Guild Wars 2

yeah, i’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, i love my server ….even though we are always scraping each other off the floor …..they never quit…and sometimes they win,….they just love fighting …that is awesome to me, and sometimes I am in the mood to kill 3 people at a time to be honest! – that doesn’t change the fact that t1 can win over t3 by mere population – that makes t1 bigger than us..yes….better …i’d have to see them fight a server 2x their size before i can answer that.

FrizzFreston.5290:

That or balanced servers. But balancing servers at the right timezone will be hard.

Not sure about this alliance EotM thing, or what that entails, but it sounds very solid towards at least population and scoring if its like EotM. Obviously, the problem returning to said organisation being alot more established currently than EotM with just being karma train land because of it. A one time full rebalance or a rebalance each quarter or so could prove interesting. But if its any time random players, thats going to be a total chaos.

It will make many unhappy either way, say you just paid to transfer away from these annoying players they just merged you with? Money back PL0X?
If they want to resolve the EoTM issue, they need to make voice com and non voice com servers as a start.

Ricky.4706:

yeah, i’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, i love my server ….even though we are always scraping each other off the floor …..they never quit…and sometimes they win,….they just love fighting …that is awesome to me, and sometimes I am in the mood to kill 3 people at a time to be honest! – that doesn’t change the fact that t1 can win over t3 by mere population – that makes t1 bigger than us..yes….better …i’d have to see them fight a server 2x their size before i can answer that.

Many here in my guild alone were on IOJ during that time of “stuck in the wrong tier” for ages… LOL
( not sure if you remember the months and months of IOJ rants here) outnumbered at least 10 to 1 at all times..

that’s the pvp’r i want to hear. we need something to brag about.

t3 takes on far bigger challenges than t1 – t1 has nothing to brag about -yawn-

their only hope to a win worth bragging about is a balanced fight vs the t3 terrors that had years of training in the t1 worst nightmare scenario. “what do you mean my blob was out blobbed and dead!!!?”

Ricky.4706:

that’s the pvp’r i want to hear. we need something to brag about.

t3 takes on far bigger challenges than kitten has nothing to brag about -yawn-

LOL.. have you tried it yet? Maybe you should be fore you make assumptions. Well maybe you should have ( b4 they broke the game) now it is just a sad shadow of it’s former self.

Now you are just being silly. :p In T1 it was 2v1 24/7 7. Every fight is supposed to be 2 vs 1 or it isn’t a fight. I have played all tiers, T1 had best fights by far. The other servers don’t know how to 3 way right.

t3 still is. look i just want my server to put the t1 people in their rightful place.

adjust the score to reflect how much better we are at strategy than they are.

Ok, they won biggest blob. – next challenge please!

Ricky.4706:

t3 still is. look i just want my server to put the t1 people in their rightful place.

adjust the score to reflect how much better we are at strategy than they are.

Ok, they won biggest blob. – next challenge please!

That isn’t what happens when you give handicaps. Instead you get players sent in by your enemies to queue your maps and you are left 10 fighting 40, and no handicap.

They don’t do fights by blob vs 10.. you do fights by 10 vs 10 and blob vs blob here. You just talk to other guild leaders and set up what you want.

yeah, but the tactics are different – a looong time ago when that power pvpr guild was running hod to 1st place, i transferred for a week to see what they were doing, their style of fighting was far different than the t3 style of fighting – was fun to compare actually because back then the t3 server was a top t3 server too, so i got to see how the best of their tier played – both very intense but different approaches.

it’s like in t1 the guy with the tag was a leader and called the shots on a large army – in t3 the guy with the tag is a marker for where all the roamers met up, since everyone randomly breaks up to do solo missions and groups up to zerg sm castle. t1 was very controlled, t3 was very spontaneous, think on your feet kind of thing.

Ricky.4706:

yeah, but the tactics are different – a looong time ago when that power pvpr guild was running hod to 1st place, i transferred for a week to see what they were doing, their style of fighting was far different than the t3 style of fighting – was fun to compare actually because back then the t3 server was a top t3 server too, so i got to see how the best of their tier played – both very intense but different approaches.

it’s like in t1 the guy with the tag was a leader and called the shots on a large army – in t3 the guy with the tag is a marker for where all the roamers met up, since everyone randomly breaks up to do solo missions and groups up to zerg sm castle.

JQ was always different. Many smaller guild groups of 15-20 coordinating together on Ccoms , sometimes merging and sometimes separating. working together implementing strategies sometime busting the blob into smaller teams as needed. One thing that was said of JQ by enemies was we could not pull together a map que into one blob if we tried.. We can, but didn’t see the fun in that most of the time. This was " controlled" the coordination level is much higher, have more coordination with guild raid builds and party composition as well. builds are designed for specific strategies and you are expected to be able to run different builds for different tactics. Most everyone is expected to be able to play multiple classes well as needed and be wiling to change out to what the party comp needs.

makes sense, it sounds like you are a hybrid tactic of t1 and t3

where you broke up in guilds …..as in t3 we broke up to solo roamers – many occasions I’m capping a camp solo and 3 other roamers suddenly pop up, then we run together can cap a building, meet up with more …cap a tower …..suddenly we are a zerg , someone throws up a tag and we are going for the castle lol – if we fail, we break down to solo roamers again, if we win, we keep the zerg running as long as possible.

meanwhile in chat as solo roamers we are calling out any zergs / groups / danger we see in chat and group accordingly. it’s crazy, one minute it’s quiet, next minute you are running with 50 people into a big sm battle

lil devils x.6071:

Ricky.4706:

hrmm…i was just thinking ….what if there were no wvw score at all…
Just stats – and the players can pick out aspects of their stats for ranking ?

people play wvw to win……but to win at being best at what ?

the score right now is a win for which server is best at being populated. thats kind of anti-climatic lol

Most do not play wvw to win anymore. I think only YB is doing that now..
To play to win isn’t even by being populated, it is by avoiding fights and just trying to PPT instead. This equates to tons of PvD, siege humping, and seizing opportunities to take easy objectives. That is all it really means in the end. Fighting takes time away from PPT, so if you are PPT, you want to die as fast as possible if engaged in a fight so you can get back on target for fast PPT.
That is why no one cares about winning anymore. It is boring to do so. More players would rather have fun and lose than be bored and win.

Odd that you say that because you came from a guild that has the biggest Queenie of PPT of them all. But I call it something else that would turn into a kitten here, lol.

Ricky.4706:

makes sense, it sounds like you are a hybrid tactic of t1 and t3

where you broke up in guilds …..as in t1 we broke up to solo roamers – many occasions I’m capping a camp solo and 3 other roamers suddenly pop up, then we run together can cap a building, meet up with more …cap a tower …..suddenly we are a zerg , someone throws up a tag and we are going for the castle lol – if we fail, we break down to solo roamers again, if we win, we keep the zerg running as long as possible.

You can’t take castle in T1 that way.. LOL
You have to strategically hit multiple targets and make them choose which they will save, divide forces or the easiest 2 vs 1 it.

Loosmaster.8263:

lil devils x.6071:

Ricky.4706:

hrmm…i was just thinking ….what if there were no wvw score at all…
Just stats – and the players can pick out aspects of their stats for ranking ?

people play wvw to win……but to win at being best at what ?

the score right now is a win for which server is best at being populated. thats kind of anti-climatic lol

Most do not play wvw to win anymore. I think only YB is doing that now..
To play to win isn’t even by being populated, it is by avoiding fights and just trying to PPT instead. This equates to tons of PvD, siege humping, and seizing opportunities to take easy objectives. That is all it really means in the end. Fighting takes time away from PPT, so if you are PPT, you want to die as fast as possible if engaged in a fight so you can get back on target for fast PPT.
That is why no one cares about winning anymore. It is boring to do so. More players would rather have fun and lose than be bored and win.

Odd that you say that because you came for a guild that has the biggest Queenie of PPT of them all. But I call it something else that would turn into a kitten here, lol.

LOL.. I was only in that guild because Toy was.. and I asked him WTF they were doing?! from day 1 and he got an earful about how bad they were. ROFL… XD
Remember.. we started a rebellion? I have that Jean guy blocked because he wouldn’t stop whispering me how he was going to have a heart attack.

well, i can’t say how t1 is today, but i can say i saw what drove Hod to skyrocket to number 1 – a rockstar set of commanders that were running the whole server day and night. it wasn’t just a bunch of guilds working together, it was one guild running all guilds – was cool to watch, but too strict for me actually – everyone kept ratting each other out if we didn’t follow the plan :p

Ricky.4706:

well, i can’t say how t1 is today, but i can say i saw what drove Hod to skyrocket to number 1 – a rockstar set of commanders that were running the whole server day and night. it wasn’t just a bunch of guilds working together, it was one guild running all guilds – was cool to watch, but too strict for me actually – everyone kept ratting each other out if we didn’t follow the plan :p

Yea it does have to be more strict on classes, builds, parties, and strategies, because messing up means you brought the team down. You can have more people calling the shots and be creative with strategies, just yes, most things do need to be coordinated since you are not dealing with randoms anymore. Instead everyone is an organized
seasoned vet and they are expecting you. “Pugs” on T1 are on voice coms, in the right class and build making vocal calls like everyone else.

lil devils x.6071:

You can’t take castle in T1 that way.. LOL
You have to strategically hit multiple targets and make them choose which they will save, divide forces or the easiest 2 vs 1 it.

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it’s the same concept in t3 actually – except we aren’t dispatching any groups …you just look at the map and when you see the right targets capped you know whats coming next. we go for things when the opportunity presents itself, since we don’t always have the numbers to create that opportunity vs a larger server. we make larger servers uneasy by being unpredictable roamers.

Ricky.4706:

lil devils x.6071:

You can’t take castle in T1 that way.. LOL
You have to strategically hit multiple targets and make them choose which they will save, divide forces or the easiest 2 vs 1 it.

it’s the same concept in t3 actually – except we aren’t dispatching any groups …you just look at the map and when you see the right targets capped you know whats coming next. we go for things when the opportunity presents itself, since we don’t always have the numbers to create that opportunity vs a larger server. we make larger servers uneasy by being unpredictable roamers.

You have to do that on T1 as well.. just roamers are only really effective as aggro / interference pking though since every tower was usually heavily sieged, defended and scouted. (B4 HoT anyhow) B4 HoT there were no undefended targets.. You can expect a mob to be on your face within 3-5 seconds of touching anything at any given time. Freaking reminds me of the 3 trebs 12 acs , balis at that camp by Hel guild .. OMG that was such a pain lol.

You have to be unpredictable with numbers.. which is even harder to do. HAHA

i do hope the developers are reading our discussion, it shows what pvprs enjoy about wvw – coming up with strategies for different scenarios is the rush for us, it isn’t fair that t1 will be stuck fighting 3 other servers with the same population all the time, there are hard core strategists all over the the different tiers that would love to compete with like minds.

But this population wins rule keeps us from competing.

Ricky.4706:

i do hope the developers are reading our discussion, it shows what pvprs enjoy about wvw – coming up with strategies for different scenarios is the rush for us, it isn’t fair that t1 will be stuck fighting 3 other servers with the same population all the time, there are hard core strategists all over the the different tiers that would love to compete with like minds.

But this population wins rule keeps us from competing.

Not really the population issue keeping us from competing, T3 was made into the new " fight tier" and the guilds agreed at the time to not move up is why it stayed there. They didn’t want to win and were rigging the matches last I heard. After the TW / ONS alliance went to YB the fight guilds protested by moving from T2 to T3. They had previously refused to move to T1 and That alliance threw everything off. Politics are what keep servers from competing moreso than anything else. Guilds and alliances decide who is in what tier.

i dont’ see that on my server – we are mostly pugs, with some wvw guilds – excellent pvprs but pretty much casual hardcore – it’s not about winning on our server. Although i do believe we wouldn’t enjoy t2 either because the politics – we heard enough of the ‘we are upset because we didn’t win’ – the people that stayed on my server just want a great fight – win or lose. you hear more laughing than complaining in our chats lol – I have heard stories about t2 servers wanting to drop to t3 for the tournaments though – that’s not purebred t3, thats a t2 server that wants to be top fighter in their category but can’t win their true category. which is understandable too, because their top servers in t2 greatly outnumber their lower ranked servers, so they were a victim of the population wins rule too.

Ricky.4706:

i dont’ see that on my server – we are mostly pugs, with some wvw guilds – excellent pvprs but pretty much casual hardcore – it’s not about winning on our server. Although i do believe we wouldn’t enjoy t2 either because the politics – we heard enough of the ‘we are upset because we didn’t win’ – the people that stayed on my server just want a great fight – win or lose. you hear more laughing than complaining in our chats lol

What server? The guilds all agreed which servers they were going to ahead of time. The creation of the new fight tier in T3 was to keep them all in same tier, not win. Though everything since HoT may have changed so not sure of the current status since I have been keeping up with it since.

Darkhaven! a fitting name for a server that just wants a great fight! if you are ever in need for a break from politics and just want to fight – come visit us, drama free, we die , we res, we regroup, it’s that simple! – lots of pina coladas!! lol

people that want to win, hate us, but they hate us more when we win lol

lil devils x.6071:

Ricky.4706:

exactly, i couldn’t agree more. The pvp community left because winning a wvw match is nothing to brag about.

how can we make it something to brag about ? there has to be another way to win.

Make PPK more valuable than siege humping. The largest amount of points should be gained by killing other players and without the use of siege.

This would promote blobbing even more. It would also make it so that no force would engage another unless they had superior numbers than that other force. We saw this the first time PPK was a thing.

At this point I don’t know if WvW can be saved as we knew it. The fun I find anymore is running with my guild, and fighting. Whether that’s open field, defense, or sieging; the fun is in the fighting, attacking, and defending. No one I play with even really cares too much about PPT anymore except as a way to draw fights.

or a server we want to pick on – like take something very close to their respawn just to annoy them and let them know we don’t care about their zerg lol

like a tickle game – you poke em here their zerg jumps, poke em there, their zerg jumps again – meanwhile some random guy is trebbing the kittens out of the castle – and the solo thieves keep capping their camps …… it’s hilarious actually.

we don’t always get the castle that way, but watching them run around like maniacs is a riot….very slapstick pvp – come to think about it, especially fun when doing it with an asuran – a server full of brats that would rather annoy you than win the fight heh!

infact, shout out to maguuma, they play the same way and our matches are often hilarious. camps in our matches often look like disco lights from so many times they get flipped lol

it just hit me, I just had a moment of clarity of what would fix wvw balance

an all asuran wvw server – then you will understand the true meaning of server pride!!

stonemist wasn’t built for bookahs! THAT would be a meaningful score!!

asurans will then claim their rightful 1st place in wvw, no more carrying the weight of these useless short eared non asuran neanderthal. Everyone knows that asurans do things better.

admit it, now you want to know what an all asuran blob looks like! don’t make us pull out our golems!

and i’m not saying we should divide wvw into races, we just need 1 asuran wvw server – the rest of the races need each others support to face us, no other race is as loved as the asurans so they wouldn’t be able to fill a wvw server anyways.

Just had a thought… you know how EotM shuts down every three hours and resets, right? What if all the WvW maps were on the same schedule…? Award points for winning these little “micro-weeks”. Servers get 3 points for winning the PPT in the “micro-week” three hour window, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third. The final weekly winner would be the server that collected the most 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place points, instead of the raw PPT total score.

That would make off-hours ticks of 500+ worth the same as prime ticks of 270… it wouldn’t matter how much you win your time slot by, only the fact that you won, or came in second or third, would contribute to your server’s overall weekly score. All those hours your opponent is putting in to milk easy uncontested PPT wouldn’t count for anything more than the hours you put in doing work, defending and taking. Points Per Kill could be expressed as “the bonus point” for your window, whichever server carried the best Kills to Deaths ratio would be awarded one extra point for that time slot.

You really wouldn’t need to reset the maps, either, simply include a scorekeeping/countdown panel that tracked the current scoring vs the total weekly score.

Maybe 3 hour scoring windows are too small… Maybe 4 or 6 or 8 hour windows?

Otay Ranchero.5487:

Just had a thought… you know how EotM shuts down every three hours and resets, right? What if all the WvW maps were on the same schedule…? Award points for winning these little “micro-weeks”. Servers get 3 points for winning the PPT in the “micro-week” three hour window, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third. The final weekly winner would be the server that collected the most 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place points, instead of the raw PPT total score.

That would make off-hours ticks of 500+ worth the same as prime ticks of 270… it wouldn’t matter how much you win your time slot by, only the fact that you won, or came in second or third, would contribute to your server’s overall weekly score. All those hours your opponent is putting in to milk easy uncontested PPT wouldn’t count for anything more than the hours you put in doing work, defending and taking. Points Per Kill could be expressed as “the bonus point” for your window, whichever server carried the best Kills to Deaths ratio would be awarded one extra point for that time slot.

You really wouldn’t need to reset the maps, either, simply include a scorekeeping/countdown panel that tracked the current scoring vs the total weekly score.

Maybe 3 hour scoring windows are too small… Maybe 4 or 6 or 8 hour windows?

1 Week is plenty and Megaservers would only ruin the idea of Sever pride (which is what WvW is and does).

Please DO NOT PUT MEGASERVER INTO WvW.

no but make an all asuran wvw server so we can show you what server pride is all about! :p

One week is too much time to collect raw PPT scores… the scoring gaps are too large. The nature of empty maps ticking +500 for the same window of time every day (e.g. night capping) places too much value on time frames that are easily manipulated by the few who care to do so. A closer score, at least by appearances, would encourage more participation.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Otay Ranchero.5487:

Just had a thought… you know how EotM shuts down every three hours and resets, right? What if all the WvW maps were on the same schedule…? Award points for winning these little “micro-weeks”. Servers get 3 points for winning the PPT in the “micro-week” three hour window, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third. The final weekly winner would be the server that collected the most 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place points, instead of the raw PPT total score.

That would make off-hours ticks of 500+ worth the same as prime ticks of 270… it wouldn’t matter how much you win your time slot by, only the fact that you won, or came in second or third, would contribute to your server’s overall weekly score. All those hours your opponent is putting in to milk easy uncontested PPT wouldn’t count for anything more than the hours you put in doing work, defending and taking. Points Per Kill could be expressed as “the bonus point” for your window, whichever server carried the best Kills to Deaths ratio would be awarded one extra point for that time slot.

You really wouldn’t need to reset the maps, either, simply include a scorekeeping/countdown panel that tracked the current scoring vs the total weekly score.

Maybe 3 hour scoring windows are too small… Maybe 4 or 6 or 8 hour windows?

1 Week is plenty and Megaservers would only ruin the idea of Sever pride (which is what WvW is and does).

Please DO NOT PUT MEGASERVER INTO WvW.

I don’t think you actually read that post.

What it’s suggesting is giving victory over the week to whoever gains the greatest share of 56 available points, which you get by leading PPT for three hours. Aside from that it’s the same as before.