I had messed around in Alpine maps a bit during the nearly 3 yrs before the Desert maps. Then when the Desert maps came out I decided to explore and learn the maps while doing dailies.
I’m kinda sad that no one bothered to learn or run the Desert maps. True it was harder to find the opposition, but it also required deeper strategy. Going back to the Alpine maps seems like a jump back into easy mode for the borderlands. Frankly, it’s a bit boring now. No hunting or planning . . . just Zerg vs Zerg.
Oh well, the mobs want easy mode (but want it challenging too)
- sigh -
“John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute”
I had messed around in Alpine maps a bit during the nearly 3 yrs before the Desert maps. Then when the Desert maps came out I decided to explore and learn the maps while doing dailies.
I’m kinda sad that no one bothered to learn or run the Desert maps. True it was harder to find the opposition, but it also required deeper strategy. Going back to the Alpine maps seems like a jump back into easy mode for the borderlands. Frankly, it’s a bit boring now. No hunting or planning . . . just Zerg vs Zerg.
Oh well, the mobs want easy mode (but want it challenging too)
- sigh -
Players tried it, most didn’t like it.
The core of RvR is zerg gameplay… These aren’t supposed to be 10v10v10 wars. Maybe you should try spvp.
The desert maps will get revamps to be more conducive to zerg gameplay and be rotated back eventually.
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
Yea, the dbls should be back in around 2 months, now. I love the abls, but I had just gotten used to the dbls when they yanked them. Am looking forward to the rotation, as I had actually gotten to like the dbls quite a bit.
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I dont get your post…you “messed around a bit” in alpine, meaning you didnt really learn it, but you decided to give a chance and learn the dbl and you find it to be better for strategy?
What exactly is it about the dbl that encouraged strategy, the gimmicks everywhere? Having all the structures spread apart made them strategically useless unlike in alpine where EVERY objective has strategic value.
Despite what some people want to believe, many of us did actually try and learn the dbl. My guild for example raids almost exclusively on borderlands, and we raid 5 times a week, was plenty of time to learn it. Did it ever occur to some people that its not a fun map, it does not encourage fun gameplay, it encourages bunkering with siege and reliance on gimmicks.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
As much as I hated the DBL I much prefer them over what EB has become after the ques and play style since the linkings. Rotating the two BLs is fine and dandy for me.
I wouldn’t say no one bothered to learn to run them. I can attest that by the time they rotated back to alpine my guild had devised multiple strategies for capturing, and even found the most oppurtune places on the map to ambush groups.
Our(Nors) issue with DBL compared to ABL was that it is simply larger and less conducent to the nature of WvW. Alpine simply makes it easier to get to the fight. I think that’s all the majority of my guild really cares about. Again, that is just our perspective.
Rest assured though, they said they’d rotate the maps.
I’m kinda sad that no one bothered to learn or run the Desert maps. True it was harder to find the opposition, but it also required deeper strategy. Going back to the Alpine maps seems like a jump back into easy mode for the borderlands. Frankly, it’s a bit boring now. No hunting or planning . . . just Zerg vs Zerg.
- sigh -
The Desert maps had less strategy because objectives were extremely defensible by map layout alone (before the rest of the guild buffs) and could not be threatened from minor objectives. This made towers completely useless from the get go. Second, on release, some extremely poor design choices to increase siege cost ontop of objectives laid out that could not have catas hit outer and inner walls and tada the dev’s had created that ultra turtle-up map. Also bonus: the insane lag from a lame PvE event in the middle made the map near unplayable until the event was resolved.
All of these poor features came standard out of the box, before anyone mentioned how it was a hard map ‘to get around’.
I’m really hoping they invite PvE and PvP streamers as priority again so they can really get some meaningful feedback on a game mode none of these players play and some outright despise.
Well I ‘learnt’ the DBL if you like and the more I understood it, the more its flaws became apparent to me. I knew all the shortcuts, mapped all the hay piles, but it didn’t make me enjoy the map more. Objectives are so geographically isolated that there is literally no objective-objetive warfare which means sieges are terriblly uninteresting. The whole map was not conducive to actually seeing and fighting other players because the distribution of objectives relative to spawn points just doesn’t enjoy the same flow/logic as we see in the ABL.
I don’t really understand why the ABL is considered ‘easy mode’. I find the difficulty of WvW comes from the players you come up against and not really how many staircases I need to ascend to get to the lord. I find far more people trying to kill me on the ABL than I ever did on the DBL, so for me the ABL is more of a challenge.
Its a false premise to think that because we didn’t like the map, that we hadn’t learned the map. We knew the map and a lot of us found that the DBBL was NOT FUN. I was not a fan of the aesthetics either, but I can live with that if the playtime on the map were enjoyable.
I know they’re rotating it back in. That’ll be a few months where they’ll be empty of our guild again.
In alpine you can find your fight within 2 minutes and wander for 15 minutes in desert and still nothing, even if the map is full
Wvw players abandoned eotm maps and anet made an eotm2. I dont know why
The kittenload of sieges still a problem (big one) in alpines, but in desert it was ridicoluos.
The bunkering inside the keeps with tons of siege, is by far worse on the alpines, but by night you can ktrain it in less than an hour, if you outnumber the others greatly.
As a pvp map though it’s much better, as for objectives it depends.
Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.
The bunkering inside the keeps with tone of siege, is by far worse on the alpines, but by night you can ktrain it in less than an hour, if you outnumber the others greatly.
But the difference is that you can threaten the keeps with long range siege much easier on alpine. True, you can siege up lets say bay like crazy, but the SW tower can safely treb outer, forcing the people bunkering to come out and cap it or be left exposed on that flank. On desert, every siege spot will be unprotected. The towers serve zero purpose. There is no reason to keep the cap-countercap flow going, because if you get a keep you can just stay there with the occasional suicide rush on open siege.
This makes for a massive difference in how WvW is played. It breaks WvW. And people said nope in general. “Learning the map” or karmatraining has always been irrelevant.
The biggest thing I liked about the dbls was that everyone hated them. I could spend hours patrolling the south loaded with 1v1s and small team fights. There was more to cap as a roamer & you could cap a camp with out 10 people coming to kill you. Also the terrain was interesting and kept you on your toes instead of just putting on auto run. I think the rotation will be a good thing.
The biggest thing I liked about the dbls was that everyone hated them. I could spend hours patrolling the south loaded with 1v1s and small team fights. There was more to cap as a roamer & you could cap a camp with out 10 people coming to kill you. Also the terrain was interesting and kept you on your toes instead of just putting on auto run. I think the rotation will be a good thing.
I feel settling for a broken map they made somewhat " playable" vs having them design great wvw maps from the ground up with the primary focus on keeping players engaged in nonstop strategic, fun, challenging, PvP action the entire time they are on them is selling players short of what they actually deserve to have received instead.
“Settling” for poop instead of expecting them to start from the ground up making something that is actually good instead.
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After the changes they made in the desert maps just prior to server linking the desert maps weren’t as bad. I was actually starting to enjoy them a bit. They do however need work before reintroducing them back in the WvW cycle. Especially the Air and Fire keeps both of which were far too large to really defend properly. The garrison one would have been better with just some internal inside keep changes. They can also reduce the over all size of the map and still keep the objects and ambiance the same just reduce running distances between objects.
Clean the middle up a bit to allow the GvG peeps somewhere large to fight.
I miss being Thor Thunder God when owning all 3 air shrines and the air keep. I loved jumping off cliffs and landing with a big thump, i had way too much fun doing that.
I don’t like the idea being floated out there of 1 team with desert other 2 with alpine. That is just going to make people angry and claim unfair advantage etc. The whining will be real for sure. The only way this idea would be somewhat fair is if a 3rd map were designed and all 3 teams had different maps, then again they’d still whine.
The other idea floating around is changing the maps every month three months etc. I don’t like this either. IMHO both maps should always be in cycle, if you’re going this route. match-up 1 gets alpine match-up 2 gets desert and so on. No one knows what map their match-up will have until reset. This not only keeps everyone on their toes it also keeps things fresh. Ideally though I’d like this idea far better with a 3rd map in the mix.
~ Emma Vine Sixty Nine Shades Of [NUDE] – Crystal Desert
The biggest thing I liked about the dbls was that everyone hated them. I could spend hours patrolling the south loaded with 1v1s and small team fights. There was more to cap as a roamer & you could cap a camp with out 10 people coming to kill you. Also the terrain was interesting and kept you on your toes instead of just putting on auto run. I think the rotation will be a good thing.
Isn’t that more PvP/PvE than WvW?
Quality logic there mate, keep it up. You will succeed in life.
So… A matter of taste is a matter of skill and challenge? As beautiful as the maps were, they were loaded with gimicks. Most players did not like gimicks, they were removed.
It kind of reminded me of the vale wvw map that got scrapped before even being released. (If you do not know what i mean, tyria 3d and Google are your friend).
As it stands you will get desert back, just with fewer gimicks.
And unless your plan to kitten people off, do not assume that taste=skill.
I apologize by starting off this thread with the assumption people did not try DBL. The DBL map was so barren compared to the many zergs of ABL I made a bad guess. I was also biased also because I did not have strong gear until about the time DBL came out.
Thanks to all for the constructive comments about why they liked ABL vs DBL. I realize now how little I know about the strategy involved in WvW. :P
“John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute”
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
This, of course, makes perfect sense, and even if ABL towers are of more help for tactics than DBL’s, I still feel like DBL was more appropriate for splitting groups, and confusing enemies, and such, for overall tactics.
The main issue is those tactics aren’t involving blobs, and lots of players want blobs, so lots of players don’t want DBL. The almost only solution would be to make a whole new system so that there’d be a big blobby lagfest fight next to a far more tactical capture the map. And everyone would be happy…
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
You could have saved yourself the effort and just said that you like to PvD.
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
You could have saved yourself the effort and just said that you like to PvD.
Not at all. I love a good fight if it last more than a few minutes. That usually doesn’t happen in blobs and DBL encourages splits and better fights in my opinion.
It seemed to me that the way the desert maps were made as well as the changes they made to WvW made Zerging far more effective than running small groups or roaming. Before HoT I used to roam a lot and ran small groups 4-7 people to take and scout kill enemy scouts. There is no point to roam now as the guild upgrades and sentry’s do that just for you. At least on the Alpine BLs you can split into smaller groups to take objectives flank and not have to worry about all the PvE BS that was in the lord fights or keep designs.
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
You could have saved yourself the effort and just said that you like to PvD.
Not at all. I love a good fight if it last more than a few minutes. That usually doesn’t happen in blobs and DBL encourages splits and better fights in my opinion.
I agree, alpine is nothing but open field, nothign inetretsing whatsoever
I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.
I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.
You could have saved yourself the effort and just said that you like to PvD.
Not at all. I love a good fight if it last more than a few minutes. That usually doesn’t happen in blobs and DBL encourages splits and better fights in my opinion.
I agree, alpine is nothing but open field, nothign inetretsing whatsoever
Looks like EotM entertains you though and its remained untouched. Maybe make a few more laps there, ya?
