong… How long does confusion last?

5 seconds

I love when I cast 2 skills before I even get the
confusion and by the time they’re actually casted I just took 50% (6-8k) damage
from confusion bombs.

confusion can ne prolonged to 10 seconds rather easily.

I’m playing an off engineer build that uses some confusion. Confusion is definitely strong, but there are some bugs/issues that should be addressed before talking about an across-the-board nerf.

For example, an elementalist in tornado will take three tics of confusion damage every second. They are also severely punished for changing attunements. “On dodge” effects proccing confusion is unnecessary and frustrating. Confusion currently tics damage as you activate a skill but before it gives the effect, so if you use a condition removal skill to get rid of confusion, you’ll take damage from that.

So before we completely nerf confusion, it would be best to fix some of the bugs/unnecessary elements.

As a Necro I have to laugh at this thread. Most Conditionmancers soon find that there’s so much condition removal in WvW that they switch to a different build. Now that Epidemic has been LoS nerfed, there’s even less Conditionmancers out there.

Swamurabi.7890:

As a Necro I have to laugh at this thread. Most Conditionmancers soon find that there’s so much condition removal in WvW that they switch to a different build. Now that Epidemic has been LoS nerfed, there’s even less Conditionmancers out there.

I play conditionmancer and feel more powerful than ever in WvW. Mesmers are not much of a prob for me Ill sit there and wait till they stack 10x confusion on me than throw it back in there faces and LOL as they kill themselves.

But I can see how players could have a hard time with confusion, I think simply allowing one to dodge and heal themselves without taking damage should be allowed, right now unless one specializes in condition removal and or transferring there is not much of a counter to it, only true counter is to sit there and do nothing.

Terrahero.9358:

This argument holds absolutely not a single drop of water. Simply because in sPvP confusion has already been nerfed (a long time ago) by a massive 50% (little more actually). So its abundantly clear that the damage it does against players was NOT intented.

It was never nerfed in Spvp..
It was buffed in PvE because it was too weak.

Its less of a problem in Spvp because people usually don’t run around with no form of condition removal spamming skills, with 4+ stacks of confusion on themselves.

Swamurabi.7890:

As a Necro I have to laugh at this thread. Most Conditionmancers soon find that there’s so much condition removal in WvW that they switch to a different build. Now that Epidemic has been LoS nerfed, there’s even less Conditionmancers out there.

Of course there are. They switched to confusion mesmers and HGH engineers.