As I stated in the other thread, I encourage people to actually transfer to the ‘hated’ server to see what the community is like before bashing it. Server transfers are free. Just stay for the 24 hours, come see what the server is all about. I bet you’ll be happily surprised with what you see and hear.
Now let’s all start a campfire and sing together! C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E S-O-N-G SONG! SING IT!
Was in the middle of a short reply to you zTales on the other thread when it got locked. I wrote:
I’d actually be inclined to take you up on that offer to gain a more fair, objective perspective. But I fear I wouldn’t be able to return home within 24 hours due to our full server population.
Time for a little outside perspective. Yes I’m from Darkhaven but I just transferred there a few days ago because I work 3rd shift and the “night capping” is actually my peak time and I kinda like playing with people on WvW instead of empty maps.
Anywho, just read through the entire previous post after playing all night mostly in Maguuma Borderlands with a little time in EB as well when the queue let me. And I gotta say, if something is such a horrible exploit, then ANet will get around to fixing it. Until then, I totally understand why higher tiered servers would use whatever they can even if it is taking advantage of culling. Honestly, I didn’t really see it much last night although Maguuma did have a decent force all night long, I don’t believe we ever actually held their entire map for more than a few minutes.
So from someone recently transferred from lowly Devona’s Rest into the slightly bigger time, “All’s fair in love and war” culling, night capping, any other excuse you want to come up with, the better servers should learn how to combat against these “exploits” instead of whining and complaining about them.
Oh, and outta curiosity, does DH have any WvW orientation classes? that sounds like another very good idea we could learn from Guuma.
The many different ways I can spell Regnilond xD
Guardians of the Creed [HATE]
Yak’s Bend
I’ve never seen one Drede, I’ve been on Darkhaven for a long time too. Perhaps now that it was mentioned, one of our commanders or something will organize it. After all, since everyone seems to have written off Maguuma and NSP, perhaps this match should be used to learn and practice for the ones ahead.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
I hope this thread doesn’t turn into another flame war. It’s so sad that it got so bad that the GM had to lock it. >.<
Why can’t we call just have fun and enjoy the game? Why can’t we be like you know that fight in that bl was so awesome. We pushed and you pushed back and it was so much fun. Good job to both sides on a good fight.
Is this what wvw has come to? Accusing each other of hacking and exploiting? Putting down the other server’s accomplishments?
Was in the middle of a short reply to you zTales on the other thread when it got locked. I wrote:
I’d actually be inclined to take you up on that offer to gain a more fair, objective perspective. But I fear I wouldn’t be able to return home within 24 hours due to our full server population.
Kumbaya My Lord…Kumbaya!
It changes often though, does it not? It may take a little longer than 24 hours, but I doubt you would be stuck here. But I don’t know, it sounds like bandwagonning has been a bigger issue in these tiers, so maybe it would take a long time.
Oh and since I happened to get into the [VIP] guild last night, I’m not sure if this was ever actually mentioned, but right on the Message of the Day for the guild it says they moved to Darkhaven and everyone has til the end of the month to move or get kicked from the guild. So no they aren’t spying, they just haven’t all moved yet due to the server probably being full. Ok, time to work on updating the sig with some PvE leveling. Hope this topic is still civil when I get back to reading it.
The many different ways I can spell Regnilond xD
Guardians of the Creed [HATE]
Yak’s Bend
Was in the middle of a short reply to you zTales on the other thread when it got locked. I wrote:
I’d actually be inclined to take you up on that offer to gain a more fair, objective perspective. But I fear I wouldn’t be able to return home within 24 hours due to our full server population.
Kumbaya My Lord…Kumbaya!
It changes often though, does it not? It may take a little longer than 24 hours, but I doubt you would be stuck here. But I don’t know, it sounds like bandwagonning has been a bigger issue in these tiers, so maybe it would take a long time.
It’s really hard to transfer to DH. It’s a full server. I’ve had friends trying to get to the server for a couple of days.
NSP doesn’t look to have the night pop to compete with DH now so I’m not sure that will happen.
As of lately, it feels as if we don’t really have the numbers for anything. Going into 3 different borderlands to find outmanned in all three is demoralizing, but I still tried to lead a nice group of out-manned players in DH BL today. Managed to grab Redbriar and almost took AB before getting a Maguuma zerg on our kitten
As of lately, it feels as if we don’t really have the numbers for anything. Going into 3 different borderlands to find outmanned in all three is demoralizing, but I still tried to lead a nice group of out-manned players in DH BL today.
That’s how SoH has been playing, dodge-the-zerg and claim as much as you can. It seems like the baseline NSP population has disappeared and that sometimes we’re the only show in town. And our 10/15/20 player groups can’t hold against the enemy’s undistracted horde.
Tyrlis – South of Heaven [SoH] WvW Commander – CD
Proud Member of the First Crystalian Council
NSP has lost a great amount of WvW players, SOH ARMA AA and maybe two or three WvW oriented guilds are all thats left that really plays and even then most only play during peak. Even when we do have players most of them aren’t real thinkers, or just don’t want to wait and defend stuff. We really lack orginization on NSP….
NSP has lost a great amount of WvW players, SOH ARMA AA and maybe two or three WvW oriented guilds are all thats left that really plays and even then most only play during peak. Even when we do have players most of them aren’t real thinkers, or just don’t want to wait and defend stuff. We really lack orginization on NSP….
Two suggestions:
1. Build a loyal community. Probably a lot harder for NSP than it was for Maguuma now, I don’t know. Our problem isn’t that our connected community gets demoralized, it’s the people who aren’t really involved in it that get demoralized. All you need is enough organized guilds to fill one borderlands and a good way to communicate.
2. Have fun not only in score victory but in the little things. As mentioned before, Maguuma pretty much never wins, but we still have a heck of a good time playing every week.
Nightcapping is the main reason why DH is winning, and will result in a similar disparity in score compared to the servers that mainly won with nightcapping that have come before DH.
Having said that, DH is a bit disappointing in the individual skill department for the most part. Being able to take out groups of 10+ with 3 people, although quite fun, is a bit sad. I think they’re going to have a very rough time when they reach the bracket where nightcapping can’t carry them to victory, as previous servers I’ve played against with high night pop such as SoS and FA are much better than DH.
So my advice to DH is: enjoy your population while it lasts. Once you hit that wall, I think that will be the end of DH for the most part.
V deathTouch V – Warrior
STD [Scarlet Gave Me Harpies]
Maguuma
Eh, Darkhaven does have several organized guilds that do well together. I don’t know about 1v1 combat, nor do I care about it, since that’s not what matters here. They will learn or they will lose, that’s all there is to it. Anecdotal evidence really serves nobody but the witness. Let’s not aim for record number of threads closed for a WvW match.
2. Have fun not only in score victory but in the little things. As mentioned before, Maguuma pretty much never wins, but we still have a heck of a good time playing every week.
Yeah, Mag’s morale has been pretty much untouchable since we did Ramelot/Alamo/Pangloss a few weeks ago. The general community loves stuff like this. It gives a reason to fight other then just the scoreboard.
That’s weird….I’m long time in DH. 1 of the WvW veterans….. and i usually go in a group of 3-5 people, and we take out 8-15 ppl at a time, with very few effort, on both Maguuma and NSP.
Nightcapping is the main reason why DH is winning, and will result in a similar disparity in score compared to the servers that mainly won with nightcapping that have come before DH.
Having said that, DH is a bit disappointing in the individual skill department for the most part. Being able to take out groups of 10+ with 3 people, although quite fun, is a bit sad. I think they’re going to have a very rough time when they reach the bracket where nightcapping can’t carry them to victory, as previous servers I’ve played against with high night pop such as SoS and FA are much better than DH.
So my advice to DH is: enjoy your population while it lasts. Once you hit that wall, I think that will be the end of DH for the most part.
It all depends on whether you encounter their pugs or their organized groups. Their pugs you can wipe 3:1. Their organized groups are more of a challenge.
Northern Shiverpeaks was difficult to judge because there were very few times I faced them last week that they were not hitting us an overwhelming zerg that would could take out 3:1. I don’t think I ever really got to face many of their organized groups.
It’s really all a matter of which folks you encounter. Same is true on Ehmry Bay. Certain guilds and running groups will slaughter much higher numbers, but the horde of PVEr’s and transfers online right now are wheat to the scythe for any skilled opponents.
Rashanala – 80 Elementalist
Ehmry Bay – Legion of the Iron Hawk [Hawk]
The problem here on NSP is that the community is pretty good at heart. what I mean by that is that we don’t exploit broken game mechanics or glitch. We’ve weeded those bad apples out.
I’ve been getting burnt out leading WvW for 8 hours every day. So I’ve been on a personal break for the past week. But I can tell you that I know plenty of people in my guild and on our server that are tired of seeing the 30-50 man balls to exploit the AoE hitting only 5 people mechanic and the rendering issues, as well as the abuse of garrison seagate bypass and mesmers glitching through terain on purpose. It’s not necessarily just these Servers, but it’s been happening for about 3 weeks now, and its getting more and more demoralizing to see servers winning by exploiting broken game mechanics that aren’t functioning the right way.
Personally I’ve been obsessed with WvW since March and have learned every little aspect I could. And even I’m getting very frustrated with the ever growing mountain of fails in WvW. It used to be fun, but it’s just not fun seeing zerging, flyhacks and exploits over and over again. ANET is failing at maintaining their game and preventing abuse.
MasterofKhaos
WvW Leader and Co-leader of [TBH]
Co-Founder of Northern Shiverpeaks Council [NSC]
My drive to play wvw hit an all-time low today. It’s just not fun getting on when you know there’s nobody on to help defend the borderlands. I really do hope NSP can recover from this downward spiral we seem to be in.
eh, I’m not so sure the flame war will restart just yet. I see valid points made here, and while some of them have been discussed before, everyone seems rather mature about it. I do agree that there is probably a very large difference between PUGs in a zerg and the organized guilds, but that is why we must always be trying to teach our PUGs cuz everyone was a noob at some point.
The many different ways I can spell Regnilond xD
Guardians of the Creed [HATE]
Yak’s Bend
I lost count of how many times we wiped the dh zerg off of their BL before most of us left to protect Mag and they took Garrison.
Y’all gonna need to learn how to press buttons other than autoattack it looks like.
Best way to deal with a comment like this is report and move on. If it’s only 1-2 isolated members mods will take actions other than lock the thread. It takes mass involvement and lack of reporting to get a thread locked.
Players are capable of self policing and staying respectful. Mods are just here to help ensure the stubborn ones cannot spam anyways.
Rashanala – 80 Elementalist
Ehmry Bay – Legion of the Iron Hawk [Hawk]
Hey guys, I m ok with nightcapping as long as my server is the one doing the night capping. If the other server is the one doing the night capping I m not ok with it.
This would be a different match if nightcapping hadn’t happened Friday night.
So what you’re saying is that we should just leave everything untouched once the Maguuma “prime time” crowd logs off for the night? We’re only supposed to accommodate your play time, or what?
What are we supposed to do? I’m not trying to flame or anything I’m just really confused at these type of comments. And the complaints of night capping and using that term as an insult is really getting tiresome.
This would be a different match if nightcapping hadn’t happened Friday night.
So what you’re saying is that we should just leave everything untouched once the Maguuma “prime time” crowd logs off for the night? We’re only supposed to accommodate your play time, or what?
What are we supposed to do? I’m not trying to flame or anything I’m just really confused at these type of comments.
The complaints of night capping and using that term as an insult is really getting tiresome.
Its more of anet needing to implement population caps on servers based on the population of the other servers, it has nothing to do with time of day. You’ll notice skill doesn’t not determine a winner in WvW unless populations are balanced. You can look at the ranks and who is winning vs losing to see that.
It’s more that it’s a frustrating experience to fight against. If a server is able to 100% everything for a few hours at night, the game is basically over unless their daytime presence is terrible. I don’t think anyone is blaming anyone for playing at night.
This would be a different match if nightcapping hadn’t happened Friday night.
So what you’re saying is that we should just leave everything untouched once the Maguuma “prime time” crowd logs off for the night? We’re only supposed to accommodate your play time, or what?
What are we supposed to do? I’m not trying to flame or anything I’m just really confused at these type of comments.
The complaints of night capping and using that term as an insult is really getting tiresome.
Its more of anet needing to implement population caps on servers based on the population of the other servers, it has nothing to do with time of day. You’ll notice skill doesn’t not determine a winner in WvW unless populations are balanced. You can look at the ranks and who is winning vs losing to see that.
No offense but that’s a terrible idea. Especially considering how rampant the bot populations are in certain maps.
And then there is the fact that if you’re on a server that already has queues (like Darkhaven) then that would only make them worse. If I’m understanding you’re suggestion correctly.
It’s more that it’s a frustrating experience to fight against. If a server is able to 100% everything for a few hours at night, the game is basically over unless their daytime presence is terrible. I don’t think anyone is blaming anyone for playing at night.
I’m honestly not trying to flame when I say this, but Maguuma has been playing the night capping card pretty much since the reset on Friday, in the originally thread. Even before it actually happened.
And even then, we didn’t just waltz over the map. Every fort/keep/tower we took had a lot of defenders in it.
Fellyn you don’t tell us why its a bad idea other than
a). bots
b). queue times
How is limiting the amount of people in WvW (which is already done at map caps) and bots related?
For queue times, is it more fair for servers to win because they have the larger population or more fair if skill and coordination determines winners. Answer this question pretending you are neutral and your server would not being negatively affected by your answer.
You would only face additional queue times if your server out numbers the server you play. Any consistent additional queue time would be temporary because
1. Top tier servers are already max population and so have somewhat even numbers between them (out numbering opponents=highest score, not skill and coordination= highest score) so they would hardlly ever face extra time
2. People will be more likely to x-fer if they face longer queue times
3. Free x-fers would be fixed so high pop → low pop
I’m honestly not trying to flame when I say this, but Maguuma has been playing the night capping card pretty much since the reset on Friday, in the originally thread. Even before it actually happened.
And even then, we didn’t just waltz over the map. Every fort/keep/tower we took had a lot of defenders in it.
We play that card quite often… I don’t think we should care much, myself, but losing just because of timezone differences is kind of lame. I hope Arena.Net comes up with a good solution that still lets everyone play whenever they want while still closing the score gap for times when only one server is playing. Honestly, Darkhaven has a ton of people, and it’s not just at night. It’s 6pm Pacific and you guys are already fielding a ton of numbers that we can’t easily match. That is a significant factor in success.
By the way, my favorite tactic of the day was Darkhaven marching a siege golem to a gate with an oil up on it. Someone’s wallet must be depressed right now!
Fellyn you don’t tell us why its a bad idea other than
a). bots
b). queue times
How is limiting the amount of people in WvW (which is already done at map caps) and bots related?
For queue times, is it more fair for servers to win because they have the larger population or more fair if skill and coordination determines winners. Answer this question pretending you are neutral and your server would not being negatively affected by your answer.
You would only face additional queue times if your server out numbers the server you play. Any consistent additional queue time would be temporary because
1. Top tier servers are already max population and so have somewhat even numbers between them (out numbering opponents=highest score, not skill and coordination= highest score) so they would hardlly ever face extra time
2. People will be more likely to x-fer if they face longer queue times
3. Free x-fers would be fixed so high pop -> low pop
Here’s the thing of it. Actual population vs. WvWvW population. Just because a server is high population does not mean they have a large wv3 population. And if I’m reading it correctly you want it to be capped based on total server population, not just presence in wv3.
Case in point would be NSP. They claim they lost a large portion of their player base just this last week, and I’m sure they did. But when they say that they actually mean their wv3 population. Not the overall server population, which probably didn’t even notice that a few guilds left. When only 100 (not sure if that’s the exact cap for wv3 maps) people per server are allowed in a map at once you’re gonna feel the absence of 20 active players daily. But as far as the population for a server goes 20 people is nothing.
Now, I’m all for closing down transfers to high pop high tier servers. It would make sense that they only allow people to transfer to lower pop/tier servers.
Yes, it would be based on WvW population numbers and not overall server numbers. You still didn’t answer the question about what is the more fair way to win, numbers or skill and coordination.
Let’s say we play a game of risk between 2 people. Both players are similar in skill. In 75% of the games played, someone starts out with 500 men while the other person starts out with 300 men, in only 25% of the games do they start out with roughly equal men. How much fun is it going into that match knowing you will win or lose based on if you are the player with the higher population? There is a reason you start with equal numbers in risk, its the same reason teams are composed of the same number of people in league of legends (the most played game right now).
You’re never going to be able to equalize the numbers though. In a system that has free transfers or even paid transfers the population of a server is fluid at best, it’s never going to be constant. You then also have to account for people that just outright stop playing, too. Which as more time passes will become a problem all in it’s own.
And then you have people who only go into the battlegrounds to do jumping puzzles, taking spots from people who do actually want participate.
Or what if you get put up against a server that just decides it doesn’t want to compete after the slightest score deficit? You’re going to punish the other two sides that do want to compete.
Lots of little reasons why limiting population based on wv3 presence of the other servers is a bad idea.
You’re never going to be able to equalize the numbers though. In a system that has free transfers or even paid transfers the population of a server is fluid at best, it’s never going to be constant. You then also have to account for people that just outright stop playing, too. Which as more time passes will become a problem all in it’s own.
So what you are telling me is that
1. Queue times would encourage people to x-fer
2. Anet would allow free x-fers from the queue time servers to the servers that are causing queue times
3. It doesn’t have to be a perfect 1:1 ratio, the ratios where servers have the out manned buff at 6pm on a Sunday need to be fixed
i dont understand the argument that grouping up to avoid aoe is somehow playing dirty or abusing the system. the aoe’s that grouping up counter are ones that only hit 5 players.
regardless if how many people are grouped up, only 5 will be hit. infact, grouping up maximizes the damage of that aoe, since you’re guaranteed to get max number of hits.
Wads its that it chooses 5 random players, think of it as your aoe hits players 1-5 the first hit and players 6-10 on the second hit and players 11-15 on hit 3 before returning to players 1-5 for hit four.
Fellyn you still didn’t answer what is the more fair way to win WvW.
Yes, Pangie, I am looking forward to the Halloween event. Too bad I have to work tonight, but I’ll definitely be checking it out in the morning. I would comment on other things said here, but they all have their own posts for a reason…
The many different ways I can spell Regnilond xD
Guardians of the Creed [HATE]
Yak’s Bend
