Guild Wars 2

Hope they quit … tired of seeing hammer warrior trains a mile long ruining WvW for everyone it was intended for.

Stormleaf.1769:

There is a significant difference between a minor, blanket increase in stats and forbidding an enemy from equipping accessories altogether. I understand the spirit of what you meant, but that is a ridiculously silly comparison to make.

There are two ways to look at this;
Another server having orbs means you cannot simultaneously have that orb. By taking that orb, yes, they are depriving you of stats.
In a relative environment, stats that another guy has that you don’t may as well be a stat dock. There’s a minor difference in the percentages, as the stat dock is slightly harsher than the stat boost is beneficial, but they still produce a roughly similar difference.

The thing is… 150 stat points is, in most cases, insignificant. Assuming you have all the buffs at all times (which has been exceedingly rare so far), you’ll be maybe 5% stronger than your opponent, give or take. If you die to a thief in two backstabs without the buff, you’ll still die in two backstabs. If you kill someone in ten hits without the buff, you might kill them in nine with the buff. In the vast majority of cases, people aren’t winning or losing fights by the margin provided with bloodlust, and that is why it’s insignificant. People just want an excuse for losing.

Well we’ve done the math later in the page but yes there’s a distinct difference between stats and EHP/output. A 15% increase in output stats is more than a 15% increase in output. A 15% increase in defensive stats is more than a 15% increase in EHP.

The buff is also applied to minions. A minor bonus, but it’s still extra scaling that wasn’t there before, and zombies certainly don’t mind hitting harder. It’s also a benefit that gear can never give.

Regardless of that… So many people in WvW don’t use food or other such bonuses, despite the fact that they can. Plenty still run around in rares or exotics, when others are using ascended. When you encountered such a person prior to this week’s patch, did it completely ruin the game for you? Did you avoid the fight? Did you think “this game sucks, I should quit”? If people never reacted with outrage to those situations, I can’t exactly take it seriously when they scream about this one, considering it’s virtually the same issue.

Well yeah. I’m one of those people, so saying people without food/stones ruin the game would be rather hypocritical of me. However, food, stones and even GK/DAG are different on two fundamental levels from orbs.

You make a personal choice to get food/stones/GK/DAG. This gives you the ability to opt out of them, and it means that you are setting yourself at a handicap if you choose not to use them- An entirely optional handicap. Want to be on an even footing? Spend a bit of silver at the trading post. GK/DAG’s a bit worse, and… Well, guess what people were whining about before this patch hit.

They are non-exclusive. If you have food, you can chow down and the other dude can suck some delicious stuff down his facehole and you’ll be on an even footing again. Individual orbs cannot be simultaneously held by both servers.

Orbs are neither of these. In a worst-case scenario, 899 people are making the decision for you. If you have 3 orbs and the other server doesn’t, you have no recourse to making your fights feel valid in any way.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7790547712/h9A1455A4/

MomentofWeakness.1246:

Stay in the game man, I enjoyed fighting your guild today near SMC. Although you used a lot of evasive maneuvering

Haha yeahhh we did do a bit of evasive maneuvering. Idk how many it looked like we had, but we were running our typical tagless 25ish so for the most part pugs weren’t around us. I know they found us on our way to QL though so I can understand if it seemed like we had more. You guys did have some massive numbers though :P Didn’t get the siege inside SMC built quick enough to have a chance at you guys but still an entertaining night given all the circumstances.

Skaven Zverov.2984:

And, did we threat to quit the game? Those threats are elitist egoistic crap, and you cannot turn it other way. If you do not like it, do not play it. Simple as that. So, they said it will not be grindy, but it is. I do not like grindy games, but you do not see me here having my ego through the roof and stating this bullcrap. I am still playing the game, and love more stuff than i hate, and you do not see me going:" CHANGE THAT AND THAT OR MY GUILD WILL LEAVE". <<<< again, ELITIST attitude.

How the hell did you conclude that guilds against this change are egotistical elitists? I’m not threatening to quit, look at my second post on this thread. I haven’t shouted or screamed and have been civil. Try to chill out and read the posts before your posts derail this.

Gandalf The Grey.1058:

I find it amusing that all you people do is threaten to quit but don’t. I am taking a LONG break from this game, maybe play once a month or log on to say Hi to friends. Needless to say, I think the people who are frustrated need to just leave for awhile and take a break too. If you see that the game is still broken and neglected, keep playing like I do, once a month maybe. There is more to life than this game, I see your passion but, to a certain extend. Imagine if ANET ran the Government, seems like it now, but sooner or later there will be an uprising and things will change.

Again, guilds aren’t threatening anything. Read my second post too.

“As a guild leader, you are highly invested in the game in which your guild currently plays. You aren’t afforded the luxury of hopping from game to game at any moment. This question was purely to see if it really takes the WvW Guilds to stop playing to get their attention that this orb’s stat buff mechanic needs completely changed or removed.”

I assume you aren’t a competitive player that has invested much into a guild. The 66 players in my guild have worked hard towards WvW and we aren’t afforded the luxuries of being fairweathers. Competitive guilds are either all in, or all out.

Littlefeather.8623:

Im not gonna read through all the garbage on this thread against the patch, but I will point out that:

IT ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON TO BACK CAP / DECAP / CAP a point.

If you are so serious about WvW, why dont you take 1 person from your guild (who enjoys PvP) and let them do the capping…One person, your zerg spamming #1 will not miss one person.

Maybe you should read through “all the garbage”. Your post is irrelevant to the issues in WvW. My third post: “The difference is both sides could choose to have or not have it. For the orb buff, its either you have it, or they have it, and neither side can choose not to have it. Please stop posting here if you are going to derail this thread.”

You’re right, we don’t want enemies to have the buff. You’re completely wrong in thinking that we actually want it, or thinking that all of your allies want you to get them the buff too.

timidobserver.7925:

The primary leaders of this whining are GvG guilds/players, which I know the guild of the OP of this thread is a member of a guild that GvGs(I was in a GvG against them recently.) To solve that all Anet had to do was put a neutral zone behind south camp, but instead they decided to be pricks about it. Now you have all of the GvG community raging all over the forums and threatening to quit in mass. It would have been a simple solution that wouldn’t have hurt anything.

Here’s a stat for you. In the past year my guild has done nine GvGs (official and unofficial): Pro, vH, Agg, EK, RE, OnS, RoT, EP, and CERN. That’s 9 nights that my guild did a GvG. You know what we did before that?

World vs World.

You know what we did after that?

World vs World.

You know what we did a large majority of the other 380 days when we weren’t doing a GvG?

World vs World.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

“Insignificant” is not what I would call 4 ascended trinkets’ worth of stats.

Take the inverse of Bloodlust; if the other realms could get a bonus which, upon getting it, would let them go “nope, you’re not allowed to equip any accessories”, would that shed any light on it for you then? Can you understand why they might think that completely invalidates WvW? Because that is 2/3rds of what this system does. It’s even worse than everything else that imbalances WvW because you can’t both have those orb bonuses at the same time; if someone else is eating, you can eat too. If someone else has stacked Guard Killer, you can stack Guard Killer. If you’re outmanned and you want to roam for some fun fights? Enjoy your (even more) uphill battle.

There is a significant difference between a minor, blanket increase in stats and forbidding an enemy from equipping accessories altogether. I understand the spirit of what you meant, but that is a ridiculously silly comparison to make.

The thing is… 150 stat points is, in most cases, insignificant. Assuming you have all the buffs at all times (which has been exceedingly rare so far), you’ll be maybe 5% stronger than your opponent, give or take. If you die to a thief in two backstabs without the buff, you’ll still die in two backstabs. If you kill someone in ten hits without the buff, you might kill them in nine with the buff. In the vast majority of cases, people aren’t winning or losing fights by the margin provided with bloodlust, and that is why it’s insignificant. People just want an excuse for losing.

Regardless of that… So many people in WvW don’t use food or other such bonuses, despite the fact that they can. Plenty still run around in rares or exotics, when others are using ascended. When you encountered such a person prior to this week’s patch, did it completely ruin the game for you? Did you avoid the fight? Did you think “this game sucks, I should quit”? If people never reacted with outrage to those situations, I can’t exactly take it seriously when they scream about this one, considering it’s virtually the same issue.

Those people without food and wearing crap gear die fast and are no fun to fight.

Drigan.7382 your assumptions are wrong. I don’t care how much you dedicated your time/guild in this game. It’s time wasted when there is no FUTURE of improvement. Great players are already gone to new games.

Skaven Zverov.2984:

Delta Blues.8507:

…

Well, this is not about what they stated…As we all know, ANet has their PR, and as every other game, they will lie. Do you remember manifesto? What lies were there and what is going on now?

And, did we threat to quit the game? Those threats are elitist egoistic crap, and you cannot turn it other way. If you do not like it, do not play it. Simple as that. So, they said it will not be grindy, but it is. I do not like grindy games, but you do not see me here having my ego through the roof and stating this bullcrap. I am still playing the game, and love more stuff than i hate, and you do not see me going:" CHANGE THAT AND THAT OR MY GUILD WILL LEAVE". <<<< again, ELITIST attitude.

I totally didn’t know that having an opinion and stating that it affects your will to play the game was elitist. I’ll keep that in mind.

PS: eyes rolled out of sockets

Here’s the thing guys, if the old bloodlust buff wasn’t hackable. I.e. those flying hackers taking orbs, this blood lust buff would have been the norm.

Because of the change, factoring the bloodlust nodes caused fear to players who are used to the way things area. And because of sacrx video, players who enjoy gvg and openfield are now questioning whether the move from spvp to wvw is really a good idea.

Now, stop. Think for a moment.

Look at those camps, towers, keeps, and smc. WVW, strictly speaking if you fight for PPT, has always been similar to SPVP without the gear cap. The reason why this became so big of an issue, to my mind, is because some guilds can no longer do GVG’s.

YOU STILL CAN DO GVG. Just have to think about those bloodlust stacks, and keep fighting against other guilds in the old wind mill. The problem here is, players like it easy. Not the end of the world guys.

Things got out of proportion. People will quit, and no matter how we argue against them, as long as they justified it in their brain, they can never be convinced that WVW is as it should be.

Surprise surprise guys. WVW is not fair. Coverage will win. But that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be fun. It’s just that players, for whatever game, can’t ever be satisfied. (issue with diablo 3, mass effect 3, resident evil 5 onwards, silent hill etc.)

If you want to enjoy GW2, and play with your friends. Don’t log in the forums. Just play as is, you’ll have so much fun.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

“Insignificant” is not what I would call 4 ascended trinkets’ worth of stats.

Take the inverse of Bloodlust; if the other realms could get a bonus which, upon getting it, would let them go “nope, you’re not allowed to equip any accessories”, would that shed any light on it for you then? Can you understand why they might think that completely invalidates WvW? Because that is 2/3rds of what this system does. It’s even worse than everything else that imbalances WvW because you can’t both have those orb bonuses at the same time; if someone else is eating, you can eat too. If someone else has stacked Guard Killer, you can stack Guard Killer. If you’re outmanned and you want to roam for some fun fights? Enjoy your (even more) uphill battle.

There is a significant difference between a minor, blanket increase in stats and forbidding an enemy from equipping accessories altogether. I understand the spirit of what you meant, but that is a ridiculously silly comparison to make.

The thing is… 150 stat points is, in most cases, insignificant. Assuming you have all the buffs at all times (which has been exceedingly rare so far), you’ll be maybe 5% stronger than your opponent, give or take. If you die to a thief in two backstabs without the buff, you’ll still die in two backstabs. If you kill someone in ten hits without the buff, you might kill them in nine with the buff. In the vast majority of cases, people aren’t winning or losing fights by the margin provided with bloodlust, and that is why it’s insignificant. People just want an excuse for losing.

Regardless of that… So many people in WvW don’t use food or other such bonuses, despite the fact that they can. Plenty still run around in rares or exotics, when others are using ascended. When you encountered such a person prior to this week’s patch, did it completely ruin the game for you? Did you avoid the fight? Did you think “this game sucks, I should quit”? If people never reacted with outrage to those situations, I can’t exactly take it seriously when they scream about this one, considering it’s virtually the same issue.

“The game was not perfectly balanced; therefore any additional imbalance must be acceptable.”

The only thing the developers can do is to pair off servers with almost similar coverage against each other (will be difficult because players do transfer from one server to another, sometimes in mass or sometimes one by one). And try to make WVW fun.

No person is obligated or forced to accept the game changes, it is dependent on the individual player.

Sovereign, I don’t mean this as a personal attack because I believe you generally mean well, but I guess you just can’t comprehend why this buff is so bad for us competitive guilds. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to show from your video in your signature. If you stop it at 1:16 it shows you have the orb buff equal to the guy you killed, and regardless, one 1v1 does not have much of anything to do with why people don’t like it. You’re last video with the GvG alternative also shows that you don’t really understand the problem here, as well. (None of that is meant personal)

Many of us bought this game because we were attracted to the large scale combat and variety and competition that WvW brought to GW2. There is no pride in winning a fight when you have the orb buff, and it makes things much harder to take on larger numbers when you don’t. It’s not so much that though even, as someone else said, this buff is the straw that broke the camel’s back. By stopping playing (if that’s what it takes), it’d be in the hopes that Anet realizes they are taking WvW down a completely wrong path and start it back down the right one.

Drigan.7382:

Sovereign, I don’t mean this as a personal attack because I believe you generally mean well, but I guess you just can’t comprehend why this buff is so bad for us competitive guilds. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to show from your video in your signature. If you stop it at 1:16 it shows you have the orb buff equal to the guy you killed, and regardless, one 1v1 does not have much of anything to do with why people don’t like it. You’re last video with the GvG alternative also shows that you don’t really understand the problem here, as well. (None of that is meant personal)

Many of us bought this game because we were attracted to the large scale combat and variety and competition that WvW brought to GW2. There is no pride in winning a fight when you have the orb buff, and it makes things much harder to take on larger numbers when you don’t. It’s not so much that though even, as someone else said, this buff is the straw that broke the camel’s back. By stopping playing (if that’s what it takes), it’d be in the hopes that Anet realizes they are taking WvW down a completely wrong path and start it back down the right one.

My video shows that

1. The server with more coverage wins even with or without the buff.
2. That you can still beat one another even if your opponent has the buff and you don’t, and while I was fighting that thief – we ganked him and eventually I also had the buff, but not at the beginning of the fight, which meant either way, he’s dead.
3. You can still do gvg’s at the usual spot with the usual guys, you just have to time it where both of your servers has the same buffs – and then duke it out (but this time has a limit, where the buffs add to one party or not, both parties now can choose whether to stop the fight or continue it. Or send players and allies to ensure that the buffs remain similar all throughout the borderlands (just a manner of working together with players)
4. And I always end up with a Think; win. because if only players thinked a little bit more, the solution to adapt to the new meta will appear.

On your reply to my post. Thank you, I appreciate your position. And I do hope that the developers can gather ideas from what you guys wish to share.

Even if GVG’s 15v15 or 20v20 isn’t really a part of wvw proper, it’s still a fun way to play gw2, and should be incorporated into the system. That’s a free idea worth 100’s of thousands there.

Drigan.7382:

Do competitive WvW guilds have to stop playing to show you that you need to change it?

They will get far more money from server transfers in the next 2 weeks than they will get from the money the players quitting would have spent in the gem store in the next year. Now they have a source of revenue for the foreseeable future: people changing servers every 7 weeks. With no monthly fees, they have to generate revenue somehow. To think Leagues were created for any other reason is nonsense. If my 14yo son can see how much it will suck to be in anything but the top 3 servers per tier, do you really believe they didn’t see that?

Either that, or they hired the guy who thought changing SWG to FPS would be a great idea.

Sovereign.1093:

My video shows that

1. The server with more coverage wins even with or without the buff.
2. That you can still beat one another even if your opponent has the buff and you don’t, and while I was fighting that thief – we ganked him and eventually I also had the buff, but not at the beginning of the fight, which meant either way, he’s dead.
3. You can still do gvg’s at the usual spot with the usual guys, you just have to time it where both of your servers has the same buffs – and then duke it out (but this time has a limit, where the buffs add to one party or not, both parties now can choose whether to stop the fight or continue it. Or send players and allies to ensure that the buffs remain similar all throughout the borderlands (just a manner of working together with players)
4. And I always end up with a Think; win. because if only players thinked a little bit more, the solution to adapt to the new meta will appear.

On your reply to my post. Thank you, I appreciate your position. And I do hope that the developers can gather ideas from what you guys wish to share.

Even if GVG’s 15v15 or 20v20 isn’t really a part of wvw proper, it’s still a fun way to play gw2, and should be incorporated into the system. That’s a free idea worth 100’s of thousands there.

If I may respond to a couple of your points:

1. Yes, but that’s not the issue. A server that has better coverage can more easily control the capture points for the buff in each borderland, making their players stronger across the board because of coverage alone. This is one of my biggest problems with it because it emphasizes the power of coverage even more. Granted, they are relatively easy to cap (normally just having 3 roamers in the area will be enough on lower tiers), but that means it will be just as easy for an enemy zerg entering your borderlands to cap it from you, and easier for them to maintain with their larger numbers.
2. Again, yes. 1v1 or small group situations, individual player skill can overcome stat advantage. We’ve seen this from the beginning of WvW, just by the nature of players being on uneven ground (gear/food). But, the more players that are involved, the more that stat gap is magnified and begins to have a more meaningful impact. This is especially true in a situation where a smaller, organized group (say 20-25) is trying to take on a 35-40 man zerg. It weakens the power of organization over numbers, while WvW should be about exactly the opposite.

Obviously, that’s just my opinion. Eventually players will either adapt or leave, so it probably matters very little who is “right” or “wrong” about this.

Asquared.4091:

Sovereign.1093:

My video shows that

1. The server with more coverage wins even with or without the buff.
2. That you can still beat one another even if your opponent has the buff and you don’t, and while I was fighting that thief – we ganked him and eventually I also had the buff, but not at the beginning of the fight, which meant either way, he’s dead.
3. You can still do gvg’s at the usual spot with the usual guys, you just have to time it where both of your servers has the same buffs – and then duke it out (but this time has a limit, where the buffs add to one party or not, both parties now can choose whether to stop the fight or continue it. Or send players and allies to ensure that the buffs remain similar all throughout the borderlands (just a manner of working together with players)
4. And I always end up with a Think; win. because if only players thinked a little bit more, the solution to adapt to the new meta will appear.

On your reply to my post. Thank you, I appreciate your position. And I do hope that the developers can gather ideas from what you guys wish to share.

Even if GVG’s 15v15 or 20v20 isn’t really a part of wvw proper, it’s still a fun way to play gw2, and should be incorporated into the system. That’s a free idea worth 100’s of thousands there.

If I may respond to a couple of your points:

1. Yes, but that’s not the issue. A server that has better coverage can more easily control the capture points for the buff in each borderland, making their players stronger across the board because of coverage alone. This is one of my biggest problems with it because it emphasizes the power of coverage even more. Granted, they are relatively easy to cap (normally just having 3 roamers in the area will be enough on lower tiers), but that means it will be just as easy for an enemy zerg entering your borderlands to cap it from you, and easier for them to maintain with their larger numbers.
2. Again, yes. 1v1 or small group situations, individual player skill can overcome stat advantage. We’ve seen this from the beginning of WvW, just by the nature of players being on uneven ground (gear/food). But, the more players that are involved, the more that stat gap is magnified and begins to have a more meaningful impact. This is especially true in a situation where a smaller, organized group (say 20-25) is trying to take on a 35-40 man zerg. It weakens the power of organization over numbers, while WvW should be about exactly the opposite.

Obviously, that’s just my opinion. Eventually players will either adapt or leave, so it probably matters very little who is “right” or “wrong” about this.

On your reply,

1. A big server can, but do they? If yes, it means they really overwhelm the other server, which means it’s pretty much a mismatch. Else, in servers where the coverage is almost near to each other, all three servers fight fore those nodes or just simply ignore them. Since they give little or no reward except for stat boost.

2. If the numbers are fairly equal, a smart commander will send a group of 5 players to recap the borderland buff in their favor if they are lacking in it, or run away and hide in a tower, and keep till more information gives better chance. But yes, it does happen where a group of 20 will fight another group of 20 + or – and then cream the other team because of buffs. Sad to say not all teams think to win.

The potential is there to counter the buff, and pretty much doable since a borderland can only hold so much. And if a server has only a few people, they will probably hole up in their own borderlands or not try at all, but only in the case if they’re mega outnumbered. Or just lack the heart to try.

The real problem is the coverage issue. The bloodlust thing is just an icing on the cake. And the devs can’t control players to which server they’d belong, unless it be mandatory to split people up, which is stupid.

While, most people will claim to want fair fights, I’m pretty sure the non-hypocrytes will definitely choose a server which will win and join such.

On that note, thanks for replying to my post.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

So a +50 – +150 buff is an insignificant bonus to all of those servers from tier 2 down to the next to last tier that are currently blowing out their competition? You are clearly delusional.

Stormleaf.1769:

Ensign.2189:

Stormleaf.1769:

The thing is… 150 stat points is, in most cases, insignificant. Assuming you have all the buffs at all times (which has been exceedingly rare so far), you’ll be maybe 5% stronger than your opponent, give or take.

35%. Three orbs is roughly a 35% increase in strength.

Don’t throw around small numbers if you haven’t even tried to do basic math yet.

What? If I have 2,000 power, a 150 point increase is 7.5%. If I have 25,000 health, a 1,500 point increase is 6%. Even if you’re giving every stat the same weight (which is silly), it’s still way less than 35%. For a character with base stats (meaning 3,664 total), the 900 point bonus from the orbs would only come to a 24.5% increase.

Devon? Is that you?

Harmonizer.4210:

timidobserver.7925:

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

I agree with this. Obviously you have to adjust to new things, but I haven’t had any issues with general WvW play after the update.

The primary leaders of this whining are GvG guilds/players. To solve that all Anet had to do was put a neutral zone behind south camp, but instead they decided to be pricks about it. Now you have all of the GvG community raging all over the forums and threatening to quit in mass. It would have been a simple solution.

I’m a Guild Leader, and we primarily raid WvW. My guild has never GvG’d during the lifetime of GW2…

Your arbitrary statement tries to demean both types of players, the people who GvG and the people who go out there to just WvW, thinking most people on the forums complaining are solely a bunch of GvGers QQing is shortsighted at best.

I haven’t demeaned anyone. I am just pointing out who has done the majority of the complaining. Threatening to quit in mass does qualify as whining, so that is legit.

Given that I both GvG and Raid, demeaning both would be demeaning myself. Pointing out that a large portion of a certain group is doing a ton of complaining isn’t demeaning them.

Drigan.7382:

timidobserver.7925:

The primary leaders of this whining are GvG guilds/players, which I know the guild of the OP of this thread is a member of a guild that GvGs(I was in a GvG against them recently.) To solve that all Anet had to do was put a neutral zone behind south camp, but instead they decided to be pricks about it. Now you have all of the GvG community raging all over the forums and threatening to quit in mass. It would have been a simple solution that wouldn’t have hurt anything.

Here’s a stat for you. In the past year my guild has done nine GvGs (official and unofficial): Pro, vH, Agg, EK, RE, OnS, RoT, EP, and CERN. That’s 9 nights that my guild did a GvG. You know what we did before that?

World vs World.

You know what we did after that?

World vs World.

You know what we did a large majority of the other 380 days when we weren’t doing a GvG?

World vs World.

How does the fact that you WvW sometimes and GvG sometimes effect what I said?

You were probably determined to be upset about the update regardless, but as I said in my post, if they had created a neutral area for GvGs you, and a lot of other people, would probably be a few notches less wound up.

Gamadorn.2659:

I find it adorable that random pve puggers or people who join WvW once in a while come in here and say “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” to the guilds that post on here….

You have to be pve pugger, since most people that come in to WvW and are new and want to be more competitive in WvW, join a guild or make a guild (even if its a small roaming guild with a few buddies), if that’s not you….you are a random person that no one really cares about lol

The fact is, guilds make up 90% of WvW. If they leave. WvW dies on all servers

I feel you bro… and I’m currently debating another extended vacation from the game. My last was 5 months, and when I came back, all they had really managed to do was eliminate culling and add some Wxp rank stuff.

the last couple lines are why people are (threatening) leaving WvW, for everyone saying they’re just being ‘elitist egotistical jerks’.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

“Insignificant” is not what I would call 4 ascended trinkets’ worth of stats.

Take the inverse of Bloodlust; if the other realms could get a bonus which, upon getting it, would let them go “nope, you’re not allowed to equip any accessories”, would that shed any light on it for you then? Can you understand why they might think that completely invalidates WvW? Because that is 2/3rds of what this system does. It’s even worse than everything else that imbalances WvW because you can’t both have those orb bonuses at the same time; if someone else is eating, you can eat too. If someone else has stacked Guard Killer, you can stack Guard Killer. If you’re outmanned and you want to roam for some fun fights? Enjoy your (even more) uphill battle.

There is a significant difference between a minor, blanket increase in stats and forbidding an enemy from equipping accessories altogether. I understand the spirit of what you meant, but that is a ridiculously silly comparison to make.

The thing is… 150 stat points is, in most cases, insignificant. Assuming you have all the buffs at all times (which has been exceedingly rare so far), you’ll be maybe 5% stronger than your opponent, give or take. If you die to a thief in two backstabs without the buff, you’ll still die in two backstabs. If you kill someone in ten hits without the buff, you might kill them in nine with the buff. In the vast majority of cases, people aren’t winning or losing fights by the margin provided with bloodlust, and that is why it’s insignificant. People just want an excuse for losing.

Regardless of that… So many people in WvW don’t use food or other such bonuses, despite the fact that they can. Plenty still run around in rares or exotics, when others are using ascended. When you encountered such a person prior to this week’s patch, did it completely ruin the game for you? Did you avoid the fight? Did you think “this game sucks, I should quit”? If people never reacted with outrage to those situations, I can’t exactly take it seriously when they scream about this one, considering it’s virtually the same issue.

Sorry but this is bullkitten. 150 Points of every stat, is very high. Yes you can kill people without this buff, but it takes much more time. And when two of these can play their classes, and you have an 1vs2, then good night. You will lose. Without bloodlust buff, you have the chance to win. And that’s why 90% of WvW Players are angry. In the WvW Guild I am, most of then doesn’t go into WvW anymore. Some people left the game. If they change bloodlust into MF or something like that they will return.
I am a 99 % WvW Player who don’t play it anymore, until they change it I won’t go into WvWvW. Maybe I look for another game. And that’s what many other Players do, too.

Stormleaf.1769:

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

Er I cannot enjoy it now. The lag makes it unplayable for me. That is honest, legitimate and not in the least disingenuous!

What games have wvwvw just like gw2 before this nonsense?

kefro.9312:

What games have wvwvw just like gw2 before this nonsense?

That’s literally the only advantage GW2 has over the competition right now. WoW has better PvE content. SWTOR has a better story. DOTA/LoL have better small-scale PvP. There’s no analogue readily available for large-scale group combat in the current market, so unfortunately you’re stuck for now, but there are more than a few promising options coming up.

Sovereign.1093:

Drigan.7382:

Sovereign, I don’t mean this as a personal attack because I believe you generally mean well, but I guess you just can’t comprehend why this buff is so bad for us competitive guilds. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to show from your video in your signature. If you stop it at 1:16 it shows you have the orb buff equal to the guy you killed, and regardless, one 1v1 does not have much of anything to do with why people don’t like it. You’re last video with the GvG alternative also shows that you don’t really understand the problem here, as well. (None of that is meant personal)

Many of us bought this game because we were attracted to the large scale combat and variety and competition that WvW brought to GW2. There is no pride in winning a fight when you have the orb buff, and it makes things much harder to take on larger numbers when you don’t. It’s not so much that though even, as someone else said, this buff is the straw that broke the camel’s back. By stopping playing (if that’s what it takes), it’d be in the hopes that Anet realizes they are taking WvW down a completely wrong path and start it back down the right one.

My video shows that

1. The server with more coverage wins even with or without the buff.
2. That you can still beat one another even if your opponent has the buff and you don’t, and while I was fighting that thief – we ganked him and eventually I also had the buff, but not at the beginning of the fight, which meant either way, he’s dead.
3. You can still do gvg’s at the usual spot with the usual guys, you just have to time it where both of your servers has the same buffs – and then duke it out (but this time has a limit, where the buffs add to one party or not, both parties now can choose whether to stop the fight or continue it. Or send players and allies to ensure that the buffs remain similar all throughout the borderlands (just a manner of working together with players)
4. And I always end up with a Think; win. because if only players thinked a little bit more, the solution to adapt to the new meta will appear.

On your reply to my post. Thank you, I appreciate your position. And I do hope that the developers can gather ideas from what you guys wish to share.

Even if GVG’s 15v15 or 20v20 isn’t really a part of wvw proper, it’s still a fun way to play gw2, and should be incorporated into the system. That’s a free idea worth 100’s of thousands there.

Of course it’s still possible to win against the odds, but is it fun?

Winning with the buff doesn’t mean you’re the better player — your opponent was handicapped.

Losing without the buff doesn’t mean you’re the worse player — your opponent had an advantage.

It takes away from the feeling of competitiveness, which is not a good thing.

Sarrs.4831:

kefro.9312:

What games have wvwvw just like gw2 before this nonsense?

That’s literally the only advantage GW2 has over the competition right now. WoW has better PvE content. SWTOR has a better story. DOTA/LoL have better small-scale PvP. There’s no analogue readily available for large-scale group combat in the current market, so unfortunately you’re stuck for now, but there are more than a few promising options coming up.

yup cu is one of those and man i cant wait.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sovereign.1093:

Drigan.7382:

Sovereign, I don’t mean this as a personal attack because I believe you generally mean well, but I guess you just can’t comprehend why this buff is so bad for us competitive guilds. I don’t even understand what you’re trying to show from your video in your signature. If you stop it at 1:16 it shows you have the orb buff equal to the guy you killed, and regardless, one 1v1 does not have much of anything to do with why people don’t like it. You’re last video with the GvG alternative also shows that you don’t really understand the problem here, as well. (None of that is meant personal)

Many of us bought this game because we were attracted to the large scale combat and variety and competition that WvW brought to GW2. There is no pride in winning a fight when you have the orb buff, and it makes things much harder to take on larger numbers when you don’t. It’s not so much that though even, as someone else said, this buff is the straw that broke the camel’s back. By stopping playing (if that’s what it takes), it’d be in the hopes that Anet realizes they are taking WvW down a completely wrong path and start it back down the right one.

My video shows that

1. The server with more coverage wins even with or without the buff.
2. That you can still beat one another even if your opponent has the buff and you don’t, and while I was fighting that thief – we ganked him and eventually I also had the buff, but not at the beginning of the fight, which meant either way, he’s dead.
3. You can still do gvg’s at the usual spot with the usual guys, you just have to time it where both of your servers has the same buffs – and then duke it out (but this time has a limit, where the buffs add to one party or not, both parties now can choose whether to stop the fight or continue it. Or send players and allies to ensure that the buffs remain similar all throughout the borderlands (just a manner of working together with players)
4. And I always end up with a Think; win. because if only players thinked a little bit more, the solution to adapt to the new meta will appear.

On your reply to my post. Thank you, I appreciate your position. And I do hope that the developers can gather ideas from what you guys wish to share.

Even if GVG’s 15v15 or 20v20 isn’t really a part of wvw proper, it’s still a fun way to play gw2, and should be incorporated into the system. That’s a free idea worth 100’s of thousands there.

Of course it’s still possible to win against the odds, but is it fun?

Winning with the buff doesn’t mean you’re the better player — your opponent was handicapped.

Losing without the buff doesn’t mean you’re the worse player — your opponent had an advantage.

It takes away from the feeling of competitiveness, which is not a good thing.

Ty for your reply,

You have to change your perception if you wish to enjoy wvw. That sense of fairness will be a disadvantage even prior to the patch. Since there will always be opportunities to exploit your enemy’s weakness.

Some servers never use superior, and yours does, does that mean they’re not competitive, they are, but you might not see that feeling because your standards are high.

Sometimes your team will be full geared pvt raid team, and your enemy will have squishies and underleveled. Does that mean you’ll let them live and kill you guys? No, must wipe the floor with them.

When you have a group of 5, and you see 2 players, one with an omega knocking at your tower, should you give mercy? Must kill that golem right?

For a fair fight, not much can be said except wait for the bloodlust buffs to equalize among your servers and do a gvg. (or spvp or tpvp or custom pvp)

Else, wvw isn’t really the game for you man. ;3

Either way, I do agree that even if wvw isn’t fair, that feeling of competitiveness is really something that should be encouraged. As for me, that something can be provided by the community of the server.

And as far as I know only WVW in gw2 has the best communities out there. PVE/PVP is the minority.

I sure do hope someone finds a way to hack this revamped orb garbage

Just quit, it won’t get them to fix anything because the major issues can’t be fixed. They’re the foundation in which the game is built on. To top it off their casual friendly philosophy won’t be steering them to make the game enjoyable for any hardcore player anyways so move on and try to forget what the game could’ve been.

Asrok.2193:

Someone made a good post in another thread and said some of us didn’t ask for or want this helping hand not matter how insignificant you think it is they’re still stats that can’t be accounted for by who ever happens to not have the orbs during the fight.

Guilds don’t just fight at windmil, we roam and we look for each other in the lakes. My guild doesn’t fight because all we want is the victory we want the challenging fights against good guilds and bigger numbers that’s where the fun in the game is for me and I’m sure some guilds share a similar mindset. I want to know I outplayed my opponent if I lose I want to know what I did wrong the bloodlust buff makes that very hard to do.

In fights where guids make a point of players having the best gear and food it’s hard to know if we won because we played well or if it was just the bloodlust buff. Imo it cheapens a win and makes it hard to learn from a loss.

This! I don’t understand why the devs don’t get it. It’s not fun to win because of some goofy stat buff, nor is it fun to lose to one.

Odaman.8359:

Just quit, it won’t get them to fix anything because the major issues can’t be fixed. They’re the foundation in which the game is built on. To top it off their casual friendly philosophy won’t be steering them to make the game enjoyable for any hardcore player anyways so move on and try to forget what the game could’ve been.

Depressing for some, but true. Sacrx said in his video that they wanted to make WvW casual from day one, and that continues to be the case here. My theory is that when we enter the museum of MMOs 10 years from now and see the GW2 exhibit, our guide will say, “Nothing to see here but fashion contests, capture points, and mediocre storytelling. C’mon, let’s move along folks.”

They will be measuring numbers at reset as indication.

If you want to have some impact, ask larger guilds to take the reset off, or just not to care about ppt for the reset. If this buff is universally hated as it seems, it shouldn’t be hard to arrange a protest for a single night.

kefro.9312:

What games have wvwvw just like gw2 before this nonsense?

I’m seriously considering going back to the game I was playing prior to GW1. They’ve made a LOT of improvements and offer a robust PvP system. It’s called Knight Online. It’s F2P as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Online#PvP

Imho, Devon just said a lot of crap.

The fact that a “small” minority do come to the forum to state their discontent with the current path WvW is taking, does not mean at all that the rest of the community don’t agree about it (neither the opposite, for what matters). I for once, am the only one in my guild that voice here in the forum, and i know for sure, they agree that this update was bad for WvW.

Some play the game simply because there are no more valid solutions other than Gw2, and that’s could be a reason to why we may not see a big decrease in the numbers, but the discontent is there.

If it’s a fact that the forums are only used by the minorities and it’s also a fact that they simply don’t care if the numbers show otherwise, then, wtf are we doing here? Why don’t you set a online survey like other games have (ig: AION) to see how the WvW community reacts to this?

It’s a complete mistake to assume that this is a small minority without proofs that is in fact a small minority! Or do they know how everyone thinks?

/Cheers

Shocking to read what Devon said.

The people who post on the forums care a lot about what’s going on with the game and what he doesn’t seem to understand is that the canary in the coalmine isn’t a drop in server population but in fact people voicing their concerns on the forums.

If ArenaNet waits until server populations start to drop then they’ve already lost those players to other games.

Stormleaf.1769:

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

From this post and your first post I can assume that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This is the type of response I would expect from an Anet dev that only plays WvW a few hours a week, and does nothing but run around with a zerg. The fact that you think that 150 to all stats is insignificant shows how little you understand about combat mechanics in this game and PvP combat in general. Also your assumption that everyone went from 100% happy with WvW pre-patch to now being 100% kitten ed off shows again how little you know about WvW and this community. There has been a constant string of complaints stemming back for the last 13 months about things that need changing and fixing to WvW, however this was something that has pushed many over the edge with Anet. This patch implemented something that was fought so hard against by literally every single person who cares about even remotely balanced player versus player combat in WvW on any scale. The fact that it was implemented shows how little Anet cares about their core WvW community and how little they understand about balancing a game and its mechanics.

To me this patch is the final nail in the coffin for Anet. I am done playing this game on even a remotely competitive or serious level. It is time to start treating it like the casual game it is and move on to something else that isn’t such a colossal waste of potential. If Anet decides to ever admit to their mistakes and starts making changes that actually reap the massive potential that is WvW and pvp combat in this game, then maybe it will be worth taking seriously again.

If the only way to change the bloodlust mechanic is to not play then whenever you have a mismatch in the upcoming season, the two lower tier servers should just not play. Eventually the higher tier server will have lower participation also. Everyone already knows who is going to win in a match between T1/T2/T3, or T1/T2/T2 so why validate their design direction by playing if you don’t agree with it.

It’s going to be hard to stay away from WvW, but if that’s the only way that the Dev’s will listen then that’s what I’m going to do.

Sovereign.1093:

Here’s the thing guys, if the old bloodlust buff wasn’t hackable. I.e. those flying hackers taking orbs, this blood lust buff would have been the norm.

The official reason Orbs were removed was because of the whole snowballing thing. Hackers and exploits were given as a side-argument to further reinforce the main argument.

Littlefeather.8623:

Im not gonna read through all the garbage on this thread against the patch, but I will point out that:

IT ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON TO BACK CAP / DECAP / CAP a point.

If you are so serious about WvW, why dont you take 1 person from your guild (who enjoys PvP) and let them do the capping…One person, your zerg spamming #1 will not miss one person.

It may only take one person to decap but usually the server with the buff leaves a defender at each point and this defender will have the buff with increased stats. Trying to kill this buffed defender one on one won’t be easy and f you are already outmanned with no buff, probably impossible.

The Bloodlust buff should provide other things rather than 150 stats.

Ideas such as:

1. Supply camps re-supply quicker for camps your server holds
2. Structures require less supply to upgrade while your server holds the buff
3. Maybe siege damage is increased while you hold the buff
4. MF% increased, Badges increased, consumable buffs last longer while buffed, etc.
5. Supply Dolyaks move quicker, carry more supply, are slightly harder to kill if you have the buff

Some examples that could be looked into.

As bad as’ stat orbs are, perplexity runes are still the number 1 issue that needs to be addressed.

(couldn’t put those 2 words together so chucked an apostrophe in, stupid over zealous filter)

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Wow… I knew he said something along those lines, but I always heard it paraphrased.

To actually see what he said is shocking.

What really got me, however, was his use of “make a bunch of noise”. “Noise” doesn’t simply mean “sound”. “Noise” translates moreso to “a sound that is loud, unpleasant, unexpected, or undesired”.

He wants us to voice our opinions, but just quiet enough to not be heard as we are “undesired”. We, in his eyes, as a player-base, are not wanted.

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

i heard that devon and jay wilson went to the same developer skewl

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

Punny.9210:

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

It’s not just a question of “winning” or “losing” with the buff in place.

Before the buff Guilds in blowout matches had the option of GvG for fair competition.

Even leaving GvG out of it a strong Guild could come out and engage in havoc or open field play and know that if they encountered roughly equal numbers in an opposing force they had a good chance in the fight.

Also Roamers or Havoc Groups could go hit Borderlands where they had the Outnumbered Buff knowing that while they would likely die alot they could severely disrupt things without hurting themselves (no armor repairs) or their Server.

But now all that has changed. Roamers caught alone are Stomped and cost their Server 1-3 points. Guilds are going up against opposing forces with +300 to +900 Stats per player advantages (don’t forget it is +50 to ALL Stats per stack).

Before there were still things to fight for, still ways to go out and have fun and feel “successful” regardless of score or PPT in unbalanced matches with unbalanced populations (21/24 Servers in NA though harder to tell in EU).

ANet killed that, and if they don’t react quickly it will kill WvW as well.

there are 5 ruins per map. i don’t really think it’s too hard to take out some of them for your own …… not too mention often time people just leave it die out ….

thing is if u are already blew out its just u have no numbers to do anything anyway.

regardless buff is here or not

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Punny.9210:

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

It’s not just a question of “winning” or “losing” with the buff in place.

Before the buff Guilds in blowout matches had the option of GvG for fair competition.

Even leaving GvG out of it a strong Guild could come out and engage in havoc or open field play and know that if they encountered roughly equal numbers in an opposing force they had a good chance in the fight.

Also Roamers or Havoc Groups could go hit Borderlands where they had the Outnumbered Buff knowing that while they would likely die alot they could severely disrupt things without hurting themselves (no armor repairs) or their Server.

But now all that has changed. Roamers caught alone are Stomped and cost their Server 1-3 points. Guilds are going up against opposing forces with +300 to +900 Stats per player advantages (don’t forget it is +50 to ALL Stats per stack).

Before there were still things to fight for, still ways to go out and have fun and feel “successful” regardless of score or PPT in unbalanced matches with unbalanced populations (21/24 Servers in NA though harder to tell in EU).

ANet killed that, and if they don’t react quickly it will kill WvW as well.

Although i understand your point, this thread is not about the impact of the stat increase to GvG. It’s about their impact to the overall WvW. Stronger servers will get boosted by this, while weaker servers will be penalized by it.

Please don’t derail this thread.