Guild Wars 2

I’m just curious of how different gamers / specifically Tiers think about spawn camping.

I personally think spawn camping separates casual play from competitive play. . So imo, it neither hurts nor helps the game, it’s just a different game mode.

ie – a tennis match ….in competition if a player can ace all the serves and shut out a match, its commendable and even sponsor worthy. In a casual game, if a player aces all the serves, it’s rude.

whats your opinion, and please say what tier you play on

Personal feeling- Crappy thing to do and nothing to be proud of or to encourage.

Practical Thought-Discourages enemies from coming out the more consistently this occurs, especially server militia, this leads to reduced fights, and wvw without fights is a waste of time.

what tier do you play on ?

X T D.6458:

Personal feeling- Crappy thing to do and nothing to be proud of or to encourage.

Practical Thought-Discourages enemies from coming out the more consistently this occurs, especially server militia, this leads to reduced fights, and wvw without fights is a waste of time.

Tell that to Magunma lmfaoooooo

Ricky.4706:

what tier do you play on ?

BG, NA tier 1

ahh, thank you, interesting. I was under the impression this was normal game play for t1 – t3 …being that i read of all the strategies ( and complaint threads ) that come from t1 – t3

CrimeMaker.8612:

X T D.6458:

Personal feeling- Crappy thing to do and nothing to be proud of or to encourage.

Practical Thought-Discourages enemies from coming out the more consistently this occurs, especially server militia, this leads to reduced fights, and wvw without fights is a waste of time.

Tell that to Magunma lmfaoooooo

The DH Mag spawn camp situation isn’t the typical situation. DH has fed us bags for days on end. When we let you out you end up sitting on trebs and ac’s and just treb open whatever structure you can reach and try to sneak in when no one is looking. Taking your keep and sitting in front of your spawn is pretty much the only time we are getting fights out of you.
That’s why people park in front of your spawn and not SoS’s. We cap their whole side as well but they don’t repeatedly run out to die for hours, they just go PPT the deserted bl until we leave.

Ricky.4706:

ahh, thank you, interesting. I was under the impression this was normal game play for kitten …being that i read of all the strategies ( and complaint threads ) that come from kitten

This stuff can go on at times on any server, but whether or not its a regular occurrence is a different issue. If my guild takes over an enemy bl, or their corner of eb (the rare times that we get to raid there) we dont stay at near an enemies spawn waiting to zerg people down, we move on to do something else. In fact if we see anyone on the server attempting anything close to spawn camping we will call them out, and from my time as a pug on BG this was also the case.

There are the occasional enemies that try to spawn camp us in EB, but its not a common thing for either JQ or YB from my experiences.

So as far as anyone saying this is normal gameplay and that it’s part of a servers gameplay, it is absolutely not here. There’s nothing fun about demoralizing your enemies. What your seeing in t2 right now is an unfortunate example of people encouraging a very cheap and pathetic type of play.

puck = maguuma t3 I believe is suggesting camping is ok.

let’s try to keep this thread on topic please, I’m just curious……I’m actually defending and defining maguuma’s game style as pro – esport – competitive game play. A competitive / title fight player should be able to get themselves out of a spawn and or prevent it….no different than a pro boxer needing to not get knocked out the first hit.

I’m trying to help anet if anything understand how our community thinks, in a neutral view in an effort to keep it fun for everyone. ( if possible lol )

Please <3

Puck.9612:

CrimeMaker.8612:

X T D.6458:

Personal feeling- Crappy thing to do and nothing to be proud of or to encourage.

Practical Thought-Discourages enemies from coming out the more consistently this occurs, especially server militia, this leads to reduced fights, and wvw without fights is a waste of time.

Tell that to Magunma lmfaoooooo

The DH Mag spawn camp situation isn’t the typical situation. DH has fed us bags for days on end. When we let you out you end up sitting on trebs and ac’s and just treb open whatever structure you can reach and try to sneak in when no one is looking. Taking your keep and sitting in front of your spawn is pretty much the only time we are getting fights out of you.
That’s why people park in front of your spawn and not SoS’s. We cap their whole side as well but they don’t repeatedly run out to die for hours, they just go PPT the deserted bl until we leave.

Well Puck LXG only raids 4 nights now because the reset is really late for any of the driver to get on and drive. Darkhaven does lack quality of fight guilds and pugs aren’t the best either which we are currently working on. If you don’t see LXG running around during our raid nights that’s normally because either we are training or scrimming

i have to agree with @crimemaker because Darkhaven focuses for the most part on having fun, so we discourage negativity in chats and invite everyone to play as they want, we do have a ton of fun as a server …..but having entered into a more competitive arena – removed some of the casual play we are use to. Nothing wrong with it, and I myself am contemplating ‘casual’ strategies that will help us fight more competitively.

Truth is, our skills are outgrowing our tiers, so i anticipate us jumping up and down tiers in the near future – we need a plan, ..not to win, but to keep things fun for us.

but that can be another topic.

I consider it one of the most boring activities in WvW from both sides. When something is boring people leave.

I agree with that also, the matchup with maguuma has been the most active for me in a while, in older matches when I logged on and saw DH had the whole map capped, i usually log back off. lol

Ricky.4706:

puck = maguuma t3 I believe is suggesting camping is ok.

let’s try to keep this thread on topic please, I’m just curious……I’m actually defending and defining maguuma’s game style as pro – esport – competitive game play. A competitive / title fight player should be able to get themselves out of a spawn and or prevent it….no different than a pro boxer needing to not get knocked out the first hit.

I’m trying to help anet if anything understand how our community thinks, in a neutral view in an effort to keep it fun for everyone. ( if possible lol )

Please <3

I don’t really have an opinion on if it’s okay or not. I’ve played on multiple servers and been spawn camped plenty of times and it never really bothered me. Most of the time I would just go out and kill people. If they had a crap ton I would have fun with it by switching to a thief or engi, stealthing, and then use a pull to yank someone into the legendary defenders.
When I’d get bored of it I’d go out a side exit or go start hitting one of their bl keeps to pull them out of EB.

I was simply explaining the current situation since crimemaker wanted to comment on it. If the only place to find fights is at your spawn then that’s where we are going to go. If you all are going to keep feeding us bags then we are going to stay there. Seriously… if 5 minutes pass without you all running out to die the people camping your spawn would end up leaving out of boredom.

I think it’s the kind of thing you do to break another server’s morale. It’s a total war tactic and not the sort of thing to be done unthinkingly.

Israel.7056:

I think it’s the kind of thing you do to break another server’s morale. It’s a total war tactic and not the sort of thing to be done unthinkingly.

Except its a game, we arent here to invade someones land, pillage their coffers, and have our way with their women. Games are about having fun, and wvw is heavily reliant on population. If people dont have fun and feel discouraged and demoralized, they will leave. Some people are unfortunately ok with this and are content to pvd empty maps all day. But not everyone gets excited by the sight of hard wooden gates.

X T D.6458:

Except its a game, we arent here to invade someones land, pillage their coffers, and have our way with their women. Games are about having fun, and wvw is heavily reliant on population. If people dont have fun and feel discouraged and demoralized, they will leave. Some people are unfortunately ok with this and are content to pvd empty maps all day. But not everyone gets excited by the site of hard wooden gates.

Yeah I generally agree. I’ll do it during seasons or if I just hate another server but otherwise I won’t spawn camp.

Interdiction is a viable strategy, especially if the map has active fights happening over objectives. Spawn camping otherwise would be fine to draw a bigger force either for entertainment or distraction.

I personally don’t think the term of spawn camping even applies in the case of wvw since everyone starts in a safe zone. No matter how big anet makes the safe zone, there will always be somebody waiting on the other side of it. No point in crying about it.

spawn camping is boring and dumb as an attacker…never bothers me as a defender since there are 3 exits to every spawn, and 4 spawns to choose from.

@torquedsoul, agreed, but is there a mechanic that anet can add.

for example, i was thinking of an outnumbered buff, where dwayna, blathazar, or grenth come out and fight with an outmanned server to help prevent a spawn camp.

this is also based on my concept of aligning servers to – evil ( spawn campers ), good ( fair fights ) – neutral ( whatever is clever lol ) – so dwayna would come out and heal everyone in a good server so they can’t die and have an advantage to retake overlook – grenth would help evil players by freezing enemies and helping the evil server make kills …… and for the neurtal servers – all shall be purified by balthazars fires

but that’s a personal fantasy :p

depends how much it’s being done. a few minutes of killing a trickle of people too dumb to exit the sides instead of rushing out the main gate is making a statement. spawn camping for hours/days, replete with siege and the whole kitten 9 yards is just being a kitten who needs to DIAF.

tier 8. but also spent some time in tier 4/5. and been on the giving and the receiving end of spawn camping

Ricky.4706:

@torquedsoul, agreed, but is there a mechanic that anet can add.

for example, i was thinking of an outnumbered buff, where dwayna, blathazar, or grenth come out and fight with an outmanned server to help prevent a spawn camp.

this is also based on my concept of aligning servers to – evil ( spawn campers ), good ( fair fights ) – neutral ( whatever is clever lol ) – so dwayna would come out and heal everyone in a good server so they can’t die and have an advantage to retake keep – grenth would help evil players by freezing enemies and helping the evil server make kills …… and for the neurtal servers – all shall be purified by balthazars fires

but that’s a personal fantasy :p

You mean like the legendary defenders (who 1 shot anyone that gets too close to your spawn) and siege razor (who’s break out event gives you increased stats, free siege that can’t be destroyed for a couple minutes, bubbles that knock back players without stab, and block projectiles, and who does a crap load of damage)?

mcarswell.3768:

spawn camping is boring and dumb as an attacker…never bothers me as a defender since there are 3 exits to every spawn, and 4 spawns to choose from.

Honestly, I’m for anything that raises the cost of dying. Knowing that the enemies are trolling your spawn makes you not want to die.

@puck – usually spawn camps happen when a server has more population than the opponent, it gets worse over time as people just stop playing the match. so yes, an advantage that encourages people to not give up. I like the insane odds myself to be honest.

Spawn camping is a viable strategy, in this game, and others, however from a moral standpoint, you’re beating someone into submission, being a bully.

The fact that you were able to push a server to their gates already shows your superior numbers/position.

Against a T1 server, if you pull that, you might indeed get a counter force to fight (especially if during seasons), doubtful nowadays, since most would rather just move on rather than wasting time against larger numbers.

Against lower tiers, or unorganized groups, you’re going to drive away the very people trying to WvW, and later, you’ll wonder why no one bothers to WvW anymore, even in populated servers during prime time.

Also, for those arguing that the people getting pushed could take side exits, why bother? Why take a camp or a tower when it’ll just get zerged down? Why not take the easiest exit, that little button that lets you go back to PvE.

BG, Tier 1 btw, all those I play with frown upon spawn camping heavily.

Ven Zehn.6573:

BG, Tier 1 btw, all those I play with frown upon spawn camping heavily.

and thats how i would define a “good” alignment server.

An evil server will try for a first round knock out. – highly competitive
A good server will step back and allow their opponent to get up. – new player friendly
A neutral server will respond accordingly. – casual hard core.

edit – I’m also considering the value this would add to matching up servers of like minded players – you know more or less what kind of fights to expect from an aligned server. this would add casual value to match ups and how server / community populations are formed.

Meh. All is fair in love and wvw. Love it or hate it, it takes 2 sides to spawn camp. If you are on the receiving end, starve the beast and take a different exit. If you CHOOSE to walk out the front gate and get mowed down by a superior force, you are feeding the trolls and being part of the problem.

Want to drive spawn campers nuts? Slip out the side and start flipping camps and towers behind them.

Spawn camping is for people not confident enough in their skillset that they feel they can only win en masse. It’s embarassing.

Puck.9612:

CrimeMaker.8612:

X T D.6458:

Personal feeling- Crappy thing to do and nothing to be proud of or to encourage.

Practical Thought-Discourages enemies from coming out the more consistently this occurs, especially server militia, this leads to reduced fights, and wvw without fights is a waste of time.

Tell that to Magunma lmfaoooooo

The DH Mag spawn camp situation isn’t the typical situation. DH has fed us bags for days on end. When we let you out you end up sitting on trebs and ac’s and just treb open whatever structure you can reach and try to sneak in when no one is looking. Taking your keep and sitting in front of your spawn is pretty much the only time we are getting fights out of you.
That’s why people park in front of your spawn and not SoS’s. We cap their whole side as well but they don’t repeatedly run out to die for hours, they just go PPT the deserted bl until we leave.

Some people are so precious…

Mag was spawn camping us last night, big deal lol I actually find it fun… try to kill them and practice ur skills/build… dance in front of them, take ur armour off and show them ur undies or turn into a quaggan. Im an ele and like to practice pushing them all back

What does it matter really. If u hate it so much go out the sides and start capping their stuff… pay them back and spawn camp them tomorrow…. whatever.

Like this guy says if you hate being camped, but keep running out to them repeatedly its pretty dumb.

T3

i will unfortunately have to defend maguuma in this point, because they’ve always played like that and they are just looking to play competitive. Unfortunately not everyone in wvw is there to compete as intensely, and it’s not fair to them who just want to have fun in pvp, nor is it fair to maguuma who has experience playing competitively as a large group.

this coming from someone that must have given maguuma a ton of stuff at the spawn camp lol i’ve had a lot of fun, i just wished it didn’t offend others as much. I’ve played competitively before on a guild level, so i get it. And would love to see maguuma play vs like minded servers, those matches would be awesome to watch! Those would be matches worthy of a bet

It’s fairly irrelevant in WvW. Under the list of toxic behaviors this is far from the worst.

Back then there were games where if you died, you’d spawn back in a place where someone could instantly kill you again. Stronghold, while not exactly, that does have that kind of snowball unpleasantness going on. That doesn’t exist in WvW, because you are invulnerable in spawn and there are other exits as well as other maps You also have these OP legendary defenders to pull campers in anyways. Unless the matchup is so broken they can cover ever single entrance from all your map spawns, you being spawn camped is something of your own volition.

Currently in Tier 4, but was in Tier 3 for the longest time. So I know exactly what’s going on.

Frankly, I had little pity for those getting spawn camped on our end because they were stubborn and refused to consider other options. Literally had people just doing that for hours to no avail. Sometimes I’d just play around for kittens and giggles but then ultimately found something better to do. And frankly, a lot of them were just as pathetic— they’d do the exact same thing when given the chance, toss siege, emote, w/e. Everything but considering a different approach.

Do you remember the last time your zerg ran over 3 roamers? Do you remember that time you instagibbed an uplevel trying to do their daily? Do you remember the last time you bashed down a wall to run over some AFK person? Do you remember that time you were dueling someone and then that person got jumped by 4 of your friends? You probably don’t. But if it happens to you…

Sometimes you get run over. Sometimes you run over someone. The game isn’t a conspirator to target you specifically. I won’t lie. In the current situation, it’s uneven in terms of who suffers more, but really, playing the victim gets you nowhere especially when you choose to ignore the obvious solutions.

In retrospect, a lot of us actually laughed at SoS in the past for abandoning their EB to go to another map. Little did we know that was just being smart and being more productive than being a target dummy.

Long ago within my first months of playing the game on a high tier, oh yeah I’d do it and laugh. Then I decided I wanted to get away from blobs and joined the last place server to command and I found out in a hurry it hurts the game mode. I think you are forcing the opposing server to log off, then your zerg gets bored and it overall hurts a lot of player experience. As a commander who tagged up heavily outnumbered 90% of the time I did command, it really sucks and your zerg or small crew will get frustrated and log. You can try multiple tactics other bls for example, the spawn campers will eventually just find you again and steamroll you.

I didn’t mind it much, whateves, but I felt more bad for my pugs and such. Because as a tag you want to make your followers experience as best as you can.

How in the world do you imagine spawn camping would be beneficial for the game?

There is spawn camping for fights and spawn camping just to be a kitten & demoralize. Mag are kittens & they back it up with posts on other forums saying they only do it to be kittens. Trebs from the keep, open field siege, constant taunting, no class, & very unsportsmanlike. Personally I enjoy it. It’s amazing how so many like minded people flock to this one server and paint the server as the ultimate bad guy. It’s easy to counter this, if u don’t have the numbers to beat them you just don’t fight them. If you want to be kittens back, wp any time you see them and don’t fight them all week or get in the habit of tossing a crap load of siege in everything you take. Then just sit back and laugh when they complain about the quality of fights just like they laugh at all these spawn camping posts.

In T1, spawn camping is frowned upon as unsportsmanlike. It is used sparingly and mostly in a retaliatory fashion as a Gibb smack for something an enemy did prior. If it’s used for giggles, it’s done briefly. At least that’s how JQ and BG have run it the past couple of years. The new kid YB, still hasn’t matured to that level of conduct yet.

Spawn camping is normally more common when you have servers trying to farm glicko for a Tier push rather then when you get Tiers looking for fights. Demoralizing and discouraging the enemy to play tends to be a tactic of some of the guilds in order to maximize PPT and minimize resistance to progress quickly to the next Tier.

We saw a lot of spawn camping when YB made their T1 push and we’re seeing more now TC (both from TC and the Rebellion) are making the same push. Your probably reading more posts about spawn camping because there are servers in T2 and T3 trying to progress to the next Tier.

Spawn camping is boring as hell.
It sucks when the rest of the map is empty because your team is camping the others.
So I’d say it hurts morale for the other teams… probably.

Knob.6835:

There is spawn camping for fights and spawn camping just to be a kitten & demoralize. Mag are kittens & they back it up with posts on other forums saying they only do it to be kittens. Trebs from the keep, open field siege, constant taunting, no class, & very unsportsmanlike. Personally I enjoy it. It’s amazing how so many like minded people flock to this one server and paint the server as the ultimate bad guy. It’s easy to counter this, if u don’t have the numbers to beat them you just don’t fight them. If you want to be kittens back, wp any time you see them and don’t fight them all week or get in the habit of tossing a crap load of siege in everything you take. Then just sit back and laugh when they complain about the quality of fights just like they laugh at all these spawn camping posts.

The point is if u just fought a tough battle to take someone’s keep and you need to drop their numbers to hold the keep , it is beneficial to your server. If you are 100000 points ahead of every one then it is not. Karma ,No one wants to end up fighting 2 yaks bend servers. If you want good fights you let the enemy reclaim some territory and gain some momentum then fight them. Those fights are much more epic than spawn camping.

it would seem that some would agree that spawn camping is an important tactic for competitive wvw / esport.

this should be considered as part of any population balance, because wvw is a pvp sandbox, and some like playing for fun, others for competition….there is apparently no one size fits all in play style. it would probably also curb band-wagoning as people will more likely migrate to a like minded server than a winning server.

Spawn camping can be done even if you’re the inferior force in numbers, it’s a matter of skill. Realize that you can go toe to toe with an enemy force and if they are trained and focused, with correct builds, you’re going to get squashed, all the way back to spawn.

IMO, spawn camping results in people logging off because its not fun to well . . . do nothing.

But on that note, so is building siege at the spawn point where players can’t take damage. That also needs to be addressed.

Increase the range for no siege building on all borderlands out of spawn, particularly EBG green side and move out the legendary guards. Not everyone is hardcore and should hopefully enjoy the game.

Or we can continue to bleed players.

DH could have spawn camped a ton, but we never do….we just love fighting, which is probably why maguuma saw so many camp fights – we don’t try to win, we run around and destroy stuff lol. – if we would have tried to win, we would have done old techniques of having teams of 20+ people fly from bl to bl keeping maguuma guessing where we are. Our guys are fast, which is what got us to t3 to begin with. We haven’t done that in a while because it hasn’t been necessary and hardly any of the new commanders are doing it anymore. It’s been more like wvw tours than racing for points, i’m not complaining about that either – casual pvp has it’s merits! more laughs, less teeth grinding!

This Destro here. I will tell it how it is. DH and everyone in the lower tiers stacked on that server. Players with no experience at all.

DH then went PPT try hard and came to T3 where it doesn’t belong. Servers like NSP and EB T4 servers Have much more skilled players than DH yet lacked the coverage to deal with this over stacked T6 server.

Mag has been rebuilding for a long time now and has been in T3-T4 for a long time now and we are ready to go to T2 because Mag is way too big for T4 and T3 in its current state is trash.

T3 was good before Bannok quit the game and SBI imploded. Now SOS is in T3 and is a dead server. We have no intrest at all in being here and your server DH provides Zero incentive for us to stay.

DH has the players but not the coordination or skill to leave their spawn. You are being spawn camped because if you leave spawn you will just resume doing the same thing that you have been doing which got you matched with us. That is PPT.

So here is advice. Either get good at the game or stop ktraining to move up in tiers where you can’t compete.

that sounds personal, we can in fact compete, i’ve watched things pick up and slow down. Last few matches have gotten easy for us before maguuma, so things slowed down.

This thread is about your view if spawn camping is good for the game or not, not how awesome you think you are. no advice was required.

Ricky I think you are confusing numbers with competition. Just because a server is more stacked than another one and prioritizes PPT over fighting doesn’t make them competitive.

I will be totally honest with you Less skilled or newer players stack on low tier server and blob and ktrain down equally newer or less skilled players. That doesn’t make it a competitive server.

Then such a server goes up and is matched with more veteran players and servers, that have better coordination, better guilds, and better pugs. That isn’t offering competition its offering bags.

Spawn killing is not aginst the rules. And don’t take advice from T1 servers. they have been match fixing the game for years and have meetings with each other to decide what weeks who will ppt or take a break at the game. T1 is only about PPT.

but that has nothing to do with the topic.

Do you think spawn camping is good or bad for the game ?

I think that ANET has made it so it’s impossible to spawn camp in wvw. That why I made the point that I did about experience and coordination. If a server gets spawn killed its becasue they are making bad decisions because of a lack of experience.

They could hop maps, go out another exit, create a diversion many other things, than allow your self to be a bag dispenser. They could also not lose thier keep to begin with during time zones when if they played better wouldn’t lose it.

Mag almost never took overlook from SBI the way they defend it. And SBI has way less people than DH and over look is the most defend able keep on the map.

heh, but that still doesn’t answer the question.

do you think spawn camping helps the game or hurts the game ?

please start your answer with – hurts …or helps, and explain why you think so.

Its not about any specific server or any specific match, it’s about coming up with possible ideas to keep wvw fun for everyone. Some servers dont like to spawn camp because they think it’s wrong and hurts the game – discourages people from playing. and others like to use it as a competitive strategy.

here, i’ll make a post based on my own rules lol

I think it helps the game.

Why ? because it opens up a tier of competitive play which some players obviously enjoy.

WvW is a pvp sandbox that allows a variety of game play, from casual to esport competition. The only problem I see with the system is that people who don’t like it are competing with people who do like it, and I think there should be a esport division of people who do like it, to avoid forcing one style of play on everyone. you can’t make a pvp sandbox and insist on one play style, that would be counter intuitive imo.

Spawn camping doesn’t hurt the game, because spawn camping isn’t possible unless the players being spawn camped allow themselves to be spawn camped.

You are asking for a yes or no answer to a question that basically shouldn’t be a question.

I’ll put it in laymen terms. Does painting the wall with the big roller or the little roller hurt or help the wall. It’s a nonsensical question.

ok, lets try a different approach.

If anet were to separate servers into 2 divisions – esports vs casual.

In esports anything goes, in casual spawn camping is strictly forbidden and there would be game mechanics that prevent it from happening.

which would you join ? esports or casual ?