I know that ever since launch Zerker has been the meta that everyone goes to but I am a little frustrated at how bursty this game is in any form of PVP. I know I am not a very good player but I dont understand how the devs can allow any class to hit someone for over half their health.
I was running around with my engineer (which i am still learning to play), who had all zerker gear with Dolyak runes and about 20,500 health pool and found myself getting bursted very easily. By easily I mean with in a couple seconds. I have even used full rabid gear with the extra toughness and still I can not with stand a lot of the burst that happens. Yes evade, Yes block,. Maybe I havent found the right build for how I play my Engi I dont know.
I know I suck but I am just wondering if the burst potential of Warrior, Ranger and Thiefs is a little too much?
Not sure where you hear about zerker being the meta, unless you’re talking about PvE. Zerker on engi with Dolyak runes in WvW seems very odd. I recommend you check out some of the builds at this website: http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Yep it is too much. I believe it’s one of the reasons that PvP/WvW is not very well populated.
This game has too many mechanics that drive out the “not a great PvP’er” type of player. Burst is one of them.
In any pvp situation (including but not limited to ladder or leaderboard or whatever) there has got to be someone on the bottom. Same goes for pvp such as WvW. There has got to be a spectrum of player skill. PvP game modes need people who suck.
Some players like to fight other players and just enjoy it for the fun. They’re playing a game after all. They have no desire to be the top players or climb the leaderboard. They are willing to be at the bottom of the leaderboard or just play casual pvp.
But if there are mechanics that tend to ruin the experience of playing for fun then many of these types of players will not participate. And their non-participation hurts all pvp’ers, even the top players.
If there are too many game mechanics or design factors that drive out the players who just like to have fun fighting other players then you are going to be left with a less than optimal level of player participation in the pvp game modes. And I think we see that in GW2.
Not sure where you hear about zerker being the meta, unless you’re talking about PvE. Zerker on engi with Dolyak runes in WvW seems very odd. I recommend you check out some of the builds at this website: http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
I know that my build isnt amazing but my point is not that I am using an odd rune but that fact that I have 1200+ toughness and 20,500 health pool and still get burst very easily. I am just curious if anyone else thinks that Bursting in this game is too easy and too fast of bursts? thats all I am asking not i you think I am a bad player or what have you. Sure the build has something to do with it but again I am asking a general question.
Yep it is too much. I believe it’s one of the reasons that PvP/WvW is not very well populated.
This game has too many mechanics that drive out the “not a great PvP’er” type of player. Burst is one of them.
In any pvp situation (including but not limited to ladder or leaderboard or whatever) there has got to be someone on the bottom. Same goes for pvp such as WvW. There has got to be a spectrum of player skill. PvP game modes need people who suck.
Some players like to fight other players and just enjoy it for the fun. They’re playing a game after all. They have no desire to be the top players or climb the leaderboard. They are willing to be at the bottom of the leaderboard or just play casual pvp.
But if there are mechanics that tend to ruin the experience of playing for fun then many of these types of players will not participate. And their non-participation hurts all pvp’ers, even the top players.
If there are too many game mechanics or design factors that drive out the players who just like to have fun fighting other players then you are going to be left with a less than optimal level of player participation in the pvp game modes. And I think we see that in GW2.
I don’t think this game requires that much in mechanical skill or reactions to do DECENTLY in pvp. People just tend to get frustrated and quit before they die enough to learn how to deal with it.
Destroyer warriors run zerker
shatter mesmers run zerk
d/d and d/p thieves run zerk
medi-guards run zerk
power rangers run zerk
I don’t know why you would run zerk with dolyak runes but you have tools available to deal with people’s burst damage. The problem with running a burst build is it requires perfect timing of chaining together multiple skills. If you block/dodge/interrupt a ranger’s rapid fire their burst is on CD for 8 seconds. If you dodge or block a warrior’s evis, their burst is on CD for at least 8 seconds and whatever else it takes to rebuild adrenaline. Shatter mesmers often rely on dodges to build clones among other skills, if you destroy their clones before they can shatter you reduced the effectiveness that mesmer has against you. If for some reason you can’t prevent your opponent’s burst damage, you have an invul, a block, easy access to swiftness and this magical thing called a supply crate which will make any glass cannon think twice about what he or she is doing. Take a look into condi double kit builds, it counters many burst damage builds.
^. Apart from a few trollish builds, the game is actually suprisingly balanced. Bursting is simply unloading all the deeps that you can as fast as you can. For the ones that hit you for half health in a second, they are super-glassy. If you find you are dieing to quickly to react, invest more into survivability. Survive their burst > start poking em > supply crate @half-health > stomp em.
However, if they are superglassy, it is most likely either because they are bad at fighting or they are really freakin good. Do not feel bad if you lose to one.
Not sure where you hear about zerker being the meta, unless you’re talking about PvE. Zerker on engi with Dolyak runes in WvW seems very odd. I recommend you check out some of the builds at this website: http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
I know that my build isnt amazing but my point is not that I am using an odd rune but that fact that I have 1200+ toughness and 20,500 health pool and still get burst very easily. I am just curious if anyone else thinks that Bursting in this game is too easy and too fast of bursts? thats all I am asking not i you think I am a bad player or what have you. Sure the build has something to do with it but again I am asking a general question.
My point is that zerker burst does have counters.
It doesn’t matter your toughness or health pool if the rest of your build is odd. I have a friend who likes to play some weird zerker warrior build and goes on to me about his toughness and hp yet he dies very fast because his build lacks any sort of real sustain. In other words, his build lacks counters. You didn’t give many other details about your build…
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Survival in this game does not come from stats, they are just a buffer, a small margin to absorb aoe. If you are so bad that you stand there and take full hit rotations, youre gonna die quick no matter what youre wearing.
So now youre a full zerker who doesnt dodge and no offensive game plan? what did you expect would happen? PvPrs sieze on weakness and hit it hard.
…..
Once you get a rep as ez kill they will keep looking for you.
Ever think full zerks are just as glassy as you? Unless you go all toughness and vita in traits, zerk is all offense with very little defense. People are going to hit you very very hard. OP probably has 900 toughness and didn’t block or dodge a single 5k crit.
Yep it is too much. I believe it’s one of the reasons that PvP/WvW is not very well populated.
This game has too many mechanics that drive out the “not a great PvP’er” type of player. Burst is one of them.
In any pvp situation (including but not limited to ladder or leaderboard or whatever) there has got to be someone on the bottom. Same goes for pvp such as WvW. There has got to be a spectrum of player skill. PvP game modes need people who suck.
Some players like to fight other players and just enjoy it for the fun. They’re playing a game after all. They have no desire to be the top players or climb the leaderboard. They are willing to be at the bottom of the leaderboard or just play casual pvp.
But if there are mechanics that tend to ruin the experience of playing for fun then many of these types of players will not participate. And their non-participation hurts all pvp’ers, even the top players.
If there are too many game mechanics or design factors that drive out the players who just like to have fun fighting other players then you are going to be left with a less than optimal level of player participation in the pvp game modes. And I think we see that in GW2.
You haven’t step foot into TPvP. The meta is Celestials for half of the professions there. Burst is the least of our worries when it comes to mechanics when you have a team that self sustains itself.
Players don’t play because they suck. Same for TPvP. They join, get rekt, and stop all together because of the learning curve. There are Numerous bad players on the bottom spectrum… trust me. There’s been threads about it all over the PvP forums. You see less about it here because everyone’s in a Zerg group, running down camps and beating on walls. Until a player starts roaming by himself, gets rekt by a Zerker and QQ’s about it.
No offense to OP… it’s just ironic.
aka FalseLights Rank: Top 250 since Season 2 #5 best gerdien in wurld
I know that ever since launch Zerker has been the meta that everyone goes to but I am a little frustrated at how bursty this game is in any form of PVP. I know I am not a very good player but I dont understand how the devs can allow any class to hit someone for over half their health.
I was running around with my engineer (which i am still learning to play), who had all zerker gear with Dolyak runes and about 20,500 health pool and found myself getting bursted very easily. By easily I mean with in a couple seconds. I have even used full rabid gear with the extra toughness and still I can not with stand a lot of the burst that happens. Yes evade, Yes block,. Maybe I havent found the right build for how I play my Engi I dont know.
I know I suck but I am just wondering if the burst potential of Warrior, Ranger and Thiefs is a little too much?
Eles actually have even higher burst, they just don’t use zerker outside perhaps zerg staff eles. And zerker engi has awesome burst as well, but requires a certain level of skill to be played effectively.
Zerker warr is still fairly tanky, thieves have stealth and rangers are generally just opportunitsts, they fail in toe to toe combat.
You could try condi engi in wvw as condi builds have much higher survivability, if you like direct dmg engi and want to stick with it, it will take time to learn all the tricks necessary to survive and win fights.
The game allows for both extremes, high burst and tankiness too, I play bursty builds yet I often chase someone over rather long distances, trying to chip away their HP. High armour with blocks/heals etc and they just laugh into my face.
They nerfed direct damage some time ago and now it’s worse cause of it, becuase direct damage is not that high anymore.
Don’t like those phrases, but it’s l2p issue. Try to get better map awarness, learn other classes bursts and pick a fight better for yourself, don’t 1v1 near 4 enemie guards, make a keybind for “look back” very usefull for overview on combat field etc etc etc
And ussually for engi condis are bigger problem then direct damage.
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
They nerfed direct damage some time ago and now it’s worse cause of it, becuase direct damage is not that high anymore.
Don’t like those phrases, but it’s l2p issue. Try to get better map awarness, learn other classes bursts and pick a fight better for yourself, don’t 1v1 near 4 enemie guards, make a keybind for “look back” very usefull for overview on combat field etc etc etc
And ussually for engi condis are bigger problem then direct damage.
Direct damage was never nerfed. Ferocity was changed and took down regular critical hit damage slightly.
However, the changes to sigils have made this game much more biased towards bursting and much more unforgiving. Sure , you’ll critical hit for less but then you can, for example, get both air and fire sigils giving some 3k damage on top of it.
Then you also have stuff like the power creep introduced by regular balancing, guard stacks, ascended gear and so on. At least might and battle got nerfed, thats a start.
It is now much harder for a new player in wvw than it ever was tho!
In a game with so many skills to use, no single player should be able to take out any other player’s entire health under 3 seconds, no matter what they do.
Faster deaths could happen in other games that have simpler combat mechanics, but not in a game with so many skills to use and rarely any decent cover in most environments, and no downsides for attacking while on the move.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
They nerfed direct damage some time ago and now it’s worse cause of it, becuase direct damage is not that high anymore.
Don’t like those phrases, but it’s l2p issue. Try to get better map awarness, learn other classes bursts and pick a fight better for yourself, don’t 1v1 near 4 enemie guards, make a keybind for “look back” very usefull for overview on combat field etc etc etc
And ussually for engi condis are bigger problem then direct damage.
Direct damage was never nerfed. Ferocity was changed and took down regular critical hit damage slightly.
However, the changes to sigils have made this game much more biased towards bursting and much more unforgiving. Sure , you’ll critical hit for less but then you can, for example, get both air and fire sigils giving some 3k damage on top of it.
Then you also have stuff like the power creep introduced by regular balancing, guard stacks, ascended gear and so on. At least might and battle got nerfed, thats a start.
It is now much harder for a new player in wvw than it ever was tho!
same as i said u just repeated. Direct dmg got nerfed with ferocity change of overall 5-10% differnce dmg output, so those burts builds got hit +celectial became much less bursty.
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
They nerfed direct damage some time ago and now it’s worse cause of it, becuase direct damage is not that high anymore.
Don’t like those phrases, but it’s l2p issue. Try to get better map awarness, learn other classes bursts and pick a fight better for yourself, don’t 1v1 near 4 enemie guards, make a keybind for “look back” very usefull for overview on combat field etc etc etc
And ussually for engi condis are bigger problem then direct damage.
Direct damage was never nerfed. Ferocity was changed and took down regular critical hit damage slightly.
However, the changes to sigils have made this game much more biased towards bursting and much more unforgiving. Sure , you’ll critical hit for less but then you can, for example, get both air and fire sigils giving some 3k damage on top of it.
Then you also have stuff like the power creep introduced by regular balancing, guard stacks, ascended gear and so on. At least might and battle got nerfed, thats a start.
It is now much harder for a new player in wvw than it ever was tho!
same as i said u just repeated. Direct dmg got nerfed with ferocity change of overall 5-10% differnce dmg output, so those burts builds got hit +celectial became much less bursty.
No. Despite critical hit damage being changed you can actually crit for much more now and deal alot more damage mainly due to the new sigil rules (no shared cooldown, 2 sigils on two-handed weapons). Adding 3k damage from fire-air sigils to a 1k damage crit autoattack is alot more of a burst than the 100 damage you’d lose from a 10% damage nerf in ferocity and having to worry about shared sigil cooldowns.
And this is only one easy to explain scenario, there’s plenty more instances of power creep/damage increase overall and general changes that make it alot harder for a new wvw player.
Max dps builds definetly got it profit from sigils that went over the ferocity nerf and that’s the only case. A bit more sustained builds got nerfed on it, cause u’re not using air+fire sigil if u’re not glass cannon ussually.
New players will find alot of those in wvw while it’s not the funiest to play against, because it’s glass thief/ranger, that are boring roaming cancer of wvw, tbh though i haven’t found that much of them during this weekend vs AR and kodash (eu).
Recent might change though nerfed direct damage more.
“you can actually crit for much more now "
if taking in account of “crit” the sigils proc, then yes sure, but sigil procs is not crit damage, taking this sentence straight means opposite of what really happened.
You cannot crit much more at all with ferocity change (and slightly with recent might change that affected it aswell), that’s just out of any calculation.
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
Only class I fully zerker on is a Raid staff ele, raid power necro or a pug longbow ranger lol
what is the problem with full zerker in wvw? we run 80+% builds that are exclusive zerker in our group. warrior, mesmer, guardian, ranger, thief, ele. dont see why this shouldnt be viable.
@Hvaran
because it’s glass thief/ranger, that are boring roaming cancer of wvw, tbh though i haven’t found that much of them during this weekend vs AR and kodash (eu).
