Guild Wars 2

So I was using a Hammer/GS Warrior, versus a PU Condi Mesmer, with 5 guard stacks at that while I had none.

After about 8 minutes of frustration, I finally managed to take him down.

He then proceeds to flame me accusing me of resetting the fight (I never reset the fight) and running (I never ran either) then eventually he blocks me. I kind of find it ironically because a PU condi mesmer’s playstyle is pretty much just spam clones, stealth, teleports, winds of chaos, torment block, etc.

Which got me thinking, when classes that have ranged weapons like rangers use sword or GS to create distance, or mesmers and thieves use stealth and teleports to do the same thing, it’s called kiting. But when a Warrior uses rush to create distance for whatever reason, it’s called cheesy or called “running”. In my case I used it to wait for my cooldown on my Berserker Stance which was about to be up in 7-8 seconds and it isn’t like I completely avoid my opponent for 20+ seconds till Healing Signet heals me full. Even then, if you can’t attack or damage me, then that’s your fault and the fault of your build.

The difference is, the Warrior is usually full melee while the other class is ranged. A Warrior isn’t doing damage at 1,200 range. I think people got their concepts of kiting and running mixed up.

Would like to know other people’s thoughts about this.

This comes up every once in a while:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Cowardly-Warriors/first

Whenever it does I just quote my response:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I think only one person really understood why a warrior would do this, or rather, why any and all classes do this:

a) It’s a valid tactic used to reset a fight. Much in the same way that a thief will stealth or use SR, it’s to provide some space for healing or to simply retreat from a fight that you are sure you are going to die in. Do you sit there and let people kill you if you have no chance? Getting away isn’t cowardly, it’s smart.

b) I’ve used GS rush and WA many times to bait people. I have picked off entire groups of 10 or more one or two at a time by having them chase, one or two getting really close, and then I swap to either my hammer or axe with a sigil of hydromancy that effectively roots them for 2 seconds and go to town. One down. Who’s next?

c) If you are not smart enough to realize when it’s simply time to get the hell out of dodge, and you’re willing to die for no reason, that’s your problem. Every player of every type of class I’ve come across has used various ways of escaping me, and it’s usually when they’ve taken a few hits they know they can’t manage long-term. Elementalist swaps to earth for stability and then air and flashes the hell out. Necro switches to lich or plague form and says cya! Mesmer spawns clones and phantasms, swaps and blinks, veils and gets away. Engi, holy crap, ever see an engi traited for mobility make an escape? You can chase one around the map ten times over. Ranger, came across one today that used his skills brilliantly. He would tap about-face, hit lightning reflexes, then tap about face again. Sword 2 and GS 3 to get even further away. He was completely uncatchable. There were 6 of us and one of him. He used his brain and evaded death while we tried helplessly to chase him down halfway across the map. Thief? I don’t think I even need to mention thief, do I? Guardians will pop Retreat, Save Yourselves, invul, and sometimes even a book not to speed away, but to stop you from being able to kill them before they get to where they’re going (usually leading you right into the group just around the corner that you foolishly chased him alone into).

A smart player uses these various methods of escape for a lot of different reasons. Oftentimes, if you see me using Rush, I’m baiting you. Come after me, do it. Break away from your group to chase me. Then I’ll turn around and crack your skull open. Your fault. Not mine.

When I first started playing WvW, I used to think the same thing: cowards. Why do they run? The longer I played, the more I understood. It’s a very simple thing: if you want to sit there and die for no reason whatsoever, I mean really knowingly die, you haven’t learned to be smart enough not to yet.

Catch me if you dare can.

It’s not even about resetting the fight most of the time, but simply gaining distance for room to regen or get your skills off CD. Don’t let it get to you.

My favorite angry-whisper came from a Stealth-based Thief during roaming, as I was using SD-Engi with Analyze , I was called playing “noobplay” ‘cos it destroyed him..
(You know, those ~20k burst (5-6k Pry Bar, I Love You!) SD engies, 6 second is enough most of the time.. ofc against good Thieves it’s not so easy, but average ones are just panicking and using every stealth skill..)
Was not even a /bow 1v1, just roaming..
So it’s perfectly fine to stealth away every 3 sec for another Backstab but playing something against Thieves is “noobplay”

Edit:
My problem with running away is that not every class can do it with the same effort.. I mean as a power-necro, it’s almost impossible to get away, so I just fight ‘til death, I have no chance to run away, while every Warrior with GS can do it.
Ofc I’m not saying it’s cowardly, I just take it as I won and they had to run away. But if they come back after regenerating I’m a bit angry

My favourite is thiefs who try and burst you, fail, either die or run away, and in either case come back with 2-3 other thiefs, a mes and an ele to kill you, THEN whisper calling your build ‘noob’. Makes me laugh every time.

Every day i roam with my ranger minimum 1 d/p thief calls me nub because i put sicem on them and kill them. Just dp thieves, nobody else

If it’s not a duel there is nothing wrong with resetting a fight. If you constantly reset and decide to be an kitten about it you will be made fun of.

I had a thief try to jump me while I was flipping a camp, I forced him to hide in stealth long enough that the camp flipped. Knowing he wouldn’t fight me in the guards I chased him all the way to the next camp where he had guards on his side and he still ran. He ended up whispering me laughing that I couldn’t catch him. I told him congratulations you can run like a little kitten in a pvp game mode.

McWolfy.5924:

Every day i roam with my ranger minimum 1 d/p thief calls me nub because i put sicem on them and kill them. Just dp thieves, nobody else

Yea when a ranger owns a thief it is Always an angry whisper. Sour losers lol.

I get killed and ganked all the time. Right now on one of our opponent server there is some kind of thief guild. Not the best thiefs in the world but solo you have little chance against them. I hate being ganked but I dont feel the need to whisper to them. They killed me and that’s it. I also never received angry whispers from other players. Just some fight requests for 1-1.

At the end of the day WvW is not sPvP. It’s for whoever can get the upper hand regardless of means. While it may be annoying to fight PU Mesmers, Condi thieves, all the celestial might stacking classes, etc., the truth is that those builds work.

Someone once said, “If you can’t beat them, join them.” This is true. It doesn’t mean we can’t try to push the meta away from these builds on the forums, it just means that you do what you have to to survive and thrive. If that means using rush to escape, do it. Heck if that means using rush to reset the fight, do it. Whatever you can do to beat the other guy is what you should do. Just the way I see it. Not that lame builds don’t get on my nerves…

mesmers and thieves are the biggest trolls in wvw, and the absolute worst players because they abuse a broken system-stealth/clone/Condi spam. Many players find trouble countering this and fall victim so these trolls are used to easy kills because thats what they go for. Killed a silver something rank mesmer from tc 3 times last night, he ran into his camp, even with the guards still killed him. Know what he did the 4th time? Moa’ed me, still killed him. If you kill them, laugh and move on when they try to flame.

There should be an achievement for being killed by your own moa / killing the mesmer who moa’d you (while being a moa).

the most pro ppl I seen are war+thief party in eotm, bursting alone low lvls. This week seen them few times same two ppl. Once they got me and after they kill me I got a whisper “noob necro”

did not reply, but got me thinking how low two ppl can be to put in such effort to kill a low lvl, block him, copy his id, unblock him, whisper him “noob profession”?

spiritus.7983:

the most pro ppl I seen are war+thief party in eotm, bursting alone low lvls. This week seen them few times same two ppl. Once they got me and after they kill me I got a whisper “noob necro”

did not reply, but got me thinking how low two ppl can be to put in such effort to kill a low lvl, block him, copy his id, unblock him, whisper him “noob profession”?

Believe me there are a lot of people for whom doing that is the greatest achievement they’ve ever managed in their lives.

spiritus.7983:

the most pro ppl I seen are war+thief party in eotm, bursting alone low lvls. This week seen them few times same two ppl. Once they got me and after they kill me I got a whisper “noob necro”

did not reply, but got me thinking how low two ppl can be to put in such effort to kill a low lvl, block him, copy his id, unblock him, whisper him “noob profession”?

Actually, you can whisper to someone without unblocking him

Most of the people that take the time to whisper something juvenile after a fight are children, and aren’t worth the time or bother. So what if someone killed you in a fight, or someone blames you for “resetting” a fight, etc……people die and reset, kite, whatever you want to call it all the time in wvw. Nothing new, and certainly not worth making some teeny-bopper comment in whisper……that just makes one look like an idiot, imo.

After a fight, no matter the outcome, I will chuckle, shrug and continue on. After really good fights, I will usually whisper something respectful or at least salute or bow, if I am still alive, and/or if I have the time. Good fights are the only time I think it is worth making a whisper……if just to congratulate the other person for a good fight.

got another hate message on my thief last night, everyone on the map got a nice laugh out of it

Some kind of mentality where once one’s cheap gimmicks are broken and they are beaten, they get on their soap box about how op every other class is but theirs.

blakdoxa.7520:

Some kind of mentality where once one’s cheap gimmicks are broken and they are beaten, they get on their soap box about how op every other class is but theirs.

essentially that, some people cant stand losing and assume everyone who beats them is a cheating jerk

WvW is massive, running away is a tactic, resetting is a tactic. Anyone should be able to use them in a massive zone like WvW.

If they flame you for resetting, tell them to go play sPvP where it’s harder to reset.

Nike warrior is always moral loser.

Moral loser? What does that even mean?

If you receive angry whispers, that means you did well.

Junkpile.7439:

Nike warrior is always moral loser.

/snicker

:D

if you didnt win by using exploits or cheats, ur win is legit, the other side is a sore loser

Junkpile.7439:

Nike warrior is always moral loser.

I see them more as a succesfull troll

LOL PU Mesmer has no right to be angry at anyone or anything – good job owning that scrub

There are no rules in WvW it is the Wild West – Kill or be Killed that is the law no excuses

killahmayne.9518:

So I was using a Hammer/GS Warrior, versus a PU Condi Mesmer, with 5 guard stacks at that while I had none.

After about 8 minutes of frustration, I finally managed to take him down.

He then proceeds to flame me accusing me of resetting the fight (I never reset the fight) and running (I never ran either) then eventually he blocks me. I kind of find it ironically because a PU condi mesmer’s playstyle is pretty much just spam clones, stealth, teleports, winds of chaos, torment block, etc.

Which got me thinking, when classes that have ranged weapons like rangers use sword or GS to create distance, or mesmers and thieves use stealth and teleports to do the same thing, it’s called kiting. But when a Warrior uses rush to create distance for whatever reason, it’s called cheesy or called “running”. In my case I used it to wait for my cooldown on my Berserker Stance which was about to be up in 7-8 seconds and it isn’t like I completely avoid my opponent for 20+ seconds till Healing Signet heals me full. Even then, if you can’t attack or damage me, then that’s your fault and the fault of your build.

The difference is, the Warrior is usually full melee while the other class is ranged. A Warrior isn’t doing damage at 1,200 range. I think people got their concepts of kiting and running mixed up.

Would like to know other people’s thoughts about this.

Welcome to the MMORPG community where almost no one understands the difficulty of other classes and when they get wrecked they blame the class or build for being cheese rather then you know the actual reason, they weren’t as good as you.

I love being called a noob after I slaughter them…makes my ENTIRE night :-D

I have a rage story im sure all of you will love
So one day I was taking my daily head count in my favorite spot: Windmill below South Camp. I was counting all the beautiful charr heads and hides I had collected, when all of the sudden a necromancer and a warrior start walking towards me! I am usually alone because no one really likes running with a thief who takes all the heads for himself
Anyways, I was so excited to have some company, until the warrior hits me with two arrows straight in the chest! You could imagine my shock! Than the necromancer points his mangled finger at me, and I know it is time for me to get some more heads for my collection. So, I proceed to properly obliterate the two fiends, properly collecting their heads with the magic spike that flies out of the sky. I think to myself, “how nice, now I have another charr head and this human’s beautiful sword! What a lovely addition!”. However, the necromancer’s head starts to talk to me. I was positively frightened and shot it a few more times, thinking that should properly put an end to it, but it kept talking! It said it had other bodies it could easily kill me with! Obviously I told it that nothing could kill me for I was immortal! But, this foolish little necromancer continues to come back to the windmill as a mesmer, guardian, and thief. He claims that it is because my pistol’s 45 caliber hollow point bullets are to powerful for his meager little human body to withstand, and says I should use a weapon that requires skill to utilize to best a foe. This was fairly offending, so I take my big bad dagger out of my back pack and i carve him into itty bitty pieces. But this isn’t enough! The death only fueled the necromancer’s passion! He began to taunt me with talk of my inferiority. This really got my blood boiling, so I took out my pistol and shot his mouth shut. That was the last I heard of that necromancer and his little warrior buddy. I did see them the next day at the local Bluevale, not sure what they were doing, but they ran away as soon as I tried to say high to them
All I want are some friends to share in all of the kills I have, but no one likes the big bad thieves

Cheese VS Cheese

That’s all WvW is nowadays.

Any build that you can walk away from at a leisurely pace without taking damage is not op, ie. PU.

In saying that sometimes when I beat someone on my mesmer I get whispered about being dirty pu scum irrespective of the build Im using. I dont use any PU builds but get accused of being PU scum. Lol.

Those people who whisper me sound like some of the people in here.

Let me teach you an important lesson about most games. If you die…its usually your own fault, not the game’s, not cheese builds, not your opponent’s. When you recognize your mistakes you can improve as a player and defeat your opponents. Running into fights with the same strategy everytime is silly.

Strategy Up. And yes running is an acceptable strategy. In fact i do more running from gank squads these days than actual fighting. :p

I never understood the “flame person and block them” kinda stuff. It sounds like something a person with the mentality of a ten year old would do (no offense to any actual children; I’m referring to grown people that have no place acting like that). But then again this is an MMO…

I mean talking trash is one thing, but talking trash while being afraid of what people will say back is kinda dumb too. You can’t expect to hit someone without taking some back.

Although, a lot of people just get angry and don’t behave rationally in these cases; it’s often a temporary thing. Sometimes, they’re just legitimately angry and bitter people, but that’s a problem with them, not you, and you should adjust accordingly. People who try to always win over every slight and petty squabble are living a pretty pitiful existence, after all. It’s kinda like when I see some middle age shaggy fellow yelling at and insulting people. At the end of the day, I just feel a bit offended, but understand that the person will probably always be miserable for the rest of their lives as they eat their tv dinners and paying off debts they’ll never pay off and are too busy putting others down to improve their own lives. But then again, what’s the point of even judging such a person?

Just let them have their little victory. It’s a rare sight for them. They’ll never realize that being killed in a video game isn’t the end of the world, and thus they will scream. You most likely have much greater things to hope for.

tl;dr don’t waste your time with trash. They are that way for a reason; because they seek to “win” against other people and put them down. Following that game isn’t really a good idea. A lot of people will never grow up, despite legally being considered adults. Once you realize this, this actually becomes pretty funny.

Of course, I think many people have an “idea” of how the game should be played, and get offended when this gets violated. It’s much like in real life, how when people’s values collide, and decide how others should run their lives, they can’t handle it and act rudely.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

This comes up every once in a while:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Cowardly-Warriors/first

Whenever it does I just quote my response:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I think only one person really understood why a warrior would do this, or rather, why any and all classes do this:

a) It’s a valid tactic used to reset a fight. Much in the same way that a thief will stealth or use SR, it’s to provide some space for healing or to simply retreat from a fight that you are sure you are going to die in. Do you sit there and let people kill you if you have no chance? Getting away isn’t cowardly, it’s smart.

b) I’ve used GS rush and WA many times to bait people. I have picked off entire groups of 10 or more one or two at a time by having them chase, one or two getting really close, and then I swap to either my hammer or axe with a sigil of hydromancy that effectively roots them for 2 seconds and go to town. One down. Who’s next?

c) If you are not smart enough to realize when it’s simply time to get the hell out of dodge, and you’re willing to die for no reason, that’s your problem. Every player of every type of class I’ve come across has used various ways of escaping me, and it’s usually when they’ve taken a few hits they know they can’t manage long-term. Elementalist swaps to earth for stability and then air and flashes the hell out. Necro switches to lich or plague form and says cya! Mesmer spawns clones and phantasms, swaps and blinks, veils and gets away. Engi, holy crap, ever see an engi traited for mobility make an escape? You can chase one around the map ten times over. Ranger, came across one today that used his skills brilliantly. He would tap about-face, hit lightning reflexes, then tap about face again. Sword 2 and GS 3 to get even further away. He was completely uncatchable. There were 6 of us and one of him. He used his brain and evaded death while we tried helplessly to chase him down halfway across the map. Thief? I don’t think I even need to mention thief, do I? Guardians will pop Retreat, Save Yourselves, invul, and sometimes even a book not to speed away, but to stop you from being able to kill them before they get to where they’re going (usually leading you right into the group just around the corner that you foolishly chased him alone into).

A smart player uses these various methods of escape for a lot of different reasons. Oftentimes, if you see me using Rush, I’m baiting you. Come after me, do it. Break away from your group to chase me. Then I’ll turn around and crack your skull open. Your fault. Not mine.

When I first started playing WvW, I used to think the same thing: cowards. Why do they run? The longer I played, the more I understood. It’s a very simple thing: if you want to sit there and die for no reason whatsoever, I mean really knowingly die, you haven’t learned to be smart enough not to yet.

Catch me if you dare can.

It’s not even about resetting the fight most of the time, but simply gaining distance for room to regen or get your skills off CD. Don’t let it get to you.

Yes! Read this quote and simply had to say, totally right on the mark! Strategy and tactic definitely plays into combat. Unless players are dueling each other, why should someone stay if they know they are going to be defeated. If it’s heroic to stay and die, then it would also mean being heroic is being dumb.

I wouldn’t worry about the complainers calling a tactical retreat as cowardice. If they’re so pro, they should be able to catch me. Reading threads like these makes you wonder, what happened to all the nice players? You come across a few, but then the rest are unnecessarily being plain, mean.

Sreoom.3690:

I love being called a noob after I slaughter them…makes my ENTIRE night :-D

Hahah I dont get those people at all. If you are a noob, and you slaughter them like crazy. What are they according to themselves. Some kind of super noob?

Actually last week I had the opposite of a double standard as describe above..
I was with a new character getting the Obsidian JP at level 40 or smt. Upon entering, I got blasted immediately by a enemy player.
Imagine my big surprise receiving a whisper when I was trying to get up from downed state again, stating "sorry dude..didnt see you were upscaled that much ? What is a low level doing here? "

I replied that I was gonna try the JP and he guided me instead of making my life miserable at the end.

So, a double standard can be positive..instead of staying in role and kill the enemy, understand the purpose of being somewhere from a player’s perspective andhelp out.
best encounter ever

i love going into a map (on which I am outnumbered) and ganking a few yaks or ruins for myself (yay new dailies) only to be assaulted by 5 people roaming together and them dancing as if somehow jumping a lone player who was literally ignoring them was some great accomplishment.

What’s better is coming across the same group moments later and sitting beside one of them when they went AFK and then fighting/beating them when they came back to their computer. Oops.

ArchonWing.9480:

I never understood the “flame person and block them” kinda stuff. It sounds like something a person with the mentality of a ten year old would do (no offense to any actual children; I’m referring to grown people that have no place acting like that). But then again this is an MMO…

I mean talking trash is one thing, but talking trash while being afraid of what people will say back is kinda dumb too. You can’t expect to hit someone without taking some back.

Although, a lot of people just get angry and don’t behave rationally in these cases; it’s often a temporary thing. Sometimes, they’re just legitimately angry and bitter people, but that’s a problem with them, not you, and you should adjust accordingly. People who try to always win over every slight and petty squabble are living a pretty pitiful existence, after all. It’s kinda like when I see some middle age shaggy fellow yelling at and insulting people. At the end of the day, I just feel a bit offended, but understand that the person will probably always be miserable for the rest of their lives as they eat their tv dinners and paying off debts they’ll never pay off and are too busy putting others down to improve their own lives. But then again, what’s the point of even judging such a person?

Just let them have their little victory. It’s a rare sight for them. They’ll never realize that being killed in a video game isn’t the end of the world, and thus they will scream. You most likely have much greater things to hope for.

tl;dr don’t waste your time with trash. They are that way for a reason; because they seek to “win” against other people and put them down. Following that game isn’t really a good idea. A lot of people will never grow up, despite legally being considered adults. Once you realize this, this actually becomes pretty funny.

Of course, I think many people have an “idea” of how the game should be played, and get offended when this gets violated. It’s much like in real life, how when people’s values collide, and decide how others should run their lives, they can’t handle it and act rudely.

Yeah, I’ve actually noticed that with 80% of people who initiate the trash talk against me. They’ll talk their usual bull, then after like 1 or 2 minutes they will block you. Sometimes they block you immediately lol.

Well I don’t like to delve deep into other people’s problems, especially over the internet. People who take big pride and have an ego larger than life are usually the ones who make up grandiose excuses to why they died.

Even in WvW, although the fight may not be a proper duel although it is 1v1. I will usually respect the etiquette that comes along with it, i.e: not resetting fights, not stomping (if it’s a decent fight usually) although I know that there usually isn’t any honour in WvW. Even if I lose and the guy stomps me in a 1v1 I don’t really care, I lose, accept it and move on.

Where I was getting at mainly is that there is a perceived grey line between kiting and running. When classes like rangers use the sword to open the distance to switch to longbow, it’s called kiting. Or when a mesmer uses stealth to open the gap. But when Warriors open the distance with Rush to avoid damage and look for a better opportunity, it is called running. Now I would understand it if all you did was run and not fight for like 30 seconds plus. Well, I guess people just don’t use logic or are just frustrated and angry.