Guild Wars 2

Ok, I just had this crazy idea and I can’t yet decide if it’s utterly stupid or if it might be interesting :

You don’t receive anymore tick points for a structure if you held it for more than 8 hours.

I know. It goes completely against everything that WvW is designed for. Usually, you want to upgrade / siege your structure and keep them for as long as possible. But!

I want to know how do you think that this would influence the match up. Tell me

Would you consider adding the following ideas to your list?

World Globe Rank & Scoring

Current

• Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
• Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned

Not Implemented

• Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades

• Per Cap – Objectives need to be claimed to earn Flip Points

• Per Cap – Objective Flip Points earned scale in relation to a Guild’s Home WvW Rank. More points are earned if Server is Higher Rank. Less points earned if Server is Lower Rank

• Weekly PPT Cap of 25,000 – 100,000 Points for each Server. ANet to adjust value to keep runaway scores from happening

• Weekly PPT Cap Adds Weight to Rank that scales to Server that earn it first

• 1st World to “Rank-Up” – Status changed to “Completed” & their PPT Score Stops Increasing.

• Remaining Worlds then allowed to continue PPT Scoring until they reach their “Rank-Up”.

Your truly,
Diku

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – wvg world vs globes

Wouldn’t this PPT cap basically kill WvW for some servers once they hit the cap? This would likely help out some servers but others where they have people that enjoy "borderland mom like activities (defending) I think it would essentially have their players not log in towards the end of the week. I don’t disagree that something needs to change but not sure that this would help keep the population going just like many of the other suggestions that Anet has produced, i think that it would hurt more than it helps.

Alora Arrowstorm.1268:

Wouldn’t this PPT cap basically kill WvW for some servers once they hit the cap? This would likely help out some servers but others where they have people that enjoy "borderland mom like activities (defending) I think it would essentially have their players not log in towards the end of the week. I don’t disagree that something needs to change but not sure that this would help keep the population going just like many of the other suggestions that Anet has produced, i think that it would hurt more than it helps.

•Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned

Earn Points through the Per Kill mechanic.

Off the top of my head…and not really thinking this thoroughly through….

Unbalanced Matches will then need to switch to guerrila tactics to earn Points by Per Kill…

Worlds that are outnumbered can at least force their bully Worlds to give them breathing space if they want to continue to have oppontents to fight against.

(The Matrix – Farming Humans) <—- For some reason…this came to mind.

If Glicko works properly…then a Lower Tier server will hopefully rise & replace the over-bullied World that is refusing to fight you.

Well…that’s the intention, but not sure if that would work…given all the manual manipulation going on.

There’s really a better solution, but the above is only a Band-Aid solution at best.

We can only work with parts taken from the whole picture of WvW.

It would be nicer to design with the whole picture of WvW in mind.

Yours truly,
Diku

All I see is a movement to more blobbing with the increased PPK. I don’t really see the increase as a benefit to making guerilla tactics. People won’t want to fight outmanned since you will hurt PPK. You can see that in many of the servers already WvW have moved from smaller group fights to blob v blob even in the non T1 servers. Servers that don’t follow that are basically mowed down until they finally follow suite.

Perhaps that is what people want – blob v blob. That is not my preferred game play. I think if we want to get away from blob v blob there has to be incentive to do so and awarding PPK ranges (based on the fight ratio 1:2 , 1:3, etc) . You could change it to not have PPT but then there is no real reason to keep towers etc. Keeps and garri would still provide benefit in the form of waypoints.

PPT is only important at reset & whoever reaches the Weekly Rank Up for PPT Cap.

If PPT is Weekly Capped. There is nothing to increase score except by killing players.

Players on Outnumbered Worlds aren’t stupid.

They will Stop playing until things cool down.

Big Zergs waiting for the tiny group of defenders to come out…Don’t earn any PPT while waiting.

Fair weather players get bored & will eventually leave…at least that’s the hope.

Then the more hardcore WvW players will continue to play in the hopes they can fight the tiny group of defenders when they show up.

If Glicko works properly…then a Lower Tier server will hopefully rise & replace the over-bullied World that is refusing to fight you.

Blob vs Blob should gain points through Per Kill mechanic…imho

Above is a Band-Aid illusion for creating Balanced & Fair Matches by using scoring mechanics to change your perception…it’s really not the best solution.

I still feel the fix needs to be Player Driven…yet…ANet Controlled.

Yours truly,
Diku

If you want to drive everyone to continue blob v blob then the current mechanic and many of your proposals will influence it to continue. There is and will continue to be no real reason not to blob. And it will cause people to play less since there will be little reason to defend things once you have reached your ppt cap. So the limited number of defenders will continue to shrink and then the server that hasn’t reached their PPT for the week will be left to pounding doors. But if you enjoy killing keep/tower lords then ya that will be there for you.
If you did –
1st World to “Rank-Up” – Status changed to “Completed” & their PPT Score Stops Increasing. – like you are suggesting it would be like when you are in a keep hoping pugs will get out of the cap circle so you can draw fights. Servers would beg their pugs not to cap so they aren’t the first. You would have to essentially put a cap to all 3 servers to make this work in my opinion

Alora Arrowstorm.1268:

Wouldn’t this PPT cap basically kill WvW for some servers once they hit the cap? This would likely help out some servers but others where they have people that enjoy "borderland mom like activities (defending) I think it would essentially have their players not log in towards the end of the week. I don’t disagree that something needs to change but not sure that this would help keep the population going just like many of the other suggestions that Anet has produced, i think that it would hurt more than it helps.

That’s pretty good feedback. To tell the truth I don’t think it would be a good idea, I’m just curious about what the community think such a change would create.

Your concern about the home bl defenders is a valid one.

I’m kinda wondering if everyone would enter a state a paralysis where no one want to flip anything in fear that the enemy server would gain more points by back capping.

Alora Arrowstorm.1268:

If you want to drive everyone to continue blob v blob then the current mechanic…

Snip 8<

You would have to essentially put a cap to all 3 servers to make this work in my opinion

• Agree…it’s the current mechanic. Specifically the current Fight Model that fully encourages blob vs blob. My proposal in this thread…is only a Band-Aid illusion…that was taken from a bigger solution…that is missing many parts that would provide a better long term solution…instead of this Band-Aid…imho.

• Remaining Worlds then allowed to continue PPT Scoring until they reach their “Rank-Up”.

Gudradain.3892:

Snip 8<

I’m kinda wondering if everyone would enter a state a paralysis where no one want to flip anything in fear that the enemy server would gain more points by back capping.

Worlds that are being Bullied will stop playing.

However, the Weekly PPT Cap allows the Builied World to Cross the same finish line that the other 2 Worlds Cross over to “Win” their Weekly PPT Cap.

If Glicko works properly…then a Lower Tier server will hopefully rise & replace the Over-Bullied World that wants to get out of their Higher Tier Hell Hole…

Worlds that are evenly matched will be encouraged to fight each other…toe to toe.

Blob vs Blob are then encouraged to gain points off each other through Points Per Kill instead…taking Structures to taunt each other into fighting for Kills.

This is still not the best solution…the above is a partial solution…taken from a larger design…so it’s a bit lacking in depth…there’s a better Long Term solution…imho

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – wvg world vs globes

So basically don’t flip anything on an enemy server if you don’t want them to gain PPT?

I’m probably missing something but this idea feels problematic for the WvW structure.

sephiroth.4217:

So basically don’t flip anything on an enemy server if you don’t want them to gain PPT?

I’m probably missing something but this idea feels problematic for the WvW structure.

Current

• Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
• Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned

Flip points are in “Addition” to the Normal PPT points that are earned every 15 minutes.

Proposing…All 3 Worlds earn PPT points until they reach a Weekly PPT Cap…at that point…they All Stop earning PPT points.

This allows Outmatched Worlds to at least “Win” their Weekly PPT Cap if they keep trying.

Every World in a Match has a chance to be a Hero & “Win” their Weekly PPT Cap trophy! We’re all Winners…and we all deserve to Win!!!

Only way to increase World score after reaching the Weekly PPT Cap…is by the Per Kill Point mechanic.

This is really a Band-Aid illusion…to create a Balanced & Fair Match-Up.

There’s a better solution than what I’m proposing in this particular thread…imho

Gudradain.3892:

Ok, I just had this crazy idea and I can’t yet decide if it’s utterly stupid or if it might be interesting :

You don’t receive anymore tick points for a structure if you held it for more than 8 hours.

I know. It goes completely against everything that WvW is designed for. Usually, you want to upgrade / siege your structure and keep them for as long as possible. But!

I want to know how do you think that this would influence the match up. Tell me

Well its stupid because you missed a blatantly obvious issue: why would anyone want to defend a worthless structure? You’d just plan for a controlled flip 8h in.

This idea only work if you do a PPT down / direct cap points up system. But in that case, your 8h is IMO way too long and would defeat the purpose of diminishing returns against uncontested objective. Need to pull that down to like 3h or so.

Personally, I would prefer a simple value system. Each objective still tick a set amount of points, but each tick their “value” increase too – at T0 less, at T3 more. So if it a tower ticks 10, 5 points is added each tick to its value. 6 at T1, 8 at T3. When capping that tower, you get the sum of the value. So on the map you might see a T3 tower with 236 value, or a T0 tower with 20 value, etc and so on.

This change would make it more valuable to defend fresh objectives while also better equalizing points when taking long held T3 objectives, making it desireable to both cap and defend at all times. Holding an objective would still always be a net gain though.