Guild Wars 2

Dear Mike,

I think we may have a misunderstanding here. Players are not down voting and giving you criticism over the current plan of action to make you feel bad. Players want you to take that criticism and apply it to the way you do things and actually make the needed adjustments so they can see the game mode as playable again and not sit there and rant about it.

The best WvW commanders learn from criticism, not just ignore it or complain they received it. They WANT people to tell them what they are doing wrong so they can make the proper adjustments and actually fix the problems to make them better. Players are giving you that criticism for you to do the same. WE want you to make the game better, the problem is Anet’s idea of “better” and what the many thousands of players have expressed in GW2 Official WvW forums for years do not seem to be on the same page.

If players are too busy with nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PvP action the entire time they are in WvW they would not be on your forums asking you to make it that way.
It is insulting to players to have you respond on Reddit rather than your own forums, because these are actually your forums, the format is what you make of it. If your forums are too difficult for you to use, you should use them until you change them, not give players an excuse that " this format works better over here on this site that is not ours" and expect players to use an offsite to communicate with you. If it is good enough for your players to use than it should be good enough for you. If it isn’t, you solve it, but you still use it until then ( just as your players do).

People are not downvoting to be mean. People are down voting because you are not giving them the answers they want to hear, you are not even making their concerns your first priority. It appears to the players that instead of listening to what they are telling you and making adjustments accordingly, you are instead still trying to push what they have been screaming they do not want on them instead. Most WvW players do not like EoTM. ( some do, but most do not) Most WvW players do not like the HoT updates to WvW some to the extent they consider the game unplayable and want them reversed immediately while working on the issues of correcting them. Trying to update Alpine to HoT is the OPPOSITE of what players want to hear right now. The reason players want Alpine back is they dont want the HoT mess on it, so if you ruin Alpine with the HoT mess, you are still not giving players what they asked for. Players asked you to roll back WvW pre-HoT , then fix the maps and other problems, not the other way around.

Thousands of players have made suggestions on the GW2 Official WvW forums to the problems that are keeping them from playing but they seem to fall on deaf ears. It isn’t like there are no solutions to these problems that will make most players happy. It isn’t that difficult to actually think about how these changes affect WvW players before implementing them if you actually talk to players about the options first.

Think about the HoT guild upgrades , for example, WvW guild already earned everything that was taken from them, then were expected to grind in PvE to get what they already worked for back after dropping a ton of Ca$h on the expansion and extras? They felt robbed because they WERE robbed. Players dont spend $$ on expansions to have everything they enjoyed from the game before taken from them. Of course they will be upset, it should be expected. Instead of taking everything from them, they should have just added to what they had, AND make it so the new upgrades were obtainable just by playing WvW and having fun while you do it. People do not play games to work, they play them to relax and have fun and grinding PvE isn’t what many WvW players find fun at all. There are numerous ways to solve the issues making all parties involved happy, but you have to start by actually listening to what they have to say.

Most Players here started out nice ( Somewhat nice?).. then thousands of players pleas ignored later .. they get a bit testy.. It is upsetting to many players here to watch their friends, guilds, even their rivals all leave the game because of the decisions you guys are making so of course by this point in the game when it is getting so bad you don’t even want to log in any more we are a bit frustrated and may come off as harshly critical. The thing is though, as our best commander we have Mike, you have to take that criticism and downvoting (I do not even use Reddit btw) and use it to make changes to make the people cheer rather than ignore it and keep going in the wrong direction making everyone leave instead.

The truth is that people LOVE change, if that change is good. If they are not loving that change, it is because it isn’t what should have been done. I hear people saying " people hate change" that is far from true. People LOVE it, when it is something that makes them happy. People are happy when they are having fun. If they were busy having fun, they wouldn’t be here ranting about what you guys did. If you do not listen to what the players are saying and make changes accordingly, of course they are not going to be happy with what you chose to do, and you shouldn’t expect them to be. If you really are here to help, you would be addressing what they are actually saying to you.

Rolling back WvW pre HoT immediately while you work on what is making players consider it unplayable would be the first thing you could do to help. Players are not going to just come play an unplayable game mode just because you add HoT participation rewards to it. That will just upset them further. At this point, you should understand many do not even want to hear about " HoT" anything anymore they are so upset about it due to paying for an expansion they considered killed their enjoyment of the game.

I do hope you understand that players are not " going off" just to make you feel bad, they are just desperate to try and save the game they enjoy, love and want more than anything for it to be fun again and be able to play with their friends, family and guilds.

we fight because we want guildwars to be our go to game for pvp.

we know you can do it, otherwise why bother fighting ?

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

Gunner Morton.8340:

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

If you read what I said, You doesn’t matter. They want to address “Population and Rewards”. It’s not hard to figure it out.

Agree with evrything he said, but the OP is clearly forgetting that all coins have two sides. I don’t know the numbers but some people enjoy this map while other don’t, reverting to pre HOT map would be unfair for the latter. A middle ground is needed indeed. Thus far, I am enjoying this map though, the shrine boost your speed reducing the traveling distance I can make a round trip ( up and down) in 4 min max.

Agree with Fivedawgs, at least now on my server we are some players in BL that have learned how to get around from one place to another and do our thing. We fight walls, doors, dolly’s and enemy zergs when they show up which happens more and more lately. EB is not the only place fights is going on.

It is not a big difference from the old Alpine maps they way our server fights, so I guess some people have other problems then just how much PvE there is in the new borderlands. Not everything is perfect, but it isn’t as kittenome WvW player make it sound.

The only thing that really nags me is how bad our loot are compared to do some events in HoT maps like Verdant Brink or Auric Basin. It should be possible to do most WvW and still get enough mats and gold for gradually building up a small army of toons to pick from when there is a need for a special toon in guild or BL.

*Why does this form make kitten out of b-a-d?

Gunner Morton.8340:

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

The empty maps do.

Last night I went in and out of WVW between 11pm and 2am PST and there was literally maybe 5 people in EB, and another 5 on the BLs hopping a bit. Usually I come on earlier, but went to hang out with some people it being a Saturday night.

And this is a reset night on tier 3 …… Not the low tiers.

I’d rather have PVErs to kill, many of which will become long term PVXers and some of whom will switch to be WVW players, then no players at all like this.

You can do all the other stuff you want, switch maps, balance classes, adjust siege, yadda yadda, but playing entire WVW with just 5-10 people across all those maps just plainly sucks and causes rest of us to leave, and thats the bottom line of it.

O and before you even mention transfers, you better show me where exactly and precisely does it state in the game requirements that in order to enjoy this games advertised massive PVP game mode does it state that you have to pay additional $$ for a transfer to T1, then quite possibly another transfer back down if players return to WVW.

Tongku.5326:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

The empty maps do.

Last night I went in and out of WVW between 11pm and 2am PST and there was literally maybe 5 people in EB, and another 5 on the BLs hopping a bit. Usually I come on earlier, but went to hang out with some people it being a Saturday night.

And this is a reset night on tier 3 …… Not the low tiers.

I’d rather have PVErs to kill, many of which will become long term PVXers and some of whom will switch to be WVW players, then no players at all like this.

You can do all the other stuff you want, switch maps, balance classes, adjust siege, yadda yadda, but playing entire WVW with just 5-10 people across all those maps just plainly sucks and causes rest of us to leave, and thats the bottom line of it.

O and before you even mention transfers, you better show me where exactly and precisely does it state in the game requirements that in order to enjoy this games advertised massive PVP game mode does it state that you have to pay additional $$ for a transfer to T1, then quite possibly another transfer back down if players return to WVW.

Funny, I’m in T4 and there where more people on than that on my server in the time frame you claimed this happened.
O and before you mention rewards again those PvErs that you want to farm are going to do nothing but Ktrain because it is the path of least resistance for loot.

pvers don’t need to be dragged in to pvp – that’s part of the problem, people being forced / incentivized to play game modes they don’t want to play

The idea is to bring our “REAL PVP” community back to us, we have our people, we just need wvw to accommodate their preferred way of gaming.

Bringing pvers into the fold is just putting salt on the wound. They don’t want to pvp, respect that. PvPrs dont want to pve, respect that too.

GW gamers aren’t chess pieces to be moved around by anet….that’s not how things work!! Chess pieces don’t walk off the board the way our pvp community did. ^.^

hm i understand that playerbase got alot heart into wvw and i find it good that community keeps fighting for it (i for myself played wvw the most of all game modes). but i dont know if a president of a company really needs explaination why players give feedback or what feedback shall be for or what feedback even is at all.

he got the experience in business and life to know exactly whats going on. even if they always play the professional unprofessionality card like “no one told us, we havent been aware” companies are after their own goals.

e.g. if they set themself the goal to “make more money this year” they dont care for bugs or updates or improvements or content then at least for a year. if they can reach the goal of making more money by dropping cheap crap skins into the gemstore or by selling an “expansion” by doing overhype and overpricing their goal and business year is successful with that. even if noone plays wvw then at that time. they will see the goal reached and call it a successful year.

i would rather ask why although the playerbase gave ideas and feedback over the years still everything was done different when the updates where done?

there was no reason to design the borderlands in the way they did, specially because wvw playerbase always gave feedback to rather have less pve content and not more pve content.

since the start of wvw it has been known that its a fight scenario. 3 servers fighting for a week for the win. capture and defend and fight.

for what reason could they have designed it more complex and more time consuming to capture and travel?

shortcut of reward supply.

the same that happened to dungeon rewards they did with wvw rewards just they did not cut the actual rewards but the way to go there. the big kitten we are into now is that they not only have driven off the “wvw casuals which choose to go on a wvw map to loot some” but also the ones which never really cared for loot but for the system cause it was the wvw system.

changes in systems always occur cause the system holder tries to cut off supply for some and steer it elsewhere.

i for myself dont care for loot when i wvw around. i care for fights , for captures for the sake of winning with all the people on the server.

if they think that wvw players had it too easy with loot then they should make themself a head how to cut the reward and give the wvw players another possibility to get their hands on items they need (armors, weapons, runes, sigils, trinkets) but for all sake not design a map like they did with borderlands.

i wanted to design a new build for my mesmer to play wvw. but the runes i wanted to get are runes which can be bought by a vendor on one of the HoT maps. 900 aurilium i need to farm in pve until i can go back to wvw finally… runes are acc bound…

i completely agree with the guild hall thing. a true wvw guild cant be dropped into the pve maps. “play what you dont want to play to compete in your favourite content after” thats pure insane to design a system like that.

i can only underline what O’brien posted on reddit himslef again:

“we’ve always said that Guild Wars should be about having fun rather than preparing to have fun, "

such a big statement and such design??? words and action of arenanet yet again dont fit.

Rewards are not the problem. The fact that WvW survived for so long before HoT tells us this. PvP players want to PvP, and will do so despite low rewards. But when the quality of PvP declines, so does the population. And the quality right now is abysmal: from the power creep to the awful new map mechanics to the awful new map.

Ricky.4706:

pvers don’t need to be dragged in to pvp – that’s part of the problem, people being forced / incentivized to play game modes they don’t want to play

The idea is to bring our “REAL PVP” community back to us, we have our people, we just need wvw to accommodate their preferred way of gaming.

Bringing pvers into the fold is just putting salt on the wound. They don’t want to pvp, respect that. PvPrs dont want to pve, respect that too.

GW gamers aren’t chess pieces to be moved around by anet….that’s not how things work!! Chess pieces don’t walk off the board the way our pvp community did. ^.^

Case in point: What has Anet done for the GvG scene that sprung up from WvW? NADA!!! They’re not coming back. Fight Guilds? NADA (no more stab for you). Not coming back. Pirate Ship Meta……….
They’re going to work with what numbers they have. Otherwise it’s a total rework of the entire game mode to appease a few specialty groups.

then give up wanting esports.

you can’t insist the esports community play by pve rules – make an official announcement that you are dropping pvp as a goal….it’s just an area of the game where attacking other players is enabled. neanderthal gaming for all.

kick the can is not an olympic sport!

Gunner Morton.8340:

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

can you imagine what it would be like for 30-40 regular pve’ers / tequatl specialists, wurm slayers, or shatterer fans to come into wvw for some rewards or guild missions and run into a organized gank squad or havoc group of 5-10. I would love to watch that

Anywho, yup, everything the OP said. I didn’t read it all but the first 3 or 4 paragraphs told me it was probably all good. So, turn on the old BL maps and we will help you with the rest, ANET. Let’s start Monday off right by addressing this in these forums.

they quit, once Trump, err Tequatl puts up that wall, you have at least 10 people quit because things didn’t go according to plan.

pvprs don’t quit, that last 3 guys fighting tequatl at the 1 minute count without even a slightest chance to win, are pvp material.

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into tGemsame to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Now you’re seeing the path. All you need in this current version of WvW is seige, everything else is free, excluding the -&%@$- for guild buffs.
That’s why I’m still down in this crap hole. Not going to spend one dime. The more you continue to buy Gems, the longer things remain unchanged.

Loosmaster.8263:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into tGemsame to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Now you’re seeing the path. All you need in this current version of WvW is seige, everything else is free, excluding the -&%@$- for guild buffs.
That’s why I’m still down in this crap hole. Not going to spend one dime. The more you continue to buy Gems, the longer things remain unchanged.

I am not buying gems until they make the game mode playable again, as is everyone else who is waiting to see the changes before spending another dime. Every Player I know that was spending hundreds in real cash every month has stopped until they see changes as well.

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

No, they couldn’t pay me enough to work for them. When I hear from my friends that do it isn’t the cakewalk people tend to think it is.

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

No, they couldn’t pay me enough to work for them. When I hear from my friends that do it isn’t the cakewalk people tend to think it is.

Exactly, you don’t work there so you have no clue what players spend on this game. You basically just posted a bunch of nonsense to try and make them work faster on what they are working on..

Give it a break.. Something is coming. You can either wait and see what it is or continue to embarrass yourself by constantly complaining because we are not getting it today..

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

No, they couldn’t pay me enough to work for them. When I hear from my friends that do it isn’t the cakewalk people tend to think it is.

Exactly, you don’t work there so you have no clue what players spend on this game. You basically just posted a bunch of nonsense to try and make them work faster on what they are working on..

Give it a break.. Something is coming. You can either wait and see what it is or continue to embarrass yourself by constantly complaining because we are not getting it today..

You don’t work there, and are telling me what I should do? I am hearing from people who do and you tell me I don’t know what is going on? LMAO.

Waiting is the one thing players should not do right now because if Anet goes forward with their plans " the something" will be what makes the rest of those " waiting" leave. You may be fine with an EoTM Hot WvW replacement, but the ones leaving are not..
The numbers speak for themselves, however the players need to tell them WHY this is happening.

If you are happy with the EoTM HoT nonsense great, you tell them that, just don’t complain because others are not and are letting them know. It is not your " job" to tell me or anyone else what they should and should not tell Anet.

1 The new borderands have too many paths that make the borderlands feel even emptier

2 Pop up walls are annoying and brings nothing positive

3 You have to run much longer to catch up with your guild after you die

4 Fighting in and around keeps are just horribly boring and annoying due to chokes that makes skilled sideplay hard, and pew pewing from heights easy

5 the middle event has been causing insane lags since the very beginning and clearly shows how little efford the “team” is putting in to fix what should have been a hotfix within a month after launch (generous)

6. gameplay should always go before aesthetics and is one of the reasons the alphine maps was such a success. (keep it simple stupid). I’d suggest removing one layer from the map (everything underground)

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

No, they couldn’t pay me enough to work for them. When I hear from my friends that do it isn’t the cakewalk people tend to think it is.

Exactly, you don’t work there so you have no clue what players spend on this game. You basically just posted a bunch of nonsense to try and make them work faster on what they are working on..

Give it a break.. Something is coming. You can either wait and see what it is or continue to embarrass yourself by constantly complaining because we are not getting it today..

You don’t work there, and are telling me what I should do? I am hearing from people who do and you tell me I don’t know what is going on? LMAO.

Waiting is the one thing players should not do right now because if Anet goes forward with their plans " the something" will be what makes the rest of those " waiting" leave. You may be fine with an EoTM Hot WvW replacement, but the ones leaving are not..
The numbers speak for themselves, however the players need to tell them WHY this is happening.

If you are happy with the EoTM HoT nonsense great, you tell them that, just don’t complain because others are not and are letting them know. It is not your " job" to tell me or anyone else what they should and should not tell Anet.

Waiting is something players should not do? Yea ok.. keep nagging like an annoying bf/gf that won’t give you space when you need it. Even when you constantly complain it isn’t coming till it is ready. I also wish they would tell us more info but you know what? They aren’t and constantly complaining right now when we know something is coming is doing nothing but making the wvw community look sad. We thought we had to wait till end of year just for the beta but now that has changed.

I already gave my feedback about what I didn’t like about the new maps which probably got over looked due to the constant complaints.. Now its up to them to listen. If they don’t oh well I’ll adapt like I have with every change we have gotten so far. I don’t need to say the same thing in multiple threads over and over again like a lot of you are doing. Once is enough. Anyway. Been nice chatting with you. I actually have more fun chatting with swagger about EoTM..

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

briggah.7910:

lil devils x.6071:

Loosmaster.8263:

This should be interesting and I think that is where they are going with this. The population for WvW is small compared to PvE. So to solve the population problem, you go after the resources.
To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS.
I really don’t think they are going to spend the time and resources to fix this game mode to appease the few that remain.
You may not like that vision but that is the bridge I see which lies ahead and we must either cross it or turn around.
Enjoy what time you have left here.

There is one big flaw in this idea of bringing PvE players into WvW. PvE players do not spend their money and buy gold every month injecting the game with a constant flow of $ to help them pay for upgrades to the game since they earn everything they need in the game instead. Changing the game to appease PvE players does not increase the money coming into the game to keep the servers open, instead it removes the players who do spend the money currently to pay for their PvE content from the game and the game will in the end be worse off financially. Removing players from the game who spend $ and replacing them with players who do not is not a sound business decision.
From my understanding, this is already becoming an issue financially.

Do you work for anet to know exactly who, what game mode they play and how much money they spend on this game??

No, they couldn’t pay me enough to work for them. When I hear from my friends that do it isn’t the cakewalk people tend to think it is.

Exactly, you don’t work there so you have no clue what players spend on this game. You basically just posted a bunch of nonsense to try and make them work faster on what they are working on..

Give it a break.. Something is coming. You can either wait and see what it is or continue to embarrass yourself by constantly complaining because we are not getting it today..

You don’t work there, and are telling me what I should do? I am hearing from people who do and you tell me I don’t know what is going on? LMAO.

Waiting is the one thing players should not do right now because if Anet goes forward with their plans " the something" will be what makes the rest of those " waiting" leave. You may be fine with an EoTM Hot WvW replacement, but the ones leaving are not..
The numbers speak for themselves, however the players need to tell them WHY this is happening.

If you are happy with the EoTM HoT nonsense great, you tell them that, just don’t complain because others are not and are letting them know. It is not your " job" to tell me or anyone else what they should and should not tell Anet.

Waiting is something players should not do? Yea ok.. keep nagging like an annoying bf/gf that won’t give you space when you need it. Even when you constantly complain it isn’t coming till it is ready. I also wish they would tell us more info but you know what? They aren’t and constantly complaining right now when we know something is coming is doing nothing but making the wvw community look sad. We thought we had to wait till end of year just for the beta but now that has changed.

I already gave my feedback about what I didn’t like about the new maps which probably got over looked due to the constant complaints.. Now its up to them to listen. If they don’t oh well I’ll adapt like I have with every change we have gotten so far. I don’t need to say the same thing in multiple threads over and over again like a lot of you are doing. Once is enough. Anyway. Been nice chatting with you. I actually have more fun chatting with swagger about EoTM..

I am not wishing they would tell us more.. I have already been told more, that is why I rushed over here before it was " too late." This isn’t " nagging" this is the final " hail mary" to try and save WvW from the EoTM HoT mess that will be what kills the game mode. Most have left, some are just going through the motions and not having fun before they finally leave… This was a final plea to Anet, that is all. When it stops that means we all left.

lil devils x.6071:

Rolling back WvW pre HoT immediately while you work on what is making players consider it unplayable would be the first thing you could do to help. Players are not going to just come play an unplayable game mode just because you add HoT participation rewards to it.

Rubbish – you’d have to take out the entire class specialization system as well for that to work. You seem to have convinced yourself that the Desert BL and guild upgrades are the source of WvW’s problems. You can keep repeating it, but each time is just as false as the first.

The source of the problems with WvW goes back to day 1 – there’s nothing to the game mode besides killing stuff, and transfers beat skill when it comes to killing stuff. There’s no reward for doing anything else. So their highest priority fix for WvW is precisely what it should be – addressing population imbalances and rewarding gameplay other than zerging.

Ben K.6238:

lil devils x.6071:

Rolling back WvW pre HoT immediately while you work on what is making players consider it unplayable would be the first thing you could do to help. Players are not going to just come play an unplayable game mode just because you add HoT participation rewards to it.

Rubbish – you’d have to take out the entire class specialization system as well for that to work. You seem to have convinced yourself that the Desert BL and guild upgrades are the source of WvW’s problems. You can keep repeating it, but each time is just as false as the first.

The source of the problems with WvW goes back to day 1 – there’s nothing to the game mode besides killing stuff, and transfers beat skill when it comes to killing stuff. There’s no reward for doing anything else. So their highest priority fix for WvW is precisely what it should be – addressing population imbalances and rewarding gameplay other than zerging.

No, I do not see that as the source of all WvW problems, I see that as stopping the current mass exodus of WvW since HoT. Since HoT alone, thousands of WvW players have left WvW and the game all together over these immediate issues. This is just to halt that so they can work on repairing the rest of what is wrong. This thread was in response to Mike Obrien’s reply on reddit to the other thread that discussed this was only temporary while they work out other issues. That other thread goes into more detail than that. Their idea of rewards isn’t the players idea of rewards and will not resolve the issue you think it will. The current plan is to bring more of the PvE HoT and EoTM systems into WvW.
“Their highest priority” will not stop the dbl boycott instead it will make those waiting for a response leave all together..

EoTM alliance system will solve the population imbalance for sure since there will not be much left to balance.

The only “PvE” WvW has is mobs standing on objectives, not the actual objectives themselves. This logic is making any capture point in any pvp game pve. CTF? The flag is PvE. Domination? The capture points are PvE.

That’s a reason to just facepalm hard whenever I see any WvWer talk about PvE in WvW.

FrizzFreston.5290:

The only “PvE” WvW has is mobs standing on objectives, not the actual objectives themselves. This logic is making any capture point in any pvp game pve. CTF? The flag is PvE. Domination? The capture points are PvE.

That’s a reason to just facepalm hard whenever I see any WvWer talk about PvE in WvW.

Environment also means " SMC airship" the crap that pops out of the ground then all the players on the screen disappear due to glitches, Excessive NPC’s…

I have played games where " the castle lord" are REAL players, all the shops in game are ran by real players, players make and do everything.. Yes that is PVE added to this game mode. The " environmental factors" that can enhance a battle need to always have a counter, for example, a player on a treb trebbing a battlefield is creating an environmental factor, but there are counters to that. You can take the guy out on the treb in many ways. There should not be anything in the game that cannot be countered, that is just stupid. Like the " being attacked by aliens you cannot fight or see" scenario. What is the fun in that? Simple environmental elements added by players near the battlefield are okay, but making ships attack you from the sky you can’t hit? Stupid as hell.

I facepalm when players actually think that RvR in this game is not more PVE than PvP compared to actual PvP games..

In games where the players have to guard the points to capture, not NPC’s that is PvP..

Well at least you’re thinking in the right way now.
Because simple removal of everything you dont like is not the right way. Plus it really isnt PvE. Its an objective. Chess pieces or tools or weapons that are too powerful are indeed annoying, but they aren’t PvE.

Most NPCs really aren’t a problem for most players. That’s why Im skeptical to that argument.

Myself, I was thinking more akin to slotted upgrades and tactics to be physically represented inside keeps and towers. And/or maybe adding things that counter defensive measures or stall or scout them out.

Buggy and laggy things should be avoided, but they happen. There is a distinction between bad design and bad programming.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Well at least you’re thinking in the right way now.
Because simple removal of everything you dont like is not the right way. Plus it really isnt PvE. Its an objective. Chess pieces or tools or weapons that are too powerful are indeed annoying, but they aren’t PvE.

Most NPCs really aren’t a problem for most players. That’s why Im skeptical to that argument.

Myself, I was thinking more akin to slotted upgrades and tactics to be physically represented inside keeps and towers. And/or maybe adding things that counter defensive measures or stall or scout them out.

Buggy and laggy things should be avoided, but they happen. There is a distinction between bad design and bad programming.

The key difference between chess pieces and PVE is that the chess pieces are controlled by actual players. Players do not control NPC’s nor does killing the player affect the NPC . Chess piece is like a treb, it does nothing without the player.

Gunner Morton.8340:

Loosmaster.8263:

To bring PvE’rs into WvW, you need to make it worth their while… REWARDS..

Who says we need PvErs in WvW?

Mmmmm I love me some fresh meat in wvw. Every time I see a pve tag in wvw my necro’s thighs tingle. I say bring more pvers in!

LET THE SLAUGHTERING BEGIN

frizz, i find your comments on point…… the challenge here seems to be balancing the fight without changing the numbers. Simply because nobody wants to move, the current mind set is most populated coverage wins. That war was over in beta, wvw is just a ghost of the first war won in wvw.

how would you balance the fights without changing 20 players vs 5 players ?

I didn’t mean that the npcs here are chess pieces. I just use that as an metaphor for the banners racecars and whatever tactics and tools.

Still though, NPCs dont really pose much of a threat. They stall people only slightly. Lords do a bit more, but still not to amazing amounts. Instantly repairing walls on cap and the 5min cooldown are doing way more than NPCs do.

Ricky.4706:

frizz, i find your comments on point…… the challenge here seems to be balancing the fight without changing the numbers. Simply because nobody wants to move, the current mind set is most populated coverage wins. That war was over in beta, wvw is just a ghost of the first war won in wvw.

how would you balance the fights without changing 20 players vs 5 players ?

I honestly do not see a way around not closing the low pop servers, that is what most games do when that happens. The population balance problems could be solved by closing Low pop servers or removing all the servers and just creating fewer of them, where everyone moves to a new server..

Then, to solve this problem long term, they need to have temporary maps in play during busy hours that are actually a part of WvW, keep score and all. Add more EBGS in play at once during busy hours for set periods of time that count just as much as all others, then let them disappear during slow hours. This solves players in queue, and players having too much map to cover.

Mushing players together to run around not communicating, with no pre set strategy that you have on coordinated servers, mashing up players who worked very hard to be where they are with players who expect them to carry them isn’t good for any PvP game mode. That is how you get a mess like the EoTM alliance system..
Really they would do the game mode a favor by making voice com and non voice com servers to start. that way everyone on that server is communicating in a way that they are comfortable with and not missing calls.

Coordinated servers plan out who goes where and when .. they coordinate and work with other commanders in ccoms, and have no problems with commanders following other guilds commanders at times to complete objectives when necessary. All of that is lost when you mash people together blindly like that.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I didn’t mean that the npcs here are chess pieces. I just use that as an metaphor for the banners racecars and whatever tactics and tools.

Still though, NPCs dont really pose much of a threat. They stall people only slightly. Lords do a bit more, but still not to amazing amounts. Instantly repairing walls on cap and the 5min cooldown are doing way more than NPCs do.

Well, yes due to players not wanting to repair their keeps.. often they let the enemy take it just so when they take it back they don’t have to fix the holes .. If they got an auto repair when they won the battle as well would be equal to the new team receiving a repaired castle.

hrmm…i was just thinking ….what if there were no wvw score at all…
Just stats – and the players can pick out aspects of their stats for ranking ?

people play wvw to win……but to win at being best at what ?

the score right now is a win for which server is best at being populated. thats kind of anti-climatic lol

Ricky.4706:

hrmm…i was just thinking ….what if there were no wvw score at all…
Just stats – and the players can pick out aspects of their stats for ranking ?

people play wvw to win……but to win at being best at what ?

the score right now is a win for which server is best at being populated. thats kind of anti-climatic lol

Most do not play wvw to win anymore. I think only YB is doing that now..
To play to win isn’t even by being populated, it is by avoiding fights and just trying to PPT instead. This equates to tons of PvD, siege humping, and seizing opportunities to take easy objectives. That is all it really means in the end. Fighting takes time away from PPT, so if you are PPT, you want to die as fast as possible if engaged in a fight so you can get back on target for fast PPT.
That is why no one cares about winning anymore. It is boring to do so. More players would rather have fun and lose than be bored and win.

exactly, i couldn’t agree more. The pvp community left because winning a wvw match is nothing to brag about.

how can we make it something to brag about ? there has to be another way to win.

What about shorter matches like EotM? Maybe over the course of the week.

Ricky.4706:

exactly, i couldn’t agree more. The pvp community left because winning a wvw match is nothing to brag about.

how can we make it something to brag about ? there has to be another way to win.

Make PPK more valuable than siege humping. The largest amount of points should be gained by killing other players and without the use of siege.

it would boost up morale because everyone loves resets – but it wouldn’t last long because it’s still a population war no matter how you paint it.

There have to be somethings that scale for the smaller server to beat a larger server. the idea is to win by strategy and endurance, not by brute force. Brute force is an option, but shouldn’t be the only option, else the entire world would be 1 big country.

FrizzFreston.5290:

What about shorter matches like EotM?

I actually thought shorter matches would be good, with the addition of fighting on any server you wish for them.. Reminds me of how they did mini games on that scrub of game Runescape. Players just went into portals before matches on castle wars to pick their teams. If one server way stale at that hour, you could play on any server for good fights. That was more " guild wars" than server wars though.

Ricky.4706:

it would boost up morale because everyone loves resets – but it wouldn’t last long because it’s still a population war no matter how you paint it.

There have to be somethings that scale for the smaller server to beat a larger server. the idea is to win by strategy and endurance, not by brute force. Brute force is an option, but shouldn’t be the only option, else the entire world would be 1 big country.

On servers where all servers in match have 24/7 coverage, it is not about population though. If they only have servers open that have 24/7 coverage, coverage wars is no longer an issue. they could do that by making fewer servers and adding the timed EBG maps. EvE is one big server..

Scaling can always be exploited and is punishing players due to more people being on their map. you should never punish players for more people playing their game mode, that is encouraging them not to play in addition to encouraging sending a bunch of afk accounts to the enemy team to get a buff for your team.

yeah, but they fight the same guys over and over again….in that sense it’s not fair to them either , especially since we know player for player t3 have way more experience against impossible odds than t1 does. the t3 guys would destroy the t1 guys in an even match, that’s a no brainer. lol – the t1 guys have no idea what it feels like to have to fight 3 to 1 odds against them.

Ricky.4706:

yeah, but they fight the same guys over and over again….in that sense it’s not fair to them either , especially since we know player for player t3 have way more experience against impossible odds than t1 does. the t3 guys would destroy the t1 guys in an even match, that’s a no brainer. lol – the t1 guys have no idea what it feels like to have to fight 3 to 1 odds against them.

You do realize most of those in T1 came from lower servers and have played/ do currently play( multiple accounts) on most tiers already? They do know. They have accounts everywhere by now.
I think it is a minority of WvW players at this stage of the game that have only played for one server.

yeah, i realize many gave up a tough challenge. we had so many big wvw guilds quit under pressure at our server, we are use to it. The ones that remain are tough as nails!!

being a top t3 server is not for the soft hearted, if you want a safer fight, go to t1.

Ricky.4706:

yeah, i realize many gave up a tough challenge. we had so many big wvw guilds quit under pressure at our server, we are use to it. The ones that remain are tough as nails!!

Considering most players I know made accounts on most servers when they were $10, then made them for every server when they went F2p, I am sure some of those " players" on your servers are also T1 players. XD

No safer fight at T1. I <3 roaming on T1, everything you do you are at risk of be face rolled by the zerg. It adds an element of urgency that you do not have on the other servers.. You have havocs, roamers, zergs all over the place T1. Lots of gank squads everywhere.

That or balanced servers. But balancing servers at the right timezone will be hard.

Not sure about this alliance EotM thing, or what that entails, but it sounds very solid towards at least population and scoring if its like EotM. Obviously, the problem returning to said organisation being alot more established currently than EotM with just being karma train land because of it. A one time full rebalance or a rebalance each quarter or so could prove interesting. But if its any time random players, thats going to be a total chaos.