Guild Wars 2

instead of the whole thing being based on time, maybe you can work it so certain things gain you pips, and certain things gain you more pips than others?

perhaps things like killing players and using supply are counted differently because they are so common it would be hard to quantify properly. maybe you don’t count them at all, idk.

it would be pretty interesting though to see the effect it would have on people if kills got pips. maybe 10 kills = 1 pip. would it draw more people to wvw? would fights take center stage as opposed to siege wars? would people abandon all supply entirely and go on a blood crazed pip frenzy of extreme carnage? maybe…

Sviel.7493:

My activity was mainly defense events, flipping sentries and killing enemy roamers/zerglings. Of course, there could still be an issue with participation, but I have yet to find it.

Its easy to find it.

What would you have gotten participation from if your side held all the sentries, no one contested anything and there where no roamers or zerglings around?

WvW is gonna be dull when all you do is watch paint dry. Literally, you watch the color of a monument go white so you can cap it again. Or you escort a dolly, but that take longer than the decay timer. Great.

If there was no activity on the map, I would not expect to be rewarded for activity. You can argue that there should be meaningful activities to do at such times, as I have in the past, but they do not exist at this moment.

That’s a rather intense population problem and, while serious, is a totally different issue from participation. Still not a reason to expect rewards for “watching paint dry.”

Sviel.7493:

If there was no activity on the map, I would not expect to be rewarded for activity. You can argue that there should be meaningful activities to do at such times, as I have in the past, but they do not exist at this moment.

That’s a rather intense population problem and, while serious, is a totally different issue from participation. Still not a reason to expect rewards for “watching paint dry.”

This would imply that scouting is a meaningless activity that should get zero rewards.

Sly.9518:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Monk Tank.5897:

It heavily taxes the game mode. I thought you finally gave WvW some love and then you pull this crap.
Sorry I cant follow your Zerg, I have to go tag something, don’t care what it is or where it is, I’m losing my participation.
Change the AFK timer so if your not constantly playing you get logged out. Don’t punish 98% of the playerbase to combat 2% that isn’t playing as intended.

what is amusing is it was the dedicated wvwers that were asking for this change. They complained about not being able to get into full maps due to afk pip farmers. When I saw the problem a few weeks ago due to the new skirmish system, I said to a few other friends that “They won’t be able to fix this problem, unless they change how pips are awarded.” Well here is there solution, and it looks like I was right.

Guess what it’s a great change, all the afkers are punished active players easily maintain the max participation which only takes 10 to 20 minutes of activity to do.

All I am seeing is leechers complaining, since it’s not hard to maintain Participation in between objectives.

You can’t even go to the bathroom IRL for 5 min without losing participation lol, if you siege a keep and wipe, you lose participation, if commanders wait for zerg to stack up you lose participation, if you scout or roam you lose participation, if you use siege in some cases you lose participation…

Lionwait.4815:

koffein.9374:

ok, explain me this then: " Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute"

If you are the only one defending a tower vs a blob and you built a arrow cart. The chances of you killing a enemy is slim to none. If you dont kill any one then you dont get object defense completed. So Anet made it so when you are on a arrow cart just doing dmg to a player, you wont lose participation as fast but you are slowing down the enemy’s so ally’s can come defend and help you kill a enemy there for giving you participation.

Sorry but you didnt read previous chat about that, so you answering me something else …

I was on the bandwagon against this change in the beginning. Over the last day and a bit I’ve been in WvW quite a bit and it’s very easy to keep the participation up and not have to worry about it winding down unless I wind up standing around for 5 minutes or more. 10 minutes depending on what I killed last.

The point of this, I believe, is to keep things moving and it definitely does that. The decay timer isn’t a big issue. Even roaming I can get up to T6 and stay there easily enough.

Tbh the only change I noticed is gaining participation is slower…
I joined my commander today and we flipped a keep, a tower and 2 camps, a sentry and killed a couple enemies. At the end of all that I was still T5 participation.

As for the decay, I don’t even notice it. It’s a good chance to force people off afk farming… there is always something to do…

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sly.9518:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Monk Tank.5897:

It heavily taxes the game mode. I thought you finally gave WvW some love and then you pull this crap.
Sorry I cant follow your Zerg, I have to go tag something, don’t care what it is or where it is, I’m losing my participation.
Change the AFK timer so if your not constantly playing you get logged out. Don’t punish 98% of the playerbase to combat 2% that isn’t playing as intended.

what is amusing is it was the dedicated wvwers that were asking for this change. They complained about not being able to get into full maps due to afk pip farmers. When I saw the problem a few weeks ago due to the new skirmish system, I said to a few other friends that “They won’t be able to fix this problem, unless they change how pips are awarded.” Well here is there solution, and it looks like I was right.

Guess what it’s a great change, all the afkers are punished active players easily maintain the max participation which only takes 10 to 20 minutes of activity to do.

All I am seeing is leechers complaining, since it’s not hard to maintain Participation in between objectives.

You can’t even go to the bathroom IRL for 5 min without losing participation lol, if you siege a keep and wipe, you lose participation, if commanders wait for zerg to stack up you lose participation, if you scout or roam you lose participation, if you use siege in some cases you lose participation…

I don’t lose participation at all when solo roaming, don’t make false statements, it isn’t hard to flip a camp or sentry to maintain participation, or to kill a player. made cups of tea and come back and not had participation decay. You’re clearly doing something wrong, or just putting the minimal effort into stuff, jumpin, i don’t even care about these rewards, but i sure do notice them filling up my bags with stuff i do not want, as well as adding screen clutter with those awful little chests that hover.

FYI i only really play thief, on glass power build, before you argue that certain builds aren’t suited to roaming.

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

I don’t like the necessity of such a patch, nor is it perfect, but how can you say the patch discourage defending? I mean, you get 10 min on decay timer for defending.

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

Hate to have to say this but for the most part I agree with that statement to a degree. It’s a lot more about PIP farming now than it is “defending and fighting for our land”.

Last night I saw a lot off callouts for help that went unresponded for the longest time and even someone getting picked on for calling for help and asking if anyone was going to come… The other folks were busy taking other objects and as we know… yes it’s our “garri” but that too can be flipped back for pips… and so on. :P

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

I don’t like the necessity of such a patch, nor is it perfect, but how can you say the patch discourage defending? I mean, you get 10 min on decay timer for defending.

Once you have successfully defended. I’m not sure what constitutes defense though. Is it by just being IN the object until the contested timer ends and restarts? Or is it actually fighting people attacking? Not sure.

Who has the time to Defend now? You are going to lose your participation.

Monk Tank.5897:

Who has the time to Defend now? You are going to lose your participation.

If you kill someone (get 10 min) or repair a wall/door (get 5 min), you get event completion for defense (get 10 min) and you don’t lose participation or just hit enemy siege (1 min) in between or just destroy enemy siege (5 min) as well. It’s actually one of the better ways to get participation.

That being said, all the time in between scouting for that defense to happen is effectively -0- unless you are in a squad/given participation credit by squad leader if you stay within the tower/keep/camp. But this same issue really hasn’t changed with this update. That’s why you don’t see scouts in towers that are T3 and basically never attacked (covered by Watchtower anyway) except for the occasion siege refresh when needed.

However, what this update does do is two things:

1. Mobility classes win (especially roamers). If it takes too long to go to objectives, you need to run a mobility class.

2. It discourages PUG commanding hitting T3 objectives that are even somewhat defended (sieged) unless fully zerg blob. It takes too long and the only few getting credit after the initial 2 minute Veteran Guard kill tagging (remember don’t created OJ swords) is the people using the seige. Non-PUG commanders are usually hitting T3 objectives to lure in the response…that’s different.

Note, I’m not saying make T3 easier to take. More objectively, if siege is being used near you that is giving participation credit to one person, then every ally around you should also be getting participation credit.

I came to a conclusion where I don’t want to getting mad with this pips and all reward system, counting time of farming and other things. I mean, Pips and reward means getting “cool” Armour,Weapon,Legendary Backpacks…. but they are only skins and they don’t deprive my gameplay, my “relaxing” time to destroy an enemy zerg, conquest a keep… So why complain all the time for skins?! Maybe it’s a semplistic point of view but I really think we have to just play, because at the end in less then some days you can get a good exotic armor/weapon and play with no effort at a very good level. Anyway remember that istant gratifications are no good in general; working on these is the real gratification in my point of view, but unfortunately our generation is not used to it…

Just my 2 cents.

Bridget Morrigan.1752:

I played this system last night for several hours on a mostly dead map because of the login issues, and this is what I found.

• It is not that hard to get and maintain participation on a dead map, but if you encounter even small groups of enemies that kill you before you can do much, especially when you have to run a long way to find an objective you don’t own, you’ll decay in spite of being actively playing. If this system is designed to encourage participation rather than winning, it is missing the mark.

• The system encourages people to make dumb decisions, like killing an enemy NPC rather than focusing on objectives.

• Any prolonged siege is going to be hard on the members of the zerg. There will be pressure to disobey commanders in order to keep participation up.

• The timer for escorting yaks should at least equal the time it takes to escort the slowest yak on the longest path.

• Most importantly, if this was designed to reduce people afk-ing at spawn to run down their decay timer, it doesn’t work. When I got done playing at T6, I still had a long time to sit around and wait before that participation meter decayed enough for me to stop getting rewards. Maybe it was less time than before by one tick, I don’t know, but it hardly makes the issue go away.

This was my experience last night as well. On top of that, lag spikes and dc’s for half the zerg. At one point my participation fell low while the zerg was reorganizing, and I had to leave the zerg to go cap a close ruin. the lag then spiked up again, and instead of watching the ruin capture bar increase I was watching my timer drop and start losing participation.

Don’t know what you guys doing to lose participation in a blink of an eye. I can keep it up just fine with my slackplay.

Offair.2563:

Don’t know what you guys doing to lose participation in a blink of an eye. I can keep it up just fine with my slackplay.

They are leeching and complaining they can’t afk for 10+ minutes before decay hits since they would have to flip a camp or kill an Enemy player.

The leechers just want the old system back so they can sit in Keep/spawn doing nothing.

Offair.2563:

Don’t know what you guys doing to lose participation in a blink of an eye. I can keep it up just fine with my slackplay.

I usually don’t have a problem, but last night there was alot of connection issues and lag, and I wasn’t getting credit for most activities between 10:00pm est and 10:45. I had built up my participation from tier 6 and at one point it dropped to tier 2.

Same here. I usually roam, and I didn’t have all that much trouble. Yeah there’s a bit of decay here and there but not near significant enough to complain about.

Maybe it’s because I don’t tie myself to one spot on the map and decide to wait for someone with a tag on his head before capturing something.

Sly.9518:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Monk Tank.5897:

It heavily taxes the game mode. I thought you finally gave WvW some love and then you pull this crap.
Sorry I cant follow your Zerg, I have to go tag something, don’t care what it is or where it is, I’m losing my participation.
Change the AFK timer so if your not constantly playing you get logged out. Don’t punish 98% of the playerbase to combat 2% that isn’t playing as intended.

what is amusing is it was the dedicated wvwers that were asking for this change. They complained about not being able to get into full maps due to afk pip farmers. When I saw the problem a few weeks ago due to the new skirmish system, I said to a few other friends that “They won’t be able to fix this problem, unless they change how pips are awarded.” Well here is there solution, and it looks like I was right.

Guess what it’s a great change, all the afkers are punished active players easily maintain the max participation which only takes 10 to 20 minutes of activity to do.

All I am seeing is leechers complaining, since it’s not hard to maintain Participation in between objectives.

Well, you have your opinion, and I have mine. What i see in this thread are the ‘sheep’ that follow the zerg around pressing ‘1’) all liking this change, as the changes promote non stop zerging. The majority of the folks that are against this change are the roamers. Leechers, to me, are the sheep that wont step outside the spawn area unless they had their 50-man zerg to hide in.

Dawdler.8521:

Sviel.7493:

If there was no activity on the map, I would not expect to be rewarded for activity. You can argue that there should be meaningful activities to do at such times, as I have in the past, but they do not exist at this moment.

That’s a rather intense population problem and, while serious, is a totally different issue from participation. Still not a reason to expect rewards for “watching paint dry.”

This would imply that scouting is a meaningless activity that should get zero rewards.

If you think scouting is watching paint dry, you’re really bad at it. That said, as I have suggested in the past, I do think that a few participation-generating abilities that do not require enemies present (but that attract enemies) would be good for the game.

However, since it is impossible to distinguish between a random AFK guy and a stationary scout, I do not expect the latter to receive rewards. Thankfully, this is only an issue if 2 servers completely abandon a whole map at the same time…which is unlikely.

mulzi.8273:

Sly.9518:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Monk Tank.5897:

It heavily taxes the game mode. I thought you finally gave WvW some love and then you pull this crap.
Sorry I cant follow your Zerg, I have to go tag something, don’t care what it is or where it is, I’m losing my participation.
Change the AFK timer so if your not constantly playing you get logged out. Don’t punish 98% of the playerbase to combat 2% that isn’t playing as intended.

what is amusing is it was the dedicated wvwers that were asking for this change. They complained about not being able to get into full maps due to afk pip farmers. When I saw the problem a few weeks ago due to the new skirmish system, I said to a few other friends that “They won’t be able to fix this problem, unless they change how pips are awarded.” Well here is there solution, and it looks like I was right.

Guess what it’s a great change, all the afkers are punished active players easily maintain the max participation which only takes 10 to 20 minutes of activity to do.

All I am seeing is leechers complaining, since it’s not hard to maintain Participation in between objectives.

Well, you have your opinion, and I have mine. What i see in this thread are the ‘sheep’ that follow the zerg around pressing ‘1’) all liking this change, as the changes promote non stop zerging. The majority of the folks that are against this change are the roamers. Leechers, to me, are the sheep that wont step outside the spawn area unless they had their 50-man zerg to hide in.

Funny you say that look at my post history I mainly play thief (alt Power Rev and FA Ele) solo Roaming I love the change it promotes active play vs sitting in keep/spawn afk leeching till decay hits.

I have had zero issues with keeping max participation while solo Roaming.

All I see are leechers complaining that they can’t sit afk any more.

It might be better for everyone, anet included, if those of you that are having problems with the decay timer would also mention server, time and map they play on.

It’s funny, thiefs and rangers have little problem keeping up participation- not surprising when they go around in squads of 4 looking for easy targets= 10 minutes. Run into a problem- whoosh they are out of range and gone, sorry if you needed a fight to get credit before your timer ran out.

People who don’t play cheese mobility classes struggle to reach objectives before the timer starts counting down- especially on quieter maps where the only available camp might be one at the bottom of the map that is flipped before you get there, so 5 minutes on that one, or camps that are defended by entire squads on the enemies home borders.

Try playing outside of prime time on a less busy server not on a thief or ranger and then come back and tell me how you get on.

Baldrick.8967:

It’s funny, thiefs and rangers have little problem keeping up participation- not surprising when they go around in squads of 4 looking for easy targets= 10 minutes. Run into a problem- whoosh they are out of range and gone, sorry if you needed a fight to get credit before your timer ran out.

People who don’t play cheese mobility classes struggle to reach objectives before the timer starts counting down- especially on quieter maps where the only available camp might be one at the bottom of the map that is flipped before you get there, so 5 minutes on that one, or camps that are defended by entire squads on the enemies home borders.

Try playing outside of prime time on a less busy server not on a thief or ranger and then come back and tell me how you get on.

Too bad any guards even on a flipped camp give Participation but hey it’s hard to know mechanics especially when Devs state what each kill/Objective gives.

And again playing on Thief, Rev and FA Ele I have no issues keeping max participation because you know actual solo Roaming means constantly moving and getting objectives/kills which makes Participation almost never decay.

Only leechers have issues because they want to afk after any “Participation” they do.

I could see an argument for granting greater decay time on dolyak escorts or killing dolyaks as that requires being active and vulnerable to complete but I wouldn’t give a full 10mins for that.

I guess they could include a new category “in combat with enemy server player or lord” which will prevent participation loss while in combat with player/lord and grant 5 to 10mins decay if you are killed and/or you break combat. That will bring up a few more problems but should at least encourage more pvp encounters to keep up participation.

I don’t really want to see them give additional time for easily exploitable mechanics like killing guards and rather they encourage pvp.

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Balthazzarr.1349:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

dragon.8071:

Simply put. The patch turned this wvw completely into EOTM 2.0. Welcome back EOTM. Don’t defend, don’t roam without a large group, flip everything and let it get flip so you can flip it back for participation. Bad update. Bad.

Time to do <alt> F4 and uninstall if wvw rewards is your game mode.

I don’t like the necessity of such a patch, nor is it perfect, but how can you say the patch discourage defending? I mean, you get 10 min on decay timer for defending.

Once you have successfully defended. I’m not sure what constitutes defense though. Is it by just being IN the object until the contested timer ends and restarts? Or is it actually fighting people attacking? Not sure.

I think that if you received the reward for the defence event, you qualify. Merely being inside the objective won’t be enough.

Jana.6831:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The reset times are as follows:
• Killing a Player – 10 minutes
• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Destroying a fortification – 5 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
• Killing or reviving a merc npc – 1 minute
• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute
• Destroying Siege – 5 minute
• Killing a Veteran Creature – 5 minutes

These happen on event completion:
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Completing a Merc Event – 5 minutes
• Completing a Defend Event – 10 minutes
• Capturing an objective – 10 minutes
• Capturing a Ruin or Shrine – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes

I think this is pretty fair actually, minus the veteran creatures as they were useless anyway and no one ever got what purpose they have. 5 mins is a bit much in comparison what other stuff gives.
But yes, I can understand that the scenario Deihnyx was talking about can cause problems. But I’m not so sure it didn’t before.

It’s not cumulative. It just resets. Killed one guard = 2 minutes. Killed 2 guards = 2 minutes from when the last one died. Didn’t run to the camp in time from the tower AND kill at least one more guard there = you’re back to zero. You can’t solo cata wall in time in this case to be able to extend the participation. Basically needs critical mass to be able to reliably keep the participation. Just your regular rat race for solo/very small groups

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

I think some people are confused and think that whenever you do something that gives participation it adds to the decay, which has not been and is not the case. For example when you take an objective, it gives you 10 minutes before your participation will start to decay; then if you kill a guard it will only reset to 2 minutes if you have less than 2 minutes left otherwise it won’t affect the timer. This is how it has always worked; the only thing we have changed is the reset time for each action.

The reset times are as follows:
• Killing a Player – 10 minutes
• Killing a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Destroying a fortification – 5 minutes
• Killing a Guard – 2 minutes
• Killing a Lord – 5 minutes
• Killing or reviving a merc npc – 1 minute
• Repairing – 5 minutes
• Siege Damage Wall/Gate/Player – 1 minute
• Destroying Siege – 5 minute
• Killing a Veteran Creature – 5 minutes

These happen on event completion:
• Defending a Caravan – 2 minutes
• Completing a Merc Event – 5 minutes
• Completing a Defend Event – 10 minutes
• Capturing an objective – 10 minutes
• Capturing a Ruin or Shrine – 2 minutes
• Capturing a Sentry – 5 minutes

It is still possible that we will tweak these numbers going forward.

This is actually pretty great. I was initially unhappy on the ‘1m reset’ people were posting about in this forum, but having actually played, it seems fine. I haven’t lost participation when actively playing.

One thing I would add is: “dying in combat with another player” – maybe 5m?. I know it’s counterintuitive to reward dying vs getting kills, but I think it will help roamers keep participation up if they lose a fight, and also incentivize other players to fight them (rather than running back and hiding in a tower or w/e).

I roam almost exclusively. Last night I had a chance to play for a bit for the first time since the patch. I ran around capturing camps, killing sentries, and occasionally killing, or being killed by, players.

I didnt play any differently than I normally would and didnt see a difference. For a while I kept running into gank squads, or just solo players more skilled than I, which killed me before I could score a kill of my own. Even with having to respawn and run back out to find an objective I didnt see significant, if any, decay. By actively doing things I kept my particilation up without difficulty.

Okay, so there’s definitely a bigger issue at the desert borderlands as things are further apart. Not that hard but feels like a bother… particularly if there are enemies to slow you down (yea, I know, what?) .if you needed more reasons to not go there.

Sly.9518:

Only leechers have issues because they want to afk after any “Participation” they do.

No matter how many times you say it (literally in every post), you are only assuming what people do or why they are doing it. You are being prejudiced.

It was already established that not winning fights can lead to timer triggering even though you are participating. Winning is different than participation. Yes you won’t drop from T6 to T3 immediately and should have enough time to catch back provided this is not a dead map. It doesn’t change the fact that this is adding unnecessary constraint on people. Unnecessary because it doesn’t fix the real issues and contributes to nothing in improving the mode itself.

If you don’t agree, please comment on this: I was fighting a tower lord alone after destroying wall when I started to get timer. Is your answer for that “leech” to simply leave the tower just to flip a camp and come back?
Again, it is not because you are not impacted that it automatically means that everyone should not be impacted, or are automatically cheating if they claim they are impacted. It’s very short sighted to think that nerfing more and more ways of playing will magically fix everything and have only the great players come back. It would take some actual additions to the mode (dynamic events, weekend special, specific timed objective whatever) to save it from dying.
People wanting reward is a symptom, and that’s 100% on Anet. That’s literally the ONLY thing they added. Of course it was gonna bring players who like rewards. Now is it that terrible that you can’t play and enjoy your own game because of them? Really?

The irony is that you can still afk depending how you play, you can still watch youtube while following k-train. This patch haven’t fixed any of that. It’s simply making it worse for some legit players.
How is someone following ktrain and spawning 1 is more worthy and deserve better participation than scouting, dueling, capping towers in small group, hiding in seek as a mesmer to port a team, etc. I don’t know. But I definitely think you got it backward here if you think that’s just leeching.

But sure, feel free to think everyone’s trying to cheese everything.

Sly.9518:

Only leechers have issues because they want to afk after any “Participation” they do.

No matter how many times you say it (literally in every post), you are only assuming what people do or why they are doing it. You are being prejudiced.
There certainly are some leechers here and there but since we’re talking about cheesing things, what you are doing is cheesing your way out of any argumentation by basically calling everyone who doesn’t approve the change a leecher.
Not really convincing.

It was already established that not winning fights can lead to timer triggering even though you are participating. Winning is different than participation. Yes you won’t drop from T6 to T3 immediately and should have enough time to catch back provided this is not a dead map. It doesn’t change the fact that this is adding unnecessary constraint on people. Unnecessary because it doesn’t fix the real issues and contributes to nothing in improving the mode itself.

If you don’t agree, please comment on this: I was fighting a tower lord alone after destroying wall when I started to get timer. Is your answer for that “leech” to simply leave the tower just to flip a camp and come back?
Again, it is not because you are not impacted that it automatically means that everyone should not be impacted, or are automatically cheating if they claim they are impacted. It’s very short sighted to think that nerfing more and more ways of playing will magically fix everything and have only the great players come back. It would take some actual additions to the mode (dynamic events, weekend special, specific timed objective whatever) to save it from dying.
People wanting reward is a symptom, and that’s 100% on Anet. That’s literally the ONLY thing they added. Of course it was gonna bring players who like rewards. Now is it that terrible that you can’t play and enjoy your own game because of them? Really?

The irony is that you can still afk depending how you play, you can still watch youtube while following k-train. This patch haven’t fixed any of that. It’s simply making it worse for some legit players.
How is someone following ktrain and spawning 1 is more worthy and deserve better participation than scouting, dueling, capping towers in small group, hiding in seek as a mesmer to port a team, etc. I don’t know. But I definitely think you got it backward here if you think that’s just leeching.

But sure, feel free to think everyone’s trying to cheese everything.

Carighan.6758:

Sarrs.4831:

It’s really not hard at non-peak hours. Capture camps. If you can’t capture camps, you need to learn to play.

Isn’t a camp only 2 minutes?

No, a camp is an objective, therefore it’s 10 mins, like I said it’s a l2p issue. The first rule of L2p being… understand the system of the mode you are playing…

VaaCrow.3076:

jumping

Yep still plenty of time to CJ before decay

Deihnyx.6318:

Sly.9518:

Only leechers have issues because they want to afk after any “Participation” they do.

No matter how many times you say it (literally in every post), you are only assuming what people do or why they are doing it. You are being prejudiced.

It was already established that not winning fights can lead to timer triggering even though you are participating. Winning is different than participation. Yes you won’t drop from T6 to T3 immediately and should have enough time to catch back provided this is not a dead map. It doesn’t change the fact that this is adding unnecessary constraint on people. Unnecessary because it doesn’t fix the real issues and contributes to nothing in improving the mode itself.

If you don’t agree, please comment on this: I was fighting a tower lord alone after destroying wall when I started to get timer. Is your answer for that “leech” to simply leave the tower just to flip a camp and come back?
Again, it is not because you are not impacted that it automatically means that everyone should not be impacted, or are automatically cheating if they claim they are impacted. It’s very short sighted to think that nerfing more and more ways of playing will magically fix everything and have only the great players come back. It would take some actual additions to the mode (dynamic events, weekend special, specific timed objective whatever) to save it from dying.
People wanting reward is a symptom, and that’s 100% on Anet. That’s literally the ONLY thing they added. Of course it was gonna bring players who like rewards. Now is it that terrible that you can’t play and enjoy your own game because of them? Really?

The irony is that you can still afk depending how you play, you can still watch youtube while following k-train. This patch haven’t fixed any of that. It’s simply making it worse for some legit players.
How is someone following ktrain and spawning 1 is more worthy and deserve better participation than scouting, dueling, capping towers in small group, hiding in seek as a mesmer to port a team, etc. I don’t know. But I definitely think you got it backward here if you think that’s just leeching.

But sure, feel free to think everyone’s trying to cheese everything.

If you were truly taking that tower you would not have started decaying when you said you did, since damaging the walls(1 min per siege damage attack) and killing all the guards (approx 3-4 guards near lord, award 2 mins ea and respwan within 4-5 mins of death) around the lord reset the Participation decay timer, you know the mechanics explained by the Devs, you wouldn’t have been close to decaying. I know because while Roaming I take towers and have never decayed while taking a tower unless you don’t kill any of the guards which I doubt would be possible if you got the lord to 25% as you have claimed.

Just saying the facts don’t support your claim.

What most likely happened was going afk after respawning when the enemy player killed your character.

Again all this patch does is stop afk leechers.

It feels like the update also changed how fast you get participation. Not sure if that is a (intended) side effect of the adjusted timer reset values, but this part needs looking at.

I’m fine with the faster decay timer, as long as we can build up participation fast enough again. Right now, it’s too restrictive and rewards people for ktraining objectives too much.

Absolute worst change to WvW since Golem Week.

Needs a fix or you will see people leave WvW and the game in an chaotic fashion. Taking a camp, got killed by 5 people. I get zero credit for all the guards I killed. I am back at zero. You cannot roam, small groups lose participation if there is any resistance at all because you cannot complete the objective in time or get to another in time.

A year ago you were trying to get more people to do small groups in WvW, now your forcing people to zerg up to maximize this new participation.

For the love of Quaggens, set up a test server and invite some people to test this stuff before going live with it. Ask for community feedback and consider what people are telling you.

It may be your company but it’s my money and I won’t spend it on a game that becomes more work than my job.

Sly.9518:

If you were truly taking that tower you would not have started decaying when you said you did, since damaging the walls(1 min per siege damage attack) and killing all the guards (approx 3-4 guards near lord, award 2 mins ea and respwan within 4-5 mins of death) around the lord reset the Participation decay timer, you know the mechanics explained by the Devs, you wouldn’t have been close to decaying. I know because while Roaming I take towers and have never decayed while taking a tower unless you don’t kill any of the guards which I doubt would be possible if you got the lord to 25% as you have claimed.

Just saying the facts don’t support your claim.

What most likely happened was going afk after respawning when the enemy player killed your character.

Again all this patch does is stop afk leechers.

And once again assuming what others think or do.

-There is no guard near lord in the tower in desert BL. Guards are near the door, you don’t need to fight them if you’re going for wall. That’s something an experienced player should know.
-I got attacked around 25% by another player, as I said in a previous post.
- This other player fight lasted a few minutes running around, trying to avoid his pew pew, resulting in me loosing.
> Timer reset.

Ways to avoid it?
- Not go to lord and instead kill other stuff first.
- Get myself killed fast by the player in order to avoid decay.
That’s what the system your defending and calling people liar for is causing. Forcing us to take care of timer decay to adapt our gamestyle, even though there was no reason and even though it makes no sense in some situations.

No I did not go afk after that. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. It’s just baffling that it’s all you ever come up with to justify everything.
Can you just play your game and let others do the same?

Please add an identical decay for participation in PvE events!

Deihnyx.6318:

Sly.9518:

If you were truly taking that tower you would not have started decaying when you said you did, since damaging the walls(1 min per siege damage attack) and killing all the guards (approx 3-4 guards near lord, award 2 mins ea and respwan within 4-5 mins of death) around the lord reset the Participation decay timer, you know the mechanics explained by the Devs, you wouldn’t have been close to decaying. I know because while Roaming I take towers and have never decayed while taking a tower unless you don’t kill any of the guards which I doubt would be possible if you got the lord to 25% as you have claimed.

Just saying the facts don’t support your claim.

What most likely happened was going afk after respawning when the enemy player killed your character.

Again all this patch does is stop afk leechers.

And once again assuming what others think or do.

-There is no guard near lord in the tower in desert BL. Guards are near the door, you don’t need to fight them if you’re going for wall. That’s something an experienced player should know.
-I got attacked around 25% by another player, as I said in a previous post.
- This other player fight lasted a few minutes running around, trying to avoid his pew pew, resulting in me loosing.
> Timer reset.

Ways to avoid it?
- Not go to lord and instead kill other stuff first.
- Get myself killed fast by the player in order to avoid decay.
That’s what the system your defending and calling people liar for is causing. Forcing us to take care of timer decay to adapt our gamestyle, even though there was no reason and even though it makes no sense in some situations.

No I did not go afk after that. I don’t care if you don’t believe me. It’s just baffling that it’s all you ever come up with to justify everything.
Can you just play your game and let others do the same?

Sorry but even in Dbl there are guards on the way to Tower lords sooo yeah….

Again I almost exclusively solo roam and even when taking towers never have issues with decay even in dbl.

Every Objective with taking a tower give Participation which limits decay….

Lord is on the left, destructible wall on the right. Where do you see guards?

And yes, you get decay timer reset if you cap the tower only. But if you get lord to very low and a other players happens to come by and kill you, you get absolutely no participation.

^Assuming it takes you over 10m to kill the lord, yes.

Deihnyx.6318:

Lord is on the left, destructible wall on the right. Where do you see guards?

And yes, you get decay timer reset if you cap the tower only. But if you get lord to very low and a other players happens to come by and kill you, you get absolutely no participation.

You get decay reset for dealing any siege damage per hit on walls too. Oh noooo mechcanics, and you mean the guards that line the walls and are inside near those stairs? It’s not like you have to go out of your way and take 10 seconds to kill a guard.

There is no guard near those walls unless the tower has been tiered, and destroying the wall gives five minutes, not ten. So yeah, if you fight the lord for a bit and get killed I could see decay being an issue esp if air is contested and you have to run back from garri. Idk, I haven’t played desert bl since the patch . . .

I agree decay isn’t much of a problem for roamers. Every once in a while I’ll do something I shouldn’t just bc I’m worried about the decay timer, but maybe that impulse will go away after I’ve lived with it a while. If it doesn’t, that’s definitely a problem. If you’re actively playing, you shouldn’t have to be thinking about decay . . .

But this is seriously broken for scouts. The easy fix for that is to make escorting a yak give enough of a buff to the decay timer to allow you to run another yak . . .

Overall I don’t think this patch was a bad idea, but it doesn’t seem to have affected afkers much and it seems to have created a lot of grief for legitimate players, so Idk if it was worth it. I’d expect some tweaking the timers in the fairly near future, as they said they were open to that in the original post . . .

Additional feedback on this, again from a player who has never worried about participation or decay before…

Guild run last night. Many fights, much fun. Pulled back to spawn to adjust our comp at one point, because #mapblobthings.

People decided to take a quick bio break while some people were changing classes.

You guessed it. Decay started to hit some folks (including me).

This has literally never, since participation was introduced, been an issue before.

Yes, we were able to fix the situation quickly enough, but even so, something is definitely off about the way participation and decay work at the moment.

Gop.8713:

But this is seriously broken for scouts. The easy fix for that is to make escorting a yak give enough of a buff to the decay timer to allow you to run another yak . . .

Enough? Give it 10m.

No really, dolly escort events giving participation – which as far as I know they dont, not mentioned in the post listing the timers so PLEASE do correct me if I’m wrong – would pretty much solve the “scouting issue” as getting dollys into objectives is an important part of watching over it (and adds something to do around it).

Dollys is also a continous and steady activity, unlike capping an objective (once it’s capped, you cant exactly recap it if the enemy dont cap it) and a natural magnet for enemies, which leads to even more activity if they are escorted.

That is WvW.

Not giving bloody 5 minutes timer to killing a kittening kittened veteran creature no one gives a flying kitten about unless its veteran daily.

Sly.9518:

Deihnyx.6318:

Lord is on the left, destructible wall on the right. Where do you see guards?

And yes, you get decay timer reset if you cap the tower only. But if you get lord to very low and a other players happens to come by and kill you, you get absolutely no participation.

You get decay reset for dealing any siege damage per hit on walls too. Oh noooo mechcanics, and you mean the guards that line the walls and are inside near those stairs? It’s not like you have to go out of your way and take 10 seconds to kill a guard.

That’s just beside the point, that was just one example of a situation I faced where I got the timer while being ACTIVE, which you keep repeating cannot be true.

Before, as long as you were participating, you could actively play the way you wanted. Rushing lord has always been a thing. When you’re a blob you usually rush lord once the wall is down, you don’t have to kill everything when you’re alone either. Especially when you know that enemies are gonna come soon it makes sense to rush lord.
Now it changed from “You are a leecher” to “you don’t play well according to the timer”. Well. That’s dumb, sorry.

The point is that patch forces you to constantly pay attention to a timer and act accordingly. A good system should be completely invisible to players playing normally.

Let’s again remind the audience that this patch doesn’t prevent all forms of afking, but is putting pressure on legit players as well.