Guild Wars 2

That’s how I feel it is.

In DAoC, owning a keep was something truly to be proud of. I remember the first time we took a tower in DAoC our whole guild would camp out there for days, taking turns watching the fort and building it up over time.

The problem with WvW in GW2 is that it doesn’t feel like part of the world. For example, as a guild leader…I don’t even know which camp/tower/keep/castle we’ve claimed. Infact, even if I enter that castle, the only thing I can see that seems like ownership is that generic flag we have up there. There are no perks. The guild buff is just an extra chore for the guild leaders to monitor and isn’t really something we are proud of.

Basically…I can come in at anytime, I can leave at anytime. It doesnt matter, because winning doesnt matter either. I can’t see it, I can’t feel it. There is no incentive for success. No ownership of the victory.

Fast pace is good, but the lack of guild interaction with claiming ruins the experience. Don’t even get me started on the horrible guild interface.

This is me whining on wuvwuv forums after too much champagne in the airport lounge…when the hell is my flight!?

You missed it cause you went to the wrong airport

My flight is in 20 minutes but there is no gate number im scared.

Well i’m sure going to the wrong city couldn’t be that bad lol.

I agree with you.

You should be able to see somewhere what your guild has claimed. Maybe you can in history but it should be more obvious and say somewhere on the guildtab. Also it would be cool if they implemented the same thing that DAoC had where it said how many enemies was in the area when a guard got killed like [A veteran guard was killed at your tower with 10 invaders in the area].

yay found my flight.

rare occasion. all flight attendants hot.

lift off. target acquired. fox one.

WvW wasn’t meant to feel the same DAoC. THe maps are too small. It’s just the way the game was designed. Keeps are meant to be flipped daily. If you hold onto it longer congratulations.

I’ve been suggesting that a new WvW in addition to the current. One where the maps are much larger and conquest is a long term strategy. If they don’t then they don’t. It’s still a fine game as it is.

You will feel better when you come to expect that WvW is more like Brawl rather than Fallout 3. Quick matches or long term engagement.

It’s nostalgia. That is all. Everything is gold plated in memory lane

laffingseals.5934:

It’s nostalgia. That is all. Everything is gold plated in memory lane

Nope even later RvR was more rewarding than WvW

jayderyu.3751:

WvW wasn’t meant to feel the same DAoC. THe maps are too small. It’s just the way the game was designed. Keeps are meant to be flipped daily. If you hold onto it longer congratulations.

I’ve been suggesting that a new WvW in addition to the current. One where the maps are much larger and conquest is a long term strategy. If they don’t then they don’t. It’s still a fine game as it is.

You will feel better when you come to expect that WvW is more like Brawl rather than Fallout 3. Quick matches or long term engagement.

The problem is that as soon as a game comes out that offers a better RvR experience, the large majority of WvW players in GW2 will leave. A lot of us want open world PvP, GW2 simply doesn’t offer that.

DAoC RvR:
Long term character progression from realm ranks.
Better map design-made roaming viable
No queue system
No culling/ invisible army

I’m curious, and sorta doubtful at this point that the culling issue can even be fixed. It is game breaking to me.
But game was designed for pve first and foremost, and it shows. At least game is f2play, and I’ll likely stay with it till ESO comes out next year.

Lotta truth to the nostalgia comment, but other than having an open field map with siege and 3 sides fighting…WvW is severally lacking compared to DAoC’s RvR system.
Another example: Orbs were suppose to be a relic type mechanic, correct? Now we don’t even have the orbs.

The lack of Orbs in WvW is something that honestly harms any kind of value holding Towers and Keeps actually had. A Keep with an Orb in it gave it value, and value to the Towers around it. If the Keep was yours, you had a reason to defend it and upgrade it; If it wasn’t, you had a reason to attack it, and take it, and you felt like you accomplished something when you did. Now it’s just one big clusterkitten of a territory war, with zero semblance of accomplishment. You took a Tower or a Keep? Great, better not upgrade it though, cause that’s just a massive gold sink considering you’ll lose it in a few hours because no-one bothered to defend it.

The incentive is fun. I don’t believe that there’s any major design flaw on the side of fun here, but that it’s simply a different game, and not to your tastes.

Veltoss.9135:

The incentive is fun. I don’t believe that there’s any major design flaw on the side of fun here, but that it’s simply a different game, and not to your tastes.

Ignorant troll comments ftw.

Take all rewards from pve and see how many people have a “taste” for it. Incentives add to fun and there is no reason to avoid them other than trolls saying there shouldn’t be any.

Anyway, I agree the maps are too small and feel less like an epic war and rather a tiny battleground. The keep thing being camped for days is just the game being new… this kind of thing will never be new again so you won’t get the same feeling.

I really do not know what you are talking about with satisfaction of taking towers and keeps in DAoC. In the earlier days of DAoC, the only real realm that held onto towers/keeps with any real zeal was Hibernia, simply because that was their play style and overload the keeps with Animists… once they were nerfed this aspect changed slightly but replaced with Bainshees and Mana Enchanters/Eldritch.

Aside from camping keeps and towers to farm realm points, these control points were flipped just as often as control points are flipped in GW2. And now, Keeps and Towers in DAoC change hands so regularly, I don’t see why anyone would feel anything special about taking these points.

As it is now, Keeps and Towers are merely tools to help get Realm Points… Getting RANKS in DAoC has and always will be the point of focus.

As far as Guild interface? DAoC had the worst interface possible for guild management. It was all command line with TEXT feedback on command use similar to working Commands at DOS Prompt.

While I agree that it would be nice for feedback from the guards on invaders assaulting, or some indication on what a guild has claimed. But this is really unnecessary as there is no real benefit to claiming other than using your Art of War to enhance your game play and those allies near your holdings.

Eh, your wrong. GW2 WvW is far superior to DAoC RvR. You just mentally reminisce about DAoC because it was so new and fresh for its time. I highly doubt you would prefer it over WvW to be honest, its just nostalgic to you so you think you desire it more.

Its like Burning Crusade in WoW. I quit WoW, hate WoW now, hate what WoW has become….but I will never regret Burning Crusade. By far the most fun I ever had in my entire gaming life. I tell myself I would do anything to go back to those days…and I feel like I do…but I would not want to go back with the MMO knowledge that I have now. I would have to have my mind erased to be able to go back and truly enjoy it like I did when it was in its prime.

Brehon.4085:

DAoC RvR:
Long term character progression from realm ranks.
Better map design-made roaming viable
No queue system
No culling/ invisible army

I’m curious, and sorta doubtful at this point that the culling issue can even be fixed. It is game breaking to me.
But game was designed for pve first and foremost, and it shows. At least game is f2play, and I’ll likely stay with it till ESO comes out next year.

Lotta truth to the nostalgia comment, but other than having an open field map with siege and 3 sides fighting…WvW is severally lacking compared to DAoC’s RvR system.
Another example: Orbs were suppose to be a relic type mechanic, correct? Now we don’t even have the orbs.

Better map design in DAoC? You mean Emain Macha? because no one ever went to the other borderlands. The maps are the same in GW2 for the sake of balance…but I would like it if they had like 5 maps or something that rotated…I agree that the maps do get repetitive but eh what can you do.

People will never realize the true need for a Q system. Oh well, maybe someday.

Culling sucks, completely agree.

They got rid of orbs because of hackers. Also the orbs in GW2 were dumb and made Eternal Battlegrounds worthless. So glad they removed them it was the best thing they ever did in this game thus far.

Now that orbs lopsidedness has been removed, server transfers curbed, and the match-ups starting to settle in, my three biggest complaints for WvW (with included solutions) are as follows, in order:

Problem 1) WvW maps are way too small — no sense of scale, no journey, can respond to any area on the map within seconds to two minutes, the threat of death without resurrection is virtually meaningless.

Solution 1) Create massive WvW maps with keeps, castles, PvP/PvE dungeons and areas (almost completely avoidable), and some open planes with no NPCs. Make travel times deep into enemy territory take ~12-15 minutes with no stops — dying out in enemy territory without a res should be punishing.

Problem 2) Outside of taking keeps, there is nothing to do or fight for in WvW.

Solution 2) With the larger maps introduced in Solution 1, many intertwining WvW objectives can be implemented. Orbs of power can make their return as the hardest objective to capture and made even harder to defend (orbs don’t like being outside of their rightful castles — ouch). Add WvW dungeons with other objectives that can strengthen siege or provide temporary boosts to players’ power/defense, and control certain portals to specific places in the WvW map. Etc, etc… give us lots to do.

Problem 3) Complete sense of anonymity reduces rivalries.

Solution 3) Add WvW ranks and progression, introduce weekly leaderboards sortable by guild, server, or player including: most heals/kills/captures/longest held/least deaths, etc. and give people something to boast about as both an individual and as a server or guild. To make this all worthwhile, introduce the option for players to have aliases in WvW or simply show their player names when targeted. To limit abuse, disallow communication between servers when either host party is in WvW.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

Now that orbs lopsidedness has been removed, server transfers curbed, and the match-ups starting to settle in, my three biggest complaints for WvW (with included solutions) are as follows, in order:

Problem 1) WvW maps are way too small — no sense of scale, no journey, can respond to any area on the map within seconds to two minutes, the threat of death without resurrection is virtually meaningless.

Solution 1) Create massive WvW maps with keeps, castles, PvP/PvE dungeons and areas (almost completely avoidable), and some open planes with no NPCs. Make travel times deep into enemy territory take ~12-15 minutes with no stops — dying out in enemy territory without a res should be punishing.

Problem 2) Outside of taking keeps, there is nothing to do or fight for in WvW.

Solution 2) With the larger maps introduced in Solution 1, many intertwining WvW objectives can be implemented. Orbs of power can make their return as the hardest objective to capture and made even harder to defend (orbs don’t like being outside of their rightful castles — ouch). Add WvW dungeons with other objectives that can strengthen siege or provide temporary boosts to players’ power/defense, and control certain portals to specific places in the WvW map. Etc, etc… give us lots to do.

Problem 3) Complete sense of anonymity reduces rivalries.

Solution 3) Add WvW ranks and progression, introduce weekly leaderboards sortable by guild, server, or player including: most heals/kills/captures/longest held/least deaths, etc. and give people something to boast about as both an individual and as a server or guild. To make this all worthwhile, introduce the option for players to have aliases in WvW or simply show their player names when targeted. To limit abuse, disallow communication between servers when either host party is in WvW.

I like your ideas. But traveling deep into enemy territory taking 12-15 minutes with no stops? I don’t think you realize how massive that would be or how long 12-15 minutes really is.

“…complete sense of anonymity reduces rivalries.”

very good point!

hobbes.6178:

I like your ideas. But traveling deep into enemy territory taking 12-15 minutes with no stops? I don’t think you realize how massive that would be or how long 12-15 minutes really is.

Fair enough. I tend to think big as WvW should be big. The timing is arbitrary. It just needs to “feel” like a journey to go from the heart of your territory to the heart of an opponent’s.

Right now, we’re talking ~3 minutes gets you to any objective on the map. Not so epic.

Me and my guild leader claimed Anz in our borderlands map one night when no one was really on. For two hours we kept up Speldans and had a constant stream of supply. We even maintained the Dredge camp nearby. We had Fortified Walls, defensive siege, the works. The two of us held that tower and even participated in a somewhat hilarious 5 man breach of Stonemist’s Northwest wall (didn’t get much farther after that :U).

I agree with you. I’d like the map to feel a bit more persistent. Only Stonemist sees regular permanence, but I’d like to get on with a small party of guildies and hold a tower for awhile. We were only mucking around that night, because we would have never sunk so much effort and resources into an outpost like that otherwise. The frequency with which towers and keeps get flipped takes the worth out of it.

I love wuvswuv. It’s by far my most favorite thing about the game. But they could definitely make it more engaging, and I really look forward to that. They could definitely start by reintroducing a more balanced system for the Orbs.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

hobbes.6178:

I like your ideas. But traveling deep into enemy territory taking 12-15 minutes with no stops? I don’t think you realize how massive that would be or how long 12-15 minutes really is.

Fair enough. I tend to think big as WvW should be big. The timing is arbitrary. It just needs to “feel” like a journey to go from the heart of your territory to the heart of an opponent’s.

Right now, we’re talking ~3 minutes gets you to any objective on the map. Not so epic.

I agree. They seem to have them a bit smaller to promote constant battles but I would definitely prefer a bigger map. Would also like them to be different but I understand why they aren’t.

Are you people crazy? Don’t you remmeber sitting your kitten 10 mins in a keep for a AoE port after you died? The ridiculous grind for ToA kitten? (well that is inc now on GW2) Or maybe how you were useless under realm rank/level X? How god awfully painful it was to balance resistances and get a crafter to make you kitten only to have it replaced for new kitten later?

But yeah, I’m sure making keeps, at least some of them, a more permanent capture would definitely make things more meaningful.

It’s funny, on the PvE side we had a vocal minority of WoW fans wanting the game to be more like WoW, with rewards and progression and stuff. (well… I guess they got their wish, kinda.)

On the WvW side we have this vocal minority of DAOC fans wanting the game to be more like DAOC…

Larger maps? No thanks, I prefer to play the game, not spend 80% of my time running to the next fight.

GW2 was designed with a philosophy of reducing barrier to entry. Smaller maps promote more action and enemy contact.

Can it be improved? Sure it can. I’ve made suggestions myself. But making the game more like DOAC is not what I want. I would prefer the game stay like GW2. But better.