Guild Wars 2

My server just lost everything we had to the enemy zerg. We had trebs up and quickly took down their rams, but they just sat there and mashed their faces against the door till it fell. It took them 20 minutes, but there was no risk for them, as they outnumbered us 10 to 1.

What is the point of having siege when players can just ignore it and afk on a door till they get in 20 minutes later. There is no reason that players should be able to damage the doors with their skills.

This simple change will do wonders for toning down the zerging that is rampant in WvW.

even 10 to 1 you should of been able to arrow cart them down in 20 minutes.

We downed them, they rezzed, they AOEd the arrowcarts that CANNOT be placed on walls in any position where they can actually survive random AoE.

We build some more, downed them, they rezzed, they AOEd.
The rez power of the zerg is unparalleled.

Now they just took our keep… using water gates… no need for rams, just hug the walls and spam, if any siege pops up, just move back and auto attack it from the water. You can kill it NP. and if they do get you, just swim around a bit while waving your hands.

Saying that you cannot damage a keep door with a hammer, sword, rifle or any other weapon (for that matter), over time, is silly….especially with 50 peeps on the door… However, I can vouch that it would take quite a long time irl to down a keep door of a castle armed only with melee weapons and guns. Now when wielding magic, irl, that is a different story

Amonde Daneren.2380:

We downed them, they rezzed, they AOEd the arrowcarts that CANNOT be placed on walls in any position where they can actually survive random AoE.

We build some more, downed them, they rezzed, they AOEd.
The rez power of the zerg is unparalleled.

Now they just took our keep… using water gates… no need for rams, just hug the walls and spam, if any siege pops up, just move back and auto attack it from the water. You can kill it NP. and if they do get you, just swim around a bit while waving your hands.

Except they can be placed out of range of AoE. Or at least out of range of 99% of the AoE out there. A few Ele Meteors may still be in range.

Except they can’t. Or if you want to be really specific… In many towers there are no locations where siege can be placed to meed the following criteria:

- cannot be hit by engineer lobbing grenades or thieves with cluster bombs.
- cannot be hit by elementalists with increased AoE radius traits.
- cannot be hit by Rangers with 1.5K range and increased AoE radius.
- can actually see there you need to shoot/ can hit the attackers with the siege’s trajectory/particularities.
Some keeps/towers have such spots (Jerrifer’s). Others simply do not (Klovan).

Last but not least, this is largely irrelevant. The fact that logically people with hammers should be able to break a door is immaterial. People that have been impaled by hundreds of arrows should not be able to get back up once you give them a belly rub. By the same logic, why can players not attack walls with said hammers?

Ele and ranger aoe can hit almost any siege you’re going to place.

Mesmer phantasms CAN hit ANY siege you place.

Siege won’t kill anyone in a zerg. They’ll revive right through it if anyone actually does get downed. It’s more of a deterrent than anything.

Then you do not know how to siege properly. 3-4 well placed arrow carts at the gates can hold back a zerg of 30.

put some arrow carts on the ground behind the door (out of aoe obv) and shoot the ground just behind the door.

This takes care of any melee attempting to hit the door point blank, forcing them to use ranged, which takes much longer and you can significantly delay by ferrying in supply and fixing the door as they shoot it.

shortcake.8659:

Ele and ranger aoe can hit almost any siege you’re going to place.

Mesmer phantasms CAN hit ANY siege you place.

Siege won’t kill anyone in a zerg. They’ll revive right through it if anyone actually does get downed. It’s more of a deterrent than anything.

Actually, there are many spots Elementalist and ranger AOE’s can not hit. (I’m an Ele, I’ve tested tons of spots.) If unsure, ask an Ele or ranger to help you figure out the exact locations, a step in the wrong direction can spell death for a piece of siege.

As for mesmers, they need to be able to target the siege, if it can’t be targeted it cant have an illusion sent after it. (At least from what I am aware of.)

I won’t name the places, I’ll let people play in WvW more often to find them. (Oh and I find new spots randomly, then again I’ve spent over 600 hours in WvW. So it’s not all “obvious” locations)

Einzelganger.4152:

Saying that you cannot damage a keep door with a hammer, sword, rifle or any other weapon (for that matter), over time, is silly….especially with 50 peeps on the door… However, I can vouch that it would take quite a long time irl to down a keep door of a castle armed only with melee weapons and guns. Now when wielding magic, irl, that is a different story

Lol you do know that in reality 2 arrow carts (assuming they existed) would wipe off a 50 person “army” in like.. 5 seconds? And they would be like – dead, permanently pushing up the daisies and not returning and clobbering the gate? :P There is no point in comparing with reality here.

This thread is not about whether or not siege can be placed safe from AoE. YES, there are places it could be done; NO, some locations have so such places. Klovan in EB is a good example of nowhere to place siege that it could actually do good against the invader AND not have it melt to AoE.

All that is immaterial to the discussion, which is whether or not players should be able to damage door without siege. Letting people mash their faces against the door till it falls only helps when zerging, and the bigger the zerg the better it is.

In that situation, the enemy is effectively trading a renewable resource (their health bar) for a finite one (your door health). The more they outnumber you, the more initial health they have, the faster they can renew it; while your door health is static, finite.

The current setup makes no sense. Why have players able to damage doors and not walls? What would happen if they made it consistent, and let players damage walls too?

omg.... why does everyone want to place seige weapons that cannot be hit... thats unfair surely?

I think its fine the way it is you do hardly any damage to a door as it is..... Your problem here is the zerg not how the keeps r setup..

My advice would be to try and split them up byattacking diff outposts and towers

OP,

No…

The problem isn’t hitting the gate with weapons, it’s the fact that you got zerged.

It’s not so much a matter of if siege can be hit or not, but what with. Think of it in terms of cost/benefit. Currently there is a cost in setting up siege- time, coin, jpuzzle hassle, supply, etc. There is no cost in spending a bit of renuable health and skills at a wall. One solution is to find the balance in the cost. So, with the exception of melee hits for example, you might have siege only be damageable by opposing siege. Maybe not entirely practical off the cuff, but its something.

Just put a catapult on your side of the gate and blast them off of it.

I say disable siege damage on doors and let only players with them with a special weapon just for the doors and make the ammo of the weapon cost money

Every tower and keep can be defended by ‘untouchable’ siege that can prevent attackers from meleeing the door.

I agree with the OP.

There should be ways to “break the siege” without simply outnumbering your opponents. Running them out of supply should be that way. Even if it’s costly to sally out and destroy catapults or trebuchets, it’s possible to wear them down without having to out-zerg the enemy zerg.

But when they can simply stand back and pelt the door to death with pistol shots, there’s no way to stop them unless you can simply beat them man to man in the field, which is not how WvW should be. As it stands, fort defense is really not about winning the fight so much as it’s about slowing them down until your own team’s zerg can respond. If you don’t have a zerg then all you’re doing is slowing them down a little bit.

You clearly care from all the necro’d threads.