Guild Wars 2

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

The problem is the mentality that it matters. PPT matters jack all. It’s kitten that people come in here demanding that my time is somehow worth less (T1 NA matchup is still extremely active at NA late night/early morning, still occasionally seeing queues). Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT. Those people make WvW boring and dull for the rest of us. No loss for me.

Reverence.6915:

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

The problem is the mentality that it matters. PPT matters jack all. It’s kitten that people come in here demanding that my time is somehow worth less (T1 NA matchup is still extremely active at NA late night/early morning, still occasionally seeing queues). Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT. Those people make WvW boring and dull for the rest of us. No loss for me.

Whow, 3 contradictions/mistakes in 5 lines, not bad.

1. You request for others PPT should not matter and complain that it makes your time less worthy to weight PPT by the number of players playing?
2. You argue that it would harm the very active T1 NA late night/early morning, but if it is active, then a weight of PPT by players playing would give it a high weight.
3. The arument is not “Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT”, but because “PPT is meaninless to most players, if it is dominated by the times with the fewest players”

Reverence.6915:

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

The problem is the mentality that it matters. PPT matters jack all. It’s kitten that people come in here demanding that my time is somehow worth less (T1 NA matchup is still extremely active at NA late night/early morning, still occasionally seeing queues). Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT. Those people make WvW boring and dull for the rest of us. No loss for me.

Nor is your time more valuable than the next person’s time, that kind of answer is already nullified since every person’s time is just as important as the next. In addition, NA T1 does not represent the other tiers, let alone WvW as a whole. It’s the same mentality Anet has carried out when investigating things revolving WvW, completely dismissing the other tiers and servers in some cases.

And you say people who’re taking up this issue are dull and boring? – Well, you won’t have many to fight with that kind of narrowminded mentality my friend.

DeWolfe.2174:

See… here’s the thing, who’s “morning” do you speak of?

In the EU? Everyones.

This isnt about some individuals “primetime” and their opposite “offtime”.

Its about certain periods of a 24h cycle that WvW is having so low and unbalanced population that the high PPT cap become broken and disrupt decently balanced matches overall. Low population should equal low PPT cap.

Simple as that. Yet people still argue about players. This is about WvW.

I honestly dont know how to make this any more abundantly clear.

I play during all timezones, on a rotating schedule. On the few days I actually feel like PPTing, I never do so during primetime, because it’s so pointless. On a bad day of playing during the “night”, I easily contribute 2x the points per manhour of a good session of PPTing during primetime. On good nights, I could contribute 5x as much points. That’s why people complain about nightcapping.

Dawdler.8521:

DeWolfe.2174:

See… here’s the thing, who’s “morning” do you speak of?

In the EU? Everyones.

This isnt about some individuals “primetime” and their opposite “offtime”.

Its about certain periods of a 24h cycle that WvW is having so low and unbalanced population that the high PPT cap become broken and disrupt decently balanced matches overall. Low population should equal low PPT cap.

Simple as that. Yet people still argue about players. This is about WvW.

I honestly dont know how to make this any more abundantly clear.

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

If there are not players to play with and against no matter what time you log in for a 24/7 game mode, you are doing it wrong.

ASLO , This being about WvW, depending on which server you are on, the " slow time" is different.

lil devils x.6071:

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

I do not see how you would not be able to, considering T1 NA can queue a map any time of day or night at times, and I thought there were more playing on EU servers than NA….

There are large NA guilds, PST guilds, OCX guilds, Sea guilds, Early EU guilds, Late Eu guilds .. and that covers every time zone BTW. If done right, you should have players to play with and against no matter when you log in.

lil devils x.6071:

Dayra.7405:

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

I do not see how you would not be able to, considering T1 NA can queue a map any time of day or night at times, and I thought there were more playing on EU servers than NA….

Guess why we always speak about a serious problem for EU…

lil devils x.6071:

Dayra.7405:

lil devils x.6071:

It is only unbalanced during certain hours due to having too many servers open. Reduce the number of servers and have Temporary overflow maps in use for actual gameplay (More EBG’s, for example) during peak hours . Problem solved.

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

I do not see how you would not be able to, considering T1 NA can queue a map any time of day or night at times, and I thought there were more playing on EU servers than NA….

Maybe the total is higher, but EU has player from mostly 4 timezones UTC+0 (UK, Portugal) till UTC+3 (already Moscow), and not many see a point in getting up in THEIR night to PPT against doors.
Don’t forget: EU-night is NA-prime, why should someone fight doors in EU, when he can have the best time in NA?

Correct me, if I am wrong (wasn’t in WvW during the night for a while), but currently my server is in EU-T1 and the T1-server have around 15-40 people per team in the night in TS.

Entenkommando.5208:

lil devils x.6071:

Dayra.7405:

I am seriously in doubt, that if you merge all 27 EU-server into 3 server, you can even queue 1 map in EU-night, not talking about 4 (a whole match) or even more (more than 1 match).

I do not see how you would not be able to, considering T1 NA can queue a map any time of day or night at times, and I thought there were more playing on EU servers than NA….

Guess why we always speak about a serious problem for EU…

It is a serious issue for most NA servers as well, as this is non existent outside of T1.
When you look at the game this RvR was based on ( DaoC) they did not attempt to have this many servers open for good reason. It does not work this way.

This server system does not work with many servers, it only works with limited servers.

They can either drop the server system or reduce the number of servers. If they drop the server based system, they could allow for WvW matches going on all the time on with shorter duration that players could join at will. In that scenario, have them only last for the duration of normal time zone based raids to allow for what you do to count when you play and take the final score after every timezone match.

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

It shows when your server is stronger and weaker too. Not all tiers have 24/7 coverage, T6-T8 are this way and they do night capping when the other server falls asleep. The funny thing is it happens at odd times for each server, so to say that its something that can be fixed with the current system… No, it can’t

Solution would be to get rid of all the servers, and make something like mega server or dedicated server alliances like each reset, you get RNG to play out for what server will be green, red, blue… and they all get group together in various instances of the same map. This then would make the buffs from WvW for the servers make no sense, so they will likely not do that.

People have been asking for the lower tier servers to be merged together to make up for the night capping on lower tier servers, but they’ve been asking for this since when? The last year or longer, and we’ve not even heard of ANet even thinking about this.

KayCee.4653:

we’ve not even heard of ANet even thinking about this.

Not totally true. First time I saw ANet accepting the presence and problematic of Night Capping:
""We recognize that there are areas that can be made better.
…
Hand in hand with population imbalance is scoring. The current scoring structure allows scores to run away, a problem that is compounded with night capping where it is possible for a team who has recruited players from different time zones to conquer everything in off-hours leading to one side getting ahead while most players are asleep or at work. Comebacks are difficult and it is hard to make up for that lost time that you spend on your real life needs."
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Invitational-Statement-from-John-Corpening-game-director-for-World-vs-World/first
and there was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Scoring-Discussion as 1 of the 2 mayor input for the overhaul. (The other was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance)

Dayra.7405:

KayCee.4653:

we’ve not even heard of ANet even thinking about this.

Not totally true. First time I saw ANet accepting the presence and problematic of Night Capping:
""We recognize that there are areas that can be made better.
…
Hand in hand with population imbalance is scoring. The current scoring structure allows scores to run away, a problem that is compounded with night capping where it is possible for a team who has recruited players from different time zones to conquer everything in off-hours leading to one side getting ahead while most players are asleep or at work. Comebacks are difficult and it is hard to make up for that lost time that you spend on your real life needs."
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Invitational-Statement-from-John-Corpening-game-director-for-World-vs-World/first
and there was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Scoring-Discussion as 1 of the 2 mayor input for the overhaul. (The other was https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Solution-to-fix-the-population-imbalance)

That’s one place, yet repeatedly in guild chats even in that one with “all the ‘cool’ WvW updates” recently… blah… that they are focusing on other things and not population issues right now. If they came out today in the next 5 minutes and said, “Yes, we are changing servers and WvW population issues, and that we’ll be discussing it this week’s guild chat” I’d be like WOOT! FINALLY!…

But I’ve learned to take everything said by them in proportions of what is true and what they are just saying to get the masses to think they are listening. I’ve yet to see anything that says they are even trying to make it better, let alone that they really care enough to do the hard steps necessary to fix the issue with population and server nightcaps. Until then, I’m pretty sure they’ll be like… “Okays they aren’t talking about nightcapping lets focus on ESports league…”

But all the ranting and bad attitude aside. The course they are on, we’ll likely be having this discussion again in 2017 or by then WvW will be gone for good… Meh… seems they focus more in PvP and PvE than WvW.

Dayra.7405:

The current scoring structure allows scores to run away, a problem that is compounded with night capping where it is possible for a team who has recruited players from different time zones to conquer everything in off-hours leading to one side getting ahead while most players are asleep or at work.

I’m sorry but isn’t this is what you are meant to do? Recruit players to help for times you’re not in. I’ve been WvW’ing 90% of my play time since launch and guilds that played exclusively in WvW always asked me, “when do you play? We have a player shortage at 2-4 am PST and getting hammered during this time, can you help out then?”

This is common sense and I don’t get what the issue is as all server’s are free to do this.

On a side note, before the mega servers came into play, you’d often see people calling for reinforcements in LA during these times of night capping but you can’t exactly do that now without alerting the enemy. :P

lil devils x.6071:

There are servers for different parts of the world.. the issue is not everyone works/plays the same hours. When people on the east coast US are going to bed, people from California are logging in, then you have the people who get off work at 2-3 am and come on to wind down just like those who get off work at 6 pm..

The game runs 24 hours, just like the real world and the real people in it. Some people work nights, some work days.. there is no point in trying to make someone in Florida play on a server in Germany with the lagfest from hell simply because they work nights.

The issue is every server that is open should be able to have population 24/7, and also not force people to wait in a queue to play during busy hours. There are remedies for this, they just have to want to solve it.

No matter what time you log in, you should have players to play with and against no matter what server you are on.

By different parts of the world I mean asia. Pacific players are not the problem.

Reverence.6915:

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

The problem is the mentality that it matters. PPT matters jack all. It’s kitten that people come in here demanding that my time is somehow worth less (T1 NA matchup is still extremely active at NA late night/early morning, still occasionally seeing queues). Your argument is that people leave because they lost some PPT. Those people make WvW boring and dull for the rest of us. No loss for me.

That’s entirely wrong. It isn’t that mentality is that the score matters. It is that PPT currently is a reflection of a server’s population and their potential for good fights.

What players want is good fights and nightcapping discourages that. I know you’re in NA T1 so maybe you haven’t experienced first hand how a true lack of coverage in most timezones translates into poor fights. You can possibly relate with the concept that a waypointed SMC discourages fights in EB. Now take that to the rest of the maps. People leave because they log into play and find their keeps owned and upgraded by the enemy. You’re put at an extreme disadvantage for fights every time you log in to play. That’s also a reason why this new slower upgrade system has been really great for fights.

There’s also two other problems with night capping.

The first is that if you are on a server that has a boost in score from night capping and you are in a stagnant matchup which happens a lot in NA, you might be hurting the game experience of the other players on your server because your night capping is propping up your score and glicko rating above what the rest of your coverage should be at.

The second is that to counter night capping a server has to recruit an entire guild, or two, just to make that timezone equal. Doing this destabilizes the server those players came from, typically from a lower tier, which drastically lowers the chance that newer players on a depleted server would even enter WvW.

The complains about night capping are very idiotic .
you guys complain cuz your hard work at prime time gets ruined when you sleep.
did you ever bothered to think the player who plays at your night time are also working hard to get their points back.

many servers are weak(no offence to the servers) in a fight so they can’t handle during prime time, so they manage at night , just because you are sleeping doesn’t mean they are not allowed to play during night.

if you have problem with night cap servers , destroy them during night , a few night should be enough.

it’s all strategy , there are no such thing as “Night Capping” …

besides as many suggestions like during non prime : close map , reward less, other reward map etc etc will drive those night layers away from wvw cuz they are the ones trying to get some points for their server. It’s all about ppt that is the point of wvw anyway. so if they can’t help server because of a non prime time zone they will loose interest.

if you want to stop night time point capping WORK FOR IT instead of lame excuses .

Shilajit.9023:

if you want to stop night time point capping WORK FOR IT instead of lame excuses .

How large is your NA-night force? Our EU-night force is even in T1 less than 40 people per server. These 40 people (or not) usually do a score difference of 2k/h with PvD whereas 400 people fighting in prime are really dominate if they make 400/h.

A tenth of the people doing 5-times as much points per hour is the reality.
This is neither fair nor a lame excuse, this is bad game design.

Shilajit.9023:

many suggestions like … will drive those night layers away

If there is only the choice of either driving the 40 night-player or the 400 prime-player away, I would prefer the 400 would stay.

Shilajit.9023:

The complains about night capping are very idiotic .

Your argument “Leave me my advantage or I will leave the game” fits this better.

Shilajit.9023:

it’s all strategy , there are no such thing as “Night Capping” …

Yes night-capping is the one and only winning strategy since 3.5years. Everything else is completely irrelevant compared to night-capping. I would call this extremely boring and definitely not an anyhow interesting strategy.

It’s really time to open up space for the development of other strategies by nerfing this imba-strategy.

Dayra you misunderstood my point.
1st of all I’m in EU I hop server many time for to play with few friends I have in my list.
this is coming from 2014 sfr wvw player .

during 2014 season 2 tourney sfr was the strongest server there was with all the time player active on the map because many players played from different time zone.
I play from +5:30 gmt so guess my prime time.
even played overnight (#nolife) many times to keep that server from dropping.
season 3 was kitten though.
I remember commanders commanding 18hours a day. so git good

2nd : 400 player vs 40 idea isn’t real. if I was a business man I would try to hold that 40 players as well as the other 400 .
it’s is a flat loss on my part if I just force that 40 players to stop playing.
who doesn’t play it’s their choice out of 400 but I won’t stop those 40 players to stop playing because they r playing at non prime time.

Leave me my advantage or I will leave the game
isn’t this what you guys are saying? like
“game is kitten if anet don’t stop server from being active at non prime time”
If there is only the choice of either driving the 40 night-player or the 400 prime-player away, I would prefer the 400 would stay.
^^ see what you said ?
it’s that 400 majority players are saying “Leave me my advantage or I will leave the game”
those 40 players r saying don’t stop me from playing in my prime time.

a mmo game company will try to keep their player base alive , not force them to stop enjoying a game mods entirely because another player base asked for.

No, I say: drop the penalty (of 0.7 score points per player) the prime-time player have against off-time player (~7 score points per player).

Dayra.7405:

No, I say: drop the penalty (of 0.7 score points per player) the prime-time player have against off-time player (~7 score points per player).

there are no penalty for not playing .
it’s just strategic counter.

let me tell you 1 thing:
you prime time guys just all want advantages to your self.
you do ppt during prime
+
you also do ppk during
because yes you can win a fight
than want to go to sleep stopping the other server from playing because the issue “nightcap”

so you are kinda shutting a server entirely for a match up because they want to do ppt instead of fight during prime time. giving them no chance to recover points at all.

hypothetically if it was a war , I would nuke my enemy during night & will try to capture locations at night since , most of the enemy will be relaxed during night if I can’t fight back during prime time. very simple strategy..

Shilajit.9023:

hypothetically if it was a war , I would nuke my enemy during night .

Ok, all said that is needed to be said.

Shilajit.9023:

so you are kinda shutting a server entirely for a match up because they want to do ppt instead of fight during prime time. giving them no chance to recover points at all.

You’re right, we have no designated game mode for that yet. I’m thinking of something like PvS – Players vs Sandcastles. But those who rather want to sit in their Castles won’t be too happy with that as the Karma Shoevellers will take more Castles than they can – so we need yet another game mode PvO – Players vs Outdoors in which you can buy guild upgrades that let you send npc caravans to other sandcastles.

Shilajit.9023:

hypothetically if it was a war , I would nuke my enemy during night & will try to capture locations at night since , most of the enemy will be relaxed during night if I can’t fight back during prime time. very simple strategy..

Luckily this is a game and most people want to see decently fair matches.

Apply that logic to a soccer match instead and try to have it make sense . Without involving nukes.

I’m all for 24/7 play but the only way to achieve that is to bridge with other timezones and spread it out to all of the servers. What we have now is guns for hire or teams that just show up at odd hours to do their capping rather than fight.

Dawdler.8521:

Shilajit.9023:

hypothetically if it was a war , I would nuke my enemy during night & will try to capture locations at night since , most of the enemy will be relaxed during night if I can’t fight back during prime time. very simple strategy..

Luckily this is a game and most people want to see decently fair matches.

Apply that logic to a soccer match instead and try to have it make sense . Without involving nukes.

hmm
yes we all want decently fair matches but isn’t it unfair to those who plays during your off time if you close wvw or reward less for playing?

Also we cannot really put the logic of soccer match in wvw reason is , those 3 server are not in agreement with each other to play during 1 server’s prime time only & then stop playing other time because 1 server demands .
tell me how is that logic fair?

I can put soccer logic to a gvg match as we agree to fight 10v10, 15v15 , 20v20 etc & select a particular time for it.
But not open world pvp it is a war afterall.

one more thing the word “nuke” I used because many people use it in game as an alternative to " a spell or skill that is capable of dealing a large amount of damage to its target"
I’m sure you heard it a lot from your commander if you are a wvw player , don’t try to find a wrong meaning behind it.

@Jana
you can’t force people to stop playing just because they enjoy pvo or pve or whatever they play in wvw , they paid for it same as you. so tell me why the things you want matters more then those players who plays at your night time?

Zenral.3958:

Nightcapping ruins fighting morale for the rest of the servers and makes people shun WvW altogether, when people turn away from something due to nightcapping (Which is a fact, like it or not) then yes, it does become a problem.

Night capping is not what is putting people off WvW.

Anet will not change this, as they have no way to make it fair, WvW numbers are already at an all time low, if they exclude 1 or 2 groups of people from playing, then they lose even more numbers, but lets say for arguments sake they did stop night capping, the group of players who are currently QQing about the night capping, will then CAP everything within a few hours of reset, and hold it all week, they will then be back on the forums QQing that Anet need to fix WvW as no one is recapping and there is no one to fight against,

Its a Global based game, and like it or not, it would be suicide for Anet to block out 1 or 2 timezones to make a few other players happy,

Dawdler.8521:

Shilajit.9023:

hypothetically if it was a war , I would nuke my enemy during night & will try to capture locations at night since , most of the enemy will be relaxed during night if I can’t fight back during prime time. very simple strategy..

Luckily this is a game and most people want to see decently fair matches.

It is fair, the game lets you play at any time you want, not like some of the suggestions in some threads to “restrict or disable” play at certain times of the day. If you want to play at low peak with 100 buddies you’re free to do so, nobody can or should stop you. This is as fair as it can get.

In regards to the scoring I can see how that is a bit silly and should be addressed. I’m all for equality in the score as well as the game play, but not for restrictions in when I, you or anyone else can play.

Shilajit.9023:

@Jana
you can’t force people to stop playing just because they enjoy pvo or pve or whatever they play in wvw , they paid for it same as you. so tell me why the things you want matters more then those players who plays at your night time?

I’m on EU. 3 timezones and nightcappers. Servers who lose every fight during prime and even every of their T3 structures as they don’t even know how to defend shouldn’t come in second (I have been on 2 nightcapping servers – it was very boring).

ETA: I get that real night capping Karmatrains probably aren’t that “visible” on NA – but very much on EU. So if you say “there is no such thing” you probably mean “on NA”. I have no idea how to solve this for NA but for EU the approach of PPT scaling depending on how many of your server are online during that time would be rather smart and it would also probably buff smaller servers in general. But then again I have to think some more about it – maybe it could be exploited or favour the smaller server too much.

Because it’s like playing a game of Monopoly by yourself with no other players. You can cheat the dice, buy every property on the map, steal from the bank and all with no penalty. If you ever played a real game of Monopoly and you don’t end up in a fight, then you are not doing it right. Hence WvW should be the same, you take your chances on even settings and you see if you win or lose.

In most cases people have to do things like work, sleep, eat. That also means there are going to be large slices of time on most servers when there are few if any people in WvW.

Night capping is when a group goes around the borders capturing everything they can. The locations upgrade and when people from the other servers get back on it is difficult for them to cap their stuff back.

The problem is a small number of people can make more points in a night than a full borderland can do during day. That produces a strong bias, night cappers are powerful in WvW, far more powerful than they should be.

I predicted these issues a couple of months before GW2 went live. They are far more difficult to fix than they would seem, and I don’t see the devs managing it at all.

This is why I’m starting to spend less time in WvW. I see people from the enemy servers taking the time when most of the players on my server are offline, and take most if not everything. It sucks and is a down right bummer.

It would basically mean that people need to be in WvW 24/7 and that is impossible. Yet, I hope they fix this population issue soon. However being on T2 and T1 servers, I noticed they have some down time too. In those cases, its not as bad as it is on T6 – T8 servers. Yet, wow… We need to have all servers have roughly even if not equal coverage all the time. Then you’d do like T1 and T2 have often, zerg vs. zerg fights…

Enemies grabbing real estate while their opposition has troops in play is one thing. Enemies grabbing real estate while there’s no opposition is just crap. It’s not the same as people asking for opposition (prime time) when they play, it’s asking for an easier game. It’s up to the devs to fix this by either a) setting up limits to how many people can queue into WvW so that the sides are more evenly balanced, b) give the “nightcappers” weighted points based on the opposition on the map – zero opposition means zero points, c) build more servers to accommodate more time zones.

Almostfaceman.1804:

Enemies grabbing real estate while their opposition has troops in play is one thing. Enemies grabbing real estate while there’s no opposition is just crap. It’s not the same as people asking for opposition (prime time) when they play, it’s asking for an easier game. It’s up to the devs to fix this by either a) setting up limits to how many people can queue into WvW so that the sides are more evenly balanced, b) give the “nightcappers” weighted points based on the opposition on the map – zero opposition means zero points, c) build more servers to accommodate more time zones.

d) reduce the number of servers to a hand full and they play against each other. Example, T7 and T8 have about the population of 2 T2 servers put together. That would be two servers… And do the same for T4 – T6 servers as well. This would make it so that the fights are a bit more fairer and that there would likely be more coverage and people to play with all the time.

KayCee.4653:

d) reduce the number of servers to a hand full and they play against each other. Example, T7 and T8 have about the population of 2 T2 servers put together. That would be two servers… And do the same for T4 – T6 servers as well. This would make it so that the fights are a bit more fairer and that there would likely be more coverage and people to play with all the time.

Until people start to quit again.
I’ve been on gold EU 1-2 months ago and the coverage wasn’t that much different than in bronze or silver EU. But some have night cappers, others don’t. And yes some servers are still better when it comes to zerg fights.
There might be too many servers, but I would first fix what’s making people quit wvw before merging.

Jana.6831:

Until people start to quit again.
I’ve been on gold EU 1-2 months ago and the coverage wasn’t that much different than in bronze or silver EU. But some have night cappers, others don’t. And yes some servers are still better when it comes to zerg fights.
There might be too many servers, but I would first fix what’s making people quit wvw before merging.

I would say on NA, maybe… But I found on Darkhaven that people were out matched by Emery Bay and Maguuma and would just leave instead of going to the tag to play after getting wiped once. I found this to be the case on lower tier servers too. It is down right sad. You don’t see it as often on T1 and T2, but meh…

And yeah, some don’t like blob v blob fights… so they would likely leave WvW if that occurred.

KayCee.4653:

I would say on NA, maybe… But I found on Darkhaven that people were out matched by Emery Bay and Maguuma and would just leave instead of going to the tag to play after getting wiped once. I found this to be the case on lower tier servers too. It is down right sad. You don’t see it as often on T1 and T2, but meh…

And yeah, some don’t like blob v blob fights… so they would likely leave WvW if that occurred.

Yes, because anet wanted to destroy blobs and did that with buffing blobs. So it’s really hard to win a fight with a smaller group. It still is possible with a major effort but it was easier back in the day. As long as that stays as it is people will leave and servers will become smaller. If you make skill count again, then you give smaller groups a reason to stay. That is easier said than done, I know. But I’m certain that wvw will die no matter how many servers you merge if you leave the mechanics like they are.

Jana.6831:

Yes, because anet wanted to destroy blobs and did that with buffing blobs. So it’s really hard to win a fight with a smaller group. It still is possible with a major effort but it was easier back in the day. As long as that stays as it is people will leave and servers will become smaller. If you make skill count again, then you give smaller groups a reason to stay. That is easier said than done, I know. But I’m certain that wvw will die no matter how many servers you merge if you leave the mechanics like they are.

We both agree on that it will die no matter what happens to population solution that ANet comes out with. All because of the blob mechanics and because of the guild mechanics too.

I know a lot of players that stopped playing WvW and even left the game cause of the guild hall and having to need it for guild upgrades and needing to spend so much gold and time to just get to level 37 for something as simple as +5.

KayCee.4653:

We both agree on that it will die no matter what happens to population solution that ANet comes out with. All because of the blob mechanics and because of the guild mechanics too.

I know a lot of players that stopped playing WvW and even left the game cause of the guild hall and having to need it for guild upgrades and needing to spend so much gold and time to just get to level 37 for something as simple as +5.

Yes – the guild upgrades are another factor.
I mean I go into wvw – we’re maybe 10, the other 40 – I try to do something half-heartedly and leave again as it’s no use. Server merge right now would only prolong the dying – or maybe make it even faster – I don’t want to be merged with some of my ex servers

Jana.6831:

Yes – the guild upgrades are another factor.
I mean I go into wvw – we’re maybe 10, the other 40 – I try to do something half-heartedly and leave again as it’s no use. Server merge right now would only prolong the dying – or maybe make it even faster – I don’t want to be merged with some of my ex servers

This could explain why they aren’t dealing with WvW in force yet. Even from January 26 patch, they sort of half-heartedly fixed some things, but not really dealt with the core root problems with WvW and/or the guild set up it has.

What would explain what? Because I don’t play wvw anymore anet isn’t fixing anything?

Jana.6831:

What would explain what? Because I don’t play wvw anymore anet isn’t fixing anything?

ANet sorta nerf’d the dragon, centaur and turtle banners… They reduced cata costs slightly, and fixed proof of heroics… and fixed exploits that people were doing in mid air… and fixed issues with glitched walls, and made the Oasis PVE event easier…

They didn’t really fix anything to the root core of WvW though. The same issues that were around in 2014 when I started playing WvW, still exist.

KayCee.4653:

Jana.6831:

What would explain what? Because I don’t play wvw anymore anet isn’t fixing anything?

ANet sorta nerf’d the dragon, centaur and turtle banners… They reduced cata costs slightly, and fixed proof of heroics… and fixed exploits that people were doing in mid air… and fixed issues with glitched walls, and made the Oasis PVE event easier…

They didn’t really fix anything to the root core of WvW though. The same issues that were around in 2014 when I started playing WvW, still exist.

Yes. The problems started with the ferocity patch (April ‘14) and got worse with the stability nerf (can’t remember when ~ a bit over a year ago probably), got worse over the time due to bugs and then some worse in June last year, worse with Hot and even worse with the latest patch as it seems.
So yeah – we have new stuff with every patch – we always need to learn how to fight from farther away and how to survive skills that one shot us (5 of them layered on top of each other).

People get frustrated that all their efforts to keep ppt up, upgrade and defend etc, goes all to waste during off hours because an enemy server can ktrain and paper everything and easily tick over 400 with little effort. It turns people away from playing for ppt and focus just on fights, which will create friction in a server, and can sometimes lead to server falls/exodus’

Personally I find ppt meaningless and a waste of time, unless your trying to stay in a tier. I didnt always feel this way, but things like nightcapping killed any desire I had to play for ppt. Now that doesnt mean I blame people who play in other timezones, thats simply ridiculous, they dont deserve any blame for logging in to play, its not their fault that their is little competition from the opposing servers.

The problem lies more with the scoring system. Why is capping/holding a fully upgraded or a paper objective worth the same in points? It makes no sense, more effort should bring about more reward for your server. They did a good thing by permanently implementing PPK, but the effect is not enough enough. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the scoring system.

For example a keep, regardless of upgrades contributes 25 points to the tick.
What if, just as an example it were changed to:
t1-5points
t2-15points
t3-25 points

And capturing a keep would give an immediate point bonus to the server, depending on the keeps upgrade tier.

So just an example, but anyways, if the scoring system were more balanced and actually rewarded effort, it would make things more fair for people across timezones.

X T D.6458:

People get frustrated that all their efforts to keep ppt up, upgrade and defend etc, goes all to waste during off hours because an enemy server can ktrain and paper everything and easily tick over 400 with little effort. It turns people away from playing for ppt and focus just on fights, which will create friction in a server, and can sometimes lead to server falls/exodus’

Personally I find ppt meaningless and a waste of time, unless your trying to stay in a tier. I didnt always feel this way, but things like nightcapping killed any desire I had to play for ppt. Now that doesnt mean I blame people who play in other timezones, thats simply ridiculous, they dont deserve any blame for logging in to play, its not their fault that their is little competition from the opposing servers.

The problem lies more with the scoring system. Why is capping/holding a fully upgraded or a paper objective worth the same in points? It makes no sense, more effort should bring about more reward for your server. They did a good thing by permanently implementing PPK, but the effect is not enough enough. There needs to be a complete overhaul of the scoring system.

For example a keep, regardless of upgrades contributes 25 points to the tick.
What if, just as an example it were changed to:
t1-5points
t2-15points
t3-25 points

And capturing a keep would give an immediate point bonus to the server, depending on the keeps upgrade tier.

So just an example, but anyways, if the scoring system were more balanced and actually rewarded effort, it would make things more fair for people across timezones.

The nightcapping server would simply upgrade your towers/keeps and now they would have an incentive.

“Mummy, Mummy, I am losing the war because I need to sleep and go to school…can you talk with the enemy and ask them to attack my towers and keeps only after I am home and before going to bed?
Pleaaase Mummy, do it, pleaaase….”

The fact that certain servers have people who use programs such as HOD to cap an entire BL from under the map. They do this in 10-15 minutes Anet doesn’t do kitten about it. WvW is dead the game is fairly dead soon no one will have to worry because numbers keep dropping like a rock.

I’ll call it night capping. If you need a PC term for it, “Low population capping”. Anyway…

The reason people complain about this is that the actions of a smaller playerbase mean more to the outcome of a match than the actions of the larger playerbase.

A large amount of players login during “primetime” for the server’s intended time zone. This results in players having opposition in WvW to other players on their timezone’s primetime. There are in my experience generally 3 primetimes: Oceanic (asia), Europe, and North America.

A smaller amount of players log in during off-peak time for the server. They may face opposition depending on the enemy server coverage. It’s when they don’t that they gain value towards the outcome vs the primetime or “matched” players.

With the current capture system everyone’s effort is not reflected in the results. Servers with matching primetime will even out PPT during that time. When “night time” occurs the few players who are on at the time can capture objectives and hold them unconstested. That is the key part of why nightcapping is bad. The effort and time spent by the off-peak players is significantly more valuable to the end score than the primetime players because of how long the objectives can be held uncontested.

This uncontested holding snowballs thanks to upgrades and if servers don’t match coverage perfectly the primetime players will be facing fully upgraded objectives when they come online. Their time matters less because it becomes more difficult to actually contest objectives.

In describing that I propose a PPT solution. Timed PPT.
- When an objective flips it provides PPT for 6 cycles (note that PPT currently occurs on cycles of 15 minutes). After that time it no longer provides PPT.
- When a structure becomes contested (starts a defense event) it will provide PPT for two additional cycles, capped at 2 cycles. This rule has no effect if the structure has two or more cycles of PPT left.
- Upgrades to the structure will continue as normal (this is unchanged from what we have now)

What this does is allow some of the off-peak value to be retained (upgraded structures) but to prevent the score from snowballing. It provides strategic value to active defense and offense as well. With the score hopefully closer to even there is more value placed on primetime offense and defense.