Guild Wars 2

The Game Slayer.7632:

zinkz.7045:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Nah, conditions were never meant to be a primary source of damage…

Nonsense.

Well if you bothered to read the entire comment, you’d understand the point. Allow me to re-iterate so you can understand.

If you bothered to acquaint yourself with logic you’d realise that me quoting a specific part does not mean I did not read the rest, your “point” is nonsense, condi is just as valid a source of damage has power, which is why since launch you had condi builds/traits/gearsets, you seem to be confusing your personal preference with reality.

zinkz.7045:

The Game Slayer.7632:

zinkz.7045:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Nah, conditions were never meant to be a primary source of damage…

Nonsense.

Well if you bothered to read the entire comment, you’d understand the point. Allow me to re-iterate so you can understand.

If you bothered to acquaint yourself with logic you’d realise that me quoting a specific part does not mean I did not read the rest, your “point” is nonsense, condi is just as valid a source of damage has power, which is why since launch you had condi builds/traits/gearsets, you seem to be confusing your personal preference with reality.

Please don’t bring in logic when you don’t have a handle on it yourself ~

it wasn’t “stealth nerfed”. its right there in the patch notes. stupid clickbait.

Stand The Wall.6987:

it wasn’t “stealth nerfed”. its right there in the patch notes. stupid clickbait.

Lol More like

“I told you guys they would notice! I’ll update the patch notes, so it looks like we just forgot”

Stand The Wall.6987:

it wasn’t “stealth nerfed”. its right there in the patch notes. stupid clickbait.

It was added to the notes after they were released. It was not initially in them.

Guys…
This was a tame change, it could have very easily been keep Lords aswell or worse,
Standardized condition stacks/duration.

or maybe anet was more focus on fixing the game then updating forums =p

morrolan.9608:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

Lol really?

Hope you’re joking.

There are 2 different DPS types in the game. Power and Conditions. Both are meant to kill at the same rate. Just different applications.

They aren’t meant to kill at the same rate. Condis are attritional, its why a lot of condi gear stacks defensive attributes, so they can survive long enough for the condis to work.

I don’t believe this is the case any longer. Conditions have been buffed to the point that a well used condition bomb can down a class or nearly so in a few seconds tops. This is especially true in WvW where confusion uses the PvE damage formula.

OriOri.8724:

morrolan.9608:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

Lol really?

Hope you’re joking.

There are 2 different DPS types in the game. Power and Conditions. Both are meant to kill at the same rate. Just different applications.

They aren’t meant to kill at the same rate. Condis are attritional, its why a lot of condi gear stacks defensive attributes, so they can survive long enough for the condis to work.

I don’t believe this is the case any longer. Conditions have been buffed to the point that a well used condition bomb can down a class or nearly so in a few seconds tops. This is especially true in WvW where confusion uses the PvE damage formula.

Thats poor balancing though. If they truly want condis to kill as quick as power then they need to completely redo all their armor and weapon stat combos.

I have no problems with these changes. The skill is still unblockable, you just have to look closer on what targets your hitting it with.

Was pretty fair of them to make a small change like this and see where it goes, instead of absolutely making it useless. If it’s still OP then maybe they can look at the radius of effect for it too.

As long as I can still slap it on lords. XD

So landing epidemic is now pure luck because boon spam is totally out of control in wvw. At least make epidemic insta cast. How to kitten i can know if enemy get resistance after is start to cast epidemic? It was already hard to land epidemic before because enemy usually lost all condis after you started cast epidemic (of course i play EotM where players actually know how to remove conditions ). Devs probably didn’t even think about this because they don’t play their own game.

Meh instead of nerfing the problem they nerf what ppl cried about… And resistance still remains overpowered to.this day. The only nerf i would agry with to epidemic would be to make it so structures and downed players cannot be epidemic’ed but this was unececary and and highly infuenced by the crybabies…. This is why we cant have nice things.

morrolan.9608:

OriOri.8724:

morrolan.9608:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

Lol really?

Hope you’re joking.

There are 2 different DPS types in the game. Power and Conditions. Both are meant to kill at the same rate. Just different applications.

They aren’t meant to kill at the same rate. Condis are attritional, its why a lot of condi gear stacks defensive attributes, so they can survive long enough for the condis to work.

I don’t believe this is the case any longer. Conditions have been buffed to the point that a well used condition bomb can down a class or nearly so in a few seconds tops. This is especially true in WvW where confusion uses the PvE damage formula.

Thats poor balancing though. If they truly want condis to kill as quick as power then they need to completely redo all their armor and weapon stat combos.

Ye conditions was and should have remained the slow killer some might like it that condis can burst now but thats not healthy to the game imho. There should be a ramp up time for condi to get dangerous giving chnace for counter play pretty much how you can evade power burst but for.condis with cleanses etc. Oh and ofc nerf resistance to balance out that deadlyness nerf ofc.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Conditions were never meant to be stronger than power damage.

Lol really?

Hope you’re joking.

There are 2 different DPS types in the game. Power and Conditions. Both are meant to kill at the same rate. Just different applications.

Both types of damage can have builds in the same catagory such a burst, sustain etc but because of differences in the damage types the kill speed will always be different.

Definatly agree with this nerf. Epi remains powerful but has a form of reliable counterplay now and the cheese aspect relating to siege is gone. More needs to be done for WvW but Its a start and I’m happy anet is taking notice.

This is a dumb change making people who have resistance unable to be hit by epidemic, resistance gets stronger even though it’s far more broken than stab was before the first rework.

They should have limited it to 10 stacks of conditions in WvW, then started reigning in boons so necros can be focused easier making it harder to play with a skill like epidemic on your bar.

Well that’s my opinion anyway.

People crying at this? I watched a few of there’s so called high end gvg matches and all it was, was 2 guilds bunker up like hell, load condis on enemy rev, the epi bomb someone…how pathetic is that lol.

Lol ermagerd kids, this is not a big deal. How many groups have any of you seen running full Rev resistance uptime? Let me help you, only the top groups, the ones that were rolling you all the time anyway. If anything this is a passive buff to warriors for the Zerker stance.

Well this is a start.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

People crying at this? I watched a few of there’s so called high end gvg matches and all it was, was 2 guilds bunker up like hell, load condis on enemy rev, the epi bomb someone…how pathetic is that lol.

Probably wasn’t high end matches if tactic like that works. Probably those guilds who lose in EotM against pugs.

well who cares
cry babies got what they wanted and cry babies gun cry about not knowing that they got what they wanted
go figure

Justine.6351:

Guys…
This was a tame change, it could have very easily been keep Lords aswell or worse,
Standardized condition stacks/duration.

Indeed! Keep lords are still fair game!

https://youtu.be/4LjKG3mrShQ

Only problem is that resistance is too powerful and broken and now getting even more needed. Durability rune is already very very bad and should´t have resistance….
So my option is to remove resistance from durability or maybe better make the boons self only …

I expect another epi nerf in the future after the skilled groups modify their tactics from:

Load rev with condis then epi

to:

Load rev with condis, corrupt boon, then epi

I’m also curious why there wasn’t a change to ghost thief skills, that’s gotten more forum interest than epidemic ever has.

My thoughts on it is that since, Resistance is a buff that prevents/safeguards a player from Conditions, this makes sense, and partially with structures, the reason I say, “Partially” is that structures are non-living constructs, as such, they don’t fall under, “Player” which is what most if not ALL skills are meant to effect. However on the other side, conditions being spread that would effect a structure such as, Burning/Ice should be transferable by Epidemic, but it is what it is.

Also, nerfing a skill like Epidemic should encourage buffs to other skills to make them a viable alternative so people include them in their builds.

You were already corrupting boons before epi if you really wanted it to be effective. This just means you have to do it better.

Nah, it just means you are even more depending on luck.
Most people still claim it was easy “to apply” which is correct if you talk about siege or keep lords. In any other case it wasn’t.
How many successful groups were out there that could destroy groups on the same skill level with epi?
I don’t know many.

To be successful with epi it always was important to find the right target, to position yourself correct (relatively to the target), to wait for the condition cleanse and to coordinate with your team before you epi (one epi going off does nothing).
While at this you still have to watch your targets health so it doesn’t go down while you cast and there is still latency involved what is especially on NA a big problem for a majority of players.
While as a potential epi target you have to care about cleansing and notice how many conditions are on you.

With the change it’s even more luck based because it won’t work when someone receives resistance in your cast time.
And due to the availability of resistance and the great numbers of revs it’s even more easier to avoid.

Ann Jay.2950:

Justine.6351:

Guys…
This was a tame change, it could have very easily been keep Lords aswell or worse,
Standardized condition stacks/duration.

Indeed! Keep lords are still fair game!

https://youtu.be/4LjKG3mrShQ

Ya yb loves their epi. For them the gameplay is as compelling as arrow carts. Strange they don’t field more longbow rangers. I will put a vid on my channel of what happens to them when they run less than 30 at ocx ;-)

I would have been nice to see a slight reduction to epi cast time with this change. Now I’ll just have to be a bit more cautious with my epis. Oh well…

So you got to corrupt boon before you epi. Soo much harder.

I realy think Resistance should work more like a protection as a -% taking from condi and not a full condis no longer effect you. At the same time i think a lot of condi removal skill should have a few sec of this effect. Also dimon skin should have this on auras for ele.

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

And about resistance… is strong? YES, but can be corrupted or have a counterplay, but epidemic on the previous state had no counterplay.

I dont know jet if this change is the one that the skill needs to be balanced, but at the first moment looks fine to me, at least gives you a counter play wich is fair.

I agree, I think it is good, that they reacted so fast and addressed a least a part of the epi-problem in wvw and they didn’t wait for another balance patch in half a year. That you could just stack conditions on siege and then kill everyone when they came near the siege was completely insane.

The problem may not be solved for downed players and champions, that still can be used to stack conditions on them for epi-bombing zergs but I think it is a good change. Btw I am playing necro most of the time in wvw, but the epi-bombs were completely out of balance and dominated the fights. Now it will be less crucial at least, it is still highly unbalanced compared to other skills in a condi-zerg, because it allows you to multiply not only your conditions but the conditions all of your teammates apply, but at least now it needs more skill to pull it off.

The effect in siege seems perfectly reasonable.

However the other part of the change is much more a buff to resistance than it is a nerf to epidemic.

Resistance should’ve been a “here’s a couple of seconds to get your condi clears off” but it’s become a be-all-end-all. To the extent people are objecting to having to take condi clears to deal with condis.

As it stands resistance needs to be available to more classes, possibly in place of some condi clears

However I’m concerned about how strong condi builds might become to compensate for having enemies having 100% damage reduction. Particularly with new elite specs.

Alternatively, resistance needs changing to condi damage and condi duration reduction, which changes the nature of resistance considerably ( soft CC’s taking effect).

ApaWanka.2698:

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

And about resistance… is strong? YES, but can be corrupted or have a counterplay, but epidemic on the previous state had no counterplay.

I dont know jet if this change is the one that the skill needs to be balanced, but at the first moment looks fine to me, at least gives you a counter play wich is fair.

There was good counter play. Wait that necro start to cast epidemic and cleanse conditions.

Lahmia.2193:

It is capped at 25 stacks. Also it makes you wonder why epidemic hasn’t been part of wvw meta, despite being the same for 2 years.

It is not capped in WvW (unless they stealth nerfed it in the last patch). Besides a single a 25 stack of any damaging conditions is a lot of DPS across 5 players. Add on that it copies ALL conditions.

As noted above Epi became stronger as the meta switched from Power to Condi. When a few players were running condi builds it wasn’t as effective. Now at least in small scale condi builds dominate. Epi also feeds itself. The more Necros used it, the stronger the skill became in the meta.

Straegen.2938:

Lahmia.2193:

It is capped at 25 stacks. Also it makes you wonder why epidemic hasn’t been part of wvw meta, despite being the same for 2 years.

It is not capped in WvW (unless they stealth nerfed it in the last patch). Besides a single a 25 stack of any damaging conditions is a lot of DPS across 5 players. Add on that it copies ALL conditions.

As noted above Epi became stronger as the meta switched from Power to Condi. When a few players were running condi builds it wasn’t as effective. Now at least in small scale condi builds dominate. Epi also feeds itself. The more Necros used it, the stronger the skill became in the meta.

It’s also because Boon meta (with Resistance, F5 traited and Durability Runes) dominated when Chronos could replicate across multiple people at once over and over again with low effort. That gave plenty of time for Mallyx Revenants (and shout cleansing Guards and Eles and others) to mass clear conditions from allies.

Artaz.3819:

It’s also because Boon meta (with Resistance, F5 traited and Durability Runes) dominated when Chronos could replicate across multiple people at once over and over again with low effort. That gave plenty of time for Mallyx Revenants (and shout cleansing Guards and Eles and others) to mass clear conditions from allies.

Agreed. It really wasn’t one thing that created the issue but a combination of changes that led us here. Now that the cat is out of the bag it is hard to not run with it because of its effectiveness .

Straegen.2938:

Lahmia.2193:

It is capped at 25 stacks. Also it makes you wonder why epidemic hasn’t been part of wvw meta, despite being the same for 2 years.

It is not capped in WvW (unless they stealth nerfed it in the last patch). Besides a single a 25 stack of any damaging conditions is a lot of DPS across 5 players. Add on that it copies ALL conditions.

As noted above Epi became stronger as the meta switched from Power to Condi. When a few players were running condi builds it wasn’t as effective. Now at least in small scale condi builds dominate. Epi also feeds itself. The more Necros used it, the stronger the skill became in the meta.

Nice picture. Very pretty that GH arena floor.

Oh right, thats a PvE flagged map, not WvW.

However if it is copying more than 25 stacks of condis per epi anywhere.. That does need a fix..

They could deal with both these issues fairly easily- make resistance a percentage reduction and duration reduction of conditions, so that there are less stacks floating around for the necro to bounce epi around.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Straegen.2938:

Lahmia.2193:

It is capped at 25 stacks. Also it makes you wonder why epidemic hasn’t been part of wvw meta, despite being the same for 2 years.

It is not capped in WvW (unless they stealth nerfed it in the last patch). Besides a single a 25 stack of any damaging conditions is a lot of DPS across 5 players. Add on that it copies ALL conditions.

As noted above Epi became stronger as the meta switched from Power to Condi. When a few players were running condi builds it wasn’t as effective. Now at least in small scale condi builds dominate. Epi also feeds itself. The more Necros used it, the stronger the skill became in the meta.

Nice picture. Very pretty that GH arena floor.

Oh right, thats a PvE flagged map, not WvW.

However if it is copying more than 25 stacks of condis per epi anywhere.. That does need a fix..

It is not doing more than 25 stacks of condi anywhere. It is capped at 25 in ALL gamemodes. That picture is likely 2 epidemics cast on a single player. The player that had epi cast on them was likely hit by 2 guardians using purging flames, 1 or 2 mesmers (I don’t know how much confusion they can stack, I don’ play mes) then they had 1 bleed and 1 poison and 7 vuln.

ApaWanka.2698:

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

That guard had contemplation of purity and it was off cooldown, he could have lived.

Also what caused him to die so fast was the 25 stacks of burn, which certainly came from burn guards, and burn guardian happens to be the exact class that the QQ’ing guy in the video was playing.
The irony.

Does that rev in their party not know what pain absorption does?

Not only that, but the driver decided he didn’t need to clear conditions off the necromancer in his group. Saved purging flames for the next round I assume.

Osu.6307:

Does that rev in their party not know what pain absorption does?

Not every one likes to be foces into playing one way kind of what all the argument is about at its core. Not every rev finds it fun to spam one skill over and over you would be better off duel boxing a rev with this skill then playing one your self. How boring must it be to be a rev who MUST only use pain absorption and if they do any thing else they are wasting energy and letting there team down.
Condi still not fixed but this is the right path to fixing it all though it makes rev life very very boring (keep in mind rev was doing this before hand).

Jski.6180:

Osu.6307:

Does that rev in their party not know what pain absorption does?

Not every one likes to be foces into playing one way kind of what all the argument is about at its core. Not every rev finds it fun to spam one skill over and over you would be better off duel boxing a rev with this skill then playing one your self. How boring must it be to be a rev who MUST only use pain absorption and if they do any thing else they are wasting energy and letting there team down.
Condi still not fixed but this is the right path to fixing it all though it makes rev life very very boring (keep in mind rev was doing this before hand).

Go healer instead. I found it really fun.

I wanna play condi power longbow shortbow hybrid ranger. Please nerf all other classes so i can play it.

Junkpile.7439:

I wanna play condi power longbow shortbow hybrid ranger. Please nerf all other classes so i can play it.

There’s an anet employee that already plays that, so nothing stopping you from doing so as well. :P

All the cry babies who didn’t want to run proper builds, bother with group comp, get organized, join a squad or get into comms won out.

ApaWanka.2698:

This is why Epidemic was nerfed. A single skill with 13s CD should not be able to do this.

https://youtu.be/fuDNlqEHvzI

U cant do nothing against that. Almost no visual effect and 13s CD. Old necrobomb had 32s/40s CD and visual effect…. Epidemic was insane.

And about resistance… is strong? YES, but can be corrupted or have a counterplay, but epidemic on the previous state had no counterplay.

I dont know jet if this change is the one that the skill needs to be balanced, but at the first moment looks fine to me, at least gives you a counter play wich is fair.

Again, all the bad players won, but here you go:

1) Epi has a huge tell. There’s giant swirling black stuff that appears over you, then the condis don’t even spread for 1 second after that. If you idiots can’t see that, then change your graphics. I see in your video that you have effect LoD checked, so you aren’t gonna see kitten. I guess all the other cry babies are doing the same thing. Duh, of course you can’t see the tell.

2, I watch that video, and your rev didn’t pop pain absorption before the condis got stacked, so he failed. If he did do that, then you guys would have suffered 0 damage.

3. Your guards (you only had 1 in your party) and other classes weren’t cleansing enough. All those condis that got eppied were on someone. That never should have happened.

So, they just outplayed you. Cry some more to Anet so you might actually win a fight.

Nerf resistance to a damage and duration % reduction, while simultaneously making it more accessible to more classes.
Water ele, blood necro, and engi ( maybe via med kit) seem like prime candidates for access to it to me. Maybe traited ranger water spirit.
Alternatively remove the ability to apply resistance to others – but that just feels bad.

runes + food + resistance could yield very high duration reductions this way. While still leaving condi cleanses as an actual worthwhile skill to bring ( now resistance totally overshadows them).