Guild Wars 2

Entropy.4732:

This discussion is ultimately pointless because it’ll have no effect on what the dev’s decide to do. Anet has proven to be very measured in their balancing patches.

actually i can see them balancing upon complaints a lot.
Its an impression many forum poster have.
May it be right or wrong……

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

lol, wow dude, just… wow. What is wrong with you, seriously? Here’s the original post for you, again. For the third or even fourth time. Entropy instantly got it, why don’t you?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Confusion/page/4#post1823167
Please also see this post where I even explicitly said that it’s not a problem to apply 12 stacks of confusion:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Confusion/page/6#post1835049
I know you must have “read” it (or at least noticed it) because you replied to it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Confusion/page/6#post1835217

I’ll now quote it once more for you, then I officially give up:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

If you still don’t get what I was replying to, I don’t know how to help you any further. I’m not even having an argument with you, you just keep replying to something I never said

Bleed- Typical Duration: 10-20 seconds. Dmg per stack: ~150. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 10-15, conditions for taking damage: none, typical cooldown of skills that apply: 0. Mass application: easy

Burn- Typical Duration: 1-2 minutes. Dmg per tick: ~2000, Conditions for taking damage: None. Cool down for skills that apply: None, constant uptime possible. Mass application: easy

Confusion- Typical duration: 5-8 seconds (10 second cap). Dmg per stack: ~300. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 5-8. Conditions for taking damage: Only take dmg on activated skills. Typical Cooldown of skills that apply: 30-60 seconds. Constant uptime NOT possible. Mass application, 1 specific build of 1 class: easy. Not possible otherwise.

Confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game. Stupidity is what makes it useful.

Dmg was nerfed in sPvP because in 1v1 situations it is possible for mesmers to get 10-15 stacks on a single target which was OP for point holding since the enemy couldn’t do anything until help arrived and by then it was too late for them. With the abundance of condition removal and the mass zergs this is a non-issue in WvW.

Kardiamond.6952:

Icelut.3509:

Confusion is the magic condition that only kills bad players. if you are a button mashing zerging baddie then confusion will kill you. If you don’t have enough intelligence to see the BRIGHT PURPLE numbers flashing up on your screen and stop attacking for a few seconds then you deserve to die. Seriously we have had this conversation so many times. Confusion is so easy to deal with. JUST DO NOTHING! it will go away!

Here a challenge :

Meet a confusion engineer, get hit by confusion.

Stand there doing nothing.

Now you are dead from burn/bleed/direct damage after 5-10 sec, while the confusion duration is 10 second for each application, can be applied each 12-15 second.

Good tips man.

Learn 2 cleanse? All my builds across all my characters for WvW have the following as mandatory for builds:

Some form of Condition Removal
and at least one Stun Breaker

I have NO problem dealing with confusion on ANY of my characters. If I am fighting a Mesmer (or prybar engie), I’ll save my cleanse for when they confusion bomb me and I have a lot of stacks.

And if your STILL struggling, turn off autocast on ability 1….

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Bleed- Typical Duration: 10-20 seconds. Dmg per stack: ~150. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 10-15, conditions for taking damage: none, typical cooldown of skills that apply: 0. Mass application: easy

Burn- Typical Duration: 1-2 minutes. Dmg per tick: ~2000, Conditions for taking damage: None. Cool down for skills that apply: None, constant uptime possible. Mass application: easy

Confusion- Typical duration: 5-8 seconds (10 second cap). Dmg per stack: ~300. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 5-8. Conditions for taking damage: Only take dmg on activated skills. Typical Cooldown of skills that apply: 30-60 seconds. Constant uptime NOT possible. Mass application, 1 specific build of 1 class: easy. Not possible otherwise.

Confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game. Stupidity is what makes it useful.

Dmg was nerfed in sPvP because in 1v1 situations it is possible for mesmers to get 10-15 stacks on a single target which was OP for point holding since the enemy couldn’t do anything until help arrived and by then it was too late for them. With the abundance of condition removal and the mass zergs this is a non-issue in WvW.

Thank you for this well thought out and researched post. When I get hit with confusion I don’t panic in the slightest. Sometimes I don’t even cleanse. When I get hit with burning I get scared. I know I gotta cleanse burning or it has a high probability of killing me. Especially since I can’t mitigate it by not attacking. No matter what I do, burning will hurt me badly.

Yes, confusion is definitely the weakest condition. All of the confusion mesmers and engineers out there (and there are a lot of them) just play confusion builds because of how challenging it is for them to succeed with it. What noble souls to put themselves at such a disadvantage against other players.

Pure logic.

Oozo.7856:

Yes, confusion is definitely the weakest condition. All of the confusion mesmers and engineers out there (and there are a lot of them) just play confusion builds because of how challenging it is for them to succeed with it. What noble souls to put themselves at such a disadvantage against other players.

Pure logic.

Be quiet Mr. Epidemic. You need me.

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Why are you even here? Youre not offering any reasonable conversation. Now youre just changing the topic and people will never win trying to discuss things with you. You are the one with the agenda here. and by the way all those shatters are AOE.

so that 12+ and 15+ stacks are on multiple targets….. but it will always be something with you. So we all know youre just trying to hide things and mis inform people so they think confusion is ok and they dont nerf your baby.

you can go now, its ok. Well still have a discussion about it

Look, you clearly have an agenda as well (look back at all your posts). I am in no way trying to hide things or misinform. Everything I’ve posted is based on my 100+ hours of gameplay. I’m here because I have played too many MMO’s that I’ve worked hard on and quite enjoyed only to watch classes that the developers have done an expert job on creating destroyed by nerf witch hunts and forum warriors.

The reality though is that we can argue until we’re blue in the face. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. I think confusion is fine, you think it’s OP. There’s no point in trying to change eachother’s minds.

This discussion is ultimately pointless because it’ll have no effect on what the dev’s decide to do. Anet has proven to be very measured in their balancing patches. We can point fingers all day, but in the end they’ll do what they’re gonna do. You want a nerf, I don’t. In the end they’ll probably be some slight changes, but confusion is here to stay.

It’s not pointless at all, if confusion was “fine” it wouldn’t be nerfed in spvp. The only thing that left it in wvw was that they considered wvw as pve, which it obviously isn’t. Don’t know how people can defend it in its current state when it was already toned down in spvp. and don’t say “less #s blah” its all the same mechanics and classes/skills

As was stated earlier in the thread, in sPVP there are many different skills and abilities that have their damage reduced and their effectiveness deminished, such as retaliation. It’s unfair to single out confusion. sPvP was balanced to make fights last longer in enclosed spaces with less players. It can’t, nor should it be a model for WvW. Yer clinging to the sPvP 50% thing like a drowning man hugging a wood plank. Give it up bud. As to the above poster who said “if it’s the weakest condition in the game then why spec for it?” That’s a good question, worthy of answering. To my mind it’s not the worst dam condition. Bleeding is the worst, then Confusion, then Poison, then Burning as the best. So second worst. The reason to spec for it is because it’s distracting to your targets. No one seriously does it for damage. We do it to add another bewildering aspect to our assault. We distract and befuddle and decoy and weave deception as Mesmers. In addition to our clones ( target distractions ) our invisibility, and our phantoms, confusion is good for a few seconds of “What the hell? I’m hurting myself?” This moment of distraction will often cause foes to back off and stop attacking you or your group for a few seconds. It helps with retreat, it affords you tactical maneuverability, and it interrupts the blur of endless combos your foes are just about to steam roll you with. And it’s worth keeping the damage at a fairly decent level with traits so your foes notice it and don’t ignore it. But I don’t kill with confusion. I kill with phantoms.

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Why are you even here? Youre not offering any reasonable conversation. Now youre just changing the topic and people will never win trying to discuss things with you. You are the one with the agenda here. and by the way all those shatters are AOE.

so that 12+ and 15+ stacks are on multiple targets….. but it will always be something with you. So we all know youre just trying to hide things and mis inform people so they think confusion is ok and they dont nerf your baby.

you can go now, its ok. Well still have a discussion about it

Look, you clearly have an agenda as well (look back at all your posts). I am in no way trying to hide things or misinform. Everything I’ve posted is based on my 100+ hours of gameplay. I’m here because I have played too many MMO’s that I’ve worked hard on and quite enjoyed only to watch classes that the developers have done an expert job on creating destroyed by nerf witch hunts and forum warriors.

The reality though is that we can argue until we’re blue in the face. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. I think confusion is fine, you think it’s OP. There’s no point in trying to change eachother’s minds.

This discussion is ultimately pointless because it’ll have no effect on what the dev’s decide to do. Anet has proven to be very measured in their balancing patches. We can point fingers all day, but in the end they’ll do what they’re gonna do. You want a nerf, I don’t. In the end they’ll probably be some slight changes, but confusion is here to stay.

It’s not pointless at all, if confusion was “fine” it wouldn’t be nerfed in spvp. The only thing that left it in wvw was that they considered wvw as pve, which it obviously isn’t. Don’t know how people can defend it in its current state when it was already toned down in spvp. and don’t say “less #s blah” its all the same mechanics and classes/skills

Don’t know how many times people can point out that confusion was never nerfed in Spvp, but buffed in PVE – And why people keep comparing them is beyond me anyways Spvp and WvW are two totally different animals..

I must say on my mesmer its confusion all the way.

Soooooooooo kittening easy its honestly lame.

dank.3680:

Don’t know how many times people can point out that confusion was never nerfed in Spvp, but buffed in PVE – And why people keep comparing them is beyond me anyways Spvp and WvW are two totally different animals..

I’ll be right there with you pointing out that glass cannon builds have about 130% crit damage in WvW and about 60% crit damage in PvP. Honestly, there are a few things that should probably change about confusion though, like proccing off of unavoidable/useless dodge roll traits and % hp traits.

NevirSayDie.6235:

dank.3680:

Don’t know how many times people can point out that confusion was never nerfed in Spvp, but buffed in PVE – And why people keep comparing them is beyond me anyways Spvp and WvW are two totally different animals..

I’ll be right there with you pointing out that glass cannon builds have about 130% crit damage in WvW and about 60% crit damage in PvP. Honestly, there are a few things that should probably change about confusion though, like proccing off of unavoidable/useless dodge roll traits and % hp traits.

I’ll concede the dodge roll trait thing. I wouldn’t gripe if they did that. I want my targets to be punished for taking action and executing skills, and a dodge feels like it’s not really a skill even if something procs when you do it. Leave the damage alone and I can live with the dodge thing.

Immolator.5640:

I just don’t want to be dazed for 10 or 5 seconds then reapplied the same 5-10 seconds later :/ it makes fighting more than 1 person impossible, and it’s hard in 1v1s anyway, even though I have a counter, aka sit there and hope they don’t have anything that does any damage except for confusion, or try my cleanses, each around 30 sec cd yeah I’ve seen how that ends, and only 1 removes enough conditions to have a chance against confusion! Yay!

Remove proc on dodge so I stand a chance please, or do I have to change my build and not to past 14 in Valor/Honor/whateveritis? forgotten now, but that’s kitten :P I can’t attack through it or anything because guardians + low health pool + toughness being completely useless against it = very vulnerable guardian. Lemme dodge kittenit! :’( </3

Actually it’s worse than a daze, because in a daze you can actually dodge…

From the perspective of shatter confusion mesmers (becuase if you lose to a glamour mesmer in a duel…..lol):

Confusion from shatters has base duration of 3 seconds. Most condition mesmers will be running +73% confusion duration from traits and food. That means confusion will typically on last a maximum of 5.25 seconds. If you completely fail to dodge the shatters, you will have 12 stacks of confusion on you. Meanwhile, the mesmer cannot do much damage to you because condition specced mesmers hit like wet noodles outside of confusion. If you wait the 5.25 seconds without cleansing it, you will absolutely still be alive so long as you don’t spam your abilities.

Oh, and your cleanses are on a 30 second cooldown are they? Guess what? Cry of Frustration is on a 30 second cooldown too, and that is responsible for 8 of those stacks of confusion.

The only other significant source of confusion of a mesmer is the scepter #3 ability, Confusing Images. It has a 3 second cast time and shoots a bright purple beam at you and can be avoided by walking around the mesmer because the beam does not follow the target well. It applies 5 stacks of confusion over the 3 second cast time at a base duration of 5 seconds. + Condition duration brings the duration up to 8.5 seconds.

You have several options here to avoid Confusing images:

1. Walk around or through the mesmer, the target is likely to drop.
2. If there is terrain around, try to LoS the beam.
3. Dodge.
4. Interrupt the mesmer.
5. Cleanse the confusion.
6. Wait out the confusion. Scepter autoattacks are power based with a low damage modifier. The confusion mesmer also only has about 1000 power. You will not take significant damage.

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.

1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.

Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

Acelerion.6820:

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.

1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.

Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

someone being honest, lets all +1 this

people can bring up any argument they want, try to refute it with any argument they want. If you have fought alot of really good mesmers, you know just how lop sided it can be. The only people who can defend it are people running those specs that dont want it to get brought down. They just discredit the people who bring up ideas like this as “bad” or that we have no idea what we are talking about.

The problem is that ANET didnt balanced WVW around the same levels as Spvp, because honestly, why shouldnt they? wvw DOES NOT NEED 80%+ crit damage, nor does it need all these consumables for super long cond durations. Its a joke and its gotten way out of hand with all this ascended gear constantly just adding even more damage

CrassBippy.4619:

Acelerion.6820:

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.

1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.

Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

someone being honest, lets all +1 this

people can bring up any argument they want, try to refute it with any argument they want. If you have fought alot of really good mesmers, you know just how lop sided it can be. The only people who can defend it are people running those specs that dont want it to get brought down. They just discredit the people who bring up ideas like this as “bad” or that we have no idea what we are talking about.

The problem is that ANET didnt balanced WVW around the same levels as Spvp, because honestly, why shouldnt they? wvw DOES NOT NEED 80%+ crit damage, nor does it need all these consumables for super long cond durations. Its a joke and its gotten way out of hand with all this ascended gear constantly just adding even more damage

So now you want to nerf all crit damage too for every class? Out of curiosity, oh crusader against confusion, what class do you main? I’m willing to bet thief. Thieves hate Mesmers because we are their natural predator. Thieves like to go unchecked and kill at will. Confusion messes up their light speed combos. Thus the resentment. Every class needs a counter of some kind for balance. As to the above poster, again, the 1700 number is probably a single target, unobstructed stack. What that means is that the Mesmer dumped every ability they have on the target. This is impossible to do large scale against a Zerg. Believe me, I’ve tried. I did some more tests today just to test your theories out. The data just doesn’t support your claim. You can only get 2-3 stacks against large groups. More like 300-400 a tick. Single target dump of all abilities can yield a higher number but it requires full three clone shatter. Most clones never make it past the line of AOE and death in front of a big group because they have such low health. So there goes all their confusion. Which leaves glams. Each glam delivers 1-2 stacks ( on blind) 2 more if the targets run out of the AOE and you’ve traited for that. That’s it. Good luck getting that stack up. Scepter range won’t cut into a large group. Plus, even at full dump of all abilities, yer basically helpless after the target cleanses because of all the cool downs. Sorry bud, that fish is three days old. I ain’t buyin’ it.

Now let’s say for argument sake, that you’re 1v1 and you manage to stack enough single target confusion dump with every ability you have on your foe. And let’s say it does hit 1744 (I’ve never got that high but I’ll trust the random poster above). And let’s say that foe hits… say 4 abilities during the duration. That’s 6,976 on a SINGLE target. On my Engineer I can toss grenade barrage and hit 5 targets with static discharge for a total of 9k instantly. Don’t get me started on the burst potential of Elementalists. How is this confusion number unfair and nerfable? especially if it’s impossible to get that kind of damage against a larger group? Riddle me that?

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Acelerion.6820:

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.

1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.

Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

someone being honest, lets all +1 this

people can bring up any argument they want, try to refute it with any argument they want. If you have fought alot of really good mesmers, you know just how lop sided it can be. The only people who can defend it are people running those specs that dont want it to get brought down. They just discredit the people who bring up ideas like this as “bad” or that we have no idea what we are talking about.

The problem is that ANET didnt balanced WVW around the same levels as Spvp, because honestly, why shouldnt they? wvw DOES NOT NEED 80%+ crit damage, nor does it need all these consumables for super long cond durations. Its a joke and its gotten way out of hand with all this ascended gear constantly just adding even more damage

So now you want to nerf all crit damage too for every class? Out of curiosity, oh crusader against confusion, what class do you main? I’m willing to bet thief. Thieves hate Mesmers because we are their natural predator. Thieves like to go unchecked and kill at will. Confusion messes up their light speed combos. Thus the resentment. Every class needs a counter of some kind for balance. As to the above poster, again, the 1700 number is probably a single target, unobstructed stack. What that means is that the Mesmer dumped every ability they have on the target. This is impossible to do large scale against a Zerg. Believe me, I’ve tried. I did some more tests today just to test your theories out. The data just doesn’t support your claim. You can only get 2-3 stacks against large groups. More like 300-400 a tick. Single target dump of all abilities can yield a higher number but it requires full three clone shatter. Most clones never make it past the line of AOE and death in front of a big group because they have such low health. So there goes all their confusion. Which leaves glams. Each glam delivers 1-2 stacks ( on blind) 2 more if the targets run out of the AOE and you’ve traited for that. That’s it. Good luck getting that stack up. Scepter range won’t cut into a large group. Plus, even at full dump of all abilities, yer basically helpless after the target cleanses because of all the cool downs. Sorry bud, that fish is three days old. I ain’t buyin’ it.

Now let’s say for argument sake, that you’re 1v1 and you manage to stack enough single target confusion dump with every ability you have on your foe. And let’s say it does hit 1744 (I’ve never got that high but I’ll trust the random poster above). And let’s say that foe hits… say 4 abilities during the duration. That’s 6,976 over a 2 second period on a SINGLE target. On my Engineer I can toss grenade barrage and hit 5 targets with static discharge for a total of 9k instantly. Don’t get me started on the burst potential of Elementalists. How is this confusion number unfair and nerfable? especially if it’s impossible to get that kind of damage against a larger group? Riddle me that?

Just got hit for 1975 with only 5 stacks of confusion on me in WvW. look at my screenshot, I easily hit 12 stacks of confusion and still had Every one of my weapon skills off cooldown, and a utility left. So dont try to do that talk.

I main a warrior, where I can easily have 2 remove all conditions, plus 3 single cond removals. so yeah, go on.

The thing you fail to realize, is mesmers arent even having to build into cond damage, they can do power crit, and still get a ton of confusion damage. By your logic, its ridiculous damage on 1 target (multiple since they are AOE but ill play along) so its ok?

Why does it matter vs a large group? My hammer warrior hits maybe 3 targets at once? and he can murder large groups…. hell i can use a rifle build without piercing shots and still murder in WvW. a single target or large groups does not matter, the skill itself is what can be broken or not

To get hit for 1975 with 5 stacks on confusion in WvW requires 1767 Condition Damage. That’s about as much as it’s possible to get. It certainly does require “building into cond damage”.

greyblue.4962:

To get hit for 1975 with 5 stacks on confusion in WvW requires 1767 Condition Damage. That’s about as much as it’s possible to get. It certainly does require “building into cond damage”.

Actually the fotm build is engis that run around with ~2500-2600 con. damage, as well as 2100 power. Dodge that toolkit 5.

If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300.

If I had the choice of which conditions I would cleanse first (depending on which toon I’m playing on of course) burning and chill would be miles ahead of confusion.

But thats just me.

Entropy.4732:

So now you want to nerf all crit damage too for every class? Out of curiosity, oh crusader against confusion, what class do you main? I’m willing to bet thief. Thieves hate Mesmers because we are their natural predator. Thieves like to go unchecked and kill at will. Confusion messes up their light speed combos. Thus the resentment.

I think this sums up alot of it to be honest. Confusion is a natural thief counter for sure.

i use only elementalist and mesmer and i was one of the first to say confusion is OP in www

How many confusion can you stack?

Dunno just use your feedback field and have your zerg get their chaos armor/chaos projectile or whatever…..

After that?
No problem just use chaos storm…
And after
repeat with TW

now you have mesmer that is not actively stacking confusion….all the zerg using the field will..and necros too

But lets just see mesmer who used fields….he didn t stack any confusion so he did 0 dmg….its fine then! (and msmer could use fields on his own).

would you be fine putting a cap on chaos storm, feedback and TW fields?

i would do great with it…maybe with them counting only for owner would be perfect, you don t get any nerf.

Woudl you be fine?

LordByron.8369:

i use only elementalist and mesmer and i was one of the first to say confusion is OP in www

How many confusion can you stack?

Dunno just use your feedback field and have your zerg get their chaos armor/chaos projectile or whatever…..

After that?
No problem just use chaos storm…
And after
repeat with TW

now you have mesmer that is not actively stack confusion….all the zerg using the field will..and necros too

But lets just see mesmer who used fields….he didn t stack any confusion so he did 0 dmg….its fine then!

Chaos armor is great but terrible in zergs. I’d rather be blasting water.

The confusion stacking on you see in zergs is from Glamour fields, not Ethereal. That’s why it’s called Glamour mesmer.

the point is..
Mesmer are too strong against zergs.
I saw a really good guild using glamour mesmers able to whipe 2 zergs of opposing server 3 times in a row.

Now they were really good the deserved the first whipe for sure…
But not 3 in a row for sure.

Tier 1 Deso (the strong guild) vs sfr and viz…1 month ago…
I followed them all day ttrying to understand how they were playing…..and being from sfr (logged with an ele at that time with so many cleansing you couldn t count) i can easily say that there was no counter to that.

They didn t even had so many mesmers…..

Low numbers of Glamour is not effective if we’re talking about 30v30ish. You need to be running 5-6ish mesmers, and then it is strong but exploitable and takes movement/baiting.

The greatest weakness of Glamour is without a doubt that you’re using relatively long cooldown utilities offensively. If you bait glamour to blow their load, back off, and then push in, those 5-6 mesmers are effectively useless with their utilities on cooldown.

Glamour stacking is very strong against uncoordinated groups, but can really be exploited by equally competent groups, and is straight countered by certain comps/playstyles like a ranged well necro centric group. Really any ranged/cleansing/zoning based group that doesn’t rush into you blindly and keep pressing buttons.

You don’t see Glamour stacking (defined as 20% or more of the comp) in competitive matchups by guilds that focus on 20v20+ for very good reasons. AVTR on FA are the only ones I’ve seen, and they mopped up pubs but were very beatable when it was a mainly mumble group fighting them.

Pinko.2076:

If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/62321/gw001.jpg
That’s with full exotic rabid gear (+condition damage major, minor toughness) with runes of the undead (+condition damage), 30 in illusions (+300 condition damage), exquisite chrysocola jewels (+condition damage major) and chaotic transference trait (5% of toughness added to condition damage, not in illusions but in chaos tree btw). Weapons: +condition damage major.
Will be slightly more with ascended gear.

With tuning crystal und veggie pizza, it’s ~1600 condition damage. Didn’t pick the most expensive versions but the second highest one, the difference is negligible though.

With 25 stacks from sigil of corruption, it’s 1850 condition damage.

From there, at least another dozen of might stacks is required to get to 2300 condition damage.

Is some of the condition damage not displayed correctly in the stats window or what exactly will I have to do to reach 2300 condition damage just by gearing "specifically"?

PS: with that setup, all normal attacks do little to no damage. Even the weapons that are focused on conditions require a lot of power. It’s strictly a confusion build. Mesmers aren’t really good at stacking up other conditions, if we go for bleeds, a much higher crit rate is required and we’re still inferior compared to other classes. Effective poisoning or burning capabilities: laughable.
You could go for carrion (power/vitality/condition damage) gear instead of rabid (precision/toughness/condition damage) gear. Which actually reduces the condition damage because you lose toughness, plus it makes you a lot more prone to direct damage and pretty much removes any crit chance, reducing the effectiveness of the power increase.

Acelerion.6820:

Berzerker/Knight mesmer with 300 condi due to spec and condition damage stacks.
1744 a tick followed with some glass cannon dps.
Its not just pure condition mesmers that use confusion to their advantage.

That required 10 stacks of confusion. You’ve probably traited illusionary retribution and hit the enemy with cry of frustration and/or illusionary persona plus another shatter. Anyway, considering the damage you deal with a full zerker build, mind wrack, mental torment and illusionary persona when it crits, which it does all the time when specced accordingly, confusion damage is laughable compared to the burst damage and havok two mind wracks (at half the cooldown of cry of frustration btw) cause, unless the opponent is a mindless button smasher. And if the enemy is smart, it does no damage at all. In your assumed spec, confusion wears off after 3s anyway.

Again, confusion offers some nice short time stopping power and absolutely facemelts unaware enemies that have no clue whatsoever. But that’s it, pretty much.

Oozo.7856:

Yes, confusion is definitely the weakest condition. All of the confusion mesmers and engineers out there _(and there are a lot of them)_ just play confusion builds because of how challenging it is for them to succeed with it. What noble souls to put themselves at such a disadvantage against other players.

Pure logic.

I’m playing it because it’s the only efficient, reliable and safe way for a mesmer to tag for loot bags quickly in WvW. Blame ANet for having implemented a system that doesn’t allow you to play a support role if you need badges (which you always need).

If engineers or op when it comes to confusion, they have to be reworked. That doesn’t make confusion op in general though.

And no, once again because some people seem to like that argument: you cannot stack lots of confusion on lots of people from long range. Glamour builds don’t work that way, unless people are actually dumb enough to constantly run through the fields and the mesmer is traited for both confusing enchantments and blinding befuddlement, which is an absoutely selfcrippling zerg bomb only build. Any other class that has access to strong AE spells, like eles, can do way better than that while still being absolutely viable in 1vs1 and PvE.
When a mesmer applies high stacks of confusion to single or few targets (not zergs), he wastes several of his longer cooldowns and can’t do much after that.
Illusionary images is easily avoidable, so is confusion applied by combo fields. Shatters are dangerous but don’t last long and can be avoided either, the creation of illusions as well as the actual shatter. I’d rather worry about those zerker mind wrackers, they hit real hard. That’s pretty much where the real high stacks come from.

/e: the forum insists on underlining even when I disable textile, that’s not intended...

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Bleed- Typical Duration: 10-20 seconds. Dmg per stack: ~150. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 10-15, conditions for taking damage: none, typical cooldown of skills that apply: 0. Mass application: easy

Burn- Typical Duration: 1-2 minutes. Dmg per tick: ~2000, Conditions for taking damage: None. Cool down for skills that apply: None, constant uptime possible. Mass application: easy

Confusion- Typical duration: 5-8 seconds (10 second cap). Dmg per stack: ~300. Number of stacks easily obtainable: 5-8. Conditions for taking damage: Only take dmg on activated skills. Typical Cooldown of skills that apply: 30-60 seconds. Constant uptime NOT possible. Mass application, 1 specific build of 1 class: easy. Not possible otherwise.

Confusion is one of the weakest conditions in the game. Stupidity is what makes it useful.

Dmg was nerfed in sPvP because in 1v1 situations it is possible for mesmers to get 10-15 stacks on a single target which was OP for point holding since the enemy couldn’t do anything until help arrived and by then it was too late for them. With the abundance of condition removal and the mass zergs this is a non-issue in WvW.

ty, ty and ty again for clearing this up. You guys wanna berf confusion?well then all the other conditions should be set to the same level and cooldowns!

Eliyahu.1467:

Immolator.5640:

I just don’t want to be dazed for 10 or 5 seconds then reapplied the same 5-10 seconds later :/ it makes fighting more than 1 person impossible, and it’s hard in 1v1s anyway, even though I have a counter, aka sit there and hope they don’t have anything that does any damage except for confusion, or try my cleanses, each around 30 sec cd yeah I’ve seen how that ends, and only 1 removes enough conditions to have a chance against confusion! Yay!

Remove proc on dodge so I stand a chance please, or do I have to change my build and not to past 14 in Valor/Honor/whateveritis? forgotten now, but that’s kitten :P I can’t attack through it or anything because guardians + low health pool + toughness being completely useless against it = very vulnerable guardian. Lemme dodge kittenit! :’( </3

Actually it’s worse than a daze, because in a daze you can actually dodge…

From the perspective of shatter confusion mesmers (becuase if you lose to a glamour mesmer in a duel…..lol):

Confusion from shatters has base duration of 3 seconds. Most condition mesmers will be running +73% confusion duration from traits and food. That means confusion will typically on last a maximum of 5.25 seconds. If you completely fail to dodge the shatters, you will have 12 stacks of confusion on you. Meanwhile, the mesmer cannot do much damage to you because condition specced mesmers hit like wet noodles outside of confusion. If you wait the 5.25 seconds without cleansing it, you will absolutely still be alive so long as you don’t spam your abilities.

Oh, and your cleanses are on a 30 second cooldown are they? Guess what? Cry of Frustration is on a 30 second cooldown too, and that is responsible for 8 of those stacks of confusion.

The only other significant source of confusion of a mesmer is the scepter #3 ability, Confusing Images. It has a 3 second cast time and shoots a bright purple beam at you and can be avoided by walking around the mesmer because the beam does not follow the target well. It applies 5 stacks of confusion over the 3 second cast time at a base duration of 5 seconds. + Condition duration brings the duration up to 8.5 seconds.

You have several options here to avoid Confusing images:

1. Walk around or through the mesmer, the target is likely to drop.
2. If there is terrain around, try to LoS the beam.
3. Dodge.
4. Interrupt the mesmer.
5. Cleanse the confusion.
6. Wait out the confusion. Scepter autoattacks are power based with a low damage modifier. The confusion mesmer also only has about 1000 power. You will not take significant damage.

All of these require you and the Mesmer to be the only person attacking you… If you’ve ever been in WvW, you will know that is almost never the case… On top of that, can we stop saying ‘Cleanse’ is viable? Because it most definitely isn’t, seeing as confusion is always always always removed last, so technically I only have one capable condition removal, which is on a 40 second cool down and is also a heal, which makes it oh so viable to save for each confusion stack -.- and that’s only if there aren’t 4-5+ conditions on me, if so then it won’t work.

I don’t know how you see that standing doing absolutely nothing is ever an option in a firefight… only an idiot would do that when fighting 2-3 enemies or even one, that’s why dazes and stuns only work for 2 seconds at most, and are insta-removable by an actual counter, aka the stun-break… furthermore these can be completely negated via stability, which is what makes them reasonable. Also the entire idea that people have dodges to save especially for shatter or something in the middle of a fight is incredibly flawed and a bit stupid.

Iruwen.3164:

Pinko.2076:

If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/62321/gw001.jpg
That’s with full exotic rabid gear (condition damage major, minor toughness) with runes of the undead (condition damage), 30 in illusions (300 condition damage), exquisite chrysocola jewels (condition damage major) and chaotic transference trait (5% of toughness added to condition damage, not in illusions but in chaos tree btw). Weapons: +condition damage major.
Will be slightly more with ascended gear.

With tuning crystal und veggie pizza, it’s ~1600 condition damage. Didn’t pick the most expensive versions but the second highest one, the difference is negligible though.

With 25 stacks from sigil of corruption, it’s 1850 condition damage.

From there, at least another dozen of might stacks is required to get to 2300 condition damage.

Is some of the condition damage not displayed correctly in the stats window or what exactly will I have to do to reach 2300 condition damage just by gearing “specifically”?

We run an hgh/prybar engi and this is pretty typical. They are going to achieve much higher condition dmage than a mesmer ever will.

As I said, if balancing is required for engis, that doesn’t make confusion op in general. Pry bar is an (almost) instant five stacks compared to the three second channel of illusionary images for example, I thought that would be balanced by the skill’s short range, but considering the high amounts of possible condition damage if what you say is true, there may be some balancing required. Pretty possible that people are also associating confusion with mesmers only and don’t realize that they’re actually blown up by an engi.

CrassBippy.4619:

Just got hit for 1975 with only 5 stacks of confusion on me in WvW. look at my screenshot, I easily hit 12 stacks of confusion and still had Every one of my weapon skills off cooldown, and a utility left. So dont try to do that talk.

I main a warrior, where I can easily have 2 remove all conditions, plus 3 single cond removals. so yeah, go on.

The thing you fail to realize, is mesmers arent even having to build into cond damage, they can do power crit, and still get a ton of confusion damage. By your logic, its ridiculous damage on 1 target (multiple since they are AOE but ill play along) so its ok?

Why does it matter vs a large group? My hammer warrior hits maybe 3 targets at once? and he can murder large groups…. hell i can use a rifle build without piercing shots and still murder in WvW. a single target or large groups does not matter, the skill itself is what can be broken or not

I have a mesmer, thief and warrior.

I play my warrior the most now. Confusion nerf isn’t going to make it so you have an advantage against mesmers or going to make it so that you can kill a decent mesmer anyway.

Im running -65% condition duration on my warrior and confusion is hardly what kills me against mesmers or engi’s. Its the access to vigor and stun breaks. GS mesmer is much easier for me to fight than sword/sword and staff. I usually dont have much of a problem with GS mesmers.

Its just a class loss if you want to call it that. It can be done but its stacked in the mesmers favor against a warrior. They can kite for days and have the most stun breakers in the game. As a warrior you can’t really kill what you can catch even if they don’t have any invis skill equipped. You have to eat the clone damage, the cripples, the vunlerability etc. Unless you run some rifle or bow build there just isn’t much you can do. The confusion from Engi isn’t a problem for me its the kiting ability and stun/invul they have access to.

My opinion confusion is fine I only play my mesmer for PvE. I even gave my warrior my mesmers twilight. Grab some lemongrass -40% duration food and come back. Trust me that +100 precision and +10% critical damage food you are probably running is not as much of a dps increase as you think it is.

Iruwen.3164:

Pinko.2076:

If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/62321/gw001.jpg
That’s with full exotic rabid gear (condition damage major, minor toughness) with runes of the undead (condition damage), 30 in illusions (300 condition damage), exquisite chrysocola jewels (condition damage major) and chaotic transference trait (5% of toughness added to condition damage, not in illusions but in chaos tree btw). Weapons: +condition damage major.
Will be slightly more with ascended gear.

With tuning crystal und veggie pizza, it’s ~1600 condition damage. Didn’t pick the most expensive versions but the second highest one, the difference is negligible though.

With 25 stacks from sigil of corruption, it’s 1850 condition damage.

From there, at least another dozen of might stacks is required to get to 2300 condition damage.

Is some of the condition damage not displayed correctly in the stats window or what exactly will I have to do to reach 2300 condition damage just by gearing “specifically”?

I made a build on a pve calculator just now that’s 2350ish. Ascended gear can be used in PvE. Plus 10% from Undead + chaos, food, utility, stacks. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong, but I can link you if you want.

My point was still that the condition damage cap is way, way above 1700, and engineers go much farther past that than mesmers because they can maintain 25 might stacks on their own.

As a glamour mesmer, here are some ways I think they could balance it and I think appease most people:
1) Have it only stack to a lower amount
2) Have the duration then stack instead of the magnitude past the max
3) Get rid of it activating on dodges/trait skills

I think especially the last one most mesmers wouldn’t have a problem with. I think theres another issue: either it needs to be like other conditions, or not. If it’s not treated like all the other conditions, then it should be changed accordingly. But I definitely think most WvW mesmers wouldn’t mind too much if they got rid of it on dodge/trait skills.

Immolator.5640:

Eliyahu.1467:

Immolator.5640:

I just don’t want to be dazed for 10 or 5 seconds then reapplied the same 5-10 seconds later :/ it makes fighting more than 1 person impossible, and it’s hard in 1v1s anyway, even though I have a counter, aka sit there and hope they don’t have anything that does any damage except for confusion, or try my cleanses, each around 30 sec cd yeah I’ve seen how that ends, and only 1 removes enough conditions to have a chance against confusion! Yay!

Remove proc on dodge so I stand a chance please, or do I have to change my build and not to past 14 in Valor/Honor/whateveritis? forgotten now, but that’s kitten :P I can’t attack through it or anything because guardians + low health pool + toughness being completely useless against it = very vulnerable guardian. Lemme dodge kittenit! :’( </3

Actually it’s worse than a daze, because in a daze you can actually dodge…

From the perspective of shatter confusion mesmers (becuase if you lose to a glamour mesmer in a duel…..lol):

Confusion from shatters has base duration of 3 seconds. Most condition mesmers will be running +73% confusion duration from traits and food. That means confusion will typically on last a maximum of 5.25 seconds. If you completely fail to dodge the shatters, you will have 12 stacks of confusion on you. Meanwhile, the mesmer cannot do much damage to you because condition specced mesmers hit like wet noodles outside of confusion. If you wait the 5.25 seconds without cleansing it, you will absolutely still be alive so long as you don’t spam your abilities.

Oh, and your cleanses are on a 30 second cooldown are they? Guess what? Cry of Frustration is on a 30 second cooldown too, and that is responsible for 8 of those stacks of confusion.

The only other significant source of confusion of a mesmer is the scepter #3 ability, Confusing Images. It has a 3 second cast time and shoots a bright purple beam at you and can be avoided by walking around the mesmer because the beam does not follow the target well. It applies 5 stacks of confusion over the 3 second cast time at a base duration of 5 seconds. + Condition duration brings the duration up to 8.5 seconds.

You have several options here to avoid Confusing images:

1. Walk around or through the mesmer, the target is likely to drop.
2. If there is terrain around, try to LoS the beam.
3. Dodge.
4. Interrupt the mesmer.
5. Cleanse the confusion.
6. Wait out the confusion. Scepter autoattacks are power based with a low damage modifier. The confusion mesmer also only has about 1000 power. You will not take significant damage.

All of these require you and the Mesmer to be the only person attacking you… If you’ve ever been in WvW, you will know that is almost never the case… On top of that, can we stop saying ‘Cleanse’ is viable? Because it most definitely isn’t, seeing as confusion is always always always removed last, so technically I only have one capable condition removal, which is on a 40 second cool down and is also a heal, which makes it oh so viable to save for each confusion stack -.- and that’s only if there aren’t 4-5+ conditions on me, if so then it won’t work.

I don’t know how you see that standing doing absolutely nothing is ever an option in a firefight… only an idiot would do that when fighting 2-3 enemies or even one, that’s why dazes and stuns only work for 2 seconds at most, and are insta-removable by an actual counter, aka the stun-break… furthermore these can be completely negated via stability, which is what makes them reasonable. Also the entire idea that people have dodges to save especially for shatter or something in the middle of a fight is incredibly flawed and a bit stupid.

Mesmers cannot maintain a ton of different conditions on you unless they have 3 staff clones out. If you have teammates by the way, they should either be using AoE condition removal or, failing that, covering your kitten as you wait for confusion to end.

Also, you don’t stand still, you run, you strafe, you LoS, you use only skills you absolutely need to survive (Blocks, Invulns, Stealths). Using any one of those skills will eat up a significant amount of confusion duration. Then after that period, you’re free to attack the mesmer without fear of the mesmer being able to bring any significant damage until his CDs are up.

Also, not saving your dodges for a shatter when fighting a mesmer is like not saving your dodge for backstab or 100blades — you’re a moron if you don’t.

Confusion by member is meh… As their auto attack dont do as much damage. Conditioner by p/p engineer on the other hand is kitten painful and annoying, since while you are under confusion, the engineer will hurt you alot with their autoattack, due to ttheir high crit

Pinko.2076:

Iruwen.3164:

Pinko.2076:

If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/62321/gw001.jpg
That’s with full exotic rabid gear (condition damage major, minor toughness) with runes of the undead (condition damage), 30 in illusions (300 condition damage), exquisite chrysocola jewels (condition damage major) and chaotic transference trait (5% of toughness added to condition damage, not in illusions but in chaos tree btw). Weapons: +condition damage major.
Will be slightly more with ascended gear.

With tuning crystal und veggie pizza, it’s ~1600 condition damage. Didn’t pick the most expensive versions but the second highest one, the difference is negligible though.

With 25 stacks from sigil of corruption, it’s 1850 condition damage.

From there, at least another dozen of might stacks is required to get to 2300 condition damage.

Is some of the condition damage not displayed correctly in the stats window or what exactly will I have to do to reach 2300 condition damage just by gearing “specifically”?

I made a build on a pve calculator just now that’s 2350ish. Ascended gear can be used in PvE. Plus 10% from Undead + chaos, food, utility, stacks. I don’t know what you’re doing wrong, but I can link you if you want.

My point was still that the condition damage cap is way, way above 1700, and engineers go much farther past that than mesmers because they can maintain 25 might stacks on their own.

You said “If mesmers gear specifically for con. damage, you can get around 2300”, now you say “Plus 10% from Undead + chaos, food, utility, stacks”, so the 2300 are fully buffed, which is a different story. And my point was about mesmers only, thats why I quoted that part. Engineers are a different story, they may have to be reviewed if they can stack confusion easily, also have other conditions available and can additionally stack might. Mesmer options are very limited and random in these regards.

I can imagine confusion 1v1 would be very annoying as it can be stacked rapdily and repeatedly, covered easily, and triggers on basically everything you do. It’s spammed a lot in zergs too but that’s why you’re running with players specced into AOE conditional removals/reversals etc

There is nothing more amusing than watching a player with a pink glow on their head running around spamming 1, hitting nothing more than themselves.

Confusion is a noob kitten killer.

That is all :p

I personally think Mesmers are not suitable with their Mirrors+Confusion to be used in PvP or WvWvW – I would remove the class altogether and use a different one from GW1

I very much hope for a Paragon class in the future. Mesmers as they are now, are just ridiculously overpowered and need to be got rid of.

mesmer overpowered? lmao XDXDXD best joke I ever heard;

backstab a mesmer, he’s dead, immobilize a mesmer, he’s dead. they may be able to do good stuff in duels and such, but they are squishy as kitten, and if they take a bunker build they cant kill anything.

1v1’d a mesmer today, throw bolas+hundred blades and he was downed… and its not the first one.

really, people should stop QQ’ing about everything they dont play and cant kill.

try this:
if you cant kill it, learn and change builds untill you can kill it. if it is indeed OP, once you succeed youre more OP than that class/spec,

as for 1v1: did Anet implement a 1v1 PvP into GW2? don’t think so, so its not a valid thing to complain about in my opinion.

oh wait, forgot to add: fear is OP because I keep killing people by fearing them off cliffs…
oh, as well as knockback,

and ofcourse the guardian CC’s are OP because they can block off a flank that has stability…

not to forget backstab thieves that can backstab for 9K crits (only seen 3 out of 1000 thieves being able to do it)… but endure pain can negate that damage so that is OP as well…

Sickle.6502:

I personally think Mesmers are not suitable with their Mirrors+Confusion to be used in PvP or WvWvW – I would remove the class altogether and use a different one from GW1

I very much hope for a Paragon class in the future. Mesmers as they are now, are just ridiculously overpowered and need to be got rid of.

wow never read more nonsense in a comment like this before.we are not op like that, but yes it needs skill to handle a mesmer and it should be challenging.I mean challenge is what makes this game fun.I play a mesmer and get killed a lot of times too.

Oozo.7856:

Yes, confusion is definitely the weakest condition. All of the confusion mesmers and engineers out there (and there are a lot of them) just play confusion builds because of how challenging it is for them to succeed with it. What noble souls to put themselves at such a disadvantage against other players.

Pure logic.

no u got that wrong. we play confusion only, because it’s the only condition we have and a lot of us like to apply conditions.
What do u want a mesmer to attack u with?
u guys don’t want clones, because u can’t handle it
u want to nerf confusion to the ground, because u can’t handle it
u want to nerf the mesmer pulls (temporal curtain), because u can’t handle it

soo our auto attacks are ridiculously weak, berserkers are broken mostly, we have no other conditions that we can stack, we can’t run away that fast, our invis traits are very very short followed by a huge cooldown, timewarp has been nerfed and is not viable anymore as the cooldown is huuuuge, most of our skills have enurmous cooldowns anyways.

So what do u guys want us to attack u with?Butterflies?…oh wait

If I may chime in with my suggestion.

I would like for confusion stacks to be capped at somewhere between 5 to 10 (I know that’s a big range), with additional stacks adding duration, and glamour cooldowns reduced by about 20~25%. The idea is, fighting a mesmer should generally be “confusing” in both literal and gameplay sense of the word but confusion shouldn’t be spike damage.

(Disclaimer: I have 2 level 80 mesmers).

Sickle.6502:

I personally think Mesmers are not suitable with their Mirrors+Confusion to be used in PvP or WvWvW – I would remove the class altogether and use a different one from GW1

I very much hope for a Paragon class in the future. Mesmers as they are now, are just ridiculously overpowered and need to be got rid of.

they aren’t absurdly OP, it’s just the way confusion works and the duration in wvw that pretty much locks you down. They don’t even need to spec Into cond dmg, just get the all clones give confusion on death and it’s cake.

I, myself a mesmer player think that condition mesmer(half confusion) is pretty strong, with traiting and stuff, i could apply 5-10 stack confusion, with a decent cd, even if u for example failed to hit enemy with confusion, U still have staff(which i believe all of confusion mesmer use) and then, u could basically spawn 3 clones with staff in 6 seconds( 1 dodge roll included), just with (40%+ cond duration) food, i could basically stack 10-15 stack of bleeding and burning and some stack of vuln( including with the help of sharper image trait which inflict bleeding when the clone deal crit dmg, u can get like 48% crit chance or even 50ish with rabid gear and maintenance oil) an also the trait that( grants 1 extra bounces to attack that do bounce) basically i could have my 3 clone and myself an extra bounce of staff auto attack that inflict condition, and i do understand that the enemy cant take 3 bounces with just single attack, it will hit the enemy once, bounce back to us. but with the traiting u could get the last bounce to the enemy, so the condition inflicted is not to be mess with ,except for the slow projectile speed. lets take a look at another skill(Chaos Armor) it grants protection, regen, or swiftness to mesmer when we are getting hit(make us more tankier) and the condition that inflicted to enemy are (Blind,Confusion, Cripple) and with the trait( Blinding also cause confusion) Chaos armor which lasted for 5 sec is my primary source of defensive and contribute a lot to inflicting confusion. so the equation is like 33% u cripple enemy, 33% you cause confusion to enemy and the other 33% u cause blind AND confusion. if blind is not strong enough to counter any GC build, they got an extra confusion on top of it, even 5 stack of confusion can deal like 1900 ish damage, im sure some of them can deal more. Before people QQ on how Chaos armor only last for 5 sec and have like 35 sec cd(but usually people can get it down to like 28 sec thx to -20% staff cd redux), i would add another skill which is chaos storm that grants Aegis, Swiftness or Retal for 3 second and the field lasted either 4 or 5 sec and I usually use the trait that ( grant retal when blocking ) which is quite insane of retal up time. and im not stopping here yet, Chaos Storm have Ethereal combo field, if u put down Chaos Storm + sStaff no 2 which has leap combo finisher, boom another Chaos armor and if its expired i can put my glamour skill feedback or Null field i usually have one of them on my skill slot while glamour mesmer tends to have 2 of them used, so those skill provide ethereal combo field which i can use my leap again to have the chaos armor and yes the Staff no 2 is only 8 sec cd(6 sec when traited which i think everyone does). so yes i dont need to babysit u guys to count. and guess what the enemy which I fought have choices of playing tom and jerry with me and they trying to hit me i got buffs from chaos armor which made me tankier and they could dmg themself because of the confusion, and retalation not to mention the blindness, oh and the clones that could stack 10++ bleeding and a burn and several stack of vuln. usually what they do is just run because i cant kill them since the bleeding from my auto attack dont last long and it travel at low speed projectile so it wont quite reach them, but the problem here is not running against mesmer. but people trying to fight a mesmer~ so yeah i think conf is a bit Overpowered and so does mesmers. maybe thats why there is a lot of cond mesmer after the thieves popullation decreased.

TL;DR: the wall of text there is an example how i pretty much like my mesmer despite its quite strong, then again i dont protect my build thats why its wall of text, i described from one skill to another~ well maybe getting out of topic of discussion, i am sorry for that!

TallDan.6350:

There is nothing more amusing than watching a player with a pink glow on their head running around spamming 1, hitting nothing more than themselves.

Confusion is a noob kitten killer.

That is all :p

Actually, there is nothing funnier than flipping confusion back on a Mesmer and watching them kill themselves with it.

selan.8354:

Oozo.7856:

Yes, confusion is definitely the weakest condition. All of the confusion mesmers and engineers out there (and there are a lot of them) just play confusion builds because of how challenging it is for them to succeed with it. What noble souls to put themselves at such a disadvantage against other players.

Pure logic.

no u got that wrong. we play confusion only, because it’s the only condition we have and a lot of us like to apply conditions.
What do u want a mesmer to attack u with?
u guys don’t want clones, because u can’t handle it
u want to nerf confusion to the ground, because u can’t handle it
u want to nerf the mesmer pulls (temporal curtain), because u can’t handle it

soo our auto attacks are ridiculously weak, berserkers are broken mostly, we have no other conditions that we can stack, we can’t run away that fast, our invis traits are very very short followed by a huge cooldown, timewarp has been nerfed and is not viable anymore as the cooldown is huuuuge, most of our skills have enurmous cooldowns anyways.

So what do u guys want us to attack u with?Butterflies?…oh wait

I’m sorry but you have to be some special kind of bad to complain that mesmers are a weak class.

Confusion is the condition of the month right now.

There are times where I feel like the enemy is made up of mesmers and all I see are clones.

This is life. Not too long ago thieves were favorite WvW class but the numbers seem to have dropped in our tier for the most part.

I have specced my warrior to add confusion on interrupt and I am enjoying the results for the most part. I don’t see many warriors run with kick, bulls charge, and stomp. I have been using them more often lately to break up the zerg balls from the middle and it works. I just wish the other members of the zerg would recognize the tactic and learn to get out of the path of the zerg ball commander and break them from the “neck down” so to speak.

In a one on one, or small group situation, this style of play has worked well for me. Most enemies expect a warrior to burst and run out of gas, but they rarely expect to have 3 or 6 stacks of confusion from me and consequently either damage themselves down to the wire, or just stop attacking which obviously favors a warrior on cool down waiting for those burst skills.

I have run this with the Hammer as well but find it works much better when in a larger group that is somewhat balanced with fewer “selfish” skills and more “group” friendly play. The Hammer is a bit too slow and allows enemies to recover too quickly at times without the support. The interrupts is done properly can quickly make a mess of people that just do not expect it though, the Hammer can give a whole pile of interrupts if the timing is right.

My philosophy is to build my characters in a unique way that the enemy does not expect. They usually have fewer counters available for the unexpected, and no one expects a Confusion Warrior….yet.

Confusion is the Ultimate FEAR!!!!

1. When you get hit with Confusion, you can’t do anything.
2. When you get hit by Confusion, you have to run away.

Ultimate because:

1. It is AOE.
2. Last more than 1 sec.
3. Can re-apply stacks faster than 30 to 90 seconds.

Want to melt a Zerg?

1. A few mesmers running Glamour which should be called a ZAU.

ZAU= Zerg Annihilation Unit

The only efficient (when it comes to the number of stacks) ranged AE confusion for mesmers is Cry of Frustration with Illusionary Retribution, which applies only six stacks of confusion. Since the clones are likely to die in AE in a zerg before reaching their targets, glamour builds are more reliable. If you’re not constantly crossing glamour fields affected by Confusing Enchantments, which you should watch out for, we’re stuck with Blinding Befuddlement, which only applies one stack per field with three fields on relatively long cooldowns. People can retreat and cleanse easily in zergs, which reduces its efficiency. The only reason many people use it actually is a lack of other reliable AE options for mesmers combined with the stupid loot tagging system. Those who really know how to play a confusion build properly are a minority, and then it’s not zerg busting.

PS: if you’re worried about confusion, try a Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup and Runes of Melandru or Hoelbrak. Reduces condition duration to a degree that pretty much makes it irrelevant. Plus it works on all other conditions too.