Guild Wars 2

I’d very much like a Dev to settle this question for me. I’ve had a running argument with several people about when the Crossed Orange swords appear to the Opposing Force when YOUR side attacks an objective.

Common anecdotal knowledge holds that when you attack a gate or wall with ONLY siege equipment, like a flame ram, that NO Orange Swords appear to the enemy. In other words, siege weapons allow the attacking side to “sneak attack” a gate, forcing the defenders to run around the whole objective (Say StoneMist) to find where the attack is actually coming from.

To Me, this makes absolutely no sense. I always see crossed Orange swords when and where zerg meets zerg, or when I’m defending SM or a tower. And to me, an attack or damage to an objective is just that regardless of how it occurs or is dealt.

So could a Developer PLEASE clear up my confusion? DO siege weapons NOT create Orange swords on attack? Why is this allowed, in view of the “stealthy” aspect that siege weapons would thusly have?

Hope to hear from ya soon. Thanks for your time and trouble. And to the inevitable trolls, stick it in your ear. I don’t want to hear from some Schmuck that YES, siege weapon only attacks are invisible. I Want a DEV to say it.

Number of attacking players determines orange swords. So if you have 5 players on siege and nobody else attacking, no orange swords will pop. If a group somehow built 25 siege weapons that are manned and attacking, I suspect (although do not know for sure) orange swords will pop.

Note: 25+ damaged players in an area also pop swords. This is usually seen when a zerg takes falling damage together.

Orange swords occur when there’s 25 players in combat

I know you want a dev to clear this up for you BUT orange swords have nothing to do with siege. You get orange swords when 25 (iirc) players in close proximity enter combat. Example of this is get your zerg and jump off a cliff high enough to damage your players but not kill them, if 25 or more enter combat around the same time you will get swords at that location.

Slyther.1297:

Orange swords occur when there’s 25 players in combat

THIS. It was stated OFFICIALLY some time back, on the forums and in the Patch Notes, that Orange Swords would appear whenever 25 or more people are in combat within a certain radius of one another. That’s why you get Swords popping up anytime 25+ people jump off a cliff or something and survive, because they are all in combat for a few seconds from the falling damage.

So yeah, you can avoid Orange Swords by making sure that fewer than 25 are in combat at any 1 time; this can be done by using 24 or fewer pieces of siege and making sure NO ONE attacks a gate without siege, or having people take turns attacking the door, then dropping back til their out of combat, or just running in groups of less than 25 all the time, even.

lol Zikory – TYPE SLOWER!!!!! I can’t keep up!

25 pieces of siege would be an impressive sight.

Otokomae.9356:

lol Zikory – TYPE SLOWER!!!!! I can’t keep up!

LOL, I got yelled at for making walls of text so I’m trying to type less.

@ OP:
Orange swords occur when any 25 players are in combat state within a certain radius of each other (probably 1500 ingame units).

You could have a group of 15 fight a group of 10 and it will draw the swords.

Swords do not apply to siege weapons. This is merely a coincidence you’ve been seeing all the time. Most commanders in Eternal BG end up with a “zerg” of 25 players or more. These players will attack the gate when the commander drops siege, making it look like the siege situation was drawing the swords. I assure you that siege does not cause orange swords as the bulk of flips against Dragonbrand occur by Ninja. That is small groups with siege make their way to the inner lord room without drawing the orange swords.

This is why you need scouts.

TL;DR – read the kitten post you lazy kitten

Wanderer.3248:

25 pieces of siege would be an impressive sight.

You’d be capped long before then.

I think the OP might be mixing up Orange Swords (which can appear anywhere) with regular white swords (that only appear over an objective when it is contested).

There is a belief that an objective won’t appear as contested (white swords, not orange), at least for a brief period, if you just attack the gate with rams. This is why you will see a commander leading a small group of 10 or 12 people scream “RAMS ONLY! DONT ATTACK GATE!”

I’d like clarification on this too.

ClaraFee.2579:

I think the OP might be mixing up Orange Swords (which can appear anywhere) with regular white swords (that only appear over an objective when it is contested).

There is a belief that an objective won’t appear as contested (white swords, not orange), at least for a brief period, if you just attack the gate with rams. This is why you will see a commander leading a small group of 10 or 12 people scream “RAMS ONLY! DONT ATTACK GATE!”

I’d like clarification on this too.

There is a delay for the white contested swords of somewhere around 30 sec upon first hitting a gate or wall. That’s why its important to scout since a group of omegas will be on inner before you even notice its contested.

ClaraFee.2579:

I think the OP might be mixing up Orange Swords (which can appear anywhere) with regular white swords (that only appear over an objective when it is contested).

There is a belief that an objective won’t appear as contested (white swords, not orange), at least for a brief period, if you just attack the gate with rams. This is why you will see a commander leading a small group of 10 or 12 people scream “RAMS ONLY! DONT ATTACK GATE!”

I’d like clarification on this too.

White swords appear 30 seconds after the objective is first attacked, not matter what hits it. That’s why a thief (or anyone) can ‘tap’ your garri and contest the waypoint. So if, in your example, a player hits the gate before rams are built, the swords appear sooner and you lose out on undetected ramming time.

Orange swords are purely based on whether or not 25 players are in combat within a certain area.

25 per side or 25 in total? (so does 12 vs 13 pop swords?)

Do NPCs (e.g. the door guards and wall ranger/mages) in fight count towards the 25 as well?

What’s the range? Do 12 vs 13 ranger doing a 1500yard shooting in a long shooting line pop swords?

Dayra.7405:

25 per side or 25 in total? (so does 12 vs 13 pop swords?)

Do NPCs (e.g. the door guards and wall ranger/mages) in fight count towards the 25 as well?

Total. So, yes, 12v13 would pop swords, as would 8v8v9. NPCs don’t count.

ClaraFee.2579:

I think the OP might be mixing up Orange Swords (which can appear anywhere) with regular white swords (that only appear over an objective when it is contested).

There is a belief that an objective won’t appear as contested (white swords, not orange), at least for a brief period, if you just attack the gate with rams. This is why you will see a commander leading a small group of 10 or 12 people scream “RAMS ONLY! DONT ATTACK GATE!”

I’d like clarification on this too.

The white swords which indicate an objective is under attack do not appear until 30 seconds after a gate or wall takes ANY damage. This is why people should RAMS ONLY. If someone attacks the gate before the rams are build the timer till the swords pops up is started. If the rams are not built before the time you lose time that you get to attack the gate with rams in before the swords appear. If you build the rams first you get extra time attacking the gate before the white swords give you away.

Since a pair of superior rams can drop a wooden gate in 45 seconds with T3 ram masters on both the extra 15 seconds of time where the objective is not marked can be the difference between successfully ninjaing a keep and getting wiped.

That is why you build the siege first, then attack the gate. Pro tip: don’t kitten ingly attack a gate unless your commander tells you to PVdoor or until the siege is built. Encourage waiting in other players around you. That extra time can make a difference.

PS: All those people who want anet to remove PVDoor damage… Be thankful it exists because it has been tipping you off to sieges early all this time. If you remove that damage expect to see more ninja’d keeps and towers. Especially wooden ones.

PS2: The white swords on a camp will appear 30 seconds after one of the camp’s main NPC guards takes damage.

Otokomae.9356:

Slyther.1297:

Orange swords occur when there’s 25 players in combat

THIS. It was stated OFFICIALLY some time back, on the forums and in the Patch Notes, that Orange Swords would appear whenever 25 or more people are in combat within a certain radius of one another. That’s why you get Swords popping up anytime 25+ people jump off a cliff or something and survive, because they are all in combat for a few seconds from the falling damage.

So yeah, you can avoid Orange Swords by making sure that fewer than 25 are in combat at any 1 time; this can be done by using 24 or fewer pieces of siege and making sure NO ONE attacks a gate without siege, or having people take turns attacking the door, then dropping back til their out of combat, or just running in groups of less than 25 all the time, even.

Otokomae,

It was stated OFFICIALLY some time back, on the forums and in the Patch Notes, that Orange Swords would appear whenever 25 or more people are in combat within a certain radius of one another.

Could you send me a link to this post please?
Thanks.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-February-26-2013/first#post1514186

Changed the orange swords combat marker to show only if more than 25 people are in combat in the area.

It’s confirmed that when 25 or more players in a specific radius enters combat, the orange swords appear. You can get orange swords from a zerg falling off a cliff, let alone attack something