Guild Wars 2

I’ve come to find the current rezz mechanics to be the most frustrating and poorly conceived mechanic currently in game. In fact I can’t recall a single feature ever being to detrimental to game-play.

Say for example, it’s getting late at night. You and your 15 fellows are defending a keep from 25 attackers. It’s a big discrepancy but not insurmountable, especially if they are disorganized. Or at least that would be the case if you could actually kill people in this frikkin game. The rezz mechanics are just so incredibly frustrating it makes any attempt at defending against a larger force ultimately futile. The results are pre-determined. All you can do while defending is buy some time….in the hope some larger zerg might come to your aid (which doesn’t happen at night).

I mean how come self-healing abilities have up to 30 second cooldowns yet somebody can pick me up from the ground in a matter of seconds?

How come my self-healing is interrupted by damage but someone else can just sit there and heal me up through damage?

It really boggles my mind just how incredibly detrimental the current rezz mechanics are. They favor zerging and allow bad players to get away with so much as long as the hang around others.

It just doesn’t make sense on so many levels and leads to absurd situations where you need to kill enemy players 6 times before they stay dead for good. It’s just so incredibly broken it boggles my mind.

Solutions are simple: 3rd party rezzing needs to:

a) take longer than a few seconds, especially with multiple players.

b) be interrupted by damage.

I agree with this. The rez mechanics, especially about such poor balance in them, should only be used in PvE, not sPvP or WvW. With these rez mechanics, it makes any type of foolishness not punishable. Why? Such as in his example, lets say that some idiot gets too close to the walls and dies. Good, one less of the attackers, right? Wrong. Next thing you have are 4-5 friendlys run up to him, a guardian pops a shield and they all rez him to life and he gets back and the defenders just made no progress.

Same goes for attacks vs defenders. Some defender jumps down? Snare/stun and burst him down to a “downed state”. next thing i know he teleports into the portal, or magically just gets up because of some skill and runs back inside to be rezzed by his teammates.

To add one more issue around dying and rezzing. Dead players are used as scouts reporting back anything they see which takes away any surprise advantage teams have. There is nothing you can do about it because they are already dead.

Blank their screen or force them to map view while Dead after a short timeout of say 30 seconds.

The thing about dieing is that if they see you while they’re alive, they’re still going to report it. Now if I play just sits in a “dead state” for a long time and is just calling out troop movements, it is an issue that should be addressed. Although it is not one of great importance compared to the rest of the issues that I would like to see changed, it is one that I would greatly appreciate being addressed in the near future.

Downed to Death is fine, I like it, its a good mechanic, well organised teams rez their downed etc.

However Dead for as long as you want is the silly bit. So a possible resolution would be a DEAD timer, If you arent rezz’d within 3 minutes (or whatever) you autoport to spawn.

Stops spies., but allows for attempts to rez. Then as the defender you would need to pressure the rezzers.

This as a defender is made harder as being on a rampart seems to be at a disadvantage to the attackers. Attackers can deny ramparts which block LoS to easily. This really needs fixing. If my torso is behind a wall by my upper body is over the parrapet, I shouldnt be blocked, I shouldnt have to stand on the very edge of the wall to shoot / magic down. Equally attackers should suffer a damage % penalty for targets on a rampart…..when they are in open ground.

Ramparts force defenders to ctush together to get LoS….attackers are all spread out with super duper range…..very pesky.

Oh yeh and add terrible elevator music (maybe some Billy Ray Cyrus with a 6yo school recorder musical support or some such) as background music when you are dead…..dead should be bad after all.

downed and defeated is working fine.

pls dun blame the game if u r unable to wipe out all the attackers effectively.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

downed and defeated is working fine.

pls dun blame the game if u r unable to wipe out all the attackers effectively.

I agree. Not much needs to be done IMO but I would love to see these two things added;
- blanking the screen for dead players. If you’re dead you shouldn’t be able to see what is going on (prevents possible spying).
- Death penalty on rez/respawn such as 10% less damage accumulative which lasts say 5-10 minutes.

I believe what most of you guys fail to see in the OP is that , the rally system is borked and leads to dull and biased results . It is impossible to fight with fair odds in wvw, the rally system resulting from downed state gives overwhelming advantage to whoever has more as it completely favors a no brain zerg mentality. When you permit people to never take a defensive stance when *losing , because u know as long as i kill someone 7 of my downed teammates will rez , all planning goes out the window.

Downed state is never the problem.. Rally system is .

Kazzuki.5704:

I believe what most of you guys fail to see in the OP is that , the rally system is borked and leads to dull and biased results
…
Downed state is never the problem.. Rally system is .

The OP is talking specifically about defending a keep against a larger attacking force that can simply revive people to keep up a virutally endless siege.

The rally mechanic has virtually no impact at all on these kind of battles. You are talking about zerg skirmishes which are very different types of fights.

I believe there should be a “resurrected penalty.” If you’ve just been rezzed, either from downed or defeated, you will instantly be defeated the next time your hp reaches 0, skipping down state. This would last for 3 minutes after being rezzed. This gives people only 1 chance, after that your dead. I also agree with the force respawn after 3 minutes of defeated thing, spies are very annoying.

without resing melee classes or builds would be in an even worse position. repair costs already are pushed onto melee classes. zergs are encouraged by many mechanics. eg, the ability to run and shoot through teammates

Scyntrus.2458:

I believe there should be a “resurrected penalty.” If you’ve just been rezzed, either from downed or defeated, you will instantly be defeated the next time your hp reaches 0, skipping down state. This would last for 3 minutes after being rezzed. This gives people only 1 chance, after that your dead. I also agree with the force respawn after 3 minutes of defeated thing, spies are very annoying.

There is a mechanic like that in place, albeit more forgiving then your suggestion:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_penalty

And it works, if you focus down the same player a couple of times he’ll end up defeated.
When it comes to resurrecting other players, there are enough ways to interrupt the healer.
Sure, when you are up defending a tower, it’s harder.
But it’s even more harder to finish someone when pushing to take a tower, keep that mind.

Under no circumstances is it ok for people to rezz each other in 3 seconds.

It’s not directly a problem with downed-state and I’m aware of the “kill 3 times then die”.

None of that changes nothing about how incredibly stupid this mechanic is.

Downed state is a stupid mechanic and ruins PvP. Rezzing in PvP zones should break on any damage.

Let me loot corpses for badges and force them to rally at their starting zone.

rez mechanics definetly need a change. Downed state=rez Totally dead=respawn
When totally dead you go to map view

No idea why it is the way it is or why they keep it this way but its a bad design
In your example of attacker fighting a keep, they really have an endless # of people attacking cause they can keep rezzing over and over. Its a really dumb concept

Deified.7520:

The rez mechanics, especially about such poor balance in them, should only be used in PvE, not sPvP or WvW. With these rez mechanics, it makes any type of foolishness not punishable.

The rez mechanics are fine in structured PvP, it adds another layer of strategy, the only people who are punished in that are those who fail to trait / select skills / communicate to handle that aspect of the game.

In WvW the rez mechanic is poor, as it tends to favour those with superior numbers, increasing their advantage further.

I would like to add :

Downed state is prolly the less balanced part of the game. Some class have incredible downedstate, other got useless one.

Thief / Mesmer / Warrior = Awesome Downstate

Necro/Engineer = Weak Downed state

I agree, downed state needs to go in PvP. PvE it makes a certain kind of sense because there are no healers but in PvP it is just lame.

I feel that it absolutely gives a huge advantage to whomever has the greatest number of people in any particular fight whether it be skirmishes, sieges or whatever.

The fact that most classes can still be quite effective in downed state and that they can rally off of a random kill or a mob etc is also absurd imo.

I think of this mechanic as being a form of pvp training wheels for casual zergers. But then perhaps that’s how it was conceived of to begin with.

Downed state is not bad and doesn’t need to go, it just needs a little more. What I’d like to see is a stacking stat debuff for everytime you get downed, so when you’re downed enough, you’re going to have a hard time. It would encourage people to focus on staying alive instead of not caring enough what’s happening around just because they know they’ll get ressed soon. This would also make sure no zerg gets too much edge in fights since they’ll get weaker as long as they keep getting downed. Only defeated should remove the debuff and it should stay around like 10 minutes or more in active combat or not.

most of the problems that you guys are brining up with the downed state beside what I have said I agree with. I play engineer and I can pull people towards me (perfect way to tell them HEY FINISH ME) and then i have to wait like 5 seconds till i can do an AoE push back. But I played other classes and by god they are so much better. Mesmers have a clone that does massive damage ontop of stealth/clone. Thiefs can go stealth and increase their surviveablity significantly, Guardians have an instant AoE push back and an amazing team/self heal. I think if they’re going to keep the downed state in pvp, they need to look at class balance and situation balance. In WvW the whole endless siege and I died but i really don’t get punished for it mentality takes away from the felling of WvW significantly.

Downed state isn’t the worst thing in the world as a concept, the main problem with it is how it’s implemented. It’s too kittening powerful across the board. Looking at Elementalists, since I play one, I was over joyed at the recent change to downed state. Finally mine didn’t suck compared to most other classes. I quickly realized how absolutely stupid it is now however. I can do whatever dumb thing I feel like knowing I’ve got a get out of jail free card, and there’s not a thing my opponent can do about it. It’s terrible for game play. Most classes have at least one similarly outrageous downed skill. There should be nothing powerful about downed state. A chance for your team mates to get you back up? Sure, not bad in concept, but when you can kill your living opponent, or easily correct your own sloppy play because it’s just so easy to avoid getting stomped, something is wrong.

Rezzing from death simply needs to go. You died, there needs to be a penalty for that beyond a trivial repair cost.

Dee Jay.2460:

Solutions are simple: 3rd party rezzing needs to:

a) take longer than a few seconds, especially with multiple players.

b) be interrupted by damage.

/SIGN!

“Downstated” and “Autorezz” dont work on a Zerg game.
GW2 WvWvW is: “The greater the Zerg so successfull”

I play DAOC back and take a look into GW2 again in a Year. I hope anet improves the WvWvW

The problem is:

1. The speed at which ANet is solving WvW issues is so slow that as a GW1 customer I am really disappointed. With GW1 you bought the product and you got superb PvP (and PvE) right from the start. Nowdays GW2 is following the modern “buy now get later” product. Imagine if ANet said: “Hello everyone, here you have Halloween decorations but we will release all the Halloween quests and content in 1 month.”

2. Downed state is here to stay. Yes it’s bad design, especially in WvW. But what is ANet going to say? “Yes, we wasted time and resources on this, yes we admit it’s bad..”. Not gonna happen. People don’t admit they did a mistake. In PvE downed state makes sense because the design of Dungeons is such that most people are going to be one-shot all the time. So Downed State is there to prolong the agony and make it 2-shot.. just so it’s not that obvious how bad design is. In WvW it’s terribly bad, if I had to pick between orb hacks and downed state I’d choose removing downed state first. It’s that bad.

There is a rez sickness in game that lowers your respawn health each time you rally, but it has to trigger like 3 times in a row to kill you outright.

It’s true there is a rez sickness. It lasts few seconds.. In other words it’s completely pointless.

After 60 secs, a dead player should be portled

I would like to at least see that reviving someone is interrupted if you take damage. It’s a bit silly for one person to be able to revive someone faster then an Arrow Cart can finish him.

15 defenders vs 25 attackers is a hop skip and a jump away from hopping skipping and jumping on the attackers corpses. Defending by its very nature confers advantage. I strongly suspect that some examination of the way resources are utilized (people, siege and real estate) is required by the original poster.

I’ve found issues in the game regarding survivability but not based on anything in the original post on this thread.

I don’t see down state as a problem. It’s a tool like any other and it’s balanced for all teams equally. It however, does favour larger groups than smaller ones.

In this context in regards to group sizes. The design favours teamwork rather than quick kill builds. That is in the end what I get from a lot of the posts saying the problem with “downstate” is….. “I can kill groups fast, but because i’m alone there teamwork of rezzing nullifies my leet skill”

From a behaviour thought about it all. War is about teams not an individual. RPG’s and most games are designed for a solo experience and mmo’s are designed for small groups. WvW works a long the lines of teams rule and the Master Chief mentality of super uber kitten is being put in it’s place.

As for the OP he does have a point. Maybe Siege weapons if they deal the killing blow should afflict the enemy with a debuff that increases rezz time by 4 times.

On a final note. Maybe we should have it more like real life. Remove the downstate and let one sword strike cause a death where players auto respawn. Skip this 20k+ Hitpoints. Take a nasty hit and your out? think they will do that? probably not.

I say live with it. Learn to adapt with it and make suggestions that are well designed on how changes can be made and the effects it will have on players.

If you don’t fight out numbered on the regular…. You have no right to speak on the issue btw… just sayin…
Also, anyone who ‘does’ fight outnumbered, needs this mechanic gone to accomplish ‘anything.’ Logically, the only ones who like the combat rez mechanic, r people who suck, always have a zerg, and get rezzed allot when in fact they should be dead.

It’s a fact, not an opinion. This mechanic makes it truly impossible for the winners to win, if the opposing side gets to a certain degree of number advantage, they can rez faster than the smaller, better, more organized group can kill. So even though the smaller grp can win, and should. It’s made literally impossible by this game breaking mechanic, that shouldn’t exist in any form of pvp.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Combat-Rezzing-Needs-to-Change/first

Edit: like… holy kitten, is siege not enough for you zerglings? The dmg there alone is insanity, but you’ll never see me ask to get rid of it. Why not? Cuz a skilled player can work around that, that’s something that can be overcome with skill.
A zerg combat rezzing themselves to the point of literally being truly invincible, is an absolutely 100% impossible mechanic to surpass is any way.

You do realize defending is so much easier to attack right? like a group of 10 people can ward off like 25 ppl if you have enough siege weapons. Those things are op as hell.

Easy way to solve dead players ghosting. Make dead players unable to see enemies and only able to see allies when they are dead. Problem solved right there, they will see who’s coming to raise them without the abilities to report armies movement.

We’re talking about all forms of WvW, not just standing at a wall with rams. Sometimes 10 people need to go attack a treb with 25 people too. Sometimes 10 people need to hold ground against 25 while others take an objective. You can’t take 1 instant with a magical ‘hope of tons of siege and magical supply that appeared from no where’ and say that one instance makes it balanced.
You clearly run in massive zergs all day. So let me inform you how it goes…. 3 people, have 30 supply. So those 3 have to fight. Those 3 are better than the 15 attacking. The 3 kill 5 of the 15 without being killed themselves, then the other 10 stop fighting, and all rez the others…. And the 3 are back to square 1, with nothing accomplished, and can do nothing about it.

I think I finally get what’s going on here… I had to think like a zergling that’s only ever played WoW to understand, but I get it, and I’ll explain.

In a ‘real’ pvp game. With siege, Castles, keeps, etc… Team work and skill is this…. You have a grp of 5 of your best players on the server. The leader asks those 5 people to hold off a keep from 25 attackers, while the main force captures the enemy objectives. That is skill and teamwork in a real pvp siege game.

Now I’ll explain the problem with this game….. The best thing you can do, is just pile up as massive amount of random people as possible, tell them all to rez eachother, and build lots of siege stuff.

That’s not teamwork or skill, that’s just rezzing massive amounts of people in order to be invincible.

The best fix would just be to make rezzing break on any form of damage in a PVP zone.

The ‘best’ fix. Would be to get rid of downed state in PvP zones completely, and only allow rezzing when out of combat. There’s plenty of healing and dodging in this game. In PvP, dead should be dead.

I’m all for removing it from PvP completely. Hate the mechanic for PvP, love it in PvE.

It’s great for the zerglings and the organized 5-10man groups. It just completely removes the ability to outplay (and ultimately win) larger groups as solo – 3man or so.

I understand the initial reaction to the res system and that it is bad for WvW; however, I find that I don’t mind the system, yes at times it can be annoying to see someone you spent all that work into killing get helped and up they are. The res system adds a new and interesting aspect to WvW (PvP). I have seen good size groups of players all killed because they tried to help res one downed player. Downed players are good bait for different AOEs.
In short keep the res system, some of the changes to the system wouldn’t hurt, but I still like the system as it is.
Dee Jay: The res system also helps the defenders and the res system doesn’t stop you from destroying any siege weapons. The res system would not have been why you lost that tower.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’ve come to find the current rezz mechanics to be the most frustrating and poorly conceived mechanic currently in game. In fact I can’t recall a single feature ever being to detrimental to game-play.

Say for example, it’s getting late at night. You and your 15 fellows are defending a keep from 25 attackers. It’s a big discrepancy but not insurmountable, especially if they are disorganized. Or at least that would be the case if you could actually kill people in this frikkin game. The rezz mechanics are just so incredibly frustrating it makes any attempt at defending against a larger force ultimately futile. The results are pre-determined. All you can do while defending is buy some time….in the hope some larger zerg might come to your aid (which doesn’t happen at night).

I mean how come self-healing abilities have up to 30 second cooldowns yet somebody can pick me up from the ground in a matter of seconds?

How come my self-healing is interrupted by damage but someone else can just sit there and heal me up through damage?

It really boggles my mind just how incredibly detrimental the current rezz mechanics are. They favor zerging and allow bad players to get away with so much as long as the hang around others.

It just doesn’t make sense on so many levels and leads to absurd situations where you need to kill enemy players 6 times before they stay dead for good. It’s just so incredibly broken it boggles my mind.

Solutions are simple: 3rd party rezzing needs to:

a) take longer than a few seconds, especially with multiple players.

b) be interrupted by damage.

So you must play a glass cannon dps build right? If arena net wanted to make only 1 type of build viable (DPS glass cannon build) then they would make your changes. But they dont want this and so they wont. Imagine how useless any support build would be in WvW with your changes.

I’m fine with people helping others out of downed state, but once they die no one should be able to resurrect them.

Plain and simple, if you happen to die, you can only choose to respawn.

The downed state is a pain, but its there because there are no dedicated healers in the game.
Iam not talking about about an ele or guardian who can chuck up heals for the team here and there, iam talking about the good ol monks from gw1 style healers.
So yer you might have a useless player be rewarded by being rezzed from downed state.
However whats the difference between that and a useless player shouting for heals cause he/she doesn’t know how to kite?
Iam 99.9% certain there would be no downed state if gw2 had dedicated healers.
With the dead state ,while everyone has the ability to resurrect, surely they can’t place a timer on it., i guess they could make the screen go blurry and grey like it did in Aion or something along those lines. Making spying painful on the eyes.
As fustrating W3 can be at times, iam slowly coming to grips with the fact its a ‘zerg’ zone.
If you want pure solo, you have pve, if you want crisp pvp you have spvp. If want sieging, taking forts,defending forts etc you have zergville aka WvWvW.

None of that changes the fact that after a certain number, the larger force becomes literally invincible. Use whatever excuse or reasoning, but it’s broken.

I literally just sat at a keep defense where we had 11 people (i’m on an insanely small server). We had about 35 at our gate. Us few set up siege in significantly better tactical ways than they did. We literally never even let them place any siege at all for more than a few seconds. They then simply started meleeing down the rienforced door. I went outside, I killed atleast 8-10 of them. Downed more than I can even count with the assistance of our siege. Yet…. not a single one stayed dead, because they could combat rez faster than we could kill them. We were the better, more tactical team, yet it was impossible, because this mechanic makes zergling scrubs invincible, literally.

This single mechanic ruins any and all tactical ability/knowledge, or skill in this game. This mechanic makes it nothing but a massive zerg fest, of whoever has more.

Also, to add to that same fight. 6 of them moved to the side to try and take out one of our ballistas, I jumped down to fight them, and me n the guy on the ballista killed all 6 of them. Then the 25-30 others came running, so I dodhed threw them back in to the keep, immediately ran to the top to continue fighting. By the time I got to the top, all 6 we just killed were fully rezzed, back to ful;l health, and killing our ballista.
On what planet do you call that tactics and skill? It’s literally, the worst mechanic, ever put in to pvp.