Guild Wars 2

Rising Dusk.2408:

Krakah.3582:

You forgot to add how screwed PvP players are for Guild events. Most PvP players do not have the way points to participate.

It would actually be really sweet if there were WvW Guild Missions. Something like “Take a certain point!” would be awesome, or, well, I have no idea what they could do, but it’d be cool if they did it.

This sounds great; especially if there were both capture and defend missions. If the RNG Gods smiled, and the stars perfectly aligned it, might even end up being GvG. I’d love to have some WvW oriented guild missions.

No where did the op say anything about wanting to get a legendary. The people complaining “why should you get a legendary if you don’t WvW?” need to get a clue. Even if world completion where instantly given to every player in the game, they would not be able to get a legendary without also getting the badges of honor. How do you get those, by playing WvW. The attitude in this thread is exactly why I will not play any PvP content unless absolutely necessary. PvP brings out the worst in online gamers.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

The attitude in this thread is exactly why I will not play any PvP content unless absolutely necessary. PvP brings out the worst in online gamers.

Well the WvW community on Gunnars has shown me the best in online gamers that I’ve seen. Think that’s a pretty generalised statement.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

No where did the op say anything about wanting to get a legendary. The people complaining “why should you get a legendary if you don’t WvW?” need to get a clue. Even if world completion where instantly given to every player in the game, they would not be able to get a legendary without also getting the badges of honor. How do you get those, by playing WvW. The attitude in this thread is exactly why I will not play any PvP content unless absolutely necessary. PvP brings out the worst in online gamers.

/cough Jumping Puzzle /cough

I’m a hardcore WvWer with a legendary and 2 sets (and contemplating working on a 3rd) which i transmuted into dungeon looks, because there’s no way in hell I’m running around in that fugly WvW gear.
I seriously dislike doing the PvE in this game at this point, but I sucked it up because I wanted a certain thing, and even if that meant I had to run TA or Arah 20 more times with some random people….. I wanted it, so I was going to get it. Simple as that.

Have your friends tried applying that to WvW?

bladie.5084:

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

That’s why you’re prolly being called a care bear. Nobody’s being hostile, or flaming you at all. As stated before your arguments are pretty biased and then when you don’t get what you want to hear, you turn yourself to some sort of a victim.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

So you’re taking the first two comments and generalizing the rest of the communities?

No, what he’s clearly saying from what I see is that those first two posts are entirely typical of the hostility PVP breeds in some of those who inhabit the PVP sections of all MMOs that have PVP in them, and which puts off a good number of players who aren’t as aggressive as those posters clearly are.

I don’t PVP, I never PVP, because of that sort of aggressive attitude, and I’m far from being alone: use of the term ‘carebear’ says it all, I want nothing to do with anyone who uses such a condescending term.

I dunno, I think carebears are awesome, and it’s more flattering than what I’ve seen Russians call PvE’ers or people who mess up in WvW.

You just got to feel bad for those poor PvErs; to have that star dangled above their heads for so long and just as they are about to get it, have snatched away by waves of invaders killing a looting all over them. All they want is to explore; thats what the Star is about right? The spirit of exploration and the excitement of somewhere new ~Sigh~ well I guess you can’t have your bread buttered on both sides.

~Mystical Old Man Voice~
(And so with heavy hearts the PvErs took up arms and went to WvW and killed and looted there way to all the points. A long painful journey, much longer then it was painful and more painful because it was longer. days turned into weeks, weeks turned into months; many gave up, many stopped caring, some went insane, other simply gave into the dark. But in the end they got their star dripped in blood their quest for exploration done, their spirit for exploration all but destroyed and their souls in tatters. Then they stopped playing and moved on with their lives to do more importent things like the dishes. The End)

Genev.2450:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

No where did the op say anything about wanting to get a legendary. The people complaining “why should you get a legendary if you don’t WvW?” need to get a clue. Even if world completion where instantly given to every player in the game, they would not be able to get a legendary without also getting the badges of honor. How do you get those, by playing WvW. The attitude in this thread is exactly why I will not play any PvP content unless absolutely necessary. PvP brings out the worst in online gamers.

/cough Jumping Puzzle /cough

I’m a hardcore WvWer with a legendary and 2 sets (and contemplating working on a 3rd) which i transmuted into dungeon looks, because there’s no way in hell I’m running around in that fugly WvW gear.
I seriously dislike doing the PvE in this game at this point, but I sucked it up because I wanted a certain thing, and even if that meant I had to run TA or Arah 20 more times with some random people….. I wanted it, so I was going to get it. Simple as that.

Have your friends tried applying that to WvW?

You mean the jp located in WvW? Last time I looked, that was in WvW and still a PvP zone so I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Not sure who you are replying to, but none of my friends are having any problems with it. Most of us got our titles long ago. I did WvW long enough to get completion, now I only bother with it if some guildies want to hop in to waste some time. This does not effect me at all. I already have the title, have no interest in a legendary and have no use for medals of honor so I really have no reason to do WvW but I can still see the ops point of view and from the Devs response, it appears anet can as well.

Oliver.7201:

You just got to feel bad for those poor PvErs; to have that star dangled above their heads for so long and just as they are about to get it, have snatched away by waves of invaders killing a looting all over them. All they want is to explore; thats what the Star is about right? The spirit of exploration and the excitement of somewhere new ~Sigh~ well I guess you can’t have your bread buttered on both sides.

~Mystical Old Man Voice~
(And so with heavy hearts the PvErs took up arms and went to WvW and killed and looted there way to all the points. A long painful journey, much longer then it was painful and more painful because it was longer. days turned into weeks, weeks turned into months; many gave up, many stopped caring, some went insane, other simply gave into the dark. But in the end they got their star dripped in blood their quest for exploration done, their spirit for exploration all but destroyed and their souls in tatters. Then they stopped playing and moved on with their lives to do more importent things like the dishes. The End)

That was the best bedtime story ever.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Genev.2450:

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

No where did the op say anything about wanting to get a legendary. The people complaining “why should you get a legendary if you don’t WvW?” need to get a clue. Even if world completion where instantly given to every player in the game, they would not be able to get a legendary without also getting the badges of honor. How do you get those, by playing WvW. The attitude in this thread is exactly why I will not play any PvP content unless absolutely necessary. PvP brings out the worst in online gamers.

/cough Jumping Puzzle /cough

I’m a hardcore WvWer with a legendary and 2 sets (and contemplating working on a 3rd) which i transmuted into dungeon looks, because there’s no way in hell I’m running around in that fugly WvW gear.
I seriously dislike doing the PvE in this game at this point, but I sucked it up because I wanted a certain thing, and even if that meant I had to run TA or Arah 20 more times with some random people….. I wanted it, so I was going to get it. Simple as that.

Have your friends tried applying that to WvW?

You mean the jp located in WvW? Last time I looked, that was in WvW and still a PvP zone so I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Not sure who you are replying to, but none of my friends are having any problems with it. Most of us got our titles long ago. I did WvW long enough to get completion, now I only bother with it if some guildies want to hop in to waste some time. This does not effect me at all. I already have the title, have no interest in a legendary and have no use for medals of honor so I really have no reason to do WvW but I can still see the ops point of view and from the Devs response, it appears anet can as well.

The only thing in that which was relevant to you was the jumping puzzle comment, the rest was to OP saying “omg it’s not me it’s my friends”
Most people don’t consider the jumping puzzle wvw, especially since most of the time there will be mesmer taxis, and when there isn’t, people often refuse to move until there is a mesmer taxi instead of doing the puzzle and, god forbid, actually meeting somebody. Who might or might not feel violent.

I’d just like to say that despite my initial doubts about making this thread, I’m now really glad that I did. I’m grateful for the comments made on all sides of the argument, and am pleased that people have been exposed to multiple perspectives of not only this issue, but also about playing the game in general.

There’s a lot of people that play thus game – we come from different time zones, lifestyles, and levels of game experience. We like different things and want different things out of playing the game. I think the posts in this thread make that pretty clear.

I’m happy that folks who don’t normally post on the World vs World forum came out of the woodwork and made their voices heard. I’m relieved that my guild and I aren’t the only people that have had experiences like these regarding World vs World style play.

I have a lot of fun playing with my friends, both in PvP and in PvE. I’m confident that we’ll keep having fun, and hope to keep it that way.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Galphar.3901:

I’ll play PvP when Anet brings GvG and HoH to GW2. Untill then, I’ll stick to Pve/Dungeons. I’d yather see WvWvW be HoH oriented than how it is now. And give us a reason to do it. Back in GW, whoever held HoH opened up FoW/UW for there side. No reason they can’t do this but make it between 3 servers instead of between continents.

This would actually be cool, but favors population too much unfortunately. In GW1 it worked because of fixed team sizes, but we wouldn’t want this to end up being “Whoever has more people gets to play this cool PvE content on their server”. Talk about a fast way to empty out servers that can’t hold the point that rewards the PvE content, though.

I totally agree about making whichever server holds WvWvW in it’s current state have access to UW/FoW. I’d like to see the current WvWvW turned into the old HoH where it’s 3 teams(1 from each server competing) does battle for control like HoH was in GW. Just do away with the current WvWvW format and it’s ZERG mentality and give us HoH from GW.

Talenna.4052:

Why do people play Guild Wars and not pvp?

Because it’s a beautiful world and the PvE is fun.

I don’t pvp, I will freely admit that I’m simply not a good enough player to do so and I don’t enjoy grinding for items that pvp seems to require.

I will spend quite a bit of money for gems for fluff and it’s people like me who help to support Anet and GW2 with our credit cards.

So whilst many pvpers look down at those of us who do not like their game style, we are still supporting it by buying pet hippos and I do hope there is a kitten for sale today!

Back on topic, my dislike of pvp will possibly prevent me from completing the map, unless I can find pvpers who will carebear me around the wvw map.

Edit: some weirdness seems to have occured with the post above. I apologise to the person who posted it

Kind of funny, because I know many of people in my guild (a WvW focused guild with leader that don’t touch PVE), that spend way more money on buying stuff to allow us to be a T1 server per week than you ever will.

I don’t understand. PVE players want world completion for their legendaries, right? Those things cost tons of gold… buying a few gems to transfer to an appropriate server and back again costs 40g, can’t they afford that?

(Not that anyone cares, but I got 100% completion, except for the two skill points north of BLs, too far out of the way, without even trying.)

Kraggy.4169:

No, what he’s clearly saying from what I see is that those first two posts are entirely typical of the hostility PVP breeds in some of those who inhabit the PVP sections of all MMOs that have PVP in them, and which puts off a good number of players who aren’t as aggressive as those posters clearly are.

I don’t PVP, I never PVP, because of that sort of aggressive attitude, and I’m far from being alone: use of the term ‘carebear’ says it all, I want nothing to do with anyone who uses such a condescending term.

Nah man, generalizing once again. I can tell you that during the times of a wvwvw that a pvp community has to bond together to survive really brings the best out of them. Not all server has a positive attitude and ur going to see stuff you don’t like but hey, that’s the reality of what happens when players really want to win. And if that’s the reason you don’t like to pvp then that’s honestly your loss.

That being said, PVE isn’t really all about glits and glam as well. the discrimination of lvls, gears, class and knowledge of the content. It gets pretty bad as well. and I’m sure everyone has their taste of being discriminated in pve content whether in GW2 or another MMO.

I like the last 8% or so is in WvW Makes it a challenge.. Otherwise Legendaries will be too easy to get imo..

TBH I don’t really think that suddenly having people not needing to do WvW to get map completion makes legendaries instantly commonplace. I finished map completion months ago, and the thing stopping me from going for a legendary is the huge amount of mats/time required to get one.

I’ve spent a decent bit of time in PvE recently getting some ascended gear and giving fractals a real shot for the first time, and I’ve talked with a lot of pure PvE’ers. One of my most memorable chats was with a guy sporting two legendaries, which mainly started with me admiring all his shinies . The message I got regarding the time he spent in WvW was that it was a terrible experience for him. A slightly dodgy internet connection means that he is unable to effectively fight in anything more than a 5v5, meaning that any hopes of helping storm a keep were basically out the window. On top of that, he said that his least favourite part of MMO’s was pvp based activity. The idea of hunting down actual other players and ‘murdering them’ (his quote not mine) was horrible to him – he got his badges like a lot of people, through jumping puzzle farming.

The thing is, a lot of us here on the forums tend to treat these people like ‘carebears’ or ‘noobs’ and tell them to l2p, man up and get into wvw, or something similar. But I’d like to see anyone here direct a group of PuG’s through dungeons including fractals, skip trash, or memorize a bosses attacks as well or quickly as this guy, and a lot of others like him – I know I couldn’t without putting in a lot of effort; effort with which they could probably learn to dominate in WvW. Dedication to PvE seems to be considered worthless when compared to dedication to WvW – i suppose this comes from the ‘ease’ of PvE content in this game, but honestly its still disrespectful to pass off this hard work as nothing.

My suggestion for this topic is that we split the areas of WvW and PvE ‘completion’, and make it an or idea, with some slight modifications. PvE completion now requires all the points of interest within dungeons, as well as a certain level of progression in the slayer achievements (these would have to be scaled individually, things like the giant slayer achievement atm are next to impossible). The WvW completion requires all the maps, plus a certain level of completion of the WvW achievements – X SM caps, X dolyak kills, etc (again, scaled individually – as people have said, it would take years to progress well in some of these) – enough that it should require similar effort to get PvE or WvW completion. The completion stars would only be shown in the area where they have completed the map – no PvE star in WvW and vice versa. This allows the hardcore WvW players to get a gold star they can show where they play most, without venturing into PvE content. Similarly, PvE players are not forced to do any PvP. As well as this, the Gift of Battle would become interchangable with, lets say a ‘Gift of the Delver’ – obtainable for 200 tokens from each dungeon (tokens arent hard to get really, especially now with gw2lfg – this should be comparable to 500 wvw badges for an average player).

Overall I think this idea gives a much happier experience for everyone involved, much better than what we have now which leads to stuff like this thread. As the devs have said they’re working on color changing, it seems like that is almost the only valid response here. This ’don’t make things easy for PvE players’ has been overused here, is a pointless response, and seems a little hypocritical with the complaints about having to do PvE world completion. It certainly doesn’t foster the kind of feeling that would draw PvE players into WvW…

jamesigall.5938, I sincerely appreciate that you took the time to give a dedicated PvE player a voice on the forum. I definitely understand the kind of player prejudice that can occur that bladie.5084 was talking about too.

I like the idea of creating separate achievements for the different types of play. As a mostly casual player, I personally find WvW much more accessible than Explore Mode Dungeons and High Level Fractals, especially when nearly half of the community seems to only want to bring “Experienced” players along for speed / farm runs, etc.

Different Gifts for different folks? Why, that sounds like the kind of game play environment that would allow people to play the game as they wanted to…

bladie.5084:

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

That’s why you’re prolly being called a care bear. Nobody’s being hostile, or flaming you at all. As stated before your arguments are pretty biased and then when you don’t get what you want to hear, you turn yourself to some sort of a victim.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

So you’re taking the first two comments and generalizing the rest of the communities? So if 2 foreigners spoke badly and belittled you and your people are you going to forever dislike them and their whole community? Very very narrowed minded.

I remembered some of our guildmates needed world completion cuz they just felt like getting it. But due to the hardships of being #3, we didn’t have the luxury and they even contemplated switching servers to get the world completion. Switching world isn’t just betrayal to our server, but to our guild as well and thoughts like those are not tolerated. But that being said sympathy and feelings of inferiority showed and helped us became a stronger guild. We rallied everyone, and went on a expedition to get everyone in guild who wanted world completion to get their legendaries. We killed, we looted, and destroyed everything infront of us. Wasted ridiculous amounts of gold for all those golems and misc weapon seiges and took everything we wanted to. We gained the respect of our server, role played the ideas that Anet had for players who seeked their legendaries, some of our pve guys were respected by pvp players for throwing it down in wvwvw, and in the end some of us made our legendaries.

If you’re not willing to get your guild to participate in tower seiging, Not willing to play the hard times w/ your pvp community and not willing to invest time to help take that tower, why should you deserve a legendary?

This is not coming from a pvp player to a pve player, this is coming from a person to another person: IF YOU WANNA TAKE THE EASY ROUTE AND WAIT FOR SHlT TO HAPPEN SO U CAN GET IT IN THEN YOU BETTER THINK TWICE. MAN UP, STOP CRYING, AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF MAKING USELESS POSTS LIKE THESE. IF YOU CAN’T TAKE THAT TOWER, CAN’T GAIN RESPECT OF OTHER PLAYERS AND RALLY THEM TO CONQUER, THEN GTFOUTTA HERE WITH OWNING A LEGENDARY. Cuz then you’d just be a fake legend. An anounymous money spender or something along the line. Wake up, and plan for your legendary. Because TRUST me, if you do it the right way… The weapon is not the legendary, but the character, the name and the player behind the screen becomes the legend… Which imo is the ulitimate reward. That’s why we pvpers pvp, that’s why we sit for hours and hours to wvww. It’s to get that recognition. We don’t do it to look cute, we dont do it for the money, we do it for respect. My guildmates are lvl 80 running around with 10-20 gold only. It tells a lot (other from them being poor).

Rrrooaaar! Wait. meow. haha

I’m not a pvp player I’m a wvw player and yes there is a differences. I play to win weather it breaking a zerg, capping a camp, kill/escorting yaks it doesnt matter that what I do. I don’t like anyone that hinders the ability of my sever to win

Map completion is an individual challenge done for personal gain. The reward is such that you do not help anybody but yourself upon completing it.

And yet still it is also a goal for which to attain you are mortally dependent on the performance of others. Your home server, which many players picked rather uninformed, plays a huge role, whether you can carry out your personal task or not. This is a very visible divide.

But maybe the divide is there by design? Being forced to pursue an otherwise single player PvE oriented goal of map completion in multiplayer WvW softly coerces us into a mode of interaction beyond the regular gameplay. One way to look at this is as a means to cleverly force players to do something they do not know and have them discover whether they like it or not.

However, too much confidence is put into the scenario wherein players like WvW upon just playing it. I have seen ArenaNet try similar things with PvP modes when interacting with their community. Nobody there present really hated playing that PvP match, but nobody was converted into a PvP player either. The desire of the player precedes the options menu of a game. The player is the master, the game is the servant. Even if we choose to follow a path of relative insanity, or seem to be slaves to the whims of the game, players still act out of their own volition and serving a purpose; recreational madness, if you will.

Since we do not live in a bubble, the circumstances of our lives and daily interactions will determine how we choose to engage with games, which motivations dominate and which attitudes towards performing inside the game are displayed. It is much more subtle than casual vs. hardcore, PvE vs PvP, penny pincher vs. whale. Player motivation can be something utterly alien to the developers. It can be something they did neither design for, nor made sure it could exist in the game.

Map completion is such a cause. The only reason to go for the added map completion in WvW is to get the legendary. For which you also need 500 WvW badges of honor. See, it is intentional to force you there.

The real important question to ask the developer is:
when are you going to start appreciate players for what they do, instead of introducing something players want as an excuse to stuff content down their throats they did not ask for?

You want the legendary, does that mean you want WvW?
You want the ascended gear, does that mean you want dailies? Or join giant guilds? Or play specific content?

GW2 is at its best when it enables you to do what you like with persons of the same mindset. It is at its worst, when players of different mindsets form uneasy alliances in hopes of reaching a goal together. It is at its worst when you decide to suffer through something to get something and then never do it again. Ask yourself, what do you want and what does that thing try to make you? Reward you for the fun you are having, or force you into uneasy alliances? My advice, have fun, reject everything else.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently in the process of taking some steps to alleviate this. Both on the stagnant match side and on the server color side.

DevonCarver.5370:

Regardless of the tenor of this thread, we are trying to make this better for both PvE and WvW focused players. Hopefully the changes we have incoming will make a difference.

This may be the end of 1st is green, 2nd blue and 3rd red.
Making World Completion easier without to worry too much about WvW.

jamesigall.5938:

Dedication to PvE seems to be considered worthless when compared to dedication to WvW – i suppose this comes from the ‘ease’ of PvE content in this game, but honestly its still disrespectful to pass off this hard work as nothing….

Thank you for the well constructed post looking at both sides of this argument.
And you are right, WvW needs to have accomplishments and rewards that are only theirs while PvE folks not need to explore the Battlegrounds in order to get a Map Completion.

I’m not even going to get into the Legendaries, because for some its just getting that Map to 100% which matters.
Fact is compared to PvX stuff the WvW community is getting borked over and hard.
The players shouldn’t require going to PvE for money just to repair. The sweat and accomplishments of the battles should be enough.

Maybe if ANet allowed Repair canisters to be bought with Badges and they only be WvW useful that could help. There’s plenty of other things they could work on, based on the stuff I’ve read so far. Far more experienced minds than mine could put together better ideas.

I’ve only played on WvW a couple of times because Map complete required it. Though every time I did I tried to donate siege plans (thank you Commander Ice for telling me how otherwise they would have been discarded).