Guild Wars 2

Wouldn’t WvW be better without PPT/Scoreboard?

I think so, while I am sure the masses would disagree because it would “make it have no point”….I think that it has been MORE than proven that the “matchups/score/PPT” are all direct correlations to Population and Coverage.

Look at the current NA matchups, do you really think anyone other than T1 (NA) are playing for PPT? What you have is 7 other matches that are karma trains. I am telling you the scoreboard is useless, beyond measuring coverage gaps and populations.

At the end of the day almost everyone eventually (some take longer than others) comes to realize that watching the scoreboard, and equating it to anything other than a measure of population/coverage is pointless.

I mean the only thing that PPT is going to be useful for moving forward is declaring the “winners” of this league nonsense.

Im new…. wtf is PPT… in my world that means PowerPoint…

Soullesseal.2850:

Im new…. wtf is PPT… in my world that means PowerPoint…

Points per tick. The amount of points you earn.

ahhhhhhhhh! thanks!

Soullesseal.2850:

ahhhhhhhhh! thanks!

It is a great measure of population, not much of a measure of “score”.

It would mean something if Anet made steps to use that data to help to balance out the servers. Providing incentives to even out the population I think would be something everyone would enjoy and provide much better matchups. But hey reviewing data is something Anet does alot, its just how they act on it thats the problem….

now that they have added wxp and personal progression to wvw, yes it would be a perfect time to remove ppt and score board. make it more about the fight and less about your servers rank.

the problem is with leagues there would have to be some form of scoreing and even if it was not displayed someone would figure it out and dedicate a web site to it.

I am pleasantly surprised at the positive comments so far…I understand some people would feel like there is “no point” without keeping “score”…But the problem with that is there really is no point now, unless you are in T1.

The other 90% of WvW will never be balanced matchup wise, so if we could throw out the score then I personally think the game would be much better off.

Taking out the score from wvw not only makes the tier system would not work making it even more unbalanced as it already is.This also will change nothing, if you want to play without caring about score just don’t look at it simple as that. Plus it takes allot of the competitiveness out of wvw and the pride of knowing that you beat your enemies.
also your comment about population top three servers in eu are seafarers rest, vizunah square and piken square,Looking at their population seafarers is high , vizunah is very high and piken is medium this shows that its not just about the population.

If Anet intends to keep to their word of WvW being casual drop in and fight. Then scores are counter productive to that goal.

King Amadaeus.8619:

I am pleasantly surprised at the positive comments so far…I understand some people would feel like there is “no point” without keeping “score”…But the problem with that is there really is no point now, unless you are in T1…

Yeah well there are a lot of us who aren’t in T1, have been playing since launch, and can clearly see what you do as well.

vaughany.4256:

Taking out the score from wvw not only makes the tier system would not work making it even more unbalanced as it already is.This also will change nothing, if you want to play without caring about score just don’t look at it simple as that. Plus it takes allot of the competitiveness out of wvw and the pride of knowing that you beat your enemies.
also your comment about population top three servers in eu are seafarers rest, vizunah square and piken square,Looking at their population seafarers is high , vizunah is very high and piken is medium this shows that its not just about the population.

As far as breaking tiers, no. Take scoreboard away from players, it can still be tracked server side to keep server ranks in check.

Population is also much less or an issue on EU compared to NA. EU is more spread out. Rank is about coverage. Look at rank 1 EU compared to rank 6 rating difference. Now look at NA. Thanks.

All for removing the scoreboard.

I like the points but I don’t know that they cause more harm than good. It’s a dual edged sword since it can both motivate as well as crush a server’s morale. I love playing wvw for the fights and generally balance my time between small group roaming & large scale zerg v zerg battles. It’s a lot less fun when its small group v zerg around every corner but it means that you have to adjust your tactics. Accept that you aren’t going to always be able to play the same way, use the same strategy, and have the same experience every match. That would just get dull.

I’m pretty sure blowouts are by design now and to be expected since matchups have that element of randomization but at the same time I think there’s a problem when every matchup this week is a blowout. Sure, some of this weeks blowouts have to do with the Teq Boss but every sever “winning” this week is an average of 4-6 ranks higher than their opponents.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Wouldn’t WvW be better without PPT/Scoreboard?

I think so, while I am sure the masses would disagree because it would “make it have no point”….I think that it has been MORE than proven that the “matchups/score/PPT” are all direct correlations to Population and Coverage.

Look at the current NA matchups, do you really think anyone other than T1 (NA) are playing for PPT? What you have is 7 other matches that are karma trains. I am telling you the scoreboard is useless, beyond measuring coverage gaps and populations.

At the end of the day almost everyone eventually (some take longer than others) comes to realize that watching the scoreboard, and equating it to anything other than a measure of population/coverage is pointless.

I mean the only thing that PPT is going to be useful for moving forward is declaring the “winners” of this league nonsense.

I want some sort of metric to judge my server’s overall performance in a week versus another server, because unlike a lot of player i don’t frame everything within my own personal experiences. i want a score because it reflects the efforts of my server MY TEAM.

You mean like a few other metrics:

KDR
Keeps – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Towers – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Camps – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Yaks – number of yaks successfully made it to an objective
Supply / upgrades – amount of supply burnt on upgrades (maybe only successful)
Hours of bloodlust held

All of the above basically coming up as an end of round score card like in FPS / RTS end round screens. Or – an active one which updates regularly.

I support this idea. But I still like ppt as a measure of how well a server is doing right now to the player who wants to know if they should help in WvW or do something different.

Agree with op. The blowouts seriously crush my motivation to play. Just give me something else to play for. Reward/pay me something to defend a tower/keep, even if my server has no chance of winning on ppt.

WvW was always supposed to be a contest based on strategy-based open world warfare to capture and control territory … it wasn’t ever supposed to be simply another form of head-bashing PvP. Just because sPvP and tPvP have been epic failures doesn’t mean that WvW should take their place. The problem is that WvW has been horribly mismanaged by ANet, and the points tally wouldn’t be meaningless if the game design for WvW actually supported and encouraged the style of play it was intended to. Instead of what we were promised, we’ve gotten predominantly mismatched events with crippling deficiencies (bugs, hacks, lag), kittenizing distortions (bloodlust, siege mastery), and a total lack of updated content.

I can understand why people think the score is meaningless because quite honestly it is, but where we’re at is like turning off the scoreboard at a football game and just having both teams run around tackling each other for their own amusement.

Cactus.2710:

I can understand why people think the score is meaningless because quite honestly it is, but where we’re at is like turning off the scoreboard at a football game and just having both teams run around tackling each other for their own amusement.

If nobody cares about the score at a football match, then sure, that analogy works, but people actually are very interested in knowing whose team is winning. Scoring in football is fundamentally tied to skill and ability.

Scoring in WvW?… Eh, not so much.

People still watch the score. Even us in TC have watched the scoreboard all the way since we were a low tier.

To enjoy WVW, especially if your server isn’t doing well, is best to not look at PPT. Thus, if you take away ppt, wvw will be more fun.

However, only those in the top 3 servers who will constantly check their ppt because it is what they’re fighting for.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

You mean like a few other metrics:

KDR
Keeps – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Towers – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Camps – hours kept, times defended, times lost
Yaks – number of yaks successfully made it to an objective
Supply / upgrades – amount of supply burnt on upgrades (maybe only successful)
Hours of bloodlust held

All of the above basically coming up as an end of round score card like in FPS / RTS end round screens. Or – an active one which updates regularly.

I support this idea. But I still like ppt as a measure of how well a server is doing right now to the player who wants to know if they should help in WvW or do something different.

That list above plus the part of the current Scoreboard that shows what is held by each Server would be all that is needed. Add in rewards for Successful Defenses.

Imagine it:

• People only taking Camps when they need Supply (or to deny the enemy) and not for silly points.
• People judging their successes based on what they accomplished during their play session and not what some score is.
• Coverage goes from being crucial for “success” to just whether or not you can find people to play with (or against) at any given time.

Agreed. I could care less about the score, what tier we’re in, or anything else. I just want fun, intense fights and on my server, these are getting as rare as exotic drops nowadays. All we do is run around following clueless “commanders” and knocking doors down. If we go up against a superior server, no one bothers to show. No one wants to incur idiotic death penalties (another bar to active participation in WvW that needs to go to attract PVE’ers) which is why people run rather than fight to the death.

The other night a commander tagged up and formed a small roaming group and we finally got to have some open-field fights with like-minded opponents. It was a blast.

The so-called “real commander” (PVDoor zergmeister) and his obnoxious minions gave us no end of grief for “accomplishing nothing” as if we should apologize for having fun. Did I mention we are like 100,000 points ahead and maybe it might be nice to allow our insanely outnumbered opponents to cap some stuff from time to time while we fight balanced groups in the fields? I’m fed up with the whole “we have to always win” mentality which is more about the commanders’ egos than fun for the rest of us.

ZOMG they just took a tower!!!!!! Everybody get to the WP and follow the commander!!!!

Who gives a baby cat.

Sarrs.4831:

Cactus.2710:

I can understand why people think the score is meaningless because quite honestly it is, but where we’re at is like turning off the scoreboard at a football game and just having both teams run around tackling each other for their own amusement.

If nobody cares about the score at a football match, then sure, that analogy works, but people actually are very interested in knowing whose team is winning. Scoring in football is fundamentally tied to skill and ability.

Scoring in WvW?… Eh, not so much.

Football is also 11 vs 11, whilst WvW can sometimes be 111 vs 11.

Would football be interesting if there were 22 guys on one team and 5 on the other? Would you feel like the score mattered? Both answers would likely be no, at least for me they would.

point earned by 60 men zerg cant be same as point earned by 4 men group.

vaughany.4256:

Taking out the score from wvw not only makes the tier system would not work making it even more unbalanced as it already is.This also will change nothing, if you want to play without caring about score just don’t look at it simple as that. Plus it takes allot of the competitiveness out of wvw and the pride of knowing that you beat your enemies.
also your comment about population top three servers in eu are seafarers rest, vizunah square and piken square,Looking at their population seafarers is high , vizunah is very high and piken is medium this shows that its not just about the population.

Thats total server pop and not the pop that logs into wvw so vizunah has a decent amount that log into wvw they have far more PvE types, Piken is mostly a wvw server and sea farers is some where in the middle

Cuchullain.3104:

The other night a commander tagged up and formed a small roaming group and we finally got to have some open-field fights with like-minded opponents. It was a blast.

The so-called “real commander” (PVDoor zergmeister) and his obnoxious minions gave us no end of grief for “accomplishing nothing” as if we should apologize for having fun. Did I mention we are like 100,000 points ahead and maybe it might be nice to allow our insanely outnumbered opponents to cap some stuff from time to time while we fight balanced groups in the fields? I’m fed up with the whole “we have to always win” mentality which is more about the commanders’ egos than fun for the rest of us.

ZOMG they just took a tower!!!!!! Everybody get to the WP and follow the commander!!!!

Who gives a baby cat.

Same thing happened to me last night…Was catching grief for leading our guild group while tagged up (normally we try not to tag but had some people that needed the follow icon). Even though I asked people to tag up and lead the main zerg(they wouldn’t), and warned people that if they followed we wouldn’t be concerned with PPT/PVDOOR/etc.

I actually had a guy tell me he wasn’t “following me, he was following the people following me”…..

Like I said deleting the score would be the best way IMO to get people to play WvW, leaving the scoreboard just makes people think everything lives and dies with PPT.

watch that for a nice few laughs, the people that make the game struggle with what it has become even…

I asked for this change the first month the game came out and was ignored. I asked again a few months after that and a dev responded and flat out said this would never happen.

I argued for just removing the scoreboard (while keeping the score still tallying in the background). People just had no visible way to know who was winning/losing. I argued this would increase participation in WvW throughout the week as opposed to two servers quitting by Tuesday. Devs were not apparently impressed with the idea. They seem to be partial to ridiculous ideas like AoE caps.

Sarrs.4831:

Cactus.2710:

I can understand why people think the score is meaningless because quite honestly it is, but where we’re at is like turning off the scoreboard at a football game and just having both teams run around tackling each other for their own amusement.

If nobody cares about the score at a football match, then sure, that analogy works, but people actually are very interested in knowing whose team is winning. Scoring in football is fundamentally tied to skill and ability.

Scoring in WvW?… Eh, not so much.

I didn’t say that scoring in WvW was based upon skill and ability. It isn’t … we all know it’s based upon population and coverage. My point was that ANet has so kittenized the original concept for WvW, and made the scoring so meaningless, that where we are now is analogous to turning off the scoreboard at a football game and simply engaging in the mayhem. It’s no wonder that GvG and fight clubs emerged to put some structure back into things … but they certainly aren’t WvW.

Cuchullain.3104:

Agreed. I could care less about the score, what tier we’re in, or anything else. I just want fun, intense fights and on my server, these are getting as rare as exotic drops nowadays. All we do is run around following clueless “commanders” and knocking doors down. If we go up against a superior server, no one bothers to show. No one wants to incur idiotic death penalties (another bar to active participation in WvW that needs to go to attract PVE’ers) which is why people run rather than fight to the death.

The other night a commander tagged up and formed a small roaming group and we finally got to have some open-field fights with like-minded opponents. It was a blast.

The so-called “real commander” (PVDoor zergmeister) and his obnoxious minions gave us no end of grief for “accomplishing nothing” as if we should apologize for having fun. Did I mention we are like 100,000 points ahead and maybe it might be nice to allow our insanely outnumbered opponents to cap some stuff from time to time while we fight balanced groups in the fields? I’m fed up with the whole “we have to always win” mentality which is more about the commanders’ egos than fun for the rest of us.

ZOMG they just took a tower!!!!!! Everybody get to the WP and follow the commander!!!!

Who gives a baby cat.

If WvW was anything like it was supposed to be, it would take some strategy and teamwork to take a tower. I’m pretty sure that if tPvP wasn’t such an epic failure that you’d be happier there, but those of us who wanted PvP on a broader scale thought we’d be getting something different in WvW. And if we had, score would have been meaningful.