Guild Wars 2

Imho they should:
1) Remove Hard ressing (=ressing while in combat)
2) Give only 1 rally bonus (and not 3 as it is now)
3) Dead players who are not revived after 60-120 seconds (debatable) are automatically ported to their spawnpoint.

Rallies, resses and hard resses should be a time-limited possibility. The side who manages to stay alive the longer should get rewarded. At the moment this only gives another edge to larger groups.

Lets start with strongly upping the contribution needed on a target before you are eligable for a rally on its demise.
Right now the bar is set incredibly low, so low that a large number of players can rally on a single persons death quite easy. Thats another thing, limit how many players can rally on a kill, for example only the top 3 contributors. So no more seeing 1/3th of a zerg rally on a single kill.

I like the idea of moving it to a stomp-only. Caution must be taken however. As this would just incentivize even more Warrior and Guardian stacking then we already see due to Stability Stomping. Pushing certain professions with limited/harder cooldown “guarenteed” stomps even more out.
Ultimately it might be more of a downside then a plus, instead perhaps limit how many and how fast people can rez players manually.

Additionally id like to add that a player cannot rally from a kill when one (or more) enemy players are channeling a Finishing move. So when someone is stomping you, you cannot rally from a kill. Direct intervention is required from an ally.

And finally, more as an added thing. For the love of Grenth dont let my enemy rally on a kill that i made. Its silly, albeit uncommon, that i show up to a fight between 2 enemy players from seperate servers. Both are downed, and when i kill one the other gets rallied from my assistance.

I wish rez of a dead player was only possible out of combat.
+ zerg can’t rez dead players and fight
+ Strategy : players can put traps on dead ennemies to put rezzers in combat
+ If falling of a cliff, alows for res
- some players will me rezzers, but easy to put them in combat

Rally on stomps
+ More strategy for groups
+ Less “luck” comes in play
- no more rallying in 1v1
Limit of 5, as a party, aleatory, because if it’s the ones who did the most damages, some professions cantt keep up, and some support spec are not doing as much damage as the profession can do, and a groups needs their support…
Limiting to stomps will already bring a limit to the mindless zerg rallying (already, with bloodlust, not much stomps going on in large scale fights).
- some profession, that are already not likes in bus (ranger, ingeneer) do not have much to stop stomps… For other “useful” profession – it’s gonna be an annoyance, but not that much…

Let’s kill two birds with one stone.
Avoid rezzing if more than 5 allies surrounding.
This would discourage zerging so much without destroying rezz mechanics and encouraging small escale fights.

Best,

Haltair, one of the twelve shadows

I like the idea of people only rallying if their target is stomped.

So my 2 coppers on the topic:

I’m an avid WvW player, and I agree there are some problems with the current mechanic, but I don’t see it to be as bad as most make it out to be.

Rally on Stomp: Good idea. Risk is high to stomp in mass of AoE. Only tanks can do this at cost of their health and possibly down attempting this. No need to limit amount that can rally since this is a very risky thing to do in a zerg fight.

Hard Resing in combat: I see no problem with this mechanic as it is. If people are dedicated to resing then they aren’t dealing damage to the enemies and can be easily downed by AoE damage. (Stealth doesn’t prevent damage). The risk vs reward here is fine.

Hard Resing OOC: Please do not limit this. Slow classes like mesmers and guardians will severely suffer from this when they have to rerun the entire map to rejoin the zerg.

We need to tweak these mechanics in WvW.

1. Auto-respawn timer when dead, stops when being hard-rezzed
2. Hard res’ing can only be done OOC and only be 1 person
3. Rallying – as far as the stomping topic goes, that just makes it the new job of warriors – pop stances, stomp stomp stomp. “Timewarps on the stompers!” If we’re going to have rallying it needs to be on a 1 to 1 ratio. If I die completely, the enemy downed player that did the most damage to me can be rallied.
4. No rallying off of ambient creatures please for the love of all that is sacred

5-for-1 rallying is fine as a PvP mechanic but really has no place in WvW.

Josh Davis.6015:

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

The first idea about rallying on cleaving sounds fine at first, until you remember that there are three classes who can still moved while downed. If both sides get a person downed..lets say one side ele and one side guardian, if both are being attempted stomped at the same time, the ele will most likely be the one to rally 95% of the time.

Imo for now..some steps that should be considered are to slow down the revive rate, limit one reviver at most, one rally per stomp and unable to revive when stealthed.

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

I wish I could be saying the same too, but that never happens with engies horrible downed skills. :/

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the post, OP. This is a fairly polarizing topic, but it is interesting nonetheless. It came up quite a bit in the 3 likes / 3 dislikes thread as well. Changing the way downstate works would have such a large sweeping change on the way the game is played – it’s sort of fun to theorycraft the ramifications!

Keep in mind, I’m just spit-balling here – none of this is in the works. I would just like to see some more conversation on the topic.

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

Do both of those.

Please.

How about we limit how many players can revive a downed or dead player? If someone is downed, only two players can help revive. If someone is dead, only one player can revive. And this change should apply to WvW, PvE and PvP.

Why is this topic being debated? The downed is and has been part of the game since inception and was touted as an integral part of the game’s system. If there was any time to say you guys need to learn to play within the rule set of the game this one would be the case study. Most of these argument tend to want to push towards one’s personal play style without any concern for the repercussions within the game mechanics. For me this seems pretty much selfish arguments because I cannot succeed unless this or that change is made. The downed state mechanic is fine. ANET needs to concentrate on bugs within the game rather than messing with a system and creating more bugs.

Rhizo.5089:

Why is this topic being debated? The downed is and has been part of the game since inception and was touted as an integral part of the game’s system. If there was any time to say you guys need to learn to play within the rule set of the game this one would be the case study. Most of these argument tend to want to push towards one’s personal play style without any concern for the repercussions within the game mechanics. For me this seems pretty much selfish arguments because I cannot succeed unless this or that change is made. The downed state mechanic is fine. ANET needs to concentrate on bugs within the game rather than messing with a system and creating more bugs.

It’s not necessarily downed, it’s crazy rallying and hard rezzing the dead to get back into the fight that is mainly the topic at hand here. It’s all a snowballing effect which has been explained in this thread and others.

I like the “hard rezz” system in WvW as it is because it can be very difficult to hard rezz someone while fighting in combat. I do not like the rally mechanic.

I would start reworking the rally mechanic by a simple change, that is, only 1 player can rally of off 1 kill. Not multiple players.

2nd, I would reduce the range that at which a rally can rezz a player, significantly.

Juts those 2 things would change the entire gameplay from what it is now.

Further rally mechanic changes I would like to see are as follows:

On Keep / Tower Lords, give them a 10 second duration stacking debuff each time the Keep/Tower Lord is rallied/bannered, so the 1st time will be 10 seconds, 2nd time 20 seconds, etc.

Remove Warrior Banner ability to rally 5 players, and scale down ALL multi rezz in game abilities to insta rezz multiple players to a single target, unless specifically traited for it, so that players who choose to have these abilities have to give up something for them thus making these abilities more balanced then they are now.

I have nothing against war banners, or other rezz utilities… While they have it on, they do not have something else, and using it is a matter of timing and teamplay… A war can put it’s banner half a second too late and loose it, or just right when it’s needed and win the day… plus – as far as i know War (up to 5) and rangers (up to 3) have the ability to bring back downed players – and both are elites – which, in my opinion, justifies it can rezz many

So, I have no problems with actual skills, only with the random luck of being brought back to life because an ennemy died…

As someone who solo’s a lot, I can probably count on my hand the number of times I’ve gotten up from downing someone while i’ve been downed and end up winning. I cannot count the number of times I’ve flat out lost because while i’ve managed to down someone, The opposing side had stealth or teleports that allowed them to get rezzed easily.

As a Ranger I basically only have access to Stability on a 120 second Elite.. so that’s my only real way to stomp someone.. So the down system probably has an effect on me more then anyone else..But its bloody annoying in the end. Rezzing in DAOC was incredibly powerful….But in that game you had not only a fairly long cast time that you could easily interrupt, you also had a huge penalty for being rezzed in combat in the first place…If I down someone in WvW, and they get rezzed…Sometimes they’re better of then they were before.

That’s just the solo side of the issue, think about the Zerg vs Zerg side of it.

For example, a Huge force hits a tower you’re guarding, and you kill a ton with Arrowcarts.. Do you know how many times I’ve seen people get rezzed while i was arrowcarting their body? at a Certain Point groups rez so fast that you simply cannot down anymore…

Its just a bad system.

simple.. make it only 1 person can rez in WvW

and make it so that you can only rally in WvW if you tag an enemy that is kill by stomping ; normal kill wouldn’t rally…

this way you do not remove the rezzing and rallying completely, only reduce its speed….

ANET should try this first and see how it impact the game….

EDIT : and yes any player not rezzed within 1 minute after his death should be auto respawned to their base.

To me the primary problem is that it can cause a situation where a group of players does everything right and still loses. Say it’s a good fight of 15-20 on each side or so, between two organized groups. But some uplevel or something who’s not in teamspeak runs in, gets easily downed, and causes the fight to swing in favor of those who rallied off him.

That means there are situations where you have allies show up to a fight and instead of being happy to see them you wish they would go away. That’s no good.

My suggestion that I think would be relatively easy to implement is that only one person can rally off a kill. It wouldn’t change WvW tactics too much, but it would remove the problem I described (or at least reduce it).

My other suggestion is that if someone is dead for a certain amount of time, they’re auto-ported to spawn. It prevents corpse-scouting, which is a weird mechanic because there’s no way to stop it. You can’t kill the guy again after all. It also would address some things that I consider exploits, like Mesmers dying near the Bay water grates and getting rezzed from outside the keep.

This is like reading what children think is the best tasting skittles that are color blind™

And if you are stomped, no rez is possible. It’s a finisher, it makes no sense that you can rez or be rezzed.

Like it was already said:

Make that you can only rally if you are one the 2 top dps on the guy that was stomped. If the enemy is killed by dps you will not rally.

If you really want to keep the healing on downstate from you server members on the game, at least make it really slow if they are in combat, so that they really have to commit to it.

Not like now, were 2 guys can almost instant get 1 guy up from downstate.

The current mechanics of the downed state and reviving allies is just fine, I don’t see anything wrong with it.
Sometimes it works to your advantage, sometimes it doesn’t.

If you limit rallying to stomps, then Rangers and npc pets will be shunned even more (“we would have rallied, but the dumb ranger let his pet kill the downed guy”)

If you increase the damage required to rally, support people suffer.
If you limit the rally to the highest damage dealers, support people suffer.
If you reduce the ability to rally, support people become more necessary for manual rezzes and rez skills (that take up a slot and take up to 3 seconds to cast and do ZERO DAMAGE).

Please don’t make support more necessary while simultaneously punishing them more for doing it. Playing support really needs to be more rewarding, not less.

Rally should be eliminated in WvW in any form including stomps. Downed is fine without Rally.

Dead players should have to port. We are rewarding poor player defense and bigger groups of players leaving rez in the game. Currently a zerg that loses half its players taking on a small skill group can come back to life full force in seconds.

These two changes would easily create a far more interesting WvW dynamic. With these two changes smaller teams could effectively whittle down big zergs.

to the OP: WTF man with that wall of text? Where is TLDR? >.<

What they really need to do is:
1 death can rally only ONE person.

For example:
Green player A was hit by 10 red players. After that all red players was downed. Than, green player was downed and finished - so, all 10 red players will up? No way! Only 1 red player must got rally- with most damage dealt to the green player A or most recently damage dealt or just random - doesn’t matter. But! Only one!

"- One rally per kill. Rallies only from players. Maybe only the person that did the most damage to an opponent gets the rally from them. This will also contribute to another common issue people have with WvW, which is that Melee Trains are too strong."
Absolutely agree here!

Here’s how I would fix rallies and defeated.

Players can only rally on the last thing they hit.
This would make people actually aim their downed skills, and the death of one random uplevel is unlikely to rally an entire zerg.

Hard-rezzing only out of combat.
This has been advocated by many different people.

In a system that does not punish balling up, with extremely small maps that can be traversed in 2 minutes by the zerg, and that does not reward splitting up, it is inevitable that this would happen, more for “strategical” (not really strategy involved) than tactical reasons (i.e. the lack of a trinity). There is just not one reason to run with more than one massive blob (excepting scouts) on a given map, save for separate guild/friend raids and that has nothing to do with game mechanics.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the post, OP. This is a fairly polarizing topic, but it is interesting nonetheless. It came up quite a bit in the 3 likes / 3 dislikes thread as well. Changing the way downstate works would have such a large sweeping change on the way the game is played – it’s sort of fun to theorycraft the ramifications!

Keep in mind, I’m just spit-balling here – none of this is in the works. I would just like to see some more conversation on the topic.

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

I wouldn’t want stomp only for exactly the reason you gave. What I would like would be dodgeball rules. One dead =’s one revive. This would help smaller group deal with larger ones since far fewer would rally off of just one kill while still allowing the 1v2 type of situation you describe.

No hard ressing is another thing that would allow smaller more coordinated groups to take down much larger uncoordinated ones. Right now if you chip away at a large force, they can simply mass res the dead.

Mass ressing downed needs to have a DR on the healing provided by the extra people. It can be far too easy to just have multiple people res a fallen ally when the forces are very large and uneven.

There is also far too much rallyfodder laying around the maps. Half or quarter the number of random bears/deer/dolyaks/etc. Sure they might be cute, but they cause problems. I’ve used the unnecessary npc’s to rally myself many times. I’ve also abused them to gain stealth over and over on my thief when I shouldn’t have been able to. Solves two problems at once.

actually, this issue is directly connected to AOE cap and condition cap. as it is based on the mechanic that connect between all initiators of damage to their targets.
if you tagged several enemies, and they have tagged you. there is a matrix of links between all the involved.

if you get in downed state and somebody else killed player that was tagged by you. you are rallied just because you put AOE in the beginning of the fight.

if you die, all downed enemies that you have tagged in the beginning of the fight will rally.

this mechanic is flawed, because it overcomplicate a simple situation and leads to negative effects all over the gameplay like a domino effect.

the removal of this mechanic will solve so many issues that plague the game…
you should only rally if you kill an enemy from downed state, that’s it.

CEDWYN.5392:

Why not tie rezzing to something objective based… oh I don’t know, maybe the ruins?

0 bloodlust: rezzing of a downed player can be done by any method currently available, but a dead player cannot be rezzed.

1 bloodlust: a dead player can only be rezzed out of combat, within x minutes.

2 bloodlust: a dead player can be rezzed by any method, no time limit.

3 bloodlust: a dead player is rezzed whenever a stomp is made.

Restrictions: rez restrictions are applied at time of death. So if you die while only have 1 bloodlust, and your server goes up to 2 bloodlust, you still are restricted to 1 bloodlust worth of rez power.

Its a nice idea but favors stacked servers over the outmanned. Stacked servers already have the zergball effect in fights to begin with.

Gives me an idea though.

• In a world without ressing from dead, change outmanned buff to include ressing from dead.

Downed/defeated state mechanics only really seem to be an issue with zergs as you can infinitely res completely defeated players making it a bit of a nightmare for outnumbered defenders to really make a dent in the attackers. So I think disabling resurrection of defeated players whilst you are in combat would be an interesting change. I think many people also find it unpalatable that you can rally off of simply anything you happened to tag whilst spamming your auto-attack. I’d like that to be looked into also.

As someone who almost exclusively partakes in small group roaming, I have to say I think the downed state works quite well in adding a certain extra depth to each encounter by making you plan for stomping/res prevention instead of just having to burst down each opponent sequentially. So I wouldn’t like to see any dramatic changes that make the combat a simpler affair.

Josh Davis.6015:

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting.

Pro’s

• Would lead to new builds being put in play amongst organized guilds/forces
• Thieves and Mesmers would be serious contenders in the new meta given their superior advantages when it comes to stomping (both stealth and invuln features).

You are right about it adding more dimensions to combat. Hell, if we’re going to spitball and go for some real out there ideas, what if once downed you couldnt be DPS’d down? It’s stomp, or bleed out (though perhaps when using the #4 heal you can be struck and interrupted). Combat would evolve entirely around downing, and stomping the downed, and the risk/reward involved, not to mention the build meta altering to making that happen.
Crazy, but an idea.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the post, OP. This is a fairly polarizing topic, but it is interesting nonetheless. It came up quite a bit in the 3 likes / 3 dislikes thread as well. Changing the way downstate works would have such a large sweeping change on the way the game is played – it’s sort of fun to theorycraft the ramifications!

Keep in mind, I’m just spit-balling here – none of this is in the works. I would just like to see some more conversation on the topic.

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

I very much appreciate your response, Josh. It’s nice when the community agrees on something being problematic and the developer’s listen when they ask for help. It’s not something every game is graced with, having a team of people who are willing to work with the players. So thank you for your time reading my post and writing your response.

As for the rallying on spike, I personally think that is a great idea. Especially as someone who is very defensive in large scale combat, and prefers to DPS my opponents down from afar, it would force me to get in their faces and risk my own harm while spiking them. Otherwise, they may get res’d and my efforts will be for nothing. Thus making spiking a much more rewarding mechanic.

Not being able to hard res someone isn’t an idea I enjoy. Although again, this is just personal opinion, I find that people are usually too lazy to bother with fully dead teammates in large scale fights (unless it’s a guild zerg and they’re all very coordinated.) Rallying the opponent on spike and/or when hard res’ing, the dead person’s health bar will begin to fall if their res’er is interrupted is what I would prefer. Which would mean that res’ing a fully dead individual would be much more of a commitment.

I would go for the following.

Rally only on spiking.
Spiking gets pushed back by damage.
Downed abilities do not cause the pushback.
Rezzing gets pushed back by damage.
Rezzing applies reveled.

This way if you down an enemy in the middle of the fight they stay downed until either they get rezed, get spiked, or their teammates spike someone. Since damage would push back spiking/rezzing it would be a risk to try and do so in the middle of combat. Pushing back spiking due to damage also counters the stability issue a little bit.

Distaste.4801:

I would go for the following.

Rally only on spiking.
Spiking gets pushed back by damage.
Downed abilities do not cause the pushback.
Rezzing gets pushed back by damage.
Rezzing applies reveled.

This way if you down an enemy in the middle of the fight they stay downed until either they get rezed, get spiked, or their teammates spike someone. Since damage would push back spiking/rezzing it would be a risk to try and do so in the middle of combat. Pushing back spiking due to damage also counters the stability issue a little bit.

No one would ever get spike again, rofl

The downed state is a good idea, something new they wanted to implemente… the problem is that for mass pvp it just sucks a lot… it is quite boring when you down people just to see they alive a second later because someone he aoed died… this is one of the greated issue on WvW…

I know it might be complicated to turn it off on WvW only, but at least give the rallied people some kind of temporary limitation, maybe 30 seconds of half speed, half attack damage, 20% less maximum HP and toughtness… I don know, just give us something.

I think the easiest way for Anet to change something would be to decrease the rally-bonus from 3 times to 1 time.
+ Organized groups get a bonus against big zergs or blobs.
+ Rewarding players, who know how to play their class
- Squishy classes get “punished” (d/d ele in guildgroups)
But I think the positiv points are by far more important than the negative one.

Another nice idee is the removing of hard-ressing, I mean, how often can you ress a member, if you fight with 20 guys against +50? There is just no time for that or you gonna die while doing it, on the other hand, the 50 guys can easily revive there mates.

I don’t know how hard it is to implement these two feature, but i would love to see it happen, even as a big open field test, if it is to dominant just nerf it like the orb-buff.
Maybe a got point for the separation of WvW and PvE Balance?

Just thought about something…

In our fights (guild group), especially when outnumbered, we often voluntarily let a few enemies down for the enemies to come and raise them, then, while they are busy rezzing, we go back at that same point and make another burst, thus downing quite a good bunch of them. Some proposed changes would also mean that strategies that are based on human/compassion behavior (save the ally before he dies!) would not really be effective anymore…

Jocksy.3415:

Just thought about something…

In our fights (guild group), especially when outnumbered, we often voluntarily let a few enemies down for the enemies to come and raise them, then, while they are busy rezzing, we go back at that same point and make another burst, thus downing quite a good bunch of them. Some proposed changes would also mean that strategies that are based on human/compassion behavior (save the ally before he dies!) would not really be effective anymore…

This would still work. In fact, this may work better with these changes since those downed players won’t rally off someone they cleaved earlier in the fight, and instead will stay downed until they are finished or rezzed. Most of this discussion is on downed players and excessive rallies more so than the downed state itself.

Oh just cut the crap already, Anet. Double downed rally time, remove hard resurrection in combat and many problems will go away. Im pretty sure at some point rally speed was even increased.

Here are sensible changes for WvW:
Only allow rallying on enemy players and npc’s above veteran rank.
Don’t limit number of revivers, limit health gain per second (or limit both).

More interesting but also more risky:
Rally 1 player on death (by any means) but make stomp have a similar effect as battle standard (i.e. rally closest X downed players within a certain range).

I’d love to see these changes! They’d even make sense in sPvP!

Here is some rationale for these changes:
The first point, I don’t think needs much explanation, but some might not agree that you should rally on ANY npc kills. Engaging veteran npc’s (read: guards, supervisors, and lords) generally entails some risk that someone will come up when you have little health and “gank” you. There should be some recompense for this risk.

My reason for the second change is that I believe that power-rezzing downed players takes too little time and is simply too low risk. There is no cooldown for revival and it only takes 2 players reviving a downed player to beat out a stomp. I’d like to see diminishing returns on revival speed so that minimum revival time is on par with the stomp cast time.

The third point I think is most interesting because it adds a bit of strategy and tension to stomp/rally decisions. This would be fun because it would incentivize stomping near your downed allies and give stomping decisions added depth. Secondly, if you have the ability to move locations while downed (ele thief mes) you could try to move near a downed opponent in the hope that a stomp rallies you, but this would also be a risk that you are responsible for the rallying of enemy players. You could also consciously try to move outside the rally range of downed enemies.
Perhaps it need not be said, but I’ll say it in anycase, but this could be used to fine-tune the amount of rallying that goes on, through a combination of effect radius and number of players affected.

Also ANet for Grenth’s sake, please put a cap on the number of times keep lords can be banner rezzed!

I think rallying is fine, but stomping should be much more permanent. If you’re fighting a larger force, whether it be 2v3 or 20v30, if you can’t wipe all the enemy they can pick their guys right back up and continue as normal. Once you’re truly defeated you should have to waypoint out. This puts much more emphasis on saving someone while they are downed and can help thin out the zergs as they can be affected by attrition. By killing a few members at a time you’d eventually be able to wipe a zerg, but that’s just not possible when they can just res the 2-3 people you killed.

Enenion.8127:

I think rallying is fine, but stomping should be much more permanent. If you’re fighting a larger force, whether it be 2v3 or 20v30, if you can’t wipe all the enemy they can pick their guys right back up and continue as normal. Once you’re truly defeated you should have to waypoint out. This puts much more emphasis on saving someone while they are downed and can help thin out the zergs as they can be affected by attrition. By killing a few members at a time you’d eventually be able to wipe a zerg, but that’s just not possible when they can just res the 2-3 people you killed.

No offense, but that is idiotic. Next time you are in a fight where you are stomped but your side wins, think about how fun it would be to WP and take another 5 minutes to solo run back to the group of people you were fighting with.

K U T M.4539:

Distaste.4801:

I would go for the following.

Rally only on spiking.
Spiking gets pushed back by damage.
Downed abilities do not cause the pushback.
Rezzing gets pushed back by damage.
Rezzing applies reveled.

This way if you down an enemy in the middle of the fight they stay downed until either they get rezed, get spiked, or their teammates spike someone. Since damage would push back spiking/rezzing it would be a risk to try and do so in the middle of combat. Pushing back spiking due to damage also counters the stability issue a little bit.

No one would ever get spike again, rofl

I spike all the time without taking damage from a non-downed source. The point is to make spiking/rezzing a more concerted effort. In a big zerg vs zerg fight it is certainly going to make spiking/rezzing extremely hard, but that’s sort of the point.

I have a few suggestions.

• 1) Make Reviving Speed scale based on Healing Power (or some other new stat), so that someone who invests heavily in Support (Including runes and traits) will revive allies orders of magnitude faster then someone with no investment. (Similar to how someone with full Berserkers DPS is orders of magnitude greater then someone who has no investment in any of these stats)

• 2) Reduce the base revival speed for everyone who has no investment in reviving, and make a greater difference between reviving someone who is downed vs defeated, outside combat vs while in combat. (Currently investing in reviving is unimportant because you can already revive extremely quickly with no investment what so ever, whether they are downed or defeated. If it took several minutes to revive somebody in combat when they are defeated, you’d be more incline to revive them when they are downed instead since you can get back to the fight quicker.)

• 3) Introduce a Time Limit on Defeated players, that if they are not revived in say 5 minutes, they fall into a Dead state, and can no longer be revived and must use a Waypoint. (This in conjunction with the above changes would put a high value on reviving quickly, and thus support.) In addition, once revived the time limit refills slowly, so if you die again in quick succession the time limit is wherever it was last at. (or however much as refilled since then)

• 4) While in a Defeated state, you also get a visual effect as your dying. Say, the color drains out and sounds begin to muffle, and slowly black draws in from the edges of the screen until it is all black and silent. (This would counteract dead Scouting, if the effects of being dead is that you cannot see nor hear anything.)

The general idea of all of this is to lower the current base reviving speed, but increase the peaks of reviving so that a support character is innately much faster at reviving, while making the speed in which you revive a valued metric with a time limit, and have a thematic lore friendly way to fix dead scouting.
So not only could we fix/improve death and revival, but improve the role support has as well in all areas of the game.

merkator.9206:

Enenion.8127:

I think rallying is fine, but stomping should be much more permanent. If you’re fighting a larger force, whether it be 2v3 or 20v30, if you can’t wipe all the enemy they can pick their guys right back up and continue as normal. Once you’re truly defeated you should have to waypoint out. This puts much more emphasis on saving someone while they are downed and can help thin out the zergs as they can be affected by attrition. By killing a few members at a time you’d eventually be able to wipe a zerg, but that’s just not possible when they can just res the 2-3 people you killed.

No offense, but that is idiotic. Next time you are in a fight where you are stomped but your side wins, think about how fun it would be to WP and take another 5 minutes to solo run back to the group of people you were fighting with.

It might not be fun for you to run back, but it’s also not fun for the people who lost the fight to know that their actions had absolutely no impact on your group. Defeat should matter during a fight and it can’t as long as players can undo all your hard work by pressing F once the battle is over.

Sure, you may kill half of a group but as long as the other half survives the battle was meaningless. The living half can bring the other half back and when you respawn you’ll be facing the entire group again, like the fight had never happened. I’d much rather have to walk back to the action knowing the enemy zerg felt those losses we gave them.

K U T M.4539:

Distaste.4801:

I would go for the following.

Rally only on spiking.
Spiking gets pushed back by damage.
Downed abilities do not cause the pushback.
Rezzing gets pushed back by damage.
Rezzing applies reveled.

This way if you down an enemy in the middle of the fight they stay downed until either they get rezed, get spiked, or their teammates spike someone. Since damage would push back spiking/rezzing it would be a risk to try and do so in the middle of combat. Pushing back spiking due to damage also counters the stability issue a little bit.

No one would ever get spike again, rofl

Mesmers with distortion would become the heroes of wvw.

Lalangamena.3694:

if you die, all downed enemies that you have tagged in the beginning of the fight will rally

Wouldn’t, or shouldn’t, that be limited to the conditions that were active the moment a player is defeated?

Enenion.8127:

merkator.9206:

Enenion.8127:

I think rallying is fine, but stomping should be much more permanent. If you’re fighting a larger force, whether it be 2v3 or 20v30, if you can’t wipe all the enemy they can pick their guys right back up and continue as normal. Once you’re truly defeated you should have to waypoint out. This puts much more emphasis on saving someone while they are downed and can help thin out the zergs as they can be affected by attrition. By killing a few members at a time you’d eventually be able to wipe a zerg, but that’s just not possible when they can just res the 2-3 people you killed.

No offense, but that is idiotic. Next time you are in a fight where you are stomped but your side wins, think about how fun it would be to WP and take another 5 minutes to solo run back to the group of people you were fighting with.

It might not be fun for you to run back, but it’s also not fun for the people who lost the fight to know that their actions had absolutely no impact on your group. Defeat should matter during a fight and it can’t as long as players can undo all your hard work by pressing F once the battle is over.

Sure, you may kill half of a group but as long as the other half survives the battle was meaningless. The living half can bring the other half back and when you respawn you’ll be facing the entire group again, like the fight had never happened. I’d much rather have to walk back to the action knowing the enemy zerg felt those losses we gave them.

Some classes have better ways than others to avoid stomps (like Ele can avoid pretty much all in heavy fights, compared to engie, that really do not have much to avoid one). I feel it would penalise some classes too much over others, though I understand the point of feeling that your defeat wasn’t vain.

Jocksy.3415:

Some classes have better ways than others to avoid stomps (like Ele can avoid pretty much all in heavy fights, compared to engie, that really do not have much to avoid one). I feel it would penalise some classes too much over others, though I understand the point of feeling that your defeat wasn’t vain.

It’s true that the downed state for some classes is just better than others, but that should be an argument for revamping the downed abilities for those classes rather than the system overall.

Remove the stupid warbanners. That’s all I have to say. It’s not like ele’s will use the glyphs to revive people…

I don’t understand why warriors have everything and and every other class has to comprise…