Guild Wars 2

Why are you so intent on forcing balanced matchups? WvW or any mass PvP/RvR is not centered or focused around and will never have truly balanced forces going against each other. You even just stated arenas, which WvW is not. That is entirely what SPvP is. Balanced matchups in arenas. WvW/RvR in games isn’t fair, and it will never be fair. If you can’t stomach uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you. I’m done with responding anymore because I honestly believe you just can’t grasp the WvW concept and what keeps those of us that have been doing it since day 1 continue to play it.

did OP respond to every single post in here yet!?

i say we vote him for anet community person!!!

Srolo.5208:

Why are you so intent on forcing balanced matchups? WvW or any mass PvP/RvR is not centered or focused around and will never have truly balanced forces going against each other. You even just stated arenas, which WvW is not. That is entirely what SPvP is. Balanced matchups in arenas. WvW/RvR in games isn’t fair, and it will never be fair. If you can’t stomach uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you. I’m done with responding anymore because I honestly believe you just can’t grasp the WvW concept and what keeps those of us that have been doing it since day 1 continue to play it.

I use the term arena for lack of a better term and to illustrate that, I don’t use arena on it’s own. What is WvWvW but a large scale arena/area/battle?

Why are you so focused on keeping unbalanced match-ups? Only way you can win?

Why are you so sure that any mass PVP cannot/should not be focused or centered around truly balanced forces going against each other?

sPvP has its own balance issues and doesn’t compare to the issue at hand with WvWvW – your point is moot.

This description of WvWvW:

uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you.

I’m sorry, where does the term/concept of mass PvP/RvR/WvW imply unbalanced match-ups? Your description implies something broken, unbalanced, incomplete.

Srolo.5208:

I honestly believe you just can’t grasp the WvW concept and what keeps those of us that have been doing it since day 1 continue to play it.

Aww, another assumption, I wonder what else you believe honestly…

Have you even realised that there are fewer and fewer

of us that have been doing it since day 1

or should I assume you are on a large populated server made up of many players that have left low population servers to get on the ‘winning’ side/looking for better match-ups?

Srolo.5208:

WvW/RvR in games isn’t fair, and it will never be fair. If you can’t stomach uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you.

Essentially the same argument Devon made in his now famous statement some time ago. It’s still equally bad though. It is true that WvW cannot achieve the same degree of balance as other, smaller formats – but it is still desirable to aim for the best degree of balance achievable. Machups will never be entirely even, and there’s nothing that will change that. But you can still do your best to ensure that each side is as likely as possible to have an equal amount of force to throw around the map(s). And in that regard there is vast room for improvement.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

did OP respond to every single post in here yet!?

i say we vote him for anet community person!!!

The answer is….no I don’t think so. And as to your vote, you must be nuts! I enjoy collecting infractions.

TBH I try to reply to posts here that are trying to give a meaningful response to the topic question. It’s the best way to create a dialogue about an issue which is important to many players, both for a change and those against a change. Whilst I appreciate a good worded post/reply as to why it shouldn’t change, most of those replies have been largely passive aggressive in nature with their assumptions and suggestions. But oh well, people are people.

ManaCraft.5630:

Srolo.5208:

WvW/RvR in games isn’t fair, and it will never be fair. If you can’t stomach uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you.

Essentially the same argument Devon made in his now famous statement some time ago. It’s still equally bad though. It is true that WvW cannot achieve the same degree of balance as other, smaller formats – but it is still desirable to aim for the best degree of balance achievable. Machups will never be entirely even, and there’s nothing that will change that. But you can still do your best to ensure that each side is as likely as possible to have an equal amount of force to throw around the map(s). And in that regard there is vast room for improvement.

Balance will never be there because of the varying degree of armor/weapon/trinket set ups with runes/sigils as well as trait point allocations. The only way to get balance would be to give everybody the same number of each class with the same gear and trait allocations for those classes. Even then there would still be kittening because of player skill becoming a factor. The side with less skill and teamwork due to varying personalities and differences of views and opinions would be the deciding factor, not to mention the resolve each side has. Then the people on the server who can’t work together as well as the other one would kitten that something else isn’t fair and the cycle continues.

Though having approximately the same number of people toeing off with each other in a fight would give you the closest semblance of balance for WvW, it will never happen because some like to roam, some like to zerg, some like to escort yaks and defend camps and you’ll never be able to force people into doing something they don’t want. In an ideal scenario everybody would have equal numbers doing everything the other server(s) is/are, however this is not how it works in practice and will never work that way. Just because you may have even numbers on the map doesn’t mean that there will still be any semblance of an even fight. There will always be uneven fights with one side having the advantage.

This is why people on servers who have built up a community and work well together are able to get as much done as they do. If you’re on a low tier server with low population and no organization and the people have a general apathy about winning or WvW in general you’re not going to get anything accomplished. Either step up and spend the time trying to build the community and get it working well or find a different server that suits you better.

There’s plenty of people across all leagues that are happy where they’re at and are content with how things perform. It’s the extremely vocal minority that like to go on about how they can’t win and it’s not fair and everything needs to change to give them the best shot possible, yet they’re afforded the same possibilities that the rest of us are. The difference is what you do with it and they typically just don’t want to spend the time and effort putting things together and bettering themselves or the community they play with and would rather complain on the forums about how it’s not fair because it’s the easy thing to do.

Srolo.5208:

ManaCraft.5630:

Srolo.5208:

WvW/RvR in games isn’t fair, and it will never be fair. If you can’t stomach uneven numbers, gear discrepancies or anything like that then these systems of mass PvP/RvR/WvW or whatever you want to call it aren’t for you.

Essentially the same argument Devon made in his now famous statement some time ago. It’s still equally bad though. It is true that WvW cannot achieve the same degree of balance as other, smaller formats – but it is still desirable to aim for the best degree of balance achievable. Machups will never be entirely even, and there’s nothing that will change that. But you can still do your best to ensure that each side is as likely as possible to have an equal amount of force to throw around the map(s). And in that regard there is vast room for improvement.

Balance will never be there because of the varying degree of armor/weapon/trinket set ups with runes/sigils as well as trait point allocations. The only way to get balance would be to give everybody the same number of each class with the same gear and trait allocations for those classes. Even then there would still be kittening because of player skill becoming a factor. The side with less skill and teamwork due to varying personalities and differences of views and opinions would be the deciding factor, not to mention the resolve each side has. Then the people on the server who can’t work together as well as the other one would kitten that something else isn’t fair and the cycle continues.

Though having approximately the same number of people toeing off with each other in a fight would give you the closest semblance of balance for WvW, it will never happen because some like to roam, some like to zerg, some like to escort yaks and defend camps and you’ll never be able to force people into doing something they don’t want. In an ideal scenario everybody would have equal numbers doing everything the other server(s) is/are, however this is not how it works in practice and will never work that way. Just because you may have even numbers on the map doesn’t mean that there will still be any semblance of an even fight. There will always be uneven fights with one side having the advantage.

This is why people on servers who have built up a community and work well together are able to get as much done as they do. If you’re on a low tier server with low population and no organization and the people have a general apathy about winning or WvW in general you’re not going to get anything accomplished. Either step up and spend the time trying to build the community and get it working well or find a different server that suits you better.

There’s plenty of people across all leagues that are happy where they’re at and are content with how things perform. It’s the extremely vocal minority that like to go on about how they can’t win and it’s not fair and everything needs to change to give them the best shot possible, yet they’re afforded the same possibilities that the rest of us are. The difference is what you do with it and they typically just don’t want to spend the time and effort putting things together and bettering themselves or the community they play with and would rather complain on the forums about how it’s not fair because it’s the easy thing to do.

I believe you have it backwards that it is the vocal minority that wants balance. Just look at the thread awhile ago after season one where people are asking for more fair match-ups. You can go about and say how your community works together so well, but numbers are the only true fact that matters. You outnumber your oppenent on the map, you will win beacause you can just take more stuff.

It seems to me that most, not all, the people that do not want more fair matchups are from those servers that are dominating.

Sardonia.8196:

I believe you have it backwards that it is the vocal minority that wants balance. Just look at the thread awhile ago after season one where people are asking for more fair match-ups. You can go about and say how your community works together so well, but numbers are the only true fact that matters. You outnumber your oppenent on the map, you will win beacause you can just take more stuff.

It seems to me that most, not all, the people that do not want more fair matchups are from those servers that are dominating.

Low tier servers will always have a greater discrepancy solely for the fact that their numbers are already low. There is no way to change that without either merging servers or creating an EOTM style WvW system which none of us want and isn’t going to happen anyways. Unless you can think of a way to incentivize an influx of people going to low tier servers this isn’t going to change. 0 gem cost to transfer to low tier servers isn’t going to break up the top servers because the WvW is good there. Once you do that however those that are on low tier servers specifically for the reason that there’s less people will complain. The higher you go in rankings the better and more fair the matches are. Currently things were thrown askew for season 2 with allowing server transfers when servers were already locked in their league. That’s the issue here but there’s nothing that can be done about that or evening out the population and going back to “normal” until the season is over.

Srolo.5208:

Sardonia.8196:

I believe you have it backwards that it is the vocal minority that wants balance. Just look at the thread awhile ago after season one where people are asking for more fair match-ups. You can go about and say how your community works together so well, but numbers are the only true fact that matters. You outnumber your oppenent on the map, you will win beacause you can just take more stuff.

It seems to me that most, not all, the people that do not want more fair matchups are from those servers that are dominating.

Low tier servers will always have a greater discrepancy solely for the fact that their numbers are already low. There is no way to change that without either merging servers or creating an EOTM style WvW system which none of us want and isn’t going to happen anyways. Unless you can think of a way to incentivize an influx of people going to low tier servers this isn’t going to change. 0 gem cost to transfer to low tier servers isn’t going to break up the top servers because the WvW is good there. Once you do that however those that are on low tier servers specifically for the reason that there’s less people will complain. The higher you go in rankings the better and more fair the matches are. Currently things were thrown askew for season 2 with allowing server transfers when servers were already locked in their league. That’s the issue here but there’s nothing that can be done about that or evening out the population and going back to “normal” until the season is over.

Actually it really isn’t as much as issue this time around for transfers mid season, since you get locked out of world for the remainder of the current match and the subsequent match.

As for those that are looking for more “balanced” matches, you too have a transfer button and also have the option to use it. Since you claim that community doesn’t mean much to you, it shouldn’t be a problem yes?

Srolo.5208:

Balance will never be there because of the varying degree of armor/weapon/trinket set ups with runes/sigils as well as trait point allocations. The only way to get balance would be to give everybody the same number of each class with the same gear and trait allocations for those classes. Even then there would still be kittening because of player skill becoming a factor. The side with less skill and teamwork due to varying personalities and differences of views and opinions would be the deciding factor, not to mention the resolve each side has. Then the people on the server who can’t work together as well as the other one would kitten that something else isn’t fair and the cycle continues.

The idea proposed at the very beginning has nothing to do with gear in any way. The idea proposes to address coverage issues over a 24 hour period.

A server with low population coverage issues is basically being forced to watch their hard work go to waste during hours they have no coverage vs a 24 hour coverage server(s). You are also assuming that players won’t choose to do what they like but if I see 2-3 players already escorting a yak, I am not going to stay there, if all camps and towers have enough players in them to defend successfully I will go where I am needed next. You go where you can be of use to your server – that is part of server pride and community that so many have blasted me with.

Srolo.5208:

In an ideal scenario everybody would have equal numbers doing everything the other server(s) is/are, however this is not how it works in practice and will never work that way. Just because you may have even numbers on the map doesn’t mean that there will still be any semblance of an even fight. There will always be uneven fights with one side having the advantage.

Thing is, even if the fight is uneven between the groups that meet, the larger group now has more players committed to that battle meaning the server with the smaller group committed to the battle has more players capping the exposed gaps. However, the larger group is not a blob roflstomping the smaller group, it is a much closer battle that can be won by the smaller group if it has better skill. Now the rewarding factor is not imbalanced population coverage – which is a silly thing to reward – but actual skill.

Srolo.5208:

If you’re on a low tier server with low population and no organization and the people have a general apathy about winning or WvW in general you’re not going to get anything accomplished. Either step up and spend the time trying to build the community and get it working well or find a different server that suits you better.

Did you even bother to consider why there is a general apathy about WvW on lower populated servers? Because they get blobbed! Hallooooo, this what the whole point of this topic is, to resolve imbalance population WvW match-ups with a better system that won’t result in more lower tiered servers popping up and others just disappearing. And how do you propose lower tiered server step up and build a community that lacks players? What do they have to attract them? Nothing, only when ANet offers a free transfer which will guarantee a league season win do players move. Server pride and community has nothing to do with that.

Srolo.5208:

There’s plenty of people across all leagues that are happy where they’re at and are content with how things perform. It’s the extremely vocal minority that like to go on about how they can’t win and it’s not fair and everything needs to change to give them the best shot possible, yet they’re afforded the same possibilities that the rest of us are. The difference is what you do with it and they typically just don’t want to spend the time and effort putting things together and bettering themselves or the community they play with and would rather complain on the forums about how it’s not fair because it’s the easy thing to do.

Again with the assumptions; you assume they don’t want to do anything about it? You assume they don’t want to spend the time and effort putting things together?You assume they don’t want to better themselves as a community? Do you realize that ANet has not given them any way to make these changes? And your answer to this is for them to leave and join another server thus destroying the small community they do have?

I would suggest the “vocal minority” are in fact the well balanced populated servers that have very little to worry about.

Adahilia.3678:

Actually it really isn’t as much as issue this time around for transfers mid season, since you get locked out of world for the remainder of the current match and the subsequent match.

As for those that are looking for more “balanced” matches, you too have a transfer button and also have the option to use it. Since you claim that community doesn’t mean much to you, it shouldn’t be a problem yes?

Think the reward system has been changed for this season…“Your rewarding server will now be the server that you put the most time and effort into.” ~ Devon in an interview. Considering that the season is now 9 weeks long, the week lockout and subsequent match lockout is not as impactful as it could be.

Where is this claim that community doesn’t mean much? If it didn’t mean so much to me for example, do you think I would be here with this topic trying to propose changes that might resolve population imbalances so that low population servers and their communities won’t have to transfer into larger servers just to get to even play a decent WvW match-up?

Myth Shaia.4856:

Again with the assumptions; you assume they don’t want to do anything about it? You assume they don’t want to spend the time and effort putting things together?You assume they don’t want to better themselves as a community? Do you realize that ANet has not given them any way to make these changes? And your answer to this is for them to leave and join another server thus destroying the small community they do have?

I would suggest the “vocal minority” are in fact the well balanced populated servers that have very little to worry about.

lol…oh man…..What’s a “blob” on a low tier, low population server? 20 people? Also, what the kitten does Anet have to do, come knock on your door, ask you out to coffee and then sit down and tell you exactly what you need to do to build community? There are no “tools” needed to build community. It’s called not being a pompous kitten and working with other people on your server. Coordinating with them, inviting new people join and play with you, and stepping up to the plate when the time comes. You’re so blinded by being spoonfed and having your hand held with every little thing that you can’t even coordinate and play nice with others, no wonder you can’t build a community with those social skills. This thread is laughable. Seriously this time, I’m done. I’m going to go enjoy my well populated server, with a strong community with a shared focus and goals. Enjoy kittening just to kitten.

Srolo.5208:

Low tier servers will always have a greater discrepancy solely for the fact that their numbers are already low. There is no way to change that without either merging servers or creating an EOTM style WvW system which none of us want and isn’t going to happen anyways. Unless you can think of a way to incentivize an influx of people going to low tier servers this isn’t going to change. 0 gem cost to transfer to low tier servers isn’t going to break up the top servers because the WvW is good there. Once you do that however those that are on low tier servers specifically for the reason that there’s less people will complain. The higher you go in rankings the better and more fair the matches are. Currently things were thrown askew for season 2 with allowing server transfers when servers were already locked in their league. That’s the issue here but there’s nothing that can be done about that or evening out the population and going back to “normal” until the season is over.

Your statement that WvW is good in the top servers is a matter of opinion. I suppose same blobs vs same blobs week in and week out is good. WvW in the top servers is stale.

A new system where every player in the GW2 population can play with or against every other player will create a far more dynamic and balanced coverage system than what WvW currently is, outside of the top 3 highly over-populated coverage servers.

The changes I suggest allow you as a guild, even as a server to play together still but not necessarily against the same weekly opposition but still against an equal number of opponents. It means you will meet players from different servers to fight against, with different play styles. You can still grow your server, your community, it just means that no-one server is going to be able to steamroll opposition. Essentially the top 3 servers are an imperfect model of what WvW should be. There is no weekly disparity of 200000 points between servers. The score is close because of almost equal coverage. And this is probably why so many T1 players don’t want a change. They know they have it good, but they also have the queues, skill lag, and stale blobbing.

@OP:

I pretty much disagree with all your points.

EotM: That exists for the reason you mentioned. It also gives more casual people a place to go and karma train and maybe get in a few fights.
WvW High Tier: This allows large zerg battles. For those who love seeing clashes of 40v40, this is the place to be.
WvW Lower Tier: Smaller scale fights or more guild only fights.

There is already something for everyone.

Srolo.5208:

lol…oh man…..What’s a “blob” on a low tier, low population server? 20 people? Also, what the kitten does Anet have to do, come knock on your door, ask you out to coffee and then sit down and tell you exactly what you need to do to build community? There are no “tools” needed to build community. It’s called not being a pompous kitten and working with other people on your server. Coordinating with them, inviting new people join and play with you, and stepping up to the plate when the time comes. You’re so blinded by being spoonfed and having your hand held with every little thing that you can’t even coordinate and play nice with others, no wonder you can’t build a community with those social skills. This thread is laughable. Seriously this time, I’m done. I’m going to go enjoy my well populated server, with a strong community with a shared focus and goals. Enjoy kittening just to kitten.

Oooh, less assumptions this time, but more insults. As it appears, a person on a high population server just cannot relate to what is going with the low populated servers or doesn’t care – or may be it is just this player and doesn’t reflect the indifference of what is happening to the game.

Assumptions that low populated server players want to be spoon fed and have hands held and cannot coordinate anything and lack social skills…wow

You don’t know what a blob is? Come on, be brave, transfer to a lower population server, come find out, come experience it first hand…

Myth Shaia.4856:

Adahilia.3678:

Actually it really isn’t as much as issue this time around for transfers mid season, since you get locked out of world for the remainder of the current match and the subsequent match.

As for those that are looking for more “balanced” matches, you too have a transfer button and also have the option to use it. Since you claim that community doesn’t mean much to you, it shouldn’t be a problem yes?

Think the reward system has been changed for this season…“Your rewarding server will now be the server that you put the most time and effort into.” ~ Devon in an interview. Considering that the season is now 9 weeks long, the week lockout and subsequent match lockout is not as impactful as it could be.

Where is this claim that community doesn’t mean much? If it didn’t mean so much to me for example, do you think I would be here with this topic trying to propose changes that might resolve population imbalances so that low population servers and their communities won’t have to transfer into larger servers just to get to even play a decent WvW match-up?

Actually your opening post said it in a nutshell, was about guilds/friends, you didn’t change it until you started getting feedback from those that were opposed to the idea of not being able to play with server mates. From a reply you made on the first page I believe indicated that you are not on a low tier server, yet you want to force your imposed balance upon people who don’t want it. Between this tread and the other that is also being upped much by you, I believe there are a few from those low tier servers that you want to balance that have said as much. They like the low population and would probably no longer want to play the game if the server became more populated.

It very much reminds me of the scene from Rush Hour between Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan, where Tucker says, “Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth?”?

The majority of people who have replied to this tread and the other that is going about say, no they do not want a merge, no they want to keep what they have as far as community, server, etc, etc., yet you continue to pound away at it. As I stated earlier I wish you luck in your lobbying. I feel any further response on my part will continue to deteriorate, as you don’t seem to hear what it is that people have been telling you all day.

style.6173:

@OP:

I pretty much disagree with all your points.

EotM: That exists for the reason you mentioned. It also gives more casual people a place to go and karma train and maybe get in a few fights.
WvW High Tier: This allows large zerg battles. For those who love seeing clashes of 40v40, this is the place to be.
WvW Lower Tier: Smaller scale fights or more guild only fights.

There is already something for everyone.

EotM: casual players….do you even know how much time some players spend in this place? Are they still ‘casual’ players just because they don’t WvWvW? Oh the arrogance. How do you measure casual? The person who doesn’t want to do WvWvW because everywhere his server goes that match-up they are outnumbered 4:1 or more? So instead they go into EotM where they might get a more even match-up?

WvW High Tier: seen enough large zerg battles in both EotM and in lower tiered WvW servers.

The issue at hand here is that of imbalanced population match-ups. Nothing you point out addresses this issue.

Srolo.5208:

Balance will never be there because of the varying degree of armor/weapon/trinket set ups with runes/sigils as well as trait point allocations. The only way to get balance would be to give everybody the same number of each class with the same gear and trait allocations for those classes.

If what we were attempting to implement was an absolute version of balance, sure. Which is why I specifically said that what we’re after here is the best degree of balance achievable. I’m not even remotely interested in a version of the game that is strictly identical for all sides in every imaginable way. That, essentially, is a strawman of your own making.

Srolo.5208:

Even then there would still be kittening because of player skill becoming a factor.

Read the first part of my reply here. Player skill isn’t a problem, it’s part of the solution.

Srolo.5208:

In an ideal scenario everybody would have equal numbers doing everything the other server(s) is/are

No. In an ideal scenario each side will have the same number of players to throw around the map(s) as they please. Beyond that I have zero interest in what players want to do with their time while in WvW. But if each side has the same amount of resources (i.e. players) at their disposal, the side that uses those resources most effectively will win – as it should be.

Srolo.5208:

There’s plenty of people across all leagues that are happy where they’re at and are content with how things perform. It’s the extremely vocal minority that like to go on about how they can’t win and it’s not fair and everything needs to change to give them the best shot possible, yet they’re afforded the same possibilities that the rest of us are.

First, I would be careful about making assumptions about who is or is not a “vocal minority”. Besides, according to A.Net these forums are themselves the vocal minority to begin with, only a fraction of players that play the game actually post here.

Second, it simply isn’t true that all servers have the same potential. It is on balance far easier for higher tier servers to recruit simply because they already have vibrant communities, whereas lower tier servers are locked in a catch 22. It is difficult for them to get more players because there are so few players to begin with. High tier servers tend to find themselves in positive recruitment spirals, lower tier servers tend to find themselves in negative recruitment spirals.

Finally, about the whole community issue, I agree that any solution to population imbalance has to allow for as strong a sense of community as possible. Hence my own reservations about the OP’s proposal that I posted earlier. However, I will say that I believe a lot of people needlessly conflate the terms “server pride” and “community pride”. The latter is what needs to be preserved. Server pride is only really a thing because servers are what we have. If we had alliances, it would be alliance pride instead. The names of our servers are just that – names. It’s our friends that matter to us.

MMOers are concerned with fair. In fact, they are the opposite. They want to be a higher level, have better equipment, more coverage, OP classes, etc. They don’t want equal. Let’s face it, half of them would not be very good if that was the case. If Anet made it even, suicide rates would go up as MMOer learn that only do they lose at life, they can’t even win at a video game.

Adahilia.3678:

Actually your opening post said it in a nutshell, was about guilds/friends, you didn’t change it until you started getting feedback from those that were opposed to the idea of not being able to play with server mates. From a reply you made on the first page I believe indicated that you are not on a low tier server, yet you want to force your imposed balance upon people who don’t want it. Between this tread and the other that is also being upped much by you, I believe there are a few from those low tier servers that you want to balance that have said as much. They like the low population and would probably no longer want to play the game if the server became more populated.

It very much reminds me of the scene from Rush Hour between Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan, where Tucker says, “Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth?”?

The majority of people who have replied to this tread and the other that is going about say, no they do not want a merge, no they want to keep what they have as far as community, server, etc, etc., yet you continue to pound away at it. As I stated earlier I wish you luck in your lobbying. I feel any further response on my part will continue to deteriorate, as you don’t seem to hear what it is that people have been telling you all day.

Aha, so in as much as you assume I don’t care about community by using guilds/friends initially, I will assume that people understand that guilds and friends are usually on the same server as yourself. And how is it wrong to amend an initial suggestion to better reflect replies to a topic question? Further, in what way does that even infer that I don’t care about community?

[quote=3877000;Adahilia.3678:][quote=3877000;Adahilia.3678:]

Ljiona.9142:

MMOers are concerned with fair. In fact, they are the opposite. They want to be a higher level, have better equipment, more coverage, OP classes, etc. They don’t want equal. Let’s face it, half of them would not be very good if that was the case. If Anet made it even, suicide rates would go up as MMOer learn that only do they lose at life, they can’t even win at a video game.

Ahahaha, that is a funny post, I mean that – oh wait can I say that?

So to the OP, your suggestion is to completely revamp the WvW system to remove server identity and create a more “equal playing field”? A couple of questions though since you seem to be so defensive…

What happens if this plan fails? With WvW and Gw2 bleeding players, what happens if this back fires and even more people leave the game? Would a drastic change be worth it?

What happens when say KnT (my guild) queues up with 80 guild members (S2 first resets turn out) and gets put up against and non guilded pug group? What if due to random placement the other “color” doesn’t get some one willing to tag up? Or some one does tag up but is less familiar with the Tier 1 meta that we are going to bring?

Should other guilds from lower tiers be forced (randomly) to fight higher tier guilds? (to clarify, I’m not talking about skill, I’m referring to sheer numbers.) I understand that there is a cap and the system would fill that cap but if a guilded group of 20-25 gets in a match with a guilded group of 50+, would that be fun for every one?

And lastly what makes you think a change like this would be in the best interests of anet? Do you think the time and man power to make such a drastic change would be more profitable for them in the long run? Also do you think it’s enough to keep players in WvW and maybe even bring some back to the game?

Honest questions…

Zikory.6871:

So to the OP, your suggestion is to completely revamp the WvW system to remove server identity and create a more “equal playing field”? A couple of questions though since you seem to be so defensive…

Uhm, no. Nowhere do I say to remove server identity – I mention that it is pretty much irrelevant as it is just something to identify with (it could be an alliance, it could be a faction, etc) and players are more than happy to go stack where they will get the most benefit for themselves and/or where all their friends are.

Defensive? Hmm, have you read the whole thread?

Don’t misinterpret “equal playing field” – your words not mine. What I am proposing is a solution to imbalanced server population match-ups, nothing else.

Zikory.6871:

What happens if this plan fails? With WvW and Gw2 bleeding players, what happens if this back fires and even more people leave the game? Would a drastic change be worth it?

Then nothing would have prevented the inevitable… ANet obviously feels some form of change is worth it, just by introducing EotM to address server queue issues for some players. And I use change here as meaning a new aspect to the game, not meaning that EotM is a change to WvWvW.

Zikory.6871:

What happens when say KnT (my guild) queues up with 80 guild members (S2 first resets turn out) and gets put up against and non guilded pug group? What if due to random placement the other “color” doesn’t get some one willing to tag up? Or some one does tag up but is less familiar with the Tier 1 meta that we are going to bring?

Who says your T1 meta is going to be a valid combat method? The major thing is that you will be up against even numbers, whether you roflstomp them or not will depend on whether it is appropriate to simply blob your way to victory or not. As it will be a different battle system, it will have one would think, different objectives to what everyone is accustomed to in WvWvW. It may have similar ones. All I am suggesting is a possible solution for an even numbered match-up. A new detailed mass PVP battle solution would simply need more than a topic post

Zikory.6871:

Should other guilds from lower tiers be forced (randomly) to fight higher tier guilds? (to clarify, I’m not talking about skill, I’m referring to sheer numbers.) I understand that there is a cap and the system would fill that cap but if a guilded group of 20-25 gets in a match with a guilded group of 50+, would that be fun for every one?

Each battle area/arena/color has a population limit. The battle commences once even numbers between the battle areas/arenas has been detected. Players/guilds/squads can still be assigned into the battle until the population cap is met. Added to that, just like EotM, more instances can be opened up.

To be fair, yes there will be a skill level discrepancy and more than likely simply because these lower tiered server/guilds have not had exposure….don’t forget, we were all noobs at one time or another.

Zikory.6871:

And lastly what makes you think a change like this would be in the best interests of anet? Do you think the time and man power to make such a drastic change would be more profitable for them in the long run? Also do you think it’s enough to keep players in WvW and maybe even bring some back to the game?

They spent enough time on EotM and the Living World story. Players want to be stimulated, kept interested. WvW is stale right now. It needs a shot in the arm. I cannot say that this is what it needs, it is only an idea to create even server population match ups. At the end of the day, players will stay for some form of PVP – as long as they get something equal to the effort they put into it (rewards are purely subjective) – whether they do it in a relaxed or intense fashion.

Whether this will stop players from leaving, I am not psychic but I do believe in minimizing damage. And having come from GW1, I can tell you that after everyone was done with the storyline, many many still stayed on to play GVG, HoH, AB and FA & JQ, not to mention RA and TA – all pvp based from relaxed mode to serious organised mode.

Honest questions…

Further to this though, server size will only matter where you can field numerous large squads over multiple battle areas/arenas – and am sure that code could be put in place to keep same-server groups from playing against each other although that could be interesting too. And where you have multiple server squads all succeeding in achieving whatever point system is put in place, at the end of the season there would still be a server ladder ranking system and bragging rights.

The solution proposed is to find a method of balance population server match ups, not to merge servers, not to destroy server identity which everyone says is so important to them.

By your responses to the last guy, you would still have the same battle imbalances, because the pugs will log off after getting rolled.

Truth is for WvW to work it kind of needs organisation and some permanance. Servers arent arbitray in WvW, they essentially save your teams progress, which allows you to actually be a team

I think your aim isnt really the best, because you are focusing on even numbers by any means, when probably a better solution would be one that tracks and matches groups based more on their populations than their ratings.

I think for WvW to succeed it needs to better define its servers and better regulate them. WvW teams need to get more information and more classification. Now that servers are only really going to be about WvW, anet can make some progress on this front.

Myth Shaia.4856:

To be fair, yes there will be a skill level discrepancy and more than likely simply because these lower tiered server/guilds have not had exposure….don’t forget, we were all noobs at one time or another.

Annnnnnnnnnnd you lost all credibility.

sirflamesword.3896:

Myth Shaia.4856:

To be fair, yes there will be a skill level discrepancy and more than likely simply because these lower tiered server/guilds have not had exposure….don’t forget, we were all noobs at one time or another.

Annnnnnnnnnnd you lost all credibility.

Annnnnnnnnnnd your post is irrelevant and pointless.

phys.7689:

By your responses to the last guy, you would still have the same battle imbalances, because the pugs will log off after getting rolled.

Truth is for WvW to work it kind of needs organisation and some permanance. Servers arent arbitray in WvW, they essentially save your teams progress, which allows you to actually be a team

I think your aim isnt really the best, because you are focusing on even numbers by any means, when probably a better solution would be one that tracks and matches groups based more on their populations than their ratings.

I think for WvW to succeed it needs to better define its servers and better regulate them. WvW teams need to get more information and more classification. Now that servers are only really going to be about WvW, anet can make some progress on this front.

You would have still have total server population imbalances. The battles themselves would not be unbalanced, you would have a battle between 3 equally numbered armies.

Myth Shaia.4856:

Annnnnnnnnnnd your post is irrelevant and pointless.

Just like this whole thread. This idea has come up multiple times and has multiple threads about it, one of which I’m pretty sure is on the front page. This thread should be deleted/merged.

sirflamesword.3896:

Myth Shaia.4856:

Annnnnnnnnnnd your post is irrelevant and pointless.

Just like this whole thread. This idea has come up multiple times and has multiple threads about it, one of which I’m pretty sure is on the front page. This thread should be deleted/merged.

If you bothered to read the whole thread, perhaps you might actually contribute something useful. This thread is about a possible solution to create even server population match-ups.

If as you say this thread and idea has come up multiple times before, it does not mean you are to judge what is meaningless or should be deleted/merged. This is the domain of forum moderators to decide and until then if you have nothing useful to contribute, why bother coming into the thread at all? Nothing else to do, bored of WvWvW already?

quickflash.6314:

/delete thread

Sounds like you are trying to make WvW casual and not competitive. War isn’t fair.

It’s not competitive though, it’s just not. Competitive means equal play on both ends, but you got servers that just have WAY more coverage than others, so some fights end as straight up blowouts.

There needs to be more restrictions against zergballing and night-capping, it just needs it.

Charak.9761:

It’s not competitive though, it’s just not. Competitive means equal play on both ends, but you got servers that just have WAY more coverage than others, so some fights end as straight up blowouts.

There needs to be more restrictions against zergballing and night-capping, it just needs it.

He’s not saying that there doesn’t need to be restrictions on either of those things, but that doesn’t change the fact that the change proposed here won’t do anything to help those, and is in general a really bad idea.

So, consider this topic closed until a moderator does it officially. This is my last hurrah and you can all thank the players that have sent me abusive in-game mail from a forum open to expression and freedom of all ideas to discuss the game and ways to improve it.

A shame players will stoop to that level but oh well there you have it.

Yes we need it just look at EoTM it boring PvE karma train 24/7,no1 def any tower or keep they just dont care…

Everyone complains about fair match ups / it’s numbers not skill.

The truth is people are better than others at games.

My server has had the outmanned buff on eternal most of this week. We still destroy enemy zergs and hold our side. Plus we take sm all the time also.

We might take a beating on off hours but we hold our own.

We have all commanders defend each other , just tonight we fended off a map que in garrison because of quick responses. Left 5 defenders in eternal .. 1 in each tower.

But you won’t accept that as proof. Come up with some complicated explanation why your point is so much better than everyone’s. How anet doesn’t love you, your commanders don’t know what they are doing, wvw is unbalanced.

Had someone tell me today that all commanders are kittens and that commander tags was the worst thing brought into the game. Just garbage

Step up or shut up IMO.

That being said maybe anet can introduce a 20vs20 spvp arena cause that seems to be what you want

quickflash.6314:

Everyone complains about fair match ups / it’s numbers not skill.

The truth is people are better than others at games.

My server has had the outmanned buff on eternal most of this week. We still destroy enemy zergs and hold our side. Plus we take sm all the time also.

We might take a beating on off hours but we hold our own.

We have all commanders defend each other , just tonight we fended off a map que in garrison because of quick responses. Left 5 defenders in eternal .. 1 in each tower.

But you won’t accept that as proof. Come up with some complicated explanation why your point is so much better than everyone’s. How anet doesn’t love you, your commanders don’t know what they are doing, wvw is unbalanced.

Had someone tell me today that all commanders are kittens and that commander tags was the worst thing brought into the game. Just garbage

Step up or shut up IMO.

That being said maybe anet can introduce a 20vs20 spvp arena cause that seems to be what you want

We all know Yaks Bend is the best server number for number though, so it’s an outlier case.

Wvwvw is the only reason I play guild wars I think its a great mode its just sad that its ruined by zerging and population imbalances. The day they change that I can replace league with guild wars

It doesn’t matter if you are stream rolling stacked servers for a couple hours. It doesn’t matter how ‘good’ you think your group is.

If those servers are still beating you by coverage alone, you still lose in the end.

^^

Recruit more guilds

We definitely don’t steam roll
We don’t think we are that good

There is no good answer here

World vs World is a difficult ever changing environment.

You can’t possible factor in all the variables to make fair matchups or a fair system.
Server drama and server moral are a huge part of wvw
Community is also a major factor

I think you should petition for some larger arena

Like AV for those who played WoW. (Which turned into a mad dash for The Lord)

But again it sounds like
WvW just isn’t what you want OP

Myth Shaia.4856:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

did OP respond to every single post in here yet!?

i say we vote him for anet community person!!!

The answer is….no I don’t think so. And as to your vote, you must be nuts! I enjoy collecting infractions.

TBH I try to reply to posts here that are trying to give a meaningful response to the topic question. It’s the best way to create a dialogue about an issue which is important to many players, both for a change and those against a change. Whilst I appreciate a good worded post/reply as to why it shouldn’t change, most of those replies have been largely passive aggressive in nature with their assumptions and suggestions. But oh well, people are people.

for dialogue you actually need to listen what other person is saying. the way you respond is just repeating what you think, while others are repeating what they say.

can we agree that we disagree?

quickflash.6314:

There is no good answer here

World vs World is a difficult ever changing environment.
(…)
But again it sounds like
WvW just isn’t what you want OP

I guess WvW isnt what any player wanted, or turned to be a very messy system in terms of design and changes, for some reason “most pro” guilds from gw1 already left.
Its hard and takes time to develop a good solution to make wvw a better game mode, they are testing the megablob server even that they need to create faction(to maintain server/guild pride) and a new map/continent for wvw, but like u said, “World vs World is a difficult ever changing environment”.