Both side keeps on DBL cannot have their inner walls hit by siege built to hit the outside walls. This was a problem on the old Alpine BL’s hills keep that the new side keeps on DBL were designed to avoid.
Yet with the rampart/garrison on DBL, it has become common to place catapults right against the northeast outer walls because the splash damage from them will also take down an inner northeast wall. I’m not sure such a design was intended because the side keeps do not have this issue.
If Anet redesigns DBL, this problem should be fixed. The rampart keep should not be easier to siege than the side keeps.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
That is a good point you bring up. I haven’t done exact measurements, but fire/air keep do seem a lot bigger then earth keep, which I really don’t understand considering its the most important one on the map.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Considering that earth keep is the defender’s HOME bl, defender’s should get the advantage there with a keep that can’t be so easily sieged as the sides.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
If the catapults couldn’t be built directly against the wall, they would be in range of the north cannon on the east inner gate as well as other defensive siege. I wouldn’t mind the high-reward assault spot if it was also high-risk.
However, for the sake of consistency, it would be nice if the hitbox for the inner wall matched the wall itself instead of extending down onto the rocks below.
However, for the sake of consistency, it would be nice if the hitbox for the inner wall matched the wall itself instead of extending down onto the rocks below.
I doubt it is the wall extending below the floor. The catapult splash area is just that large.
cata splash damage should hit friendly siege…
To avoid proxy cata…. Probably the same for the treb.
More friendly fire (at least for siege against siege) could be interesting.
cata splash damage should hit friendly siege…
To avoid proxy cata…. Probably the same for the treb.
More friendly fire (at least for siege against siege) could be interesting.
Siege vs players would be fine too.
Make it so that kittens cant fight under their own arrowcarts and cannons.
I’m not for nerfing ac or to remove it.
But yes, limit siege in some area is ok for me (max 3 siege in some radius), and friendly fire with siege why not. This will probably limit ac in open field or fight with the protection of friendly siege.
And the siege limit will help the defender because ennemy can’t no more spam 10 cata at the same place to open the wall.
Air keep is a bigger problem because there are walls on inner and outter that cannot be defended. Also, if the enemy can hit double walls you can too which makes it easier for the home players to cap it back .
The air keep is a far bigger joke than the earth keep. There are walls on both the inner and outer that are impossible to defend on siege (south inner and northeast outer). Southwest outer wall is also tough to defend on siege if they have their catapults really high up. The double cata spot at earth keep is pretty easy to defend against. If you are doing a good job checking for white swords and scouting, the double cata wall at earth keep won’t work often.
Airkeep’s problems are caused by proxy catapults, which are a problem at virtually every structure. The keep itself doesn’t need to be redesigned anymore than anything else with walls—that is, adding a buffer of spikes or such so that siege can’t be placed directly on the wall.
The double cata spot at earth keep is pretty easy to defend against. If you are doing a good job checking for white swords and scouting, the double cata wall at earth keep won’t work often.
The double cata spot at earth simply means attackers gain the time/supply advantage of not having to set up a second siege site for an inner wall. That translates into less time needed to attack earth keep compared to a side keep. Whether or not defenders are “doing a good job” doesn’t really play into this comparison because it is about time usage, not ease/difficulty of defense.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
It is harder for the map’s owners to defend Air and Fire Keeps. As such it is necessary for there to be no double cata spots especially since the Waypoints in those Keeps no longer work for the home server.
Double Cata spots on Earth Keep is less of an issue since the home server owns the Waypoint into it as well as their Spawn is a minute walk from that Keep. Attackers however have much larger distances to traverse to apply pressure. As a result I feel that this is not an issue at all.
Double Cata spots on Earth Keep is less of an issue since the home server owns the Waypoint into it as well as their Spawn is a minute walk from that Keep. Attackers however have much larger distances to traverse to apply pressure. As a result I feel that this is not an issue at all.
Haha just barely. The time it take to go to garri is pretty similar due to the waypoints in bay/hills. Which says it all about how crappy the map layout is.
Not sure this is a bad thing really considering you can break through the outer walls of the other two keeps using trebs that have no counter spots. No such high ground available against Rampart.
The cata spot is a lot closer to the north spawn than the side keep waypoints, too. Probably be 3 minutes from fire waypoint and 2 from air waypoint, if you had a reasonable zerg to break through the barricades. Otherwise it’d be closer to 5 and 4 minutes.
A treb can be countered by a shield generator because it fires so slowly. At least, the damage can be mitigated to the point where a strike team with a ballista can take it out quickly enough.
Double Cata spots on Earth Keep is less of an issue since the home server owns the Waypoint into it as well as their Spawn is a minute walk from that Keep. Attackers however have much larger distances to traverse to apply pressure. As a result I feel that this is not an issue at all.
Haha just barely. The time it take to go to garri is pretty similar due to the waypoints in bay/hills. Which says it all about how crappy the map layout is.
Here is where the ‘WvW tactics’ that players talk so much about here come into play. One person could go tap Air / Fire Keep and all of a sudden, your opponents that you kill after ambushing with your main group(s) now have to walk an entire map to return to Earth Keep.
Catapults can be countered by shield generators too. If you have those in the right place it doesn’t really matter whether you can hit inner and outer walls from the same spot.
There’s two broad situations in which to consider the balance of these siege spots – with and without strong defense. The Rampart cata spot is pretty easy to counter so long as there’s anyone there to do it. If there isn’t, it’s by far the quickest way to break into any of the three keeps (but also takes the longest to walk to for invading servers).
The fire and air keep treb spots, by comparison, don’t get you in as fast but the only way to kill them is rushing them or open field siege.
Catapults, especially proxy catapults, fire too fast for a shield generator to block much of their damage. They can be mitigated but I wouldn’t call it a counter.
Catapults, especially proxy catapults, fire too fast for a shield generator to block much of their damage. They can be mitigated but I wouldn’t call it a counter.
You dont use the block the though. That’s not the true strength of a shield generator.
The thing is that a single shield generator can much faster to the point that it can disable 50 catapults permanently by knocking people off them (they dont have time to shoot between sheild gen force balls).
Sidenote: Assuming you can cram 50 catapults in a 240 radius, hehehe.
If you can hit them with the force balls, can’t they just kill the generator/you? If the catapults are right up on the wall then you won’t be able to knock people off. If they’re a good distance away, you won’t be able to reach.
The situation you described is a defender’s dream but I don’t think it happens much in a practical sense.
Cata splash damage on uncommon places was never fixed (Anet love to make easy stuf), it was intended, with a good force and siege spam, would stress any group inside, in this game stuff is ment to rotate just for the sake of ppt.
It is not a problem, it is a feature, a cheap one but still…..
cata splash damage should hit friendly siege…
To avoid proxy cata…. Probably the same for the treb.
More friendly fire (at least for siege against siege) could be interesting.
That is impossible, i would go to your server EB keep build siege and destroy your server siege
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Yes, we need to be able to control who is on the team…
Like WvW based on guild… Then you can kick out people who are trolling…
Don’t be able to kick people who troll is a big issue I think…
It’s for this they create this stupid auto upgrade, to avoid “troll”…
@Sich.7103, That is how WvW should had worked since day one, being guild based and making guilds more proud on holding and mantaining their stuff, but moving on and hoping for good changes.
Guilds should have more control for siege in their sector, a few examples:
-Replace siege positioning.
-Define flags to request from nearby players to friendly drop X siege in flag spot, and only that siege can be doplyed in that zone, that would avoid trolled to drop tons of rams in walls so no more siege can be builted for defense.
-Sacrifice siege for supply.
-Lock and unlock some siege for guild use, as golems if parked inside.
-remove timmers for siege would be nice…
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
@Sich.7103, That is how WvW should had worked since day one, being guild based and making guilds more proud on holding and mantaining their stuff, but moving on and hoping for good changes.
Guilds should have more control for siege in their sector, a few examples:
-Replace siege positioning.
-Define flags to request from nearby players to friendly drop X siege in flag spot, and only that siege can be doplyed in that zone, that would avoid trolled to drop tons of rams in walls so no more siege can be builted for defense.
-Sacrifice siege for supply.
-Lock and unlock some siege for guild use, as golems if parked inside.
-remove timmers for siege would be nice…
Really? Lets limit player participation even further…
The guild changes made in hot to wvw have been a disaster. Remove barriers for players to participate, dont add them.
@Sich.7103, That is how WvW should had worked since day one, being guild based and making guilds more proud on holding and mantaining their stuff, but moving on and hoping for good changes.
Guilds should have more control for siege in their sector, a few examples:
-Replace siege positioning.
-Define flags to request from nearby players to friendly drop X siege in flag spot, and only that siege can be doplyed in that zone, that would avoid trolled to drop tons of rams in walls so no more siege can be builted for defense.
-Sacrifice siege for supply.
-Lock and unlock some siege for guild use, as golems if parked inside.
-remove timmers for siege would be nice…
Really? Lets limit player participation even further…
The guild changes made in hot to wvw have been a disaster. Remove barriers for players to participate, dont add them.
How the above ideas would limit players actions?
Player could still build siege and use it…. so??
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
You can already hit Gari both inner and outer from two places with siege. As far as Hills is concerned (air keep), you can hit inner and outer from one place. Now, Bay (fire keep) is a different story.
I always liked that there were a few spots that you could hit outer and inner walls. The spots were obvious (and the first place people would check) making it riskier to use them.
I think hills did it best since you were on a ledge. Very little room to escape. I remember a number of times where I went 1vX defending hills and sent groups of people flying to their deaths.
