Guild Wars 2

Devona’s Rest after being forced to stay in Tier 8 for 3 months despite winning every week minus 1 finally was given the opportunity this week to move up into Tier 7. Not shockingly to a lot of us, they are crushing Tier 7 and Kaineng which was able to play Devona’s Rest to relative draw every week is now crushing Tier 8.

I don’t know where these two servers should be ranked but I do know they are not Tier 8 servers and they haven’t been for months, but the system has kept them there because they were able to play each other so well.

The problem is if there are 2 or more servers in a Tier that are able to play each other close than neither will ever move unless another server comes along that goes into free fall mode like ET and HoD have done and chances are that will never happen again.

I like BG and IoJ, our matches this last month and a half have been entertaining and competitive but after 5 weeks of this match (7 for IoJ vs SoR) I would like to see some new faces.

The only counter argument that I hear is that BG would get crushed in Tier 1 and/or IoJ would dominate in Tier 3, well honestly how do you know when nobody ever moves?

I don’t think they need to get rid of the scoring system, but it does need to be tweaked. It’s a similar story in the top NA 3 tiers. All the servers are so evenly matched that noone goes anywhere.

The problem is that if servers are so evenly matched that they can’t pull ahead, then they’re stuck against one another. You could have all the best servers in a lower bracket, and they wouldn’t be able to escape it.

Two possible options are

a) Merge EU and US tiers, so there’s more servers to fight, closer point differences between tiers increasing the likelihood of different matchups and reduced a chance of fighting the same opponent for 2 months straight. I worked out in another thread that the only tier to be the same this week would have been NA T1 as World T1.

b) Make it so that after the 2nd week, and increasing every week thereafter of the same matchup, that the point difference gets multiplied by a factor (maybe 0.5). So after 3 weeks for example, there would be a multiplier of 2 (normal 1 + 0.5 × 2 extra weeks). Currently at the time of writing this, JQ is set to lose 70 with the current scores, so instead they’d lose 150, which would be enough to put them in T2 and let Blackgate go into tier 1. It wouldn’t solve the tier 3 problem this week, however.

Obviously neither of these are foolproof and both have their flaws, but they are still options none the less.

Zynthetic.2954:

The problem is that if servers are so evenly matched that they can’t pull ahead, then they’re stuck against one another. You could have all the best servers in a lower bracket, and they wouldn’t be able to escape it.

This is not a problem. This is the whole purpose of the score system. Put evenly matched servers against each other. That in turn should provide the best WvW experience.

Should Tier 8 have such fortunate situation why would anyone want to escape it?

Peetee.9406:

Devona’s Rest after being forced to stay in Tier 8 for 3 months despite winning every week minus 1 finally was given the opportunity this week to move up into Tier 7. Not shockingly to a lot of us, they are crushing Tier 7 and Kaineng which was able to play Devona’s Rest to relative draw every week is now crushing Tier 8.

I don’t know where these two servers should be ranked but I do know they are not Tier 8 servers and they haven’t been for months, but the system has kept them there because they were able to play each other so well.

The problem is if there are 2 or more servers in a Tier that are able to play each other close than neither will ever move unless another server comes along that goes into free fall mode like ET and HoD have done and chances are that will never happen again.

I like BG and IoJ, our matches this last month and a half have been entertaining and competitive but after 5 weeks of this match (7 for IoJ vs SoR) I would like to see some new faces.

The only counter argument that I hear is that BG would get crushed in Tier 1 and/or IoJ would dominate in Tier 3, well honestly how do you know when nobody ever moves?

Just wanted to say, i think devona’s will stay somewhere in tier 6, i think anvil and NSP will give you guys a run for your money

Korgov.7645:

Zynthetic.2954:

The problem is that if servers are so evenly matched that they can’t pull ahead, then they’re stuck against one another. You could have all the best servers in a lower bracket, and they wouldn’t be able to escape it.

This is not a problem. This is the whole purpose of the score system. Put evenly matched servers against each other. That in turn should provide the best WvW experience.

Should Tier 8 have such fortunate situation why would anyone want to escape it?

This guy gets it. Even matches are exactly the purpose of a ladder system.

Your still in Tier 8.

HoD and ET effectively created a Tier 9.

-K

Even matches are nice but it can get a bit boring fighting the same servers week after week for a long time? No?

Sorry, but Glicko system is written to be a gauge of over all player or team rating. Glicko was not and is not designed to maintain matching between parties. Check out the creators own site and read up on it.

The rating system is purposefly designed to rate the skill with the player constantly changing opponents. However, if the system was used to match up based on rating. Then the result can lead to deadlocks that don’t represent team ratings.

Anets use on the system is wrong.

The system to use is simple

1st +1
2nd 0
3rd -1

compare based on a simple delta change on those numbers and you get a vastly better and more changing results that is a far better representation of server skill. This of course is based on matching up opponents based on standing. Where as glicko is meant to be judged on leagues(ie changing opponents)

Rhyis.7058:

Korgov.7645:

Zynthetic.2954:

The problem is that if servers are so evenly matched that they can’t pull ahead, then they’re stuck against one another. You could have all the best servers in a lower bracket, and they wouldn’t be able to escape it.

This is not a problem. This is the whole purpose of the score system. Put evenly matched servers against each other. That in turn should provide the best WvW experience.

Should Tier 8 have such fortunate situation why would anyone want to escape it?

This guy gets it. Even matches are exactly the purpose of a ladder system.

I didn’t say that even matches are a bad thing. Matches where the teams are near equal in points at the end of the week are the best.

I said if matches are too even week after week after week, then they stagnate with no servers going up, and none going down.

This has numerous other side effects to, such as boredom, irritation, and unfriendly rivalries (TC vs FA threads make good examples of that last point) among others.

jayderyu.3751:

The rating system is purposefly designed to rate the skill with the player constantly changing opponents. However, if the system was used to match up based on rating. Then the result can lead to deadlocks that don’t represent team ratings.

Anets use on the system is wrong.

Which was the point I was trying to make. The same matchups no longer truly represent the servers, but only how they compete against the same 2 – 3 servers they’re facing.

If all of evenly matched tier 3 servers chose a respective server for next week in tier 8 and transferred, these new t8 realms wouldn’t change their rating, and would still stay in t8, even though they should be much higher in rankings.

Anet should consider modifying their rating system slightly to counter this, or merge server tiers to alleviate the chance of stagnation.

Also worth noting that if the tiers were merged, the fights this week would have been

Tier 1 SoS JQ SBI
Tier 2 VS BG BT
Tier 3 SR Rall AS
Tier 4 IoJ TC BB
Tier 5 Des ER CD
Tier 6 FA YB Kod
Tier 7 PK RS MS
Tier 8 Gan Mag EBay

Etc, Etc. If you don’t know the names of some of the servers, that’s a good thing volatility wise.

jayderyu.3751:

Sorry, but Glicko system is written to be a gauge of over all player or team rating. Glicko was not and is not designed to maintain matching between parties. Check out the creators own site and read up on it.

Point taken.

Even though Glicko is being used wrong the outcome is even matches. Except at the lowest tier where the weakest servers have nowhere to fall.

For example in the lowest EU tier we have 2 servers which are significantly weaker than the ones just above leading to full pie matches.

Zynthetic.2954:

I said if matches are too even week after week after week, then they stagnate with no servers going up, and none going down.

This has numerous other side effects to, such as boredom, irritation, and unfriendly rivalries (TC vs FA threads make good examples of that last point) among others.

Perhaps players could take initiative on breaking the stagnation. If that really is any issue.

Change your strategy a bit. Instead of defending all of your own borderland and your 3rd of the EB, focus on one opposing server’s borderland and do dolyak hunting on the other maps.