Guild Wars 2

Once fortified and sieged up, Hills is by far the hardest keep to take in the whole game. It puts SMC and Garrison to shame. They got places for counter siege against everything. Rams, catapults, trebs, nothing really works if the defenders know what they are doing.

The lord’s room of Hills, when sieged up, is also the hardest lord’s room to take in the game. There is only one small chock point. Against an experienced defender that Lord’s room is a slaughter house.

The only way to breakthrough is with 10 siege golems. After that you need to build offensive sieges to slowly kill the sieges inside lords’ room. Then finally you might win.

I have been on both sides of Hills. I found hills is by far the hardest keep to take. Anyone who had fought against a fully fortified Hills with 70 defenders know what I mean.

Do you think Hills needs a nerf?

I think what is needed is for your Zerg to not just blindly charge the Lords Room and actually think about how to get the opposition out of it

No…………………….

This is a new one.
Everyone’s been complaining about how WvW is biased towards Attackers and how territory should be EASIER to defend.

Anet didn’t even change anything, and now all of the sudden something is too easy to defend

Hills is both really easy to take and defend. I personally think its harder to take Bay since there’s such a big range between inner and outer Bay. If there’s a lot of people defending Hills, it can just take time, and with a half decent Mesmer you can almost constant port in reinforcements even if they close the outer gates.

Bay is much easier to attack since you can treb inner wall from a Vale camp which is the most easily defended camp in the Borderlands (only 2 entry points if we don’t count spawn).
What needs changing is that burning oil on top of the inner water gate at Garrison. You can’t hit ANYTHING with it.

Coinin.2590:

Hills is both really easy to take and defend. I personally think its harder to take Bay since there’s such a big range between inner and outer Bay. If there’s a lot of people defending Hills, it can just take time, and with a half decent Mesmer you can almost constant port in reinforcements even if they close the outer gates.

Bay can be trebbed from tower, inner can be trebbed from supply camp – hill inside bay – or walls and the lord room can be assaulted from many angles and from the walls and doesn’t have that nifty circle wall zone of death full of 50 AC’s like hills does. A defended Hills is much harder to take then a defended Bay.

But it does not need a nerf, like already mentioned the others need a buff. Hills is a perfect example of what taking a Keep should be. It takes time dedication and tactics, rather then just brute forcing like every other keep can be done.

You want taking keeps to be easier?! The heck dude…

I rather all other keeps be buffed than Hills get nerfed.

Keeps are too easy to take as is already.

Yes, even hills.

With a superior open field force, hills is very takeable – supply permitting.

Hills is about the only fun to be had in defending or attacking, as that choke point and Lord’s room design make it interesting even when outnumbered.

Hills are the only well designed keep in this game. It is supposed to be hell to siege a keep. That was the main idea about designing a keep. Not that you could buttkitten the place from 8 different directions.

Make more keeps like Hills I say.

I think Bay need a buff D:
And the water gate … THE WATER GATE!!!
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dank.3680:

Bay can be trebbed from tower, inner can be trebbed from supply camp – hill inside bay – or walls and the lord room can be assaulted from many angles and from the walls and doesn’t have that nifty circle wall zone of death full of 50 AC’s like hills does. A defended Hills is much harder to take then a defended Bay.

But it does not need a nerf, like already mentioned the others need a buff. Hills is a perfect example of what taking a Keep should be. It takes time dedication and tactics, rather then just brute forcing like every other keep can be done.

It is next to impossible to get reinforcements into a compromised Hills. It is incredibly easy to get reinforcements into a compromised Bay. Hills is an engagement of attrition for the attackers to wear out the bunkered defenders who, sans a easily nuked waypoint, cannot be supplied man power. Conversely, Bay can see an almost endless stream of defenders coming in from almost every direction (likewise attackers) but is on a low ground to its outer perimeter making sieging the inner easy. With proper siege placement where trebs cannot hit, it is possible to also turn bay into a death trap as it only has three choke paths leading to its lord room: north, south, or the docks door. The waypoint for bay is in the heart of the keep and is not cut off from its defenders like the Hills waypoint.

The way I see them is as such:
Bay outer: Crap.
Hills outer: Golden.
Bay inner: Golden.
Hills inner: Crap.

Garrison is garrison and it often takes a 2v1 to bring it down.

People need to stop saying nerf anything they find hard to do, does no one these days enjoy challenges? Like it actually being difficult and have to work to take a keep…so no it doesn’t if anything other structures need to be harder to take!

i agree that hills is very hard to take.once we breach inner, we never just storm inside right always as we know of all those deathraps that can be set up in the lordsroom.
hills has many many choke points, so be careful that u don’t get stuck in one of these.

gabal.4520:

Bay is much easier to attack since you can treb inner wall from a Vale camp which is the most easily defended camp in the Borderlands (only 2 entry points if we don’t count spawn).
What needs changing is that burning oil on top of the inner water gate at Garrison. You can’t hit ANYTHING with it.

Vale = 3 entry points. Spawn, Choke and Hillside towards Briar.

Agree that Hills Lord’s Room is a mighty pain to get into when well sieged and manned.

However I don’t think Hills needs a nerf, rather would like to see Bay a bit easier to defend and harder to take.

The worst part about hills is the 1 entrance to the Lords Room… fix that and it’s all good.

Once AC mastery is released, Hills will never be taken if sieged up.

“The Hills are alive, with the sound of QQ,
“With whines that they have cried, for a thousand years…”

Sorry, couldn’t resist. Seriously though, whatever happened to enjoying a good challenge?

Yamato Shinobi.4378:

gabal.4520:

(only 2 entry points if we don’t count spawn).

Vale = 3 entry points. Spawn, Choke and Hillside towards Briar.

Isn’t that what he said? Two of we don’t count spawn.

I would like to see another door in the cliff side below the lords room with either an elevator up or some steps up to the vista.

the others have 3 doors why not hills

Bay 3 outer 3 inner
garrison 3 outer 3 inner
hills 2 outer 2 inner

Thesilentflute.8761:

I would like to see another door in the cliff side below the lords room with either an elevator up or some steps up to the vista.

the others have 3 doors why not hills

Bay 3 outer 3 inner
garrison 3 outer 3 inner
hills 2 outer 2 inner

Actually I have to fix here now, Garrison has 5 outer gates.

What comes to the topic: Nooooooo, don’t take GuM’s Hills, we like to defend it weeks straight!

Hills is fine. I know its one of the harder to take than other keeps, but knowing this your server should adapt. Each server should be able to take one on each borderlands from the way the BL’s are designed. Knowing what a nightmare it can be to take once upgraded it should be a priority to take, keep and upgrade one of them. Im not sure about the points system though. Its pretty clear Hills is one of the hardest to take, yet you get the same points for Hills that you get for Bay.

No, Hills is fine, the issue are all other keeps, and towers. Hills is the only true defendable keep, when all should be easily defended.

A good group of people will bring Thieves, and Elementalist to protect ally siege, and then you can easily take Hills, so long as the PUGs protect your siege from pushes.

Only nerf is needed = put invisible wall which stops trebs hitting Bay from Vale.

Although, I don’t think people entirely understand the purpose of the maps and the ease in defending / hardship of taking hills.

Yes hills is easily defended and harder to take, but have you paused to think why?

Hills on Green Borderland is on the Red team’s side, giving them an advantage over Green, allowing them to hold it longer in their BL. Also the same as in Red BL, Green has Bay not Hills meaning Red can defend effectively vs Green. This is in attempt to stop the dominating server have free reign and gain free points from the 3rd server, while the 2nd server has an easy time fighting 3rd but harder time fighting Green because of hills being Green in their BL.

I would say only thing that needs a nerf really is how every outer wall is destructible in EB Valley, no other keep has all walls destructible and Overlook / Lowlands have water / physical walls blocking entry into the open fields surrounding Valley make blue the prime target for 2v1’s also its distance from SM.

I think Hills is the easiest to take. You only need one superior catapult to take down both outer and inner walls and the more catapults you add the faster both walls come down. You can attack it from either supply camp with a treb. It has plenty of mesmer hiding places for future portals. The tightness of the Lord Room can work either way.

The inner gates can be attacked from easily defendable positions…

I struggle to think what is difficult about taking Hills.

The walls and gates in Hills are far too easily taken out, the siege placed there does not last long if it’s a solid push on the keep. The Lord’s room is the only true choke point in that keep. If that’s nerfed then say hello to zerg point #4. We’ve lost it before though, a well led zerg can push through the 3 ballista and handful of arrow carts quickly.

It’s not the only solid choke point though. We’ve held Bay many times with multiple walls down inner and outer, but had Lords room Bay sieged to all hell. Let them push bay in the shade of 8 arrow carts and 4 ballista I say.

Personal opinion, the keeps are fine. There are tiny points that I gripe about but not enough to warrant a nerf to any of them.

Hills inner is the best bag fest zone in the game!

Isaac.6041:

No hills doesn’t need a nerf. The other keeps need a buff. Like Garrison inner south gate. When are they ever going to fix that.

Thats deliberate. The orthodox approach to capturing an upgraded garrison is to capture a north tower and safe treb from it, using supply lifted from the 3 northern most supply camps. Attackers were never meant to hold and upgrade the north towers because they are so close to the defender’s spawn. This treb position is designed to be temporary and easily lost.

Long range siege/counter siege over north towers is a common way to deadlock a BL. Non reinforced inner garrison gate is meant to allow for backdoor attempts when the map is deadlocked.

It keeps things interesting. The price is that watergate passage is an absolute death trap, so any watergate attempt must be fast and silent. If you get discovered trying to take the watergates down, the defender has too many places to put siege which you cannot hit (both inner and outer).

If a server wants to defend hills with everything they’ve got send a small force to build some Golems and PvD the rest of the map.

Yes Hills is hard to take when it’s well defended but that’s the point of a siege isn’t it?

Isaac.6041:

No hills doesn’t need a nerf. The other keeps need a buff. Like Garrison inner south gate. When are they ever going to fix that.

this^^^^^^ even without the water gate bug garrison is easy enough to take and the bay is laughable. SMC is just big and the different EB keeps are all easy to take except the north one, which is moderately difficult.

The bay can be longsieged from any direction and from inside defensive points. I personally like the stealth catapult corner near the south entrance.

South East Tower - Easy to capture. Difficult to hold. Can be safe trebbed from East Keep, Mortars are exposed, cannot defensive treb effectively because tower lord room blocks supply hut treb and cannot hit properly placed open field treb outside attacker’s spawn.

East Keep - Difficult to capture. Easy to hold. A maze of choke points and kill zones with great defensive siege spots. Can hit any treb against outer walls with mortars or vista treb. Can hit all inner siege with a (safe) inner treb. Lord room has one narrow point of entry.

North East Tower - Difficult to capture. Easy to hold. Cliffside ballistas can hit anything on the gate except max range catas. Height elevation means catas inside tower have longer range than open field catas. Has a safe defensive treb. Can be trebbed from Garrison outer but this treb is not safe.

South West Tower - Easy to capture. Difficult to hold. West spawn attacker can safe treb from the sheer cliffs outside spawn. This treb position is very difficult to assault open field. Can be trebbed and catapulted from Ruins. Most of this siege is not safe but the team holding Ruins has easy access to South Supply Camp and so can build an enormous amount of siege in a short space of time. This tower is valuable because it has a treb position on West Keep that can hit 2 walls at the same time for double supply drain.

West Keep - Easy to capture. Difficult to hold. All defensive siege on outer is not safe. South West Tower trebs can hit 2 walls. South West camp trebs can hit an outer wall + gate and inner wall + gate. Garrison treb is difficult to deal with. Inner can be safe trebbed from outer. Lord room is wide open.

North West Tower - Easy to capture. Difficult to hold. Can destroy all siege weapons on walls + cannon with a cliff ballista. Can be safe trebbed from Garrison inner.

Garrison - Easy to capture and difficult to hold when not upgraded and pre-emptively sieged. Difficult to capture and easy to hold when upgraded and pre-emptively sieged. Lots of ways into garrison – 5 outer gates. Inner garrison watergate cannot be reinforced. However, all of the entry points except south east outer gate are kill zones if defended and sieged properly.

Really, nerf a keep? If anything, buff all the other ones. Keeps are supposed to be hard to take, and should not be ‘zergable’. They should take cooperation and cunning to capture, not greater numbers.

A very well defended Hills is one of the hardest things to take but its all down to opinion really.

I find Hills promotes more of a Siege Vs Siege bunker down warfare style meanwhile Bay promotes an open get out there and flank type warfare.

i would ask to update all castle to be hard! and really hard to take!!!

Creativity beats the game!

Good example of how to take the lords room in hills, and it has voice comms as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJVicJDrzo

Personally I think it’s good that all the different keeps are of varying difficulties to take, adds a bit of flavour to WvW, which is needed seeing as 3 of the 4 maps are just copy + paste.

However, it would be interesting to add in another entrance to hills that goes directly into the lord room, but to balance the free entry it’d have to be near impossible to get into via that entrance.

Something like in the terribly bad paint example below, with an extremely open and vulnerable bridge that goes into a long, upward spiral ramp (like going from 1st floor to 2nd floor of SM) and into the rear of the lords room through a choke the same width of the existing entrance. Of course we’d have to move the altar aside, but it’s doing nothing atm anyway.

But otherwise, don’t nerf hills. Just accept it’s hard, and attack the keep knowing that.

Coinin.2590:

Hills is both really easy to take and defend. I personally think its harder to take Bay since there’s such a big range between inner and outer Bay. If there’s a lot of people defending Hills, it can just take time, and with a half decent Mesmer you can almost constant port in reinforcements even if they close the outer gates.

This^^^

With the third floor in Garrison, if you can get a lot of AC’s on third floor and enough ranged to keep ppl off the ramp to get up, garrison can be near impossible to take. and Bay having such a long run between outer and inner, I have always thought Hills was the easiest to take and hardest to defend.

Dhampyr.2104:

Yamato Shinobi.4378:

gabal.4520:

(only 2 entry points if we don’t count spawn).

Vale = 3 entry points. Spawn, Choke and Hillside towards Briar.

Isn’t that what he said? Two of we don’t count spawn.

HOMER DOH!! hahaha

Every team has access to Hills. I don’t see why you need to nerf it, if you all benefit from it. Once you break the Outer Gate, it’s actually quite easy to break the Inner if you use its height advantage against itself.

Zynthetic.2954:

…

That Burning Oil…um…looked like something else at first glance.