Guild Wars 2

LHound.8964:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Punny.9210:

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

It’s not just a question of “winning” or “losing” with the buff in place.

Before the buff Guilds in blowout matches had the option of GvG for fair competition.

Even leaving GvG out of it a strong Guild could come out and engage in havoc or open field play and know that if they encountered roughly equal numbers in an opposing force they had a good chance in the fight.

Also Roamers or Havoc Groups could go hit Borderlands where they had the Outnumbered Buff knowing that while they would likely die alot they could severely disrupt things without hurting themselves (no armor repairs) or their Server.

But now all that has changed. Roamers caught alone are Stomped and cost their Server 1-3 points. Guilds are going up against opposing forces with +300 to +900 Stats per player advantages (don’t forget it is +50 to ALL Stats per stack).

Before there were still things to fight for, still ways to go out and have fun and feel “successful” regardless of score or PPT in unbalanced matches with unbalanced populations (21/24 Servers in NA though harder to tell in EU).

ANet killed that, and if they don’t react quickly it will kill WvW as well.

Although i understand your point, this thread is not about the impact of the stat increase to GvG. It’s about their impact to the overall WvW. Stronger servers will get boosted by this, while weaker servers will be penalized by it.

Please don’t derail this thread.

If you are going to make a personal attack on a post against somebody who supports your position, at least learn how to read.

Punny.9210:

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

Yeah, so lets just give the winning team arrow carts that do 4x damage and golems with 4x health because hey, they’re just going to win anyway, right? Who cares? Let’s continue to make matches even more uneven because its a totally lost cause.

T1 is a totally different world – PPT actually means something, people are actually invested in the weekly scores. In lower tiers, most cases the match is decided at reset. If winning was what mattered, why would anyone on the loosing team bother to play when they’re getting pacmaned? At least before the buff, I could gear up and eat my food/wrench buffs and find some pretty even fights. In 2v2s or 3v3s, giving your opponents a few ascended trinkets worth of stats can make a difference. We can overcome it, but it’s just one more thing, more salt in wound. It’s the opposite of what we need.

Punny.9210:

rfdarko.4639:

Punny.9210:

I know it’s a bad for other servers but it’s pretty good so far in my tier lol.

SoR always play full map blob but this patch force them to split out their blob which help BG a lot because we are consisted a lot of small / roaming guilds…..

I personally would love to keep it like this ….. I’m tired of full map blob …

Of course its fine in T1, you have a nearly even match up. The problem with the bloodlust buff is that it makes blow-outs even worse, and makes even small scale skirmishes imbalanced. It’s great that T1 is having fun with it, but that’s 3/24 of the servers.

I understand but i’m curious You think without bloodlust you would have won the match ? I just feel like if you already lose it’s just not gonna make any different anyway due to the numbers

PPT is not the end all, be all of WvW existence. Servers outside of T1 could still go out and have fun in small groups without being overwhelmed by an already dominating (numbers) server and an added +50 to +150 buff. Some guilds might run 10-15 organized players that could wipe twice their numbers and solo roamers could have a level ground for open field battles 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2 and still enjoy themselves. Being in T1, you really don’t have a clue what it’s like to be the EXTREME underdog in a match based on numbers, now add to the fact you can’t compensate for a huge buff on them as well. This setup is definitely anti-underdog, makes matches more lopsided, discourages them from playing, while encouraging the dominant server even more. Wear the shoes of the underdog for a week under this bloodlust, to get a good feel for it, then come back and give us your opinion then. Regardless of that, the players have overwhelmingly spoken tonight and as a result, there have been FAR LESS numbers in WvW than usual.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

If you are going to make a personal attack on a post against somebody who supports your position, at least learn how to read.

Doesn’t look so much like a personal attack than it does a generally silly comment.

Punny.9210:

there are 5 ruins per map. i don’t really think it’s too hard to take out some of them for your own …… not too mention often time people just leave it die out ….

thing is if u are already blew out its just u have no numbers to do anything anyway.

regardless buff is here or not

T1 servers never get it. T2 right down to the next to last tier, you’re going to have at least 1 server that’s not focusing on PPT. This is ludicrous to think that server is interested in capping ruins to keep a bloodlust buff, that will be taken away almost immediately. It’s pointless and a waste of time. The open field skirmishes between small groups, solo roamers and capping camps and sentrys was sometimes all the current numbers could manage. If all servers were better matched, the buff wouldn’t be an issue at all since it would change hands so much. Anet created the huge difference in server population long ago and created the “bandwagoning” effect by not restricting server transfers more adequately. WvW is now the monster of their own doing. They had a chance to balance this long ago, but neglected to do it.

Totally agree with the things said above.
We have to fight this bloodlust buff, so keep your Voice up in the forums- don’t get demotivated by the nonexistant responses from the devs.

#freehabib2013

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

LHound.8964:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

…
Before the buff Guilds in blowout matches had the option of GvG for fair competition….
.

Although i understand your point, this thread is not about the impact of the stat increase to GvG. It’s about their impact to the overall WvW. Stronger servers will get boosted by this, while weaker servers will be penalized by it.

Please don’t derail this thread.

If you are going to make a personal attack on a post against somebody who supports your position, at least learn how to read.

Who’s making a personal attack?
Your post made an association between GvG and Stat increase (although you covered also the overall WvW problem). As i said previously, although i understand your point, this specific Stat increase problem should not be related any tiny bit towards GvG interaction, and therefore my previous post.

/cheers

LHound.8964:

As i said previously, although i understand your point, this specific Stat increase problem should not be related any tiny bit towards GvG interaction, and therefore my previous post.

/cheers

The title of the thread is “Do Guilds need to quit…” and the OP makes no distinction between the damage Bloodlust does to either PPT or GvG.

Do you honestly believe that “Competitive Guilds” aren’t amongst the most active in both WvW and GvG so that this change is a double insult to them? Are you aware that the whole “GvG Movement” grew out of the fact that Matches are horribly imbalanced and that coverage trumps skill every time?

This thread is about driving Competitive Guilds out of GW2 so my post was most definitely on topic and in no way derailing it.

You may hate Guilds that participate in GvG and feel it has no place in WvW (and personally I agree that both WvW and GvG would be improved it there was a way to do it outside of WvW) but there are a lot of competitive guilds who were participating in it and they are leaving the game over it…

…and that is really bad for both ANet and WvW regardless of your personal opinions on GvG.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Are you aware that the whole “GvG Movement” grew out of the fact that Matches are horribly imbalanced and that coverage trumps skill every time?

Ding ding ding! Fighting 1:4 over and over and over gets boring. It was nice to do some 1:1 fights every now and again.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

of course these type of players cant imagine because they have never had a structured WvW battle they have had a press 1 and blob never know when too put waterfields or static.

for 11 months the game have been fun then suddently a dev decide to shatter everything.

I find some of these post really funny… For one even if the opposing server has all 3 and you are doing a 10 on 10 fight…. it would be easier then a 10 vs 11 fight. I know if you have done any real number of hours in WvW you have fought groups larger then yours and won so if you really want GvG then go to do matches of 8v8 (good ol’ GW1 days)

The other thing is to you “Hardcore guilds that make the world go around”. On my server DarkHaven we had two of our “Best” WvW guilds leave 3 weeks ago. To me I don’t really feel like anything has changed. All that happened is new guilds formed and new commanders came out of the wood works.

Drigan.7382:

Do competitive WvW guilds have to stop playing to show you that you need to change it?

Nothing about WvW is competitive. Apparently ANET wants it to be that way, since everything about their design is about appeasing the non-competitive in the crowd.

Niim.9260:

Drigan.7382:

Do competitive WvW guilds have to stop playing to show you that you need to change it?

Nothing about WvW is competitive. Apparently ANET wants it to be that way, since everything about their design is about appeasing the non-competitive in the crowd.

And that’s just nuts.

Somehow the observation that WvW battles are almost always be unbalanced (different populations, up levels, the impact of better commanding, etc) has turned into a deliberate strategy (power creep through WXP, server buffs, etc.) and its destroying WvW.

YellowFrighten.1208:

I find some of these post really funny… For one even if the opposing server has all 3 and you are doing a 10 on 10 fight…. it would be easier then a 10 vs 11 fight. I know if you have done any real number of hours in WvW you have fought groups larger then yours and won so if you really want GvG then go to do matches of 8v8 (good ol’ GW1 days)

The other thing is to you “Hardcore guilds that make the world go around”. On my server DarkHaven we had two of our “Best” WvW guilds leave 3 weeks ago. To me I don’t really feel like anything has changed. All that happened is new guilds formed and new commanders came out of the wood works.

Sometimes certain guilds and groups of commanders feel like they have to dominate an entire map and sometimes an entire server. When someone outside their little circle wants to tag up and/or run his own guild on the opposite side of the map, all hell breaks loose and a huge childish argument ensues in game and on TS.

Gotta jump in on this one Greens.

I am not a commander, dont wanna be. But the REASON people get mad at multiple tags in WvW is because it causes confusion. The randoms go to the guy that is just trying to lead a small force but wants to tag up for some reason. The guy that WANTS to run the map as commander gives up and tags down and the other guy runs the whole server group into a camp instead of defending Garrison because he is farming WEXP.

If you are gonna tag up… better be ready to be responsible for the WHOLE map and directing the flow of combat.

So if we are only a minority on the forums how are we supposed to give Anet feedback that they will listen to?

I hope its Anet ballsing up this game and not Ncsoft else i dont have very much hope for Wildstar

#freehabib2013

NCsoft for all its faults (it has plenty) has always let ArenaNet do its own thing. During development, for the entire duration of GW1… I am not sure.

What I do know is just before GW2 was released a few of the key players from ArenaNet left the company. I did not worry to much at the time.. but I have a feeling they were really the hear and soul. These were the ex Blizzard guys btw that founded Anet, or at least a few of them were. I think that is the main problem here.

Runty Choir.4893:

So if we are only a minority on the forums how are we supposed to give Anet feedback that they will listen to?

We can give the feedback (or in the case of the Bloodlust buff would that be feedforward?) – it’s up to ANet how well they will listen to it.

ANet are currently finding out what happens when they don’t pay enough attention to the insights and recommendations from one of their forum communities (i.e. they develop changes that don’t work and/or make a part of Gw2 less appealing to players). The test will be how much they learn from this. Fortunately this isn’t the first time they’ve made this mistake, so hopefully they’re able to spot the recurring pattern here.

Ostra.3927:

NCsoft for all its faults (it has plenty) has always let ArenaNet do its own thing. During development, for the entire duration of GW1… I am not sure.

What I do know is just before GW2 was released a few of the key players from ArenaNet left the company. I did not worry to much at the time.. but I have a feeling they were really the hear and soul. These were the ex Blizzard guys btw that founded Anet, or at least a few of them were. I think that is the main problem here.

Any idea where they went?

Zenguy.6421:

Ostra.3927:

NCsoft for all its faults (it has plenty) has always let ArenaNet do its own thing. During development, for the entire duration of GW1… I am not sure.

What I do know is just before GW2 was released a few of the key players from ArenaNet left the company. I did not worry to much at the time.. but I have a feeling they were really the hear and soul. These were the ex Blizzard guys btw that founded Anet, or at least a few of them were. I think that is the main problem here.

Any idea where they went?

Jeff Strain cofounder and driving force behind GW1
http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/08/12/arenanets-co-founder-comments-on-jeff-strains-departure-from-n/

Robert Hauda – Content creator for GW2 during development
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Robert-Hrouda-has-left-Arenanet/page/3#post2727739

ArenaNet employee reviews – bad management and bad intra-communication seem rampant
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

Patrick Wyatt (another founder) went to En Masse to make Tera

Jeff Strain and a few others founded Undead Labs and created State of Decay which is on steam in early access form

Only Mike O’Brian is still around

Ostra.3927:

Gotta jump in on this one Greens.

I am not a commander, dont wanna be. But the REASON people get mad at multiple tags in WvW is because it causes confusion. The randoms go to the guy that is just trying to lead a small force but wants to tag up for some reason. The guy that WANTS to run the map as commander gives up and tags down and the other guy runs the whole server group into a camp instead of defending Garrison because he is farming WEXP.

If you are gonna tag up… better be ready to be responsible for the WHOLE map and directing the flow of combat.

Just so you understand, it wasn’t me that did this, or does this, just an observation while playing. I understand everything you said and I get it. I’ve been in WvW for a LONG time. I guess what I was hinting at is that there are some commanders that more or less refuse to give some of the other guys a chance, and when they finally give in once in a great while, they proceed to ridicule and berate them in map/team chat and sometimes TS. Instead of this behavior, they should groom them, train them and assist them in leading. It benefits the entire server to have multiple trained commanders that can step in and take over at the drop of a hat. Far too often I’ve seen the commanders with overly inflated egos and the “me” syndrome. Most of these types suffer from complex superiority issues, and don’t take constructive criticism very well. I’ve heard commanders berate their zerg, telling them they’re stupid, ect. ect. and it’s like a poison to your server. Too much politics and not enough community cohesiveness will kill an organized server.

I suppose, that based on the evidence we have, that’s more or less what has to happen for there to be any changes. Then again, they might just say “well, nobody plays so why bother?”

Honestly, if at this point the changes that have been made aren’t to your tastes there’s really little reason to stay. Think about it. What are the odds they will suddenly start doing what you want, after all this time? They make me grind with As gear, they make me grind for WXP, and then they make the bloodlust buff. The puzzle pieces are starting to make a rather clear picture.

In fact, I’ve got my crystal ball right here with me, and it provides a vision of the future based on existing trends. Let me take a look into the future… I see…

“Superior Infusion of Might added. Superior Infusions of Might grant 250 Power. You can make this infusion in the Mystic Forge by using 250 Globs of Ectoplasm, 100 Globs of Dark Mattter, 250 Vials of Powerful Blood and 1 Cosmic Essence of the Mists. You can get a Cosmic Essence from the Laurel Vendor for 50 Laurels, 10 Globs of Dark Matter and 100 Gold.”

“New rank points have been added for the Trebuchet Mastery line. With 250 rank points in the mastery, you get the “Patience of a Saint” buff. This buff grants 50 Toughness for every wall you hit. Stacks 5 times."

“Return of the Centaur and Skritt has been released! With this new and exciting addition to WvW, these areas on the Borderlands have been revamped! When the Legendary Centaur Chieftain is killed, it grants the server Protection, Regeneration and Swiftness for 1 hour until he respawns. Killing the Legendary Skritt Queen grants the server 5 stacks of Might, Fury and Retaliation for 1 hour until she respawns.”

This is a post by a dev following the forum outrage:

“We are always concerned about the future of WvW, and would not make an update unless we were confident it was in its best interests. We have metrics showing us that the majority of people are excited about this change. We respect your feedback and will always take it into consideration, but you have to remember that you are only a vocal minority. WvW will never be balanced, and it isn’t intended to be. With this in mind, this update is meant to give small groups something to do that will help their whole server.”

“The Arenanet WvW team has been found a week after their disappearance from Anet HQ. They were found tied to several chairs in an abandoned barnhouse, surrounded by the corpses of rats and decapitated horses. Besides a few bruises and malnutrition, the team was otherwise unharmed. Members of the team were heard muttering random words and phrases, such as: “SHINIES”, “VOCAL MINORITY!”, and “Bloodlust… bloodlust… bloodlust…” They are now undergoing a full psychiatric evaluation."

TainoFuerte.8136:

“Return of the Centaur and Skritt has been released! With this new and exciting addition to WvW, these areas on the Borderlands have been revamped! When the Legendary Centaur Chieftain is killed, it grants the server Protection, Regeneration and Swiftness for 1 hour until he respawns. Killing the Legendary Skritt Queen grants the server 5 stacks of Might, Fury and Retaliation for 1 hour until she respawns.”

Great post and the funniest thing… and saddest. I just told this part (replaced released with announced) to a guildmate and they TOTALLY believed it! Its totally plausible and very possible to happen. THAT is just sad…

Ostra.3927:

NCsoft for all its faults (it has plenty) has always let ArenaNet do its own thing. During development, for the entire duration of GW1… I am not sure.

What I do know is just before GW2 was released a few of the key players from ArenaNet left the company. I did not worry to much at the time.. but I have a feeling they were really the hear and soul. These were the ex Blizzard guys btw that founded Anet, or at least a few of them were. I think that is the main problem here.

The biggest change to this is that NCSoft isn’t was it is back then as it is today since NCSoft was acquired by Nexon Investment a little less than a year ago. Correlate this to when the ascendant gear grind started… refocus on Living Story, disconnect from their manifesto etc.

maybe tinfoil hat material perhaps, but oh well… There’s at least a grain of truth to everything.

I kept thinking something like that happened too but couldnt pull up any evidence cause I forgot who bought NCSoft. I will agree that is probably the biggest problem.

Guild have already stopped playing this game because of older patches and this patch, nothing new with that, and Anet don’t care as they think they got an infinite line with people coming into the game to earn money on. Little did they know that the 10-15 people in my guild that quit the game used around 100-200 dollars a week. (I know that’s not a lot in total, but think about how much they lose when more leave)

Why quit when you can play sPVP all day.

Kimhyuna.1035:

Why quit when you can play sPVP all day.

God i hope this is sarcasm ^^

I don’t think there is anyone willing to spvp all day .. i mean if you want ranks, go Farm in SH. if you want fights or play frogger with zergs go wvw.. if you want to stand on a point all day and run around the same circle across different maps while playing .. by all means .. go spvp and get bored out of your skull with the repetativeness.

I can’t wait to see them tell us that the bloodlust is just fine and everything is working as intended.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Kimhyuna.1035:

Why quit when you can play sPVP all day.

God i hope this is sarcasm ^^

I don’t think there is anyone willing to spvp all day .. i mean if you want ranks, go Farm in SH. if you want fights or play frogger with zergs go wvw.. if you want to stand on a point all day and run around the same circle across different maps while playing .. by all means .. go spvp and get bored out of your skull with the repetativeness.

Could be closer to the truth than intended.

According to leaked patch notes (in the video that cannot be named), Deathmatch and King of the Hill maps are coming to sPvP.

It’s possible sPvP could become the haven for non-grinding WvW’ers.

kribre.9683:

Guild have already stopped playing this game because of older patches and this patch, nothing new with that, and Anet don’t care as they think they got an infinite line with people coming into the game to earn money on. Little did they know that the 10-15 people in my guild that quit the game used around 100-200 dollars a week. (I know that’s not a lot in total, but think about how much they lose when more leave)

FIRE more like The One Per [CENT]

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Yes, Devs said it themselves.
http://i.imgur.com/mjR9txU.jpg?1

What I find interesting about this post is that it’s the opposite of what most businesses (and politicians) think about those that voice their opinion. They take it as these people who are voicing their concerns are only a few, but the number of people who agree with them is far far greater. Most people won’t bother to log into the forums and give feedback, but that in no way means that they are satisfied/happy/etc. Thinking that they are is very naive.

I could be misinterpreting what they meant by this though (and I really hope that’s the case).

That post by Devon is 100% consistent with the changes Anet have made to GW2 this year. I think Devon did us a great favour posting as candidly as he did, because his post is making it very hard for ANet to pretend that isn’t how they’ve been operating.

It’s not that Anet haven’t pay attention to these forums – they clearly have, as evidenced by the fact that they make changes that we’ve requested: e.g. gameplay that rewards multiple groups over monolithic zergs; more opportunities for roamers and small groups; new content in the WvW maps – all things we’ve been asking for.

However, it appears that Anet’s attention to these forums stops once they’ve collected a list of ideas about areas where we want changes. It’s as though, once they’ve got that list, they then ignore anything further we might have to say about the priority or nature of the changes we want. Instead they pick some items off that list that involve new content and go off to develop those according to their own ideas, independent of anything we might have to say on the subject. (This game is over 1yo now, so they shouldn’t still be putting time into getting areas of the game to work – just look at how much new GW2 content Anet have rolled out!) This is why they can deliver a poorly thought out WXP system, some map changes and a game breaking (and now performance killing) buff we’ve been protesting about for months, while ignoring some of our top complaints (e.g. the broken party system, the stone age commander tags).

ANet don’t seem to have recognized that WvW needs work on its foundations and simply piling on new content is only making things worse. The original WvW didn’t need WXP progression, PvP maps or power buffs to make it a success, it already had most of what it needed. What’s been missing are tweaks to the combat, rewards and server systems to make match-ups more interesting and encourage more diverse styles of WvW gameplay; that, and a few QoL changes (most notably to the commander system).

Instead, Anet’s blinkered drive to deliver new content combined with their practice of cherry-picking the forums for ideas for new content and side-lining anything else, has meant that WvW still isn’t working properly at its core. The starkest illustration of this is that Anet are charging blindly into the new WvW leagues their ears firmly stopped up against the now overwhelming cries that those leagues are doom to failure.

The disaster of this latest patch gives Anet an unprecedented opportunity to get off the content treadmill they’re on with WvW and go to work on the underlying problems that are holding back WvW. I hope they take this chance.

players: we need better rewards from wvw, upgrading and siege cost money and blue loot is terrible, just look at PvE, for loot -one hour in PvE is better than one day in wvw
devs: here are new rewards – wxp abilities

players:matchups are some kind of boring, fighting same servers for months, can you adjust glicko?
devs: added RNG to matchups, now look how rank 12 will do against rank 1, it will stabilite population

players:ui need some help, guild groups,party kick, commander colors and commander ui
devs: sorry,we just make new content in editor,but sometimes we might talk about possible future term of dev meeting about dev meeting of possible changes

players: those random matchups are awful, can you at least adjust rng to lower value to it will be +2 ranks max?
devs: we split NA to 2 groups and EU to 3 groups, each server will fight each other at least once, we believe that rank 10 can win against rank 1, just you guys on forums are minority

devs: we will take orbs buff back
players: do not do this, it is horrible mistake
devs: we dont like quaggans and we dont have idea what to put in that place, so buff is comming back

#feelfreetodeletethispostasabusing

Xavi.6591:

Littlefeather.8623:

Im not gonna read through all the garbage on this thread against the patch, but I will point out that:

IT ONLY TAKES ONE PERSON TO BACK CAP / DECAP / CAP a point.

If you are so serious about WvW, why dont you take 1 person from your guild (who enjoys PvP) and let them do the capping…One person, your zerg spamming #1 will not miss one person.

It may only take one person to decap but usually the server with the buff leaves a defender at each point and this defender will have the buff with increased stats. Trying to kill this buffed defender one on one won’t be easy and f you are already outmanned with no buff, probably impossible.

Here’s another fun point; if you have the buff, and are specced into heavy conditions, the second skill on the cannon is pretty hilarious for dropping 130+ point bleeds onto multiple targets for the duration of the fight, and the 2 and 3 skill are increased with your personal condition duration bonus. So if you are holding a point, make sure the person with epic cd/cdur is on the cannon for even more fun.

Zenguy.6421:

That post by Devon is 100% consistent with the changes Anet have made to GW2 this year. I think Devon did us a great favour posting as candidly as he did, because his post is making it very hard for ANet to pretend that isn’t how they’ve been operating.

It’s not that Anet haven’t pay attention to these forums – they clearly have, as evidenced by the fact that they make changes that we’ve requested: e.g. gameplay that rewards multiple groups over monolithic zergs; more opportunities for roamers and small groups; new content in the WvW maps – all things we’ve been asking for.

However, it appears that Anet’s attention to these forums stops once they’ve collected a list of ideas about areas where we want changes. It’s as though, once they’ve got that list, they then ignore anything further we might have to say about the priority or nature of the changes we want. Instead they pick some items off that list that involve new content and go off to develop those according to their own ideas, independent of anything we might have to say on the subject. (This game is over 1yo now, so they shouldn’t still be putting time into getting areas of the game to work – just look at how much new GW2 content Anet have rolled out!) This is why they can deliver a poorly thought out WXP system, some map changes and a game breaking (and now performance killing) buff we’ve been protesting about for months, while ignoring some of our top complaints (e.g. the broken party system, the stone age commander tags).

ANet don’t seem to have recognized that WvW needs work on its foundations and simply piling on new content is only making things worse. The original WvW didn’t need WXP progression, PvP maps or power buffs to make it a success, it already had most of what it needed. What’s been missing are tweaks to the combat, rewards and server systems to make match-ups more interesting and encourage more diverse styles of WvW gameplay; that, and a few QoL changes (most notably to the commander system).

Instead, Anet’s blinkered drive to deliver new content combined with their practice of cherry-picking the forums for ideas for new content and side-lining anything else, has meant that WvW still isn’t working properly at its core. The starkest illustration of this is that Anet are charging blindly into the new WvW leagues their ears firmly stopped up against the now overwhelming cries that those leagues are doom to failure.

The disaster of this latest patch gives Anet an unprecedented opportunity to get off the content treadmill they’re on with WvW and go to work on the underlying problems that are holding back WvW. I hope they take this chance.

Well said…

Lots of us were playing long before the wxp and increased chest drops from champions etc…. (I do like these changes)

WvW in concept is a fantastic idea….the man issue is that there is really no driver behind it. The driver for WvW was supposed to be the point score…however the way the implemented WvW and the 24/7 coverage model and then went about the scoring and matchup methods was flawed from the beginning. So once people realized the score ended up being more about coverage and numbers…they changed how they played…because we realized the score really doesn’t matter at all…thus the GvG creation.

People want to see progression, people want to fight for their server, work with other people etc, but why should they if the other server constantly has more people and blows out the score every week… so regardless of the fact that they say WvW is imbalanced….it NEEDS to have some mechanism to help balance the fights out so they are not dependent solely on coverage and numbers.

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

Very well said.

There is always a danger in taking that “high and mighty/don’t let the door hit you on the way out” attitude after a large and unpopular change is made to how an MMO plays – if you don’t believe me Google “Star Wars Galaxies” and “NGE”

ANet can recover from this, but it is going to take some “personalities” on their side swallowing a lot of pride to fix things… and if you can’t figure out what I’m talking about – here’s a ball… go bounce it.

What is it they need to recover from? Why does someone have to swallow pride?

Articulate to me what the problem is and why it’s a problem without resorting to subjective anecdotes. Demonstrate to people who don’t yet believe there is an issue with undeniable evidence that there is some kind of problem here.

Shiren.9532:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

Very well said.

There is always a danger in taking that “high and mighty/don’t let the door hit you on the way out” attitude after a large and unpopular change is made to how an MMO plays – if you don’t believe me Google “Star Wars Galaxies” and “NGE”

ANet can recover from this, but it is going to take some “personalities” on their side swallowing a lot of pride to fix things… and if you can’t figure out what I’m talking about – here’s a ball… go bounce it.

What is it they need to recover from? Why does someone have to swallow pride?

Articulate to me what the problem is and why it’s a problem without resorting to subjective anecdotes. Demonstrate to people who don’t yet believe there is an issue with undeniable evidence that there is some kind of problem here.

Devon, is that you?!?

Drigan.7382:

Do competitive WvW guilds have to stop playing to show you that you need to change it?

We are not the vocal minority, and it is the competitive WvW guilds that make up the backbone of all server communities. If that is what it takes to actually get your attention, than so be it.

Well according to his now infamous post on the testing forums, yes we should quit for them to listen.

Punny.9210:

there are 5 ruins per map. i don’t really think it’s too hard to take out some of them for your own …… not too mention often time people just leave it die out ….

thing is if u are already blew out its just u have no numbers to do anything anyway.

regardless buff is here or not

When you’re in one of these unbalanced matches, whoever you send, your opponent can send 2 — plus, they have the extra advantage of the buffs.

The bloodlust does make the stronger stronger and the weaker weaker. I tried to defend this for a few days, but meh. I’m giving up that fight. Haha.

It is a fun mechanic if the servers fighting each other are equal in number. Else, it’s pretty much, hide from the enemy zerg, try to cap a camp, and then wp to homebase.

No player wishes to snipe a dolyak for a wvw living. Sorry devs, you’re on your own.

Shiren.9532:

Articulate to me what the problem is and why it’s a problem without resorting to subjective anecdotes. Demonstrate to people who don’t yet believe there is an issue with undeniable evidence that there is some kind of problem here.

There are two primary problems present here:

1. The buffs
The buffs tend to gravitate towards the stacked servers, exaggerating an advantage that they already have. Overall, this reduces the potential for individuals and small groups to impact the outcome of the game. By providing something significant for small groups to fight over, small groups are also the most affected- and therefore, punished- by the buff.

The “on-stomp” portion of the buff actively punishes you for getting killed while roaming, as a majority of roaming kills/deaths are carried out by stomps. One of the main objectives of the Outmanned buff was to eliminate the penalties that might discourage you from participating in a server on which you’re outmanned- Points on stomp bring that discouragement right back.

2. The attitude
By going ahead with implementing this buff, ANet’s basically said that the game is first and foremost theirs by a long margin, and not the players.

This is commendable to a degree; the developers do need to resist some of the player demands in order to maintain the integrity of the game as a whole (if you want to see forum feedback and misinterpreted metrics taken to their extreme, WoW’s just over there, have fun in LFR).

However, by doing this they seem to mistake the players’ priorities with their own. GvG was a fun player project which overall had very little direct negative impact on the game, while also giving the players participating a big draw and regular schedule that was previously somewhat lacking. GvGs are fun things that guilds have at scheduled times- they’re very similar to raiding, when it comes to what benefits it brings to the game. By saying and doing things that show they have little interest in GvG, they’re saying “play our game our way or not at all”- And if a service provider has that attitude towards its customers, it deserves to go out of business. It’s like if the makers of dominos said “you’re not allowed to make rows and then flick them, it destroys the integrity of the game”.

So what do you have at the end of the day? You have a buff that hurts the people that it says it helps while simultaneously cutting out an activity that a lot of people enjoy; people who also make up a significant portion of the dedicated WvW playerbase.

On my server the regular WvW guilds have stopped to WvW totally

Zenguy.6421:

That post by Devon is 100% consistent with the changes Anet have made to GW2 this year. I think Devon did us a great favour posting as candidly as he did, because his post is making it very hard for ANet to pretend that isn’t how they’ve been operating.

It’s not that Anet haven’t pay attention to these forums – they clearly have, as evidenced by the fact that they make changes that we’ve requested: e.g. gameplay that rewards multiple groups over monolithic zergs; more opportunities for roamers and small groups; new content in the WvW maps – all things we’ve been asking for.

However, it appears that Anet’s attention to these forums stops once they’ve collected a list of ideas about areas where we want changes. It’s as though, once they’ve got that list, they then ignore anything further we might have to say about the priority or nature of the changes we want. Instead they pick some items off that list that involve new content and go off to develop those according to their own ideas, independent of anything we might have to say on the subject. (This game is over 1yo now, so they shouldn’t still be putting time into getting areas of the game to work – just look at how much new GW2 content Anet have rolled out!) This is why they can deliver a poorly thought out WXP system, some map changes and a game breaking (and now performance killing) buff we’ve been protesting about for months, while ignoring some of our top complaints (e.g. the broken party system, the stone age commander tags).

ANet don’t seem to have recognized that WvW needs work on its foundations and simply piling on new content is only making things worse. The original WvW didn’t need WXP progression, PvP maps or power buffs to make it a success, it already had most of what it needed. What’s been missing are tweaks to the combat, rewards and server systems to make match-ups more interesting and encourage more diverse styles of WvW gameplay; that, and a few QoL changes (most notably to the commander system).

Instead, Anet’s blinkered drive to deliver new content combined with their practice of cherry-picking the forums for ideas for new content and side-lining anything else, has meant that WvW still isn’t working properly at its core. The starkest illustration of this is that Anet are charging blindly into the new WvW leagues their ears firmly stopped up against the now overwhelming cries that those leagues are doom to failure.

The disaster of this latest patch gives Anet an unprecedented opportunity to get off the content treadmill they’re on with WvW and go to work on the underlying problems that are holding back WvW. I hope they take this chance.

Big +1

What I don’t understand is why someone would willingly put rocks in the way of a healthy and lively, very motivated community in the game.

Those GvG players made their own (not so little) niche all out of nothing, because the game as such still fails to provide any features for real GvG.
But there are enough people enthusiastic enough to organize on their own, make websites for player-managed leaderboards based on good sportsmanship, lots and lots of guilds participating because THIS is the way they want to play.

It is beyond me why such a positive vibe in the playerbase is not getting any official support but rather the opposite.

Stormleaf.1769:

Sarrs.4831:

Stormleaf.1769:

If you find WvW so incredibly unacceptable in its current state that you’re willing to quit en masse, then maybe GW2 just isn’t the game for you? Play the game for what it is right now, not for what you fantasize about it being in the future.

It was the game for them two days ago, and apparently it was the game for 99% of this forum two days ago. It was the game for a not insignificant portion of the WvW-playing playerbase two days ago, as well. If GW2 was never a game that they enjoyed, then maybe I’d agree with you, but that’s not the case.

I find it amusing that the game is suddenly shattered for so many over something as insignificant as a 0-150 point increase in stats. I simply can’t believe that people who honestly and legitimately enjoyed the game prior to the buff are unable to logically enjoy it now. It seems far more likely that they’re simply being disingenuous, for effect.

You cannot understand that this is seen as a move in the WRONG direction? That all it does is pile on the fact that balance in matches was already an issue? This by itself may not be a issue to you, look at the big picture please. A little critical thinking can go a long way, try it some time.

Velkyn.5168:

What I don’t understand is why someone would willingly put rocks in the way of a healthy and lively, very motivated community in the game.

Those GvG players made their own (not so little) niche all out of nothing, because the game as such still fails to provide any features for real GvG.
But there are enough people enthusiastic enough to organize on their own, make websites for player-managed leaderboards based on good sportsmanship, lots and lots of guilds participating because THIS is the way they want to play.

It is beyond me why such a positive vibe in the playerbase is not getting any official support but rather the opposite.

Yeah, Anet’s reaction is a mystery.

But, my theory is they are sticking to their vision of WvW as “casual PvP”.

This was one of their big selling points pre-launch, that WvW was for people who thought they didn’t like PvP. (A big reason for their being no names visible to enemies). So, this attitude prevents them nurturing a hardcore scene like GvG’s.

But, is there any such thing as casual PvP? I thought there might be when WvW launched, but now I’m not so sure. But now I don’t think so.

You need to allow the dedicated layer of players to flourish.

Thrumdi.9216:

Velkyn.5168:

What I don’t understand is why someone would willingly put rocks in the way of a healthy and lively, very motivated community in the game.

Those GvG players made their own (not so little) niche all out of nothing, because the game as such still fails to provide any features for real GvG.
But there are enough people enthusiastic enough to organize on their own, make websites for player-managed leaderboards based on good sportsmanship, lots and lots of guilds participating because THIS is the way they want to play.

It is beyond me why such a positive vibe in the playerbase is not getting any official support but rather the opposite.

Yeah, Anet’s reaction is a mystery.

But, my theory is they are sticking to their vision of WvW as “casual PvP”.

This was one of their big selling points pre-launch, that WvW was for people who thought they didn’t like PvP. (A big reason for their being no names visible to enemies). So, this attitude prevents them nurturing a hardcore scene like GvG’s.

But, is there any such thing as casual PvP? I thought there might be when WvW launched, but now I’m not so sure. But now I don’t think so.

You need to allow the dedicated layer of players to flourish.

Casual PvP isn’t even the issue. Casual PvP means you can log in, go to WvW and have a fun PvP experience without needing to set up a team or being restricted to doing any one thing. But PvP in general requires balance.

To be meaningful it always needs to reward skilled play to be fun for competitive players, while to be casual, it needs to still allow less skilled players to be useful and contribute.

Anti-balance features, whatever they are, that don’t contribute to either of the above, are anti-PvP. Anti-pvp is not casual, it’s just bad. Some of it is unavoidable in this context like population and coverage differences (although it could be mitigated by a meaningful outmanned buff). Some of it is simply introduced by developer stupidity.

Their goal was clearly to motivate more options for PvP in WvW (like roaming/small group) but the implementation actually exacerbated a persistent issue that has plagued WvW from the start: population and coverage differences. Population and coverage differences are the reason PPT is meaningless (and leagues will be too). Average all player actions out over the week and it’s all 99% determined by population and coverage. Not any actions by any individual players or guilds. Why should a server be rewarded for having more population and coverage?

Even worse, why should the stronger server be increasingly rewarded with greater power (snowball)? It’s anti-balance and anti-PvP.

Meanwhile, PPT and now leagues gives the illusion of WvW being “competitive”. What a delusional joke. They can put all their work into making a League system but ultimately it’s as meaningless as it’s foundation: PPT.

Ok so maybe it’s 1% meaningfull (player actions) but it’s 99% meaningless (population/coverage). The foundation won’t change no matter how much polish is put on it.

TL;DR: Basically, you can’t build drastic changes that ignore ignore original problems that were never addressed; and you certainly can’t build drastic changes that make the original problems even worse.

The best feedback you can give ANet is to just not log in to WvW, since that is the only feedback they care about.

This
Anet needs to read this, this and only this.

Velkyn.5168:

What I don’t understand is why someone would willingly put rocks in the way of a healthy and lively, very motivated community in the game.

Those GvG players made their own (not so little) niche all out of nothing, because the game as such still fails to provide any features for real GvG.
But there are enough people enthusiastic enough to organize on their own, make websites for player-managed leaderboards based on good sportsmanship, lots and lots of guilds participating because THIS is the way they want to play.

It is beyond me why such a positive vibe in the playerbase is not getting any official support but rather the opposite.