Guild Wars 2

If you’re dying to confusion… it’s YOU that is the problem. You’re the one not watching to see that you’re in a big bubble that is an immediate sign that Confusion is in the area… and you’re the one that keeps attacking while you’re in it.

If you’re dying to confusion, you’re doing it wrong. This is coming from someone who is NOT a mesmer and spends 99% of my time in WvW.

Rayya.2591:

ok , i will not use my skills in 50 vs 50 , i will just run and dodge

You can dodge? Elementalists blow themselves up dodging and changing attunement. They don’t even have to use abilities directly because they have abilities tied to those two things. heh

Ruprect.7260:

I have never been killed by confusion in WvW.

Protip – Stop attacking.

I have been killed a couple of time by it. Miss the condition on my bar and dodge roll with full stacks on me from the mesmers that know how to do that…. BOOM!

Don’t even have to attack on some classes to get eaten up by it.

Alodar.5794:

If you’re dying to confusion… it’s YOU that is the problem. You’re the one not watching to see that you’re in a big bubble that is an immediate sign that Confusion is in the area… and you’re the one that keeps attacking while you’re in it.

If you’re dying to confusion, you’re doing it wrong. This is coming from someone who is NOT a mesmer and spends 99% of my time in WvW.

The only thing that really needs to change it for it not to fire due to passive abilities related to traits as well as a couple of class mechanics. It should never fire on a dodge roll, a trait related to a dodge roll effect, ele attunement switch, or abilities that fire off of that. Also, cleanses should be applied before the confusion and not the other way around… imo.

Aside from that, I love the meta it introduces

Other things that need nerfing .

Confusion, as mentioned

Line of warding

Static field

Stealth, that needs to have its stealthiness cut in half and invisibility which needs it’s length doubled.

Any speed buff

Any ranged damage such as bows, rifles,pistols. (In fact they should be outlawed outright all together lest you hurt someone)

Any fatty food items such as cookies,cakes, bread, and pies.

Toughness needs to be capped at 900 to reduce the number of bullies in the world.

And I could go on and on and on.

Alodar was correct, mesmers don’t kill people with confusion, people kill themselves.It’s not the mesmers fault.

Whitebeard.5172:

Other things that need nerfing .

Confusion, as mentioned

Line of warding

Static field

Stealth, that needs to have its stealthiness cut in half and invisibility which needs it’s length doubled.

Any speed buff

Any ranged damage such as bows, rifles,pistols. (In fact they should be outlawed outright all together lest you hurt someone)

Any fatty food items such as cookies,cakes, bread, and pies.

Toughness needs to be capped at 900 to reduce the number of bullies in the world.

And I could go on and on and on.

Alodar was correct, mesmers don’t kill people with confusion, people kill themselves.It’s not the mesmers fault.

Add in knockdowns. 3 seconds not being able to do anything is OP. Being able to chain it is OP as well.

Ruprect.7260:

Whitebeard.5172:

Other things that need nerfing .

Confusion, as mentioned

Line of warding

Static field

Stealth, that needs to have its stealthiness cut in half and invisibility which needs it’s length doubled.

Any speed buff

Any ranged damage such as bows, rifles,pistols. (In fact they should be outlawed outright all together lest you hurt someone)

Any fatty food items such as cookies,cakes, bread, and pies.

Toughness needs to be capped at 900 to reduce the number of bullies in the world.

And I could go on and on and on.

Alodar was correct, mesmers don’t kill people with confusion, people kill themselves.It’s not the mesmers fault.

Add in knockdowns. 3 seconds not being able to do anything is OP. Being able to chain it is OP as well.

I was kidding Rup.

But yeah, if one person knocks you down then common decency should dictate that the next knockdown cast, picks you up and dusts you off. ; )

The point is the game is a blast the way it is.There is no justification in putzing awound with the classes at this point and surely not screwing with confusion, an effect that damages people but only when they let it.

REAL.7483:

Q: What does confusion say in its description?
A: Damages foes on skill activation. (correct me if i am wrong)

Why does it trigger on dodge and on auto-attack ?
Simply make it correspond to the description and it gets more than fine…

And don´t say auto-attack is a skill, for me it isn´t…

So what is left? Keys number 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 + elite, think it is good enough…

What do you mean for you auto-attack isn’t a skill? Everyone can select one skill to automatically recast when the cool-down is finished. But somehow you magically have a different build of GW2 from everyone else? If you don’t like the auto-activation, turn it off and just because the #1 skill by default is the designated auto-activated skill doesn’t mean you have to leave it that way.

My buddy runs condi engi and every time he prybars and pistols or whatever for 7 stacks of confu (while stacking 6 other condis simultaneously, making it impossible to remove) killing people in less than a second,, he just goes “Confusion is so kittening OP in WvW”. Nothing else, no emotion.

Honestly we need to balance it the same as sPVP, there’s no kittening reason it should be otherwise.

ARM.3912:

I don’t understand why confusion has been allowed to go on as it is for so long. Clearly ignorance on the part of the devs.

Let’s see if they make any comments in the imminent State of the Game. Does anybody know when it’s due?

Edit: I just read this announcement that the devs won’t be in it this month but after last month, I guess I can understand that, “Isn’t that a bit … strong?” made me lol.

State of the game has absolutely nothing to do with WvW, only s/tpvp. However Devon is tenfold more involved in WvW than Habib and Mike were out together, so we’ll probably get a response.

Whitebeard.5172:

Ruprect.7260:

Whitebeard.5172:

Other things that need nerfing .

Confusion, as mentioned

Line of warding

Static field

Stealth, that needs to have its stealthiness cut in half and invisibility which needs it’s length doubled.

Any speed buff

Any ranged damage such as bows, rifles,pistols. (In fact they should be outlawed outright all together lest you hurt someone)

Any fatty food items such as cookies,cakes, bread, and pies.

Toughness needs to be capped at 900 to reduce the number of bullies in the world.

And I could go on and on and on.

Alodar was correct, mesmers don’t kill people with confusion, people kill themselves.It’s not the mesmers fault.

Add in knockdowns. 3 seconds not being able to do anything is OP. Being able to chain it is OP as well.

I was kidding Rup.

But yeah, if one person knocks you down then common decency should dictate that the next knockdown cast, picks you up and dusts you off. ; )

The point is the game is a blast the way it is.There is no justification in putzing awound with the classes at this point and surely not screwing with confusion, an effect that damages people but only when they let it.

I was just playing along with you. I also was just kidding.

@shimmerless
Iaughed so hard when you said its the weakest condition. It does one of three things depending on the player:
1) they insta die from continuing skills
2) they completely stop attacking and are basically “dazed” for up to 10s, which is insanely OP in in structured group fights
3) it’s cleansed, which more often than not is the only cleanse the player has, meaning you could setup a condi burst with all the conditions you want and he couldn’t do anything

lol guys just turn off auto attack l2p NOOB

I think most good mesmer can keep over 50% uptime on confusion in a duel^^. and if you spend 50% of the time >just not using a single skill<, you’ll die :<. You don’t even have to be condition spec for confusion to do great damage either^^.

Confusion is dumb in (boring)pve cause most mobs and bosses can’t even manage more then a single attack every 5 seconds, where as in pvp you’re constatly using skills. If they removed it form auto attack that would be kinda nice, buuht idk T.T Not really sure how they could change it some how for wvw that wouldn’t make it even more worthless in pve. (its already worthless in pve, who cares, no ones goes to fractals 40 with "LF1m Confusion mesmer/engiee)~

Straegen.2938:

Stop attacking, healing and dodging! I don’t die to confusion but that mob of players coming behind it while a player is on effective lock down gets the job done.

If confusion hasn’t killed you/your group, you are either the greatest player in the game or oblivious. Is it OP? That is surely debatable. Is it highly effective? Kitten yes it is.

Sir, I think your almost there on how to avoid death by confusion.

And may I add that confusion effects us all. It is meant as a moderately quick lockdown or take the damage effect. That’s it in a nutshell.

There is one reason why confusion wasn’t nerfed in WvW like in PvP.

It’s not because the meta is different, it’s not because we can use condi food, it’s not because people have more condition removal in group.

It’s one reason:

Confusion sucks in PvE.

A confusion build is a lot weaker on mobs that attack once every 5 second. And since WvW use the PvE rule, nerfing it like sPvP would hit really hard confusion in PvE. They just couldn’t do that.

That’s the only reason why it wasn’t nerfed in WvW. The same reason why Elem DD healing didn’t get the nerf stick in WvW.

kfarb.6732:

Confusion is Absolutely Fabulous.

When it lands. Even zerg vs. zerg, the opponents group may veer unexpectedly. Application at the last second (additional risk) or predictable opponents get the best results. And forget application via clones/phantasms… they don’t last in the massive AoE.

What I find funny is that as a power based engineer, I mainly use pry bar for the direct damage yet the confusion often deals more damage than anything else I use.

Kardiamond.6952:

I don’t think a direct nerf to confusion is necessary, but some kind of tweak, especially on “on dodge” ability. They shouldn’t proc it.

I think this change needs to be made as well.

Mesmers can stack 6 stacks easily pressing f2,
no channel there. Up to 11 with the channel but if I already had 6 stacks on me and I didn’t have any dodges I’d be pretty kittened. Oh geez, what of you had to go against more than one person??? Like TWO! An engi and a Mesmer, and the engi keeps perma burn, poison bleeds cripple etc etc while try both stack confusion. You can’t do anything LOL insta death. Not to mention my favorite the warrior Mesmer combo where a Mesmer stacks confu on you then a warrior bursts you to 0 in one 100b because you can’t move with 11 stacks of confu and an immobilize!

Confusion is fine as is. I’ve never lost to a confusion build.

People can still beat confu builds (I’ve never lost to one either) but it still
needs to be nerfed 50% in WvW just like it was in sPVP. idc how they do that as long as it happens

Archer.1658:

Confusion is fine as is. I’ve never lost to a confusion build.

Say the guy that was maining a confusion mesmer.

Just spec some condition removal, a lot of players overlook this wanting more power in their abilities. I sacrifice some things I want in my build in order to remove conditions. IMHO confusion is the least worrying of conditions because I can remove it without taking any damage from it and it puts a really obvious haze effect on your head so you spot it quickly. I find bleeds harder to deal with than confusion because they are dripping away at my health before I deal with them and I don’t always notice them as quickly as I do confusion. But I’m not saying omg nerf bleeds they are OP, because properly specced no conditions are really that much of a problem.

If you’re losing to a confusion mesmers, you’re failing at this game, terribly. It’s YOUR fault…

Learn to remove conditions. If your group isn’t spec’d to remove large amounts of condition… YOU are doing it wrong.

I would be embarrassed to die to confusion… I am NOT a mesmer.

It’s a VERY simply ability to A) Remove and Take no damage from.

TallDan.6350:

Just spec some condition removal, a lot of players overlook this wanting more power in their abilities. I sacrifice some things I want in my build in order to remove conditions. IMHO confusion is the least worrying of conditions because I can remove it without taking any damage from it and it puts a really obvious haze effect on your head so you spot it quickly. I find bleeds harder to deal with than confusion because they are dripping away at my health before I deal with them and I don’t always notice them as quickly as I do confusion. But I’m not saying omg nerf bleeds they are OP, because properly specced no conditions are really that much of a problem.

The problem is someone might not be able to play the way they want if they have to take cond removal.

Alodar.5794:

If you’re losing to a confusion mesmers, you’re failing at this game, terribly. It’s YOUR fault…

Learn to remove conditions. If your group isn’t spec’d to remove large amounts of condition… YOU are doing it wrong.

I would be embarrassed to die to confusion… I am NOT a mesmer.

It’s a VERY simply ability to A) Remove and Take no damage from.

LOLOLOLOLOL

I agree if you die to confusion you should feel bad;)

Ruprect.7260:

The problem is someone might not be able to play the way they want if they have to take cond removal.

Then play the way you want and learn to accept dying from confusion.

Or….learn to adjust your play to the conditions of the game.

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

Tyaen.5148:

Ruprect.7260:

The problem is someone might not be able to play the way they want if they have to take cond removal.

Then play the way you want and learn to accept dying from confusion.

Or….learn to adjust your play to the conditions of the game.

I’m sorry, you thought I was serious. I need to remember to add /sarcasm to some of my posts.

Gadzooks.4687:

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

I know it may seem like Im switching sides here but I’m not really. Retalliation and confusion are the only ways to counter hard, fast hitting skills (like ranger SB and thief unload). We already have blocks, aegis, and blinds to protect against single even higher hitting skills so we needed a way to counter the fast lower hitting (but still hitting a lot), and one of these ways is confusion.

I have a mesmer (and used to run a confusion build), and I think the biggest thing that needs to be changed it confusion hitting when dodging. Hitting people for dodging is not how the ability is described and it unfairly locks down people with on dodge traits, even if they were minor traits. Which I believe is unfair.

But people mentioned bringing numbers rather than exaggeration. So lets do that and people can judge based on that.

- Feedback and null field 2 confusion for 5 seconds
-Leaving the fields since they destroy boons, prevent conditions on mesmer and prevent ranged means 2 confusion for 5 seconds
-If you run mirror as a utility that is another 4-6 confusion from cry of frustration for 5-6 seconds.
-Then use scepter three for 5 stacks, less (2-3) if you dodge but dodging with 8-10 confusion is usually a very bad idea if you have an on dodge trait. For 7-8 seconds
-Follow by scepter 2 causing another 1 confusion from blind. 5 seconds.

That is my opening when I used to run my glamor build. Most of these abilities on are relatively long cool downs (30-40 seconds) although the scepter attacks are on short cool downs (12 seconds for the blind and 15 for the 5 stacks). It applied usually about 13-15 confusion each hitting for around 400-430ish damage depending on how many stacks of corruption if you are a pure condition build.

This opening has the potential to hit up to 5200-6450 damage if you hit any ability or if you dodge with an on dodge trait. At most I usually only ever got 1-3 procs of that before the confusion started to wear off. So if you, for example if you use a cleanse and it doesn’t get the confusion (it got a bleed, burn or vulnerability from staff for example) and then you dodge that is 10400 – 12900 damage. When it starts to wear off it was still hitting for thousands because even 5 stacks (which was usually the amount I maintained on people using scepter, the odd mind wrack and chaos armor while I waited for cool downs) is over 2k damage. So you are either doing that damage or locking someone out of all abilities and dodge roll.

I will also add in my experience fighting1v1 a confusion mesmer is a terrible spec (I say this both playing with and against confusion builds on my other classes).

Ruprect.7260:

Tyaen.5148:

Ruprect.7260:

The problem is someone might not be able to play the way they want if they have to take cond removal.

Then play the way you want and learn to accept dying from confusion.

Or….learn to adjust your play to the conditions of the game.

I’m sorry, you thought I was serious. I need to remember to add /sarcasm to some of my posts.

Ha! The trend of the thread made me disregard the fact it might have been sarcasm.

I’d rather take a trait other than 409, but I know if I run into a Necro I’m in trouble, so I carry it.

shimmerless.4560:

Gadzooks.4687:

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

Well, again, you can just take your skill #1 off autofire. You might say, “That’s APM intensive” but it seems Engies cope just fine with grenades, and they don’t even have the benefit of a locked target.

But they have the benefit of it being AoE, and not affected by line of sight. Lose one thing, gain another.

Weapons that are based around fast attack suffer, like you said, if taken off autofire. Dont really want carpel tunnel either from hitting my #1 key 100 times a minute.

The real solution here is for the devs to properly balance abilities in their game, not leave it up to players to make bandaid solutions and compromises to a system that is skewed.

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

I know it may seem like Im switching sides here but I’m not really. Retalliation and confusion are the only ways to counter hard, fast hitting skills (like ranger SB and thief unload). We already have blocks, aegis, and blinds to protect against single even higher hitting skills so we needed a way to counter the fast lower hitting (but still hitting a lot), and one of these ways is confusion.

Just FYI… shotbow is fast hitting, not hard hitting. It hits fast, because it doesnt hit hard. Long bow hits hard, but slow. See the balance here?

The devs implimented proper damage to speed when it comes to the damage of someone using these 2 weapons. Now they just need to impliment the same logic, and same balance to confusion when its used on someone using them.

Gadzooks.4687:

shimmerless.4560:

Gadzooks.4687:

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

Well, again, you can just take your skill #1 off autofire. You might say, “That’s APM intensive” but it seems Engies cope just fine with grenades, and they don’t even have the benefit of a locked target.

But they have the benefit of it being AoE, and not affected by line of sight. Lose one thing, gain another.

Weapons that are based around fast attack suffer, like you said, if taken off autofire. Dont really want carpel tunnel either from hitting my #1 key 100 times a minute.

The real solution here is for the devs to properly balance abilities in their game, not leave it up to players to make bandaid solutions and compromises to a system that is skewed.

‘Skewed’ is a matter of perspective and utterly subjective.

If you are dying to confusion l2p. And/or don’t run with the mindless, button mashing zerg.

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Gadzooks.4687:

Id just be happy if they scaled confusion damage based on your attack speed.

Confusion is the bane of short bow users. 3 stacks of confusion from a cond geared player = 1000+ damage per action you do. Shortbow = about 2 actions per second. Thats 2000+ damage a second you take just because your #1 ability is on auto attack by default, and clicking the ground to break target isnt always 100% responsive. Imagine what 8+ stacks would do in this situation.

Even blizzard was able to grasp the concept of damage coefficients scaling differently based on how fast or slow you attacked. At the very least, Anet should make it so that each stack of confusion should only be able to apply damage no more than ONCE per second.

I know it may seem like Im switching sides here but I’m not really. Retalliation and confusion are the only ways to counter hard, fast hitting skills (like ranger SB and thief unload). We already have blocks, aegis, and blinds to protect against single even higher hitting skills so we needed a way to counter the fast lower hitting (but still hitting a lot), and one of these ways is confusion.

Just FYI… shotbow is fast hitting, not hard hitting. It hits fast, because it doesnt hit hard. Long bow hits hard, but slow. See the balance here?

The devs implimented proper damage to speed when it comes to the damage of someone using these 2 weapons. Now they just need to impliment the same logic, and same balance to confusion when its used on someone using them.

Now so you don’t think I was picking on you in my previous quote. Your logic is sound here, but its implementation is all black magic to me

shimmerless.4560:

You can cleanse, you can get out of the zerg, or at a pinch you can just stop hitting skill #1 and you’ll be fine.

Not entirely accurate or fair.

Not every class can cleanse without getting hit by it, in some case multiple times. Dodge rolling isn’t an option either.

Simply put, if you have any combination of multiple stacks and/or health that it will kill you to do anything, your only choice it to stand there for full duration (and try to avoid all the other damage coming at you)

Any disagreement with that?

covenn.7165:

shimmerless.4560:

You can cleanse, you can get out of the zerg, or at a pinch you can just stop hitting skill #1 and you’ll be fine.

Not entirely accurate or fair.

Not every class can cleanse without getting hit by it, in some case multiple times. Dodge rolling isn’t an option either.

Simply put, if you have any combination of multiple stacks and/or health that it will kill you to do anything, your only choice it to stand there for full duration (and try to avoid all the other damage coming at you)

Any disagreement with that?

I actually found it to be fairly accurate and justifiably fair.

[quote=1806756;covenn.7165:]

purpleskies.3274:

This opening has the potential to hit up to 5200-6450 damage if you hit any ability or if you dodge with an on dodge trait.

The only times I get killed by confusion are when I don’t see the condition quickly enough. I don’t mean the animation that happens when it hits me, I mean the actual icon on the bar. I never miss the animation from the damage

Why? Fire off an ability then dodge roll while switching attunement you basically get hit 3x instantly. With enough stacks that can be instant death for me before I even have a chance see the animation and react to it by altering my behavior. Not to much you can do about it to be honest, and I hate to imagine how much it wrecks up low health pool classes not wearing all PTV gear like I do, who only have 14k health. Heh

As I said, I love the meta it introduces and I am even ok with the damage. I just think a couple of minor things need to be tweaked.

covenn.7165:

As I said, I love the meta it introduces and I am even ok with the damage. I just think a couple of minor things need to be tweaked.

Completely agree with you. I like confusion and the strategy it introduces but the hitting on dodge for example is something I really think needs to be changed.

covenn.7165:

I hate to imagine how much it wrecks up low health pool classes not wearing all PTV gear like I do, who only have 14k health. Heh

I’ve seen higher stacks tick for close to 10k. Its crazy watching them melt.

KnattyDreads.1856:

covenn.7165:

shimmerless.4560:

You can cleanse, you can get out of the zerg, or at a pinch you can just stop hitting skill #1 and you’ll be fine.

Not entirely accurate or fair.

Not every class can cleanse without getting hit by it, in some case multiple times. Dodge rolling isn’t an option either.

Simply put, if you have any combination of multiple stacks and/or health that it will kill you to do anything, your only choice it to stand there for full duration (and try to avoid all the other damage coming at you)

Any disagreement with that?

I actually found it to be fairly accurate and justifiably fair.

I dont think I know anyone who considers your #1 autoattack to be what people refer to as “skill spamming in a zerg”. Very few classes in very few situations dont have auto attack on their #1 ability (engineers with grenades being an example).

I hate zergs, I run in small guild groups. And confusion still decimates me. Not because im a moron, but because the mechanics of the game require my class to react faster than say, a guardian with a staff.

In the time it takes most weapons to attack twice (2 attacks, which seems like a fair judge of when someone would break target to avoid taking more confusion damage), my shortbow has attacked 5 times. Another mesmer above mentioned how he could make someone take 5000-6000 damage each for the first couple actions someone did after he put his stacks of confusion on. 5k damage is probably an extreme uber gear case here so….

A mes with 1500 cond damage, will do 355 damage per stack of confusion
3 stacks of confusion = 1065 damage
5 stacks of confusion (very easily achieved by most mesmers) = 1775 damage

If someone with a slower weapon stops their autoattack after taking damage twice (2.5 to 3 seconds roughly), then that means they take 3550. 3550 is in no way “OMGOPABILITY”, but it is a nice solid hit. For someone with 20k life, its close to 20% of that in 1 attack.

Someone with a faster weapon, like a showbow, in the same time given (2.5 to 3 seconds), would take damage about 4 to 5 times. So while slower attacking players would take 3550 damage before they said “oh drat, I need to stop attacking”, a player with a faster weapon will have taken as much as 8875 damage. while 3550 wasnt huge, 8875 damage in 3 seconds (not counting any other damage they are doing to you), is a LOT of damage. For someone with 20k life, they have now lost about 44% of their life. Same time to react, just hindered more by the systems game mechanics because it makes no attempt to balance or compensate attack speed vs damage for this ONE specific ability called confusion.

1500 condition damage isnt even the max someone can attain either. Nor is only having 5 stacks of confusion. Ive frequently had 8 or 9 stacks on me for a couple seconds at a time, which leaves my 20k health pool at around 25% of its max. All in the matter of no more than 3 seconds. This isnt because im foolishly pressing my buttons and spamming abilities. This is because 1. shotbow attacks so fast, 2. its set to autoattack by design, 3. breaking target often isnt instantaneous.

The devs need to impliment proper balanced mechanics in this case. If they balance OUTGOING damage based on an attack speed to damage done formula, then they need to likewise base INCOMING damage for the sake of confusion on a similar formula. How they do this may be “black magic” to some, but I can asure you, as a programmer, this is only something that requires time and effort.

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

Hmm in response to the OPs original request that confusion be prioritised when cleansing multiple conditions, I think this would only be beneficial if you’re fighting just a glamour mesmer who is also hitting you with random conditions using Staff skills. However, in most situations, you’re getting hit by conditions from multiple sources and whilst confusion can be mitigated by just backing off for a bit, burning, poison and bleeding will continue to chip away at you, unless you cleanse condition and can be far more dangerous and easily applied to you by other classes.

I used to play as a glamour mesmer, but the risks and limitations of relying on confusion damage almost exclusively (stacking other conditions is unreliable) were a pain in the kitten at times. Getting confusion stacks from feedback + null field was easy as pie, but getting a full cry of frustration + confusing images off was a nightmare unless you’re in a 1v1 and they don’t dodge at all. Also, you’re so reliant on an enemy being ridiculously unaware and spamming auto-attack that when someone just runs away there is so little you can do.

Darek.1836:

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

You are still missing the logic here

Weapon 1: does 50 damage, every second
Weapon 2: does 100 damage every 2 seconds

Weapon 1 hits you multiple times in 4 seconds.
Weapon 2 hits you only 2 times in 4 seconds

Both do the same damage to you

Faster weapons arent hitting you any harder over the course of them hitting you multiple times than a slower weapon is hitting you for with fewer hits. You just SEE damage numbers popping up over your head more frequently than with slower weapons.

No reason fast weapons should be penalized more in the case of confusion.

Gadzooks.4687:

KnattyDreads.1856:

covenn.7165:

shimmerless.4560:

You can cleanse, you can get out of the zerg, or at a pinch you can just stop hitting skill #1 and you’ll be fine.

Not entirely accurate or fair.

Not every class can cleanse without getting hit by it, in some case multiple times. Dodge rolling isn’t an option either.

Simply put, if you have any combination of multiple stacks and/or health that it will kill you to do anything, your only choice it to stand there for full duration (and try to avoid all the other damage coming at you)

Any disagreement with that?

I actually found it to be fairly accurate and justifiably fair.

I dont think I know anyone who considers your #1 autoattack to be what people refer to as “skill spamming in a zerg”. Very few classes in very few situations dont have auto attack on their #1 ability (engineers with grenades being an example).

I hate zergs, I run in small guild groups. And confusion still decimates me. Not because im a moron, but because the mechanics of the game require my class to react faster than say, a guardian with a staff.

In the time it takes most weapons to attack twice (2 attacks, which seems like a fair judge of when someone would break target to avoid taking more confusion damage), my shortbow has attacked 5 times. Another mesmer above mentioned how he could make someone take 5000-6000 damage each for the first couple actions someone did after he put his stacks of confusion on. 5k damage is probably an extreme uber gear case here so….

A mes with 1500 cond damage, will do 355 damage per stack of confusion
3 stacks of confusion = 1065 damage
5 stacks of confusion (very easily achieved by most mesmers) = 1775 damage

If someone with a slower weapon stops their autoattack after taking damage twice (2.5 to 3 seconds roughly), then that means they take 3550. 3550 is in no way “OMGOPABILITY”, but it is a nice solid hit. For someone with 20k life, its close to 20% of that in 1 attack.

Someone with a faster weapon, like a showbow, in the same time given (2.5 to 3 seconds), would take damage about 4 to 5 times. So while slower attacking players would take 3550 damage before they said “oh drat, I need to stop attacking”, a player with a faster weapon will have taken as much as 8875 damage. while 3550 wasnt huge, 8875 damage in 3 seconds (not counting any other damage they are doing to you), is a LOT of damage. For someone with 20k life, they have now lost about 44% of their life. Same time to react, just hindered more by the systems game mechanics because it makes no attempt to balance or compensate attack speed vs damage for this ONE specific ability called confusion.

1500 condition damage isnt even the max someone can attain either. Nor is only having 5 stacks of confusion. Ive frequently had 8 or 9 stacks on me for a couple seconds at a time, which leaves my 20k health pool at around 25% of its max. All in the matter of no more than 3 seconds. This isnt because im foolishly pressing my buttons and spamming abilities. This is because 1. shotbow attacks so fast, 2. its set to autoattack by design, 3. breaking target often isnt instantaneous.

The devs need to impliment proper balanced mechanics in this case. If they balance OUTGOING damage based on an attack speed to damage done formula, then they need to likewise base INCOMING damage for the sake of confusion on a similar formula. How they do this may be “black magic” to some, but I can asure you, as a programmer, this is only something that requires time and effort.

Ok, and what is the direct damage output of this mesmer that applies 9 stacks of confusion and has devoted his build, traits and gear to reaching 1700 condition damage? How long are the cooldowns prior to re-applying this many stacks (assuming you don’t dodge the shatter.)
The ‘black magic’ was tongue in cheek. And I am salivating over the e-tears of a thief btw.

Gadzooks.4687:

Darek.1836:

Sorry to the guy above.. I didn’t mean fast attacks hit hard, but when you hit multiple times they do. And like I said, you cant counter fast attacks with blind and blocks, so you need confusion and retalliation to do that.

You are still missing the logic here

Weapon 1: does 50 damage, every second
Weapon 2: does 100 damage every 2 seconds

Weapon 1 hits you multiple times in 4 seconds.
Weapon 2 hits you only 2 times in 4 seconds

Both do the same damage to you

Faster weapons arent hitting you any harder over the course of them hitting you multiple times than a slower weapon is hitting you for with fewer hits. You just SEE damage numbers popping up over your head more frequently than with slower weapons.

No reason fast weapons should be penalized more in the case of confusion.

You seem to be missing my logic as well.

Cast 1 blind on weapon 2 = 0 damage every 2 seconds
Cast 1 blind on weapon = 150 damage every 2 seconds
Same applies to blocks or aegis..
This is why we need confusion and retalliation, because the counter what blinds and blocks cant.

KnattyDreads.1856:

Ok, and what is the direct damage output of this mesmer that applies 9 stacks of confusion and has devoted his build, traits and gear to reaching 1700 condition damage? How long are the cooldowns prior to re-applying this many stacks (assuming you don’t dodge the shatter.)
The ‘black magic’ was tongue in cheek. And I am salivating over the e-tears of a thief btw.

Ranger, not thief…
/wipes his tears on is pet, who is still rooted in place trying to attack something that moved away.

Im not saying confusion shouldnt do 9000+ damage to someone. Im saying it shouldnt do it in 2-3 seconds.

If someone with a 1 second attack takes 2000 damage… then, by math logic:
Someone with a 0.5 second attack should take 1000 damage

Both would take 2000 damage over the course of 1 second.
If both attacked without stopping for 5 seconds, both would equally take 10,000 damage. (instead of how it is now…where the person with the 0.5 second attack taking twice as much damage.)