Guild Wars 2

Since when did WvW become about watching the decay timer?

I agree with those saying yak defense needs to be rewarding, at least in participation. Caravans are a fundamental part of today’s wvw.

• Yaks deliver supply to objectives
• A lot of Yaks are required to upgrade objectives
• Killing an enemy Yak scores points
• A vanishing Yak icon on the map can reveal enemy locations

All together this makes yak defense a really big deal that most people don’t appreciate.

I’m deeply against that change which is a big design mistake.

Recent politics shown a will to increase rewards : participation rewards, and skirmishes rewards. And those were a good thing, and an incentive for players, new or old, to come back. The queues in BL’s since skirmishes rewards have been aired are a neat evidence of this.
Now, rewards are tied to participation, and the message of this change is : you’ll have a harder time to get participation. Which means : you’ll have a harder time to get rewards. As someone stated : keeping participation high won’t be a pleasure, it will be a chore. Of course, WvW should be played for itself, but it’s obvious that the game mode isn’t attractive enough for itself to keep players going.
I’ll add on that first idea that new players already have a hard time gaining skirmishes pips, and that change will put back their head in the mud, which is a strong turndown for new blood.

Now, as a lot above stated, it’s also a turndown for parts of the gamemode itself : scouting, roaming, and in a nutshell, the whole small scale scene will be struck hard by this change. Even attacking a defended keep will be a risk ! There’re also other situations where the change is bad :

1. Just imagine the oddities of matchups provides you with a strong domination over the two others. You go to home BL because that’s the only one available. It’s mostly your colour. You can switch map because of queues. You’re doomed, and you just leave and do something else.
2. You’re a somehow new player in WvW that doesn’t know how to play well, and enjoys doing small stuff like sentries and camps. You go outside of spawn, you take a camp, you run a bit, you’re ganked. By the time you reach another objective without being ganked, you’re back to zero. You won’t probably go back to WvW anytime soon.

There’s no need to be paranoid or have an especially twisted mind to imagine a bunch of players will recognize themselves in such scenarios. And I’m sure there’re a lot of others ! Yet I also recall devs stated they wanted players to actively play the game. If playing what the game has to offer in several not-so-rare situations is that unrewarding that it’s just isn’t worth bothering, players shall go do something else.

So my conclusion is : considering how much those changes may impair the participation gains for new players, there’re very strong odds that all the new blood that came because of skirmishes chests may just drop WvW for good, and I don’t think that’s desirable.

On a side not on the gank topic. I think it’d be a good idea to give a player 5mn participation decay, should he get damaged by an enemy player (directly or through siege).
It’s already frustrating enough to be killed, and if a kill means losing time hence participation reset, it adds to the frustration. Death is a punition in itself, having to run back is enough. It’s not a matter of l2p or “git gud”. It’s a fight : one loses, one wins. The losing part may have done its best, and deserves a little something for that.
I also underline the reset should be on damage, and not on kill, because I can foresee gangs of trolls just downing other players to make them waste time, and I really don’t want that to happen. That would also solve the case of spawn camping.

• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
These are not fine. Roaming is an extremely important factor in WvW and this punishes them way too hard. A solo or small group taking camps and killing Dolyaks to prevent supply is equally as important as a big blob going around taking objectives.
This one needs to change asap. By denying roamers their already low rewards, you’re effectively sending the wrong message that everyone should group up into a big blob in WvW and that’s how it’s supposed to be played.
These all need to be 10min each

• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes
These are not fine either. These hurt scouters and those actually doing some good for their server. Scouting, escorting Caravans to get their upgrades is a good thing and shouldn’t be punished. They need an effective way to maintain their participation while they do their scouting. Very few commanders actually give participation share to their scouters, as they’re not aware of this option or they just prefer every player to be with the blob.
These need to be 10min each as well

You guys did a magnificent job with this WvW update and the outnumbered rework is excellent. So please don’t go ahead and ruin this, you have a good thing going on here.

Blackwyn.8127:

• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
These are not fine. Roaming is an extremely important factor in WvW and this punishes them way too hard. A solo or small group taking camps and killing Dolyaks to prevent supply is equally as important as a big blob going around taking objectives.
This one needs to change asap. By denying roamers their already low rewards, you’re effectively sending the wrong message that everyone should group up into a big blob in WvW and that’s how it’s supposed to be played.
These all need to be 10min each

• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes
These are not fine either. These hurt scouters and those actually doing some good for their server. Scouting, escorting Caravans to get their upgrades is a good thing and shouldn’t be punished. They need an effective way to maintain their participation while they do their scouting. Very few commanders actually give participation share to their scouters, as they’re not aware of this option or they just prefer every player to be with the blob.
These need to be 10min each as well

You guys did a magnificent job with this WvW update and the outnumbered rework is excellent. So please don’t go ahead and ruin this, you have a good thing going on here.

I don’t know the reset times before the change, but it wasn’t 10 min for everything.

With this we would be exactly where we were before:
People go 10 min afk, step out of the keep to a yak, get the event, go afk for 10 min, earn pips.

Everyone is hurt by this. It needs to change. But I do like the change of switching maps and not being able to get outnumbered (too many map hoppers ruining outnumbered maps).

Deihnyx.6318:

At the very least they need to add something for trying to cap something, or almost capping something. I shouldn’t be getting a timer while fighting a lord in a tower after destroying wall… that’s participating.

And thats just a tower you tried to solo. Now imagine a T3 keep that a 50 man zerg is trying to cap for a long, long time.

People will leave the squad to hunt for participation, lol.

I’m starting to wonder whether we are supposed to play WvW or sit with a calculator and account for every minite just to keep getting rewards.

Anet you are turning a fun and free form game mode into a race against the clock for participation kittencake.

Seems reasonable and well thought out. It’s arguable that the increased distances on redBL might need a slight increase to the 2 minute and 5 minute stuff, but it’s a solid concept.

I find it telling that you get 5 minutes for killing the lord even if you get wiped before you can cap. That makes it obvious to me that the times were set up by somebody who actually plays WvW.

I knew adding in an additional way to gain loot in WvW was going to end up being a bad thing.

Oh well, I’m going to continue roaming, because I’m there for the fights and not the, shiny rewards…

I am one of those players that farm pips on off hours so let me share my methods and how this patch effected it.

I start by raising max participation as fast as possible to 195, mostly by solo capping camps, sentries, the occasional tower and player. A few times the late night crew is still there which speeds up this step.

At this point, I start a alarm for 4m 45s and as soon the tick pops I activate it and switch out of WvW and start farming nodes/give apples to npcs/do hot events/ectra. When the timer is close to 0, I jump back to wvw and get my first free tick. Click on the alarm again and jump back out of WvW, and only return when the timer is at 1:30. At that point I go and look for a objective, usually a camp, and restart the process hopefully at the next tick.

The reason why I in the past already targeted camps is that the tick and the decay are not always in perfect sync, so I usually need to recover a bit of lost participation every 10th tick or so, and a camp with a few yaks do this perfectly.

The point of the farm is to sacrifice a bit of farm time to get “free” tickets/reward track skins. As it stands, it slows down gold farming by about 20%, which I consider a fair trade.

The participation patch had a very minor effect on my pip farm. Today when I ran my farm it had no noticeable effect, and if anything it seems that there were less roaming defenders in the camps which resulted in better reliability in refreshing participation. The only effect the patch had was on outnumbered which for me represented about 2 pips or about 20%. It means that I will likely finish diamond rank a day later than normally, through that is based on summer times when the zerg commander is on vacation.

Rhiannon.1726:

draxynnic.3719:

Rhiannon.1726:

kathy.8291:

Are you serious decay timer? I understand you want everyone to be active so you dont have afkers getting pips. What about defending a tower or a keep and im alone not getting participation, It will start to decay? What about the guild raiding for 2 hours and decides to take a medium break to give players a chance to go to the bathroom, get something to eat the participation starts to decay? Seriously Anet just keep destroying WvW.

You get 10 min for a defense event.

Decay always started after 10 min (AFAIK). So nothing changed there.

Getting credit for defence events is pretty hit and miss. I’ve had a few times when I’ve participated in a defence and not received credit, and that’s without even considering times when the defence you provide is in the form of providing a deterrent and the enemy doesn’t engage.

That wasn’t different before the patch. When you didn’t get it, decay didn’t reset.

Sure, but it shows that you can defend without renewing your decay timer. When the decay timer is a default 10min for most things, that’s not likely to be an issue very often. When your decay timer might be less… well, people just might not have the time to defend, especially in cases where the defence is in the form of ‘the enemy roamers don’t attack in the first place because they’re deterred by your presence’.

Dawdler.8521:

Deihnyx.6318:

At the very least they need to add something for trying to cap something, or almost capping something. I shouldn’t be getting a timer while fighting a lord in a tower after destroying wall… that’s participating.

And thats just a tower you tried to solo. Now imagine a T3 keep that a 50 man zerg is trying to cap for a long, long time.

People will leave the squad to hunt for participation, lol.

I’m starting to wonder whether we are supposed to play WvW or sit with a calculator and account for every minite just to keep getting rewards.

Anet you are turning a fun and free form game mode into a race against the clock for participation kittencake.

If it takes you a long time to cap a t3 keep, there are enemies to kill and guards that respawn.

Otherwise I’m wondering what you do for more than 10 min in a keep.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

…

The reset times are as follows:
…
• Destroying a fortification – 5 minutes
• Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute
…

It is still possible that we will tweak these numbers going forward.

My own experience from today: I already had participation Tier5, about 80%. I was in our tower, started to trebing Stonemist Castle. Everytime I hit the walls it gave me little less than 1% to participation. Fine. Walls went down slowly as walls do But all of a sudden I realized my decay timer started though I was still hiting the SM walls.

So, option 1 is I dont understand your statement about siege damage wall and it means that using siege against walls/doors isnt enough. Well, I think we can easily agree here it is NOT afking, that using siege is actually active play …

Option2: it should have been enough but it’s not working …

Repairing (rebuilding after being destroyed) cannons, mortar & oil does not count as participation it seems? Should be the same as wall repair.

Nidome.1365:

Currently when solo scouting your home border the following often takes place:
1) You see an orange dot at a sentry near a camp.
2) You move to defend the camp.
3) The enemy runs away.
4) You recap sentry to keep participation
5) 2-10 mins later back to step (1)

Except under the new system step 4 no longer resets your participation to full

Finely…… Some one with a brain posted. I was thinking I would have to explain it. I love these changes because people can’t abuse this reward system in this way anymore. If it was me I would go a step further by saying capturing a sentry should give 3 minutes not 5.

koffein.9374:

Is I dont understand your statement about siege damage wall and it means that using siege against walls/doors isnt enough. Well, I think we can easily agree here it is NOT afking, that using siege is actually active play …

I will make you understand. It is quite simple. It does count for active play but only to a point. Making those who just afk trebing SMC all day long with a script rewardless. Anet has just fixed quite a lot of things that have been being abused in this game for year now. The changes they have made is nothing short then brilliant.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I haven’t even logged in yet, but I’m sick of the complaints about scouting. If you really are scouting, then you should be in a squad and get participation sharing. You literally don’t have to do anything and you get participation. If you don’t want to join a squad, and don’t want participation because you want to flip camps/sentries, then you’re not scouting. If you don’t want to join a squad, really scout, get the squad participation, then you’re just not even being a team player. There’s a big difference between actually scouting an roaming.

Um, i believe you do not know how squads work, at least indirectly. Most roamers are thieves and rangers nowadays. And these classes are kicked so fast from squads that there is no hope of getting participation. Roaming is the ONLY thing thieves and rangers can do nowadays in wvw, unless your in a guild-only squad and short handed of course.

Carighan.6758:

Literally I guess, “learn to play at peak hours”? :P

It’s really not hard at non-peak hours. Capture camps. If you can’t capture camps, you need to learn to play.

All these pve tears are hilarious.

Rhiannon.1726:

Blackwyn.8127:

• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
These are not fine. Roaming is an extremely important factor in WvW and this punishes them way too hard. A solo or small group taking camps and killing Dolyaks to prevent supply is equally as important as a big blob going around taking objectives.
This one needs to change asap. By denying roamers their already low rewards, you’re effectively sending the wrong message that everyone should group up into a big blob in WvW and that’s how it’s supposed to be played.
These all need to be 10min each

• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes
These are not fine either. These hurt scouters and those actually doing some good for their server. Scouting, escorting Caravans to get their upgrades is a good thing and shouldn’t be punished. They need an effective way to maintain their participation while they do their scouting. Very few commanders actually give participation share to their scouters, as they’re not aware of this option or they just prefer every player to be with the blob.
These need to be 10min each as well

You guys did a magnificent job with this WvW update and the outnumbered rework is excellent. So please don’t go ahead and ruin this, you have a good thing going on here.

I don’t know the reset times before the change, but it wasn’t 10 min for everything.

With this we would be exactly where we were before:
People go 10 min afk, step out of the keep to a yak, get the event, go afk for 10 min, earn pips.

As far as I’m aware, everything except the monuments were 10min, could be wrong on this one though.
As far as the “fix”. No fix should come at the expense and cost of those that actually do play the mode as intended. You’re not really fixing anything then.

Oh noo… the game finally makes you have to Actively play/participate to get rewards and maintain participation. Oh the horror.

You can really see who the afk reward leechers are.

msalakka.4653:

All these pve tears are hilarious.

Throw in some rewards with pips and participation and suddenly whole wvw revolves around those 2! Now i feel stupid playing this game mode for years for the messy battles….

Mrs Qurly.9372:

Repairing (rebuilding after being destroyed) cannons, mortar & oil does not count as participation it seems? Should be the same as wall repair.

They never have given participation unfortunately – the work around I used to use was not to fully repair the wall/gate and switch between siege repairs and wall/gate repairs – however with the decay timer changes this is now less viable so siege repairs (oil/cannon/mortar) should also count as repairs for participation purposes.

Being killed by an enemy should reset your decay timer as well because sometimes you loose a fight.

a vote should have been made before implementing this change or at least let WvWers try it for couple days then we should vote on it have link to vote on WvW tab so no pve player will vote for something they dont know thats the way it should be Anet ……

They had to do something folks. I always participate and never do I go AFK to farm pips. For anyone that did do that, you are the reason this change was instituted. Stop abusing the system and participate. Now even more so you will have to participate. I played for 4 hours last night and it was fantastic. Thank you ANET for making it so people can not be lazy kitten, and making things seem a bit more fair for everyone that was being honest about it.

Sly.9518:

Oh noo… the game finally makes you have to Actively play/participate to get rewards and maintain participation. Oh the horror.

You can really see who the afk reward leechers are.

No, the only people you can tell from this thread are who the mindless ktrainers are.

Nidome.1365:

Sly.9518:

Oh noo… the game finally makes you have to Actively play/participate to get rewards and maintain participation. Oh the horror.

You can really see who the afk reward leechers are.

No, the only people you can tell from this thread are who the mindless ktrainers are.

lol, WvW is about the large scale fights. Even a roamer does at least 1 thing in a 10 minute time span.

This is what i see when these “roamers” complain that they cant keep participation because they aren’t actually doing anything:

Klipso.8653:

Nidome.1365:

Sly.9518:

Oh noo… the game finally makes you have to Actively play/participate to get rewards and maintain participation. Oh the horror.

You can really see who the afk reward leechers are.

No, the only people you can tell from this thread are who the mindless ktrainers are.

lol, WvW is about the large scale fights. Even a roamer does at least 1 thing in a 10 minute time span.

This is what i see when these “roamers” complain that they cant keep participation because they aren’t actually doing anything:

Spot on! 100% correct! They want something for nothing!

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

I think some people are confused and think that whenever you do something that gives participation it adds to the decay, which has not been and is not the case. For example when you take an objective, it gives you 10 minutes before your participation will start to decay; then if you kill a guard it will only reset to 2 minutes if you have less than 2 minutes left otherwise it won’t affect the timer. This is how it has always worked; the only thing we have changed is the reset time for each action.

The reset times are as follows:
• Killing a Player – 10 minutes
• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Destroying a fortification – 5 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
• Killing or reviving a merc npc – 1 minute
• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute
• Destroying Siege – 5 minute
• Killing a Veteran Creature – 5 minutes

These happen on event completion:
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Completing a Merc Event – 5 minutes
• Completing a Defend Event – 10 minutes
• Capturing an objective – 10 minutes
• Capturing a Ruin or Shrine – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes

It is still possible that we will tweak these numbers going forward.

Question:
Destroying Siege – 5 minute
Does this include not fully built siege?

Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
Are Veteran Guards the same as Veteran Scouts (wiki (link here) implies they are not counted the same) on participation but both are the same when delaying decay timer? … oddity

Why isn’t auto-generated tower/keep siege (cannons, oil, mortars only) included when destroying siege – 5 minute is included?

What about Siege disables and other WvW traps that are triggered?

By the way, there has been an odd Defend Camp or Defend Sentry issue to get event credit for a very long time (i.e. kill players or kill mercenaries in a camp or rez the Veteran Supervisor) and you’ll never get credit if you then leave the camp radius or sentry radius before the event timer is up…this same requirement does not apply to towers/keeps event defense.

My experience last night was this: It took me just over 40 minutes to get to 100% T6 roaming, here and there a lost tier along the way to get there. I have been away on vacation and wanted to get the last 2 wood chests done, as I might not have much time to play in WvW the rest of the week. Toward the end of the night, got the outnumbered bonus, so stayed in for as long as I could. Kept taking camps, while the enemy zerg was occupied, but after about 20 mins of getting the outnumbered bonus, I got a connection error and that was the end of the nights pips

Sarrs.4831:

It’s really not hard at non-peak hours. Capture camps. If you can’t capture camps, you need to learn to play.

Isn’t a camp only 2 minutes?

Klipso.8653:

Nidome.1365:

Sly.9518:

Oh noo… the game finally makes you have to Actively play/participate to get rewards and maintain participation. Oh the horror.

You can really see who the afk reward leechers are.

No, the only people you can tell from this thread are who the mindless ktrainers are.

lol, WvW is about the large scale fights. Even a roamer does at least 1 thing in a 10 minute time span.

This is what i see when these “roamers” complain that they cant keep participation because they aren’t actually doing anything:

If WvW was just about large scale fights it would just be a single open field. Your interest in WvW may just be large scale fights, but there is far more to WvW than that.

With these changes semi-afk pip farmers now have an advantage over border scouts and roamers. I’ve seen them standing in clusters near the warg/harpy spawn points – kill the vet and then afk for 5 mins and repeat. Proof they are afk? – walking up to a group of 4 enemies stood on the vista south of hills and killing them all without any of them even moving. The only reason I saw them was because an enemy roamer flipped their spawn camp and I went to flip it back taking the route through hills rather than through the sentry. I have no idea how long they had been pip farming there as the previous two times flipping the camp back I went via the sentry and WP’d back to garri after flipping.
I’ve seen pip farmers on my own server at the warg point when heading from spawn to south camp on the enemy alpine border.
The alternative to this is the active player who is repairing cannons, mortars & oil after an attack on bay only to spot that their participation is decaying and has already dropped two tiers – you can continue to actively participate in WvW for the benefit of your server by continuing to repair and loose all of your “participation” or you can leave the repairs incomplete to get your participation back up.

The changes to the decay timers has very little impact on the pip farmers.

Meanwhile at ANet.

http://new4.fjcdn.com/gifs/Wildcard+kittenes_4f5e7b_4582015.gif

ANet’s game design team likes to overly complicate portions of their game.

There is zero purpose to complicate participation and pip acquisition to this decay system that’s associated with many variables of maintaining it.

I have just never seen a development team at any levels go to great lengths to over-engineer simple systems.

you posted no proof just your baseless claim, of them being afk.

These changes force players to participate actively or they decay faster than they can gain participation, and it forces players away from Safe afk spots like Spawn and Keeps to maintain participation.

Again this thread really shows who all the afk leechers are. Especially if they are complaining about having to kill a guard/sentry or flip a camp within 5-10 minutes minimum. Especially with most camps and towers having multiple objectives/ mobs in between to count towards participation.

This actively forces players to be participating in the gamemode. And if you are worried about refreshing siege guess what while goin between objectives players can detour through a tower/keep and refresh since it doesn’t take more than 2 minutes to refresh siege in almost every objective. Again only Leechers are affected by this change

Rhiannon.1726:

Dawdler.8521:

Deihnyx.6318:

At the very least they need to add something for trying to cap something, or almost capping something. I shouldn’t be getting a timer while fighting a lord in a tower after destroying wall… that’s participating.

And thats just a tower you tried to solo. Now imagine a T3 keep that a 50 man zerg is trying to cap for a long, long time.

People will leave the squad to hunt for participation, lol.

I’m starting to wonder whether we are supposed to play WvW or sit with a calculator and account for every minite just to keep getting rewards.

Anet you are turning a fun and free form game mode into a race against the clock for participation kittencake.

If it takes you a long time to cap a t3 keep, there are enemies to kill and guards that respawn.

Otherwise I’m wondering what you do for more than 10 min in a keep.

Oh you mean the enemies that never comes out of the keep because they are sitting on the 20 ACs covering every inch of the outside area and the guards that 20 people kill in 1 second while you are busy trying to heal the rest of the zerg getting slaughtered from the previously mentioned ACs that has at least 3 overlaps?

I dont know what tier you play in but if it takes you that fast to cap a T3 keep its either undefended or the enemy want you to cap it.

Dawdler.8521:

Rhiannon.1726:

Dawdler.8521:

Deihnyx.6318:

At the very least they need to add something for trying to cap something, or almost capping something. I shouldn’t be getting a timer while fighting a lord in a tower after destroying wall… that’s participating.

And thats just a tower you tried to solo. Now imagine a T3 keep that a 50 man zerg is trying to cap for a long, long time.

People will leave the squad to hunt for participation, lol.

I’m starting to wonder whether we are supposed to play WvW or sit with a calculator and account for every minite just to keep getting rewards.

Anet you are turning a fun and free form game mode into a race against the clock for participation kittencake.

If it takes you a long time to cap a t3 keep, there are enemies to kill and guards that respawn.

Otherwise I’m wondering what you do for more than 10 min in a keep.

Oh you mean the enemies that never comes out of the keep because they are sitting on the 20 ACs covering every inch of the outside area and the guards that 20 people kill in 1 second while you are busy trying to heal the rest of the zerg getting slaughtered from the previously mentioned ACs that has at least 3 overlaps?

I dont know what tier you play in but if it takes you that fast to cap a T3 keep its either undefended or the enemy want you to cap it.

If you didn’t manage to take part in destroying siege or killing a guard/player you got decay in 0-10 min before the changes as well as after, always depending on what you did just before going for the keep.

When you captured a camp to get sups before attacking the keep, there is no difference.

BTW I play in t1 EU.

mygirlparadise.7583:

Thank you ArenaNet for screwing over roamers.

I don’t see the issue with the decay timer. I don’t even see a difference from before the patch. I only roam, unless doing guild missions.

Last night I roamed for a few hours, and a few times I took a 6-10minute break, and was still in t6 participation. It may be based off what you were doing during the current skirmish? In the first half hour of roaming last night I waited the full duration (possibly longer, as I lost a fight trying to capture it) of a shrine’s RI in DBL, and only right after RI came off, did my participation go red and slowly decay. I was mid-t4 participation at that point.

There were multiple points throughout the night where I was traveling and did not do anything that would grant participation for a few minutes at a time, decay never set in during these times. I think there are other factors that are playing into the decay timer here, since I can say with absolute certainty that it did not start at 30s for me.

Carighan.6758:

Isn’t a camp only 2 minutes?

No, it’s 10 minutes.

Why are people cranky about the system when they’ve not read the description of the system or tested it themselves?

Sly.9518:

This actively forces players to be participating in the gamemode. And if you are worried about refreshing siege guess what while goin between objectives players can detour through a tower/keep and refresh since it doesn’t take more than 2 minutes to refresh siege in almost every objective. Again only Leechers are affected by this change

No. That’s what I thought when I read the patchnotes, and it’s totally not how it plays out ingame. Just traversing to the commander back after a wipe means you lost your participation again already, especially on DBL.

The problem is not so much that it cannot be worked around (don’t die, zerg zerg zerg, play it like EotM Karma Train, and you’re golden and will sit at T6 100% of the time getting maximum income), easy even. The problem is that it is the entirely wrong solution to an entirely unrelated issue.

Also, as someone else said, why do something so utterly complicated? :’(
Is there a list somewhere ingame telling you what tags you for participation how long? No.
Is there a buff on you showing how long you got to go in your participation clock? No.

How is a newcomer ever to understand this mess?

Why not just… I don’t know… cash out the rewards on leaving WvW? But in return you get an X minutes debuff preventing you from getting participation again? So you cannot gain extra rewards?

Or even simpler (from a player perspective), continue giving rewards after leaving, even if offline. That is to say, rewards just “tick down”, if you logged out and stay out you’ll have them on logging back in. But if you do log in early, you still got partial participation and only lost some of the items.

I’m going to keep complaining about this, until it’s altered.

1) Ruin = Stand mindlessly albeit alertly in a circle as your timer may or may not be counting down, take 30 secs to cap said circle get 1 min extend on timer and participation.

2) Sentry = Get marked, but kill sentry (a guard) get extend on timer, cap circle and get more extend as well or let someone else cap, who cares.

3) Shrine = Delete 4 Jr baddies and 1 Sr baddie get NO extend unless you cap square before a zerg of enemies comes and rains on your parade.

There is a fundamental difficulty level between #1 and #3 yet they give the same extend time of 1 min, whereas #2 is a two for one deal because a sentry entails killing a guard and a cap event.

It makes no difference if you cap a sentry circle after you’ve killed a sentry guard because you’ve already gotten timer extend for killing the guard and it really makes no difference if you get run over by a zerg while trying to cap the sentry circle if you killed the sentry guard.

If you get run over at a ruin mid cap it’s irritating especially if your timer is counting down, but cest la vie, if however you get run over at a shrine after deleting npc opposition and waiting for cap you get nothing.

Not to mention if you’re fighting to hold back a decay timer and you successfully take a shrine, you’ll most likely loose a percentage of participation for PARTICIPATING!

Either make the extend timer different between shrines and ruins or halt the timer once you’ve killed the vet ember/element/static dude

Carighan.6758:

Sly.9518:

This actively forces players to be participating in the gamemode. And if you are worried about refreshing siege guess what while goin between objectives players can detour through a tower/keep and refresh since it doesn’t take more than 2 minutes to refresh siege in almost every objective. Again only Leechers are affected by this change

No. That’s what I thought when I read the patchnotes, and it’s totally not how it plays out ingame. Just traversing to the commander back after a wipe means you lost your participation again already, especially on DBL.

The problem is not so much that it cannot be worked around (don’t die, zerg zerg zerg, play it like EotM Karma Train, and you’re golden and will sit at T6 100% of the time getting maximum income), easy even. The problem is that it is the entirely wrong solution to an entirely unrelated issue.

Also, as someone else said, why do something so utterly complicated? :’(
Is there a list somewhere ingame telling you what tags you for participation how long? No.
Is there a buff on you showing how long you got to go in your participation clock? No.

How is a newcomer ever to understand this mess?

Why not just… I don’t know… cash out the rewards on leaving WvW? But in return you get an X minutes debuff preventing you from getting participation again? So you cannot gain extra rewards?

Or even simpler (from a player perspective), continue giving rewards after leaving, even if offline. That is to say, rewards just “tick down”, if you logged out and stay out you’ll have them on logging back in. But if you do log in early, you still got partial participation and only lost some of the items.

Every map has Objectives that can be used to maintain Participation along every main avenue of traversing the map, even repairing any damaged walls along the way helps maintain Participation, this is no t debatable it is a fact with over 10 ways of maintaining Participation easily. Zeroing is not necessary to keep up Participation.

And again another player wanting to get rewards for not playing WvW lol wanting rewards while logged out even……

I will test again tonight. But yesterday, my main was starting to decay within an incredibly short time. My primary alt behaved very differently…

The difference was a second patch between the two.

My initial reaction was based on the behavior I saw on my main account, which was not at all as described. So if that’s a bug that’s been fixed, fabulous. If it’s still behaving the way it was yesterday, I’ll open a support ticket.

Carighan.6758:

Also, as someone else said, why do something so utterly complicated? :’(

Because getting rewards with little effort was already a problem before pips were implemented and pips made it worse. You should not be able to get rewards at the speed you could for killing a single veteran every 10 minutes.

Carighan.6758:

Is there a list somewhere ingame telling you what tags you for participation how long? No.
Is there a buff on you showing how long you got to go in your participation clock? No.

Does there need to be?
If a player wants more details, they can google them or test for themselves.
If they don’t, they can just understand that “kill stuff = good”.

Carighan.6758:

How is a newcomer ever to understand this mess?

The same way anyone else is to understand the system. It’s not hard. You have the list of things which set your participation decay period. If your standing decay period is lower than the time of the thing you just did, it gets moved up to that time. Simple.

HazyDaisy.4107:

I’m going to keep complaining about this, until it’s altered.

1) Ruin = Stand mindlessly albeit alertly in a circle as your timer may or may not be counting down, take 30 secs to cap said circle get 1 min extend on timer and participation.

2) Sentry = Get marked, but kill sentry (a guard) get extend on timer, cap circle and get more extend as well or let someone else cap, who cares.

3) Shrine = Delete 4 Jr baddies and 1 Sr baddie get NO extend unless you cap square before a zerg of enemies comes and rains on your parade.

There is a fundamental difficulty level between #1 and #3 yet they give the same extend time of 1 min, whereas #2 is a two for one deal because a sentry entails killing a guard and a cap event.

It makes no difference if you cap a sentry circle after you’ve killed a sentry guard because you’ve already gotten timer extend for killing the guard and it really makes no difference if you get run over by a zerg while trying to cap the sentry circle if you killed the sentry guard.

If you get run over at a ruin mid cap it’s irritating especially if your timer is counting down, but cest la vie, if however you get run over at a shrine after deleting npc opposition and waiting for cap you get nothing.

Not to mention if you’re fighting to hold back a decay timer and you successfully take a shrine, you’ll most likely loose a percentage of participation for PARTICIPATING!

Either make the extend timer different between shrines and ruins or halt the timer once you’ve killed the vet ember/element/static dude

The two for 1 deal for sentries, is probably there for zergs. When you’re in the middle or back of a zerg that rushes up to a sentry location on the way to a camp, the sentry is often dead before you can get a shot off, so this helps the late comers still get credit for capturing.

Lionwait.4815:

Nidome.1365:

Currently when solo scouting your home border the following often takes place:
1) You see an orange dot at a sentry near a camp.
2) You move to defend the camp.
3) The enemy runs away.
4) You recap sentry to keep participation
5) 2-10 mins later back to step (1)

Except under the new system step 4 no longer resets your participation to full

Finely…… Some one with a brain posted. I was thinking I would have to explain it. I love these changes because people can’t abuse this reward system in this way anymore. If it was me I would go a step further by saying capturing a sentry should give 3 minutes not 5.

koffein.9374:

Is I dont understand your statement about siege damage wall and it means that using siege against walls/doors isnt enough. Well, I think we can easily agree here it is NOT afking, that using siege is actually active play …

I will make you understand. It is quite simple. It does count for active play but only to a point. Making those who just afk trebing SMC all day long with a script rewardless. Anet has just fixed quite a lot of things that have been being abused in this game for year now. The changes they have made is nothing short then brilliant.

ok, explain me this then: " Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute"

slashlizardy.9167:

HazyDaisy.4107:

I’m going to keep complaining about this, until it’s altered.

1) Ruin = Stand mindlessly albeit alertly in a circle as your timer may or may not be counting down, take 30 secs to cap said circle get 1 min extend on timer and participation.

2) Sentry = Get marked, but kill sentry (a guard) get extend on timer, cap circle and get more extend as well or let someone else cap, who cares.

3) Shrine = Delete 4 Jr baddies and 1 Sr baddie get NO extend unless you cap square before a zerg of enemies comes and rains on your parade.

There is a fundamental difficulty level between #1 and #3 yet they give the same extend time of 1 min, whereas #2 is a two for one deal because a sentry entails killing a guard and a cap event.

It makes no difference if you cap a sentry circle after you’ve killed a sentry guard because you’ve already gotten timer extend for killing the guard and it really makes no difference if you get run over by a zerg while trying to cap the sentry circle if you killed the sentry guard.

If you get run over at a ruin mid cap it’s irritating especially if your timer is counting down, but cest la vie, if however you get run over at a shrine after deleting npc opposition and waiting for cap you get nothing.

Not to mention if you’re fighting to hold back a decay timer and you successfully take a shrine, you’ll most likely loose a percentage of participation for PARTICIPATING!

Either make the extend timer different between shrines and ruins or halt the timer once you’ve killed the vet ember/element/static dude

The two for 1 deal for sentries, is probably there for zergs. When you’re in the middle or back of a zerg that rushes up to a sentry location on the way to a camp, the sentry is often dead before you can get a shot off, so this helps the late comers still get credit for capturing.

Not really the point I was making, but yes, it makes sense and I’m not arguing about sentries, I’m arguing about shrines and the difference between them and the other 2 events.

I zerg and I solo roam and I never had any problem with decay so far.

The way I understand this, flipping a mere camp gives you 20 minutes (capture = 10 min. + 5 guards (2 min ea.)). Flipping a sentry = 7 min (capture = 5 min + guard = 2 min).

You will also likely kill a few players along the way as well as accidentally participate in plenty of ongoing events you had no intention of attending because you damaged stuff or killed tower/keep npcs without capturing but get participation when capture happens.

Another example of bad Anet design. I won’t be playing wvw, this is a double down of how they want this game turned into a mindless grind with sparse rewards that are given out after 2 years of grind. GGWP.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I zerg and I solo roam and I never had any problem with decay so far.

The way I understand this, flipping a mere camp gives you 20 minutes (capture = 10 min. + 5 guards (2 min ea.)). Flipping a sentry = 7 min (capture = 5 min + guard = 2 min).

You will also likely kill a few players along the way as well as accidentally participate in plenty of ongoing events you had no intention of attending because you damaged stuff or killed tower/keep npcs without capturing but get participation when capture happens.

Going by the dev comment the system is not additive and basically a maximum of 10 mins, you only get to the highest of either your current decay timer or the event timer. So kill a camp guard would bump your timer to 2 mins, you take the time to kill another guard and say your timer is now 1:50, when you kill the guard it goes back to 2 mins, when you cap the camp after it bumps it to 10 mins.

McKenna

For example when you take an objective, it gives you 10 minutes before your participation will start to decay; then if you kill a guard it will only reset to 2 minutes if you have less than 2 minutes left otherwise it won’t affect the timer.

Can we please get some people who want to have fun in WvW to make changes to it instead of these dorks breaking the game more? It’s like you don’t even want fun to be a part of WvW, and it looks to me like they want to discourage anyone trying to get into it more. Quit sucking the fun out of this game before you force everyone except the few elitists who refuse to quit, from leaving also.

“You’re out of your element Donny!”