Guild Wars 2

I didn’t start playing until after the switch over to desert borderlands happened. After two nights of alpine, I don’t see what the fuss was all about.

Getting out of the citadel takes way longer and I have to take falling damage like six times before I can go anywhere. The objectives have less convenient entry than desert. I keep hearing about how alpine is smaller than desert, but it seems like it takes longer to get anywhere because of all the crap in the way.

Desert’s streamlined changes with the spring update made it very navigable. And they were just as populated as alpine was, the zerg-on-zerg fights were way better than on EBG because they didn’t amount to holding a choke point. You could move around and use the terrain to your advantage while choosing where to fight. Commanders actually had to think about what they were doing.

The only thing I really see as being “better” is the keep with the moat around it might lead to some interesting water fights. In the past two nights I’ve had a couple fights there had the zergs rushing in straight lines to the shore rather than fight in the water, though. Either way, that’s an opportunity that doesn’t really exist elsewhere.

It’s a decent map, but it feels like a dumbed down EBG to me. Desert feels different, alpine is more of the same.

Small for clusters, a bit limited, low effort map do how the game works, to easy.

But Dessert BL was to much for what this game offers, since was releing in gimmicks a bit to much pve adversities both to cover the lackness of what gw2 is, still was a good map due its space and had alot of improvements capability, still alpine as its own space for improvement.

When nostalgia wears off and people realize they are now WVWing 2014 style, they will remember why people were leaving in the first place. DBL itself didn’t cause people to leave and ABL itself didn’t cause a resurgence – there were other things going on in WVW as well….

Yeah going to have to agree. There are some nice places for fights in the middle of the map, but citadel and everything around it is just cringeworthy. Knock some walls down and add more ramps.

The quickest route to get somewhere shouldn’t involve face planting 4 times in 20 seconds.

I’m really liking most of the map. Just don’t care for citadel or places where you have to fall 3 or 4 times at heights that do the faceplate thing. Taking falling damage isn’t too bad…without the knockdown.

Alpine is comfortable.
Desert is annoying.

Yeah, the Alpine maps are pretty bad. Only been for few days and they already getting really annoying. At least Desert maps were getting better, now we are stuck with this old garbage again.

Liston.9708:

When nostalgia wears off and people realize they are now WVWing 2014 style, they will remember why people were leaving in the first place. DBL itself didn’t cause people to leave and ABL itself didn’t cause a resurgence – there were other things going on in WVW as well….

if wvw reverted to 2014 it would be a net improvement

Well, a couple days have passed.. and I still like Alpine, much better than desert. Not because of nostalgia but because.. well.. I simply prefer it, still.

Hesacon, no offense but the map is way smaller and it takes a much shorter timt to get to objectives. This is the main reason that people like it so much. You can actually defend things because you don’t have to spend 3 years running towards it. The frustration you feel is because you do not know how to naviage it yet.

There is more open space which makes it easier to do great zerg battles. And the keeps are not Blown out of proportion. And While this can be seen differently i greatly appreciate that there is less random annoyingness with auto turrets and stealth fog and rock walls and all that random jazz.

Smaller, flatter. Easier to find fights, less BS mechanics.

Sure desert is different, but different doesn’t mean better.

Edit: And I am amazed that you think there is more “crap in the way” in Alpines than in desert. Yeah this is a l2NavigateTheMap issue.

Pride.1734:

There is more open space which makes it easier to do great zerg battles. And the keeps are not Blown out of proportion. And While this can be seen differently i greatly appreciate that there is less random annoyingness with auto turrets and stealth fog and rock walls and all that random jazz.

Honestly if they’d drop the DBL citadel right where the alpine citadel is and smooth out the stupid amount of cliffs in a couple places it’d be golden. Right now just trying to get out of spawn makes me rage. It’s like a suburb of divinity’s reach…facing the wrong direction.

Pride.1734:

Hesacon, no offense but the map is way smaller and it takes a much shorter timt to get to objectives. This is the main reason that people like it so much. You can actually defend things because you don’t have to spend 3 years running towards it. The frustration you feel is because you do not know how to naviage it yet.

There is more open space which makes it easier to do great zerg battles. And the keeps are not Blown out of proportion. And While this can be seen differently i greatly appreciate that there is less random annoyingness with auto turrets and stealth fog and rock walls and all that random jazz.

It makes it quicker for the zerg to get to a small group flipping objectives.

Reh.5986

Honestly if they’d drop the DBL citadel right where the alpine citadel is and smooth out the stupid amount of cliffs in a couple places it’d be golden. Right now just trying to get out of spawn makes me rage. It’s like a suburb of divinity’s reach…facing the wrong direction.

I felt exactly the same way when i first stepped foot on the map. Now i know all the pathes and drops by heart and i don’t even see the cliffs as an obstacle anymore.

@Floriane.3504
anything’s better than knocking down open doors.

Floriane.3504:

Pride.1734:

Hesacon, no offense but the map is way smaller and it takes a much shorter timt to get to objectives. This is the main reason that people like it so much. You can actually defend things because you don’t have to spend 3 years running towards it. The frustration you feel is because you do not know how to naviage it yet.

There is more open space which makes it easier to do great zerg battles. And the keeps are not Blown out of proportion. And While this can be seen differently i greatly appreciate that there is less random annoyingness with auto turrets and stealth fog and rock walls and all that random jazz.

It makes it quicker for the zerg to get to a small group flipping objectives.

Because pvding towers with zero resistance is what wvw is all about, right?

Liston.9708:

When nostalgia wears off and people realize they are now WVWing 2014 style, they will remember why people were leaving in the first place. DBL itself didn’t cause people to leave and ABL itself didn’t cause a resurgence – there were other things going on in WVW as well….

Think this guy hit it right on. Nostalgia. I thought the old BLS would really help but it’s still a meh state till they address other issues. My thought is anet waiting entirely way too long to address wvw and the population/mode suffered the ultimate penalty, a slow painful death. I am getting more roaming fights than ever luckily with the old BLS, but soon as new BLS come back into rotation it’s break time. Boring AF.

If you have to start from Citadel the time it takes to get to an objective is not really faster… It’s just most people took slow ways and not the faster paths to get to side keeps, didn’t use the back entrances to the south or north towers, the walking time isn’t that much faster. BUT there is more space around the outside of “Bay” and “hills” along with the north towers. More tweaking needs to be done with the DBL, but I still prefer DBL as its not doubt cata spot on every Keep while the enemy isn’t looking, especially when primeitme isn’t going. Also it takes ages to upgrade keeps on Alpine… its ridiculous

the EB queue speaks for itself no need to understand the fuss is about.

Desert has 100 turns and stuff to get somewhere were alpine you can run from enywere to enywere no walls reducing your movement making it faster to get around no stupid elevations wile desert is fine for bug groups guilds don’t like it

- Desert has too much stuff like shrines etc, all PvE mechanics that don’t really belong in WvW

- Desert north towers and even the south ones are unstrategic, there’s barely any reason to defend those side towers since they can’t treb garri.

- Desert has a lot of vertical distance which makes navigation a chore

Personally I don’t think DBL was that bad if they fixed all the above I mentioned, I liked the map overall after they applied the bunch of fixes reducing travel time.

Alpine force you to fight while DBL promotes the ppt and hide…

The DBL was not bad per se, but it was way too big (as it was pointed out many times before its release). So the frequency of fights took a dive and the core WvW crowd was displeased. The alpine borderlands is way faster and more exciting (to me). So it was a very welcome change to have the old borderlands back.

Taxidriver.2043:

the EB queue speaks for itself no need to understand the fuss is about.

http://imgur.com/oQyDRPJ

TallBarr.2184:

Taxidriver.2043:

the EB queue speaks for itself no need to understand the fuss is about.

http://imgur.com/oQyDRPJ

TallBarr.2184:

Justine.6351:

Alpine is comfortable.
Desert is annoying.

git gud pve scrub

I roamed the borderlands for 3 years. Gave desert BL roaming a fair chance multiple times over the past 6 months. Its garbage to roam, not for me, but for the defenders that I kill that won’t bother running the distance to reclaim the southern camps.

And so it’s extremely boring. Alpine could get dead some nights. Talking all 6 camps and all sentries before a defender showed up. Desert BL I could probably take all camps/sentries and halt the towers and probably chase that 1 random away.

It’s funny how people try to defend desert now. There was a reason that no one played them previously. The desert map sucks. The player numbers don’t lie.

style.6173:

It’s funny how people try to defend desert now. There was a reason that no one played them previously. The desert map sucks. The player numbers don’t lie.

Well I thought they sucked until they made the changes to it, which we only got 2 weeks of so many didn’t even give the update a chance, but hey whatever. Double wall them keeps and hide a blob in the tower and camp to guard those trebs hitting inner and outter bay.

Pride.1734:

Hesacon, no offense but the map is way smaller and it takes a much shorter timt to get to objectives. This is the main reason that people like it so much. You can actually defend things because you don’t have to spend 3 years running towards it. The frustration you feel is because you do not know how to naviage it yet.

There is more open space which makes it easier to do great zerg battles. And the keeps are not Blown out of proportion. And While this can be seen differently i greatly appreciate that there is less random annoyingness with auto turrets and stealth fog and rock walls and all that random jazz.

It takes way longer to get the kitten out of the citadel. There were shortcuts from the DBL citadel to rampart. You have to go way out of your way to get to the garri, down 9000 cliffs. It’s like the red EBG keep on steroids.

I think the main problem is the change to having the waypoint be a T3 upgrade reward doesn’t work with alpine just because the citadel is such a disaster.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Smaller, flatter. Easier to find fights, less BS mechanics.

Sure desert is different, but different doesn’t mean better.

Edit: And I am amazed that you think there is more “crap in the way” in Alpines than in desert. Yeah this is a l2NavigateTheMap issue.

It isn’t. I figured it out pretty quickly. The problem is you have to take falling damage to get anywhere and those paths are one-way. To get back up them you have to circle around.

Justine.6351:

TallBarr.2184:

Justine.6351:

Alpine is comfortable.
Desert is annoying.

git gud pve scrub

I roamed the borderlands for 3 years. Gave desert BL roaming a fair chance multiple times over the past 6 months. Its garbage to roam, not for me, but for the defenders that I kill that won’t bother running the distance to reclaim the southern camps.

And so it’s extremely boring. Alpine could get dead some nights. Talking all 6 camps and all sentries before a defender showed up. Desert BL I could probably take all camps/sentries and halt the towers and probably chase that 1 random away.

In DBL you had to contend with sentries. They’re totally ignorable in alpine. In DBL you had to be careful about where you went while roaming. In alpine it’s one big solo karma train.

If sentries arnt by passable on a long route then roaming would be impossible as they would just get run down by 2x numbe4s. Hence why roamers that are being hunted avoid them. But don’t be silly, roamers will flip a sentry and use it to know where the defenders are.

And it’s hardly a solo karma train lol.

Hesacon.8735:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Smaller, flatter. Easier to find fights, less BS mechanics.

Sure desert is different, but different doesn’t mean better.

Edit: And I am amazed that you think there is more “crap in the way” in Alpines than in desert. Yeah this is a l2NavigateTheMap issue.

It isn’t. I figured it out pretty quickly. The problem is you have to take falling damage to get anywhere and those paths are one-way. To get back up them you have to circle around.

That is your complaint?? Did we play the same two borderlands??

All the objectives on the ABL have synergy. There’s reasons to hold certain objectives before you move onto others and the proximity of the objectives means there’s far more flexibility to the nature of a siege encompassing multiple objectives at the same time. This has the effect of also facilitating a high throughout of fights because objectives are what bring players together.

There are a few redeeming features to the DBL, but it’s just not an interesting map to control because everything is so succinct and geographically isolated. Roaming wise, fights were so few and far between that it just became far too tedious.

My hope for the DBL when it comes back: Anet somehow have metrics for the most used parts of the map and they expand these whilst cutting out others. There are a few areas on the DBL that are conducive to a similar WvW experience offered by the ABL. The area between the north east camp, north entrance to air keep and the gate to the north east tower was a great spot for some action. However, the cliffs and steps surrounding the air keep are a wasteland and I rarely ever saw any players there. In fact, the vast majority of the time, I observed players spawning at the south east BL WP, being funnelled away from the air keep cliff area to go past the two south towers directly to the enemy spawn and perhaps fire keep. I really think that cutting out some large sections of the map could make it a better experience.

Put gliding into desert borderlands and add updrifsts and make keeps towers no fly zone for some reason (add flying dragons there or something) than desert BL would be fine

Not really a DBL vs alpine thing for me. I just think alpine has a couple spots that could use a bit of smoothing. I actually love a lot of the south part of the map.

Are you guys for real? Alpine is much easier to navigate and much faster to find fights. The borderlands are now always online for roamers and it is super fun. I’ve seen those 30 men groups get killed by a couple of roamers picking on the tail and finally finishing off the commander and his acolytes.

This map is what WvW should be. No more walk in the park with a commander who only knows how to K-train when there is no opposition and simply wins by numbers. Now roamers got terrain to navigate around instead of giving up the chase every godkitten choke point there was in Deserted borderland.

Talking about the zerg fights in general, there is much more action all around (even if orange swords are not working) than on Deserted borderland when orange swords were working! THAT! speaks louder than thunder to me.

Just my 2 cent as a roamer who finally got his friend list online again since all my friends are coming back and we roam and kill people every day. Thanks Anet <3

DBL was worst to navigate. My comparison between Hills and Airkeep. You find very easy the entrance to hills, yes it’s harder to break through, when the gate is blocked, but you don’t need to find the right path at first, when the keep is attacked by the enemy. When following a commander and missed the go, in the alpine map you can easily find your way back to the commander, not so in the desert borderland with all the canyons and different heights and blocked path, not if you don’t have much swiftness on you. For dbl you need to know the maps by heart to be effective, not so the alpine maps. It’s more user and casual friendly.

my 2 cent

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Hesacon.8735:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Smaller, flatter. Easier to find fights, less BS mechanics.

Sure desert is different, but different doesn’t mean better.

Edit: And I am amazed that you think there is more “crap in the way” in Alpines than in desert. Yeah this is a l2NavigateTheMap issue.

It isn’t. I figured it out pretty quickly. The problem is you have to take falling damage to get anywhere and those paths are one-way. To get back up them you have to circle around.

That is your complaint?? Did we play the same two borderlands??

That it takes way longer to get anywhere, especially out of the citadel? Pretty sure I said that in the OP. Pretty sure it was one of the reasons why I didn’t understand why people thought these maps were so amazing. I’m not saying these maps are bad, but they’re certainly not as good as I was led to believe and they’re about on the same level as DBL. Not better, not worse, but different with their own sets of issues.

Phantom.5389:

Are you guys for real? Alpine is much easier to navigate and much faster to find fights. The borderlands are now always online for roamers and it is super fun. I’ve seen those 30 men groups get killed by a couple of roamers picking on the tail and finally finishing off the commander and his acolytes.

This map is what WvW should be. No more walk in the park with a commander who only knows how to K-train when there is no opposition and simply wins by numbers. Now roamers got terrain to navigate around instead of giving up the chase every godkitten choke point there was in Deserted borderland.

Talking about the zerg fights in general, there is much more action all around (even if orange swords are not working) than on Deserted borderland when orange swords were working! THAT! speaks louder than thunder to me.

Just my 2 cent as a roamer who finally got his friend list online again since all my friends are coming back and we roam and kill people every day. Thanks Anet <3

So they’re easy to navigate but they have all this terrain to navigate around? That was my gripe. It takes forever to get anywhere on these maps. Despite being “smaller,” you don’t save any time getting to any of the objectives.

You know, there is something these topics remind me of. Edward or Jacob?

Instead of making assumptions to the players skill just accept that it is more often than not a simple matter of taste and you know what people say about taste.

It was one of the main reason I started playing WvW again after stopping because of them. Alpine FTW. Smaller – more chances to fight, less gimmicks.

reverting back to years ago was a terrible idea. Period.

It takes rough 30-35s to be @ outer Garrison… Standing in citadel go left and pop down the stairs right off the last cliff and you are right there.