Guild Wars 2

zerospin.8604:

Allying WITH the leading server is indeed dishonorable.

Let’s face it. This game doesn’t even remotely know what the word honor means. Ironically when a player acts dishonorably, he is rewarded with badges of honor.

Desolation has been constantly double teamed in almost every match up this year. And it is happening right now with Visunah Square vs Baruch Bay vs Desolation.

I don’t know know if the enemy servers have made any pacts or not. And I won’t speculate on that.

We are outmanned most of the time, so that probably encourages both #1 and #2 server constantly pick us. I gave several times I have witnesses enemy teams just passing each other or even stand next to each other, not attacking each other (no, I am NOT talking about preparation for gvg). Pity I took screen shots of them so very rarely, but since this is a legit tactic, so why even to report it?

This is how “well” the 1vs1vs1 works. In reality it is 2 stronger with superior numbers and coverage vs 1 weaker with much less active WvWvW players. Exactly like school yard bullies. And the developers seem to be sympathizing with the bullies as they are even considering rewarding them more.

Leohan.1096:

Entropy.4732:

Where I come from “Pride” and “Honor” are good things. I fight fair, I play fair, I don’t game the system, look for exploits, pull sketchy moves, cheat, steal, or anything of the kind. I’m one of those rare people who still pays for music and movies on the internet.

What’s interesting is that this debate has been raging since the birth of actual war throughout the ages. The two arguments are always the same. One side argues that even in a time of war there are certain rules of honorable conduct most sides must adhere to. Treatment of POW’s, use of torture, etc. The Geneva Conventions in RL were written to try and establish these rules of war. Then there’s the other side, which argues that war is hell and any tactic that allows you to win is justified. This attitude has led to genocide, human rights atrocities, etc. In this context we are in a war simulator, so the standard of what is immoral is clearly altered. Although if torture was possible in the game I have NO doubt some servers would resort to it.

In my mind, there SHOULD be honor during wartime (fictional or otherwise) and certain tactics should be off limits for WvW matches such as:

1) Coordinated, intentional double-teaming.
2) Spying
3) Sabotage (building useless siege in an enemy’s keep to waste supply)
4) Hacking/exploits
5) Spawn camping

The ancient Greeks had an interesting debate over this very thing. It was often common practice on the battlefield to sacrifice your POW’s to your gods. Not only did it boost morale among your ranks but it also struck fear into the enemy. Most Greeks frowned on human sacrifice and considered it deplorable, but there were some who engaged in it during wartime regardless, sparking a national debate. The general consensus was that it was a dishonorable practice. Achilles broke this taboo during the war with Troy after his lover, Patroclus, was killed in combat. He swore to sacrifice any trojan who was captured alive. Some argue that this why the gods punished him.

So let me get this straight with your logic. You think the allies in World War 2 were all cowards had no pride or honor? Should have not Coordinated, intentional double-teaming.
I guess France, Poland, the United Kingdom, British Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Newfoundland and South Africa). The Soviet Union, the United States of America. China and other Allies included Belgium, Brazil, Czechoslovakia, Free Danes, Ethiopia, Greece, India, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway and Yugoslavia.

All these countries were not playing fair against Germany, Italy and Japan.
Well I guess they should have all kept to themselves and dealt with the situation on their own for they would have had honor, pride and would have lost fair to their attackers.

No one is sacrificing Invaders (POW’s). Unless one is just having fun running head into zerg’s. Which is just stupid fun sometimes.

Obviously if you read my post more carefully I stated “In this context we are in a war simulator, so the standard of what is immoral is clearly altered.” That was in reference to the fact that yes, in RL war alliances are not considered cheating or dishonorable. Of course not. But in the context of WvW, secretly coordinating double-teaming with another server IS immoral and tantamount to cheating because it violates the whole premise of “may the best server win out of 3”. Anet may have intended three servers fighting to inadvertently balence eachother. But I guarantee you they did NOT intend commanders communicating outside game to gang up on weaker servers. If you want a WW2 analogy to what double-teaming in WvW would be, it would be allied forces secretly collaborating with the Third Reich Germans in order to destabilize Russia.

Copied from the “Server Match us is terrible” thread as it applies even more here:

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

The Strongest Server in a Tier will take whatever they can hold from the other two opponents. They might focus the Middle Server if the scores are close or the Middle Server has a Coverage Period where they are dominant.

The Middle Server will also take whatever they can hold from the other two Servers, which (since they aren’t as strong as the dominant Server) means mostly taking and holding objectives from the Weakest Server. They might focus the Strongest Server if the scores are close.

The Weakest Server will try to take and hold whatever it can which (outside of especially close matches) isn’t much. They might focus the Middle Server if the scores are close.

There is rarely ever a reason for the Weakest Server to target and draw the attention of the Strongest Server, meaning that the chances of the Strongest Server in a match ever truly facing a sustained 2v1 are very small.

It can happen in small, localized, isolated incidents but with the way Scores and Ratings are calculated it just doesn’t make sense for a sustained one to occur…

and that is a problem.

So my server Janthir is in 3rd place against Darkhaven 2nd and Northern Shiverpeaks 1st, at this moment. They must be double teaming us, it the only logical explanation. I mean how else can it be explained, they must have no honor, no pride and just cowards.

So if I was to talk to a Darkhaven commander or guild from another server and come to a understanding of lets attack the Northern Shiverpeaks borderlands, as the map is designed to do, take over the keeps and have our understanding explode in a giant 3 way fight for the Garrison. This is cheating? So what if this happens anyways and never talked to any one from another server ever? (By the way never have allied with any one myself). They’re already statements saying the natural flow is ok with most. But the problem is being social with anyone outside your server is against some rules?

Does one call cheaters and planned doubled team every time it happens? Then give up because it not fair? Or does one try their best to work with your server on the map and pull through the onslaught?

I have run into this on Borderlands before, Janthir home land had everything but, this one tower and both the other servers were protecting it (working together). Was it hard? Was it challenging and took hours worth of work to take the tower from them? Yes it was. However it was some of the most awesome, fun times I have had in battle.

Does it suck, when double team happens yes, but its not cheating. No matter how much others want to label it. I have never, in 9 months of gaming talked to other people from another server (expect guild mates) and I still defend, that this is a legit way to fight the stronger server and have a chance to win.

Now does the weaker server get picked on at times? Yes of course they are going to be. Do you always kill the Gold Champion first or take out the peons first when fighting a boss?
There are choices each player, commander and guild have to make who should we focus on at this moment, who should we communicate with? It’s a social, player killing format. Talking with my follow commanders and helping each other achieve something is fun. If a player decides to talk to someone on another server and play nice with them, it’s a valid option.

Until I see the paragraph in the user agreement about not being able to talk to other people on other servers for the purpose of talking about World vs World, it will remain valid.

Most of the time 2v1 is because of circumstance. People are like water, they almost always flow the path that offers the least resistance. Sure, there probably are servers that coordinate attacks and such but that’s just the nature of WvWvW. It’s frustrating at times when your server is on the receiving end of it but you have to keep fighting or it will never end.

Leohan.1096:

So my server Janthir is in 3rd place against Darkhaven 2nd and Northern Shiverpeaks 1st, at this moment. They must be double teaming us, it the only logical explanation. I mean how else can it be explained, they must have no honor, no pride and just cowards.

So if I was to talk to a Darkhaven commander or guild from another server and come to a understanding of lets attack the Northern Shiverpeaks borderlands, as the map is designed to do, take over the keeps and have our understanding explode in a giant 3 way fight for the Garrison. This is cheating? So what if this happens anyways and never talked to any one from another server ever? (By the way never have allied with any one myself). They’re already statements saying the natural flow is ok with most. But the problem is being social with anyone outside your server is against some rules?

Does one call cheaters and planned doubled team every time it happens? Then give up because it not fair? Or does one try their best to work with your server on the map and pull through the onslaught?

I have run into this on Borderlands before, Janthir home land had everything but, this one tower and both the other servers were protecting it (working together). Was it hard? Was it challenging and took hours worth of work to take the tower from them? Yes it was. However it was some of the most awesome, fun times I have had in battle.

Does it suck, when double team happens yes, but its not cheating. No matter how much others want to label it. I have never, in 9 months of gaming talked to other people from another server (expect guild mates) and I still defend, that this is a legit way to fight the stronger server and have a chance to win.

Now does the weaker server get picked on at times? Yes of course they are going to be. Do you always kill the Gold Champion first or take out the peons first when fighting a boss?
There are choices each player, commander and guild have to make who should we focus on at this moment, who should we communicate with? It’s a social, player killing format. Talking with my follow commanders and helping each other achieve something is fun. If a player decides to talk to someone on another server and play nice with them, it’s a valid option.

Until I see the paragraph in the user agreement about not being able to talk to other people on other servers for the purpose of talking about World vs World, it will remain valid.

To be perfectly honest I’m on NSP and I started this thread because of your server, IOJ’s actions. You may not have been aware of this, but the situation was that IOJ commanders approached NSP at the beginning of the match up and wanted us to double-team DH together. Our commanders refused, because we have a policy on NSP of never double teaming. A policy I’m attempting to enforce. In retaliation, IOJ commanders joined forces with DH and double teamed NSP into the ground. It got so bad that it was literally DH hitting our keep as hard as they could while IOJ turtled our camps so DH could take our keep. I got so fed up with it that I posted about it on the IOJ/NSP/DH thread. You can read the responses there. Several IOJ commanders admitted to striking a deal with certain DH commanders and coordinating attacks to crush NSP because IOJ was “offended” that we wouldn’t team up with them. There was some apologies and excuses and a lot of your “who cares, deal with it” arguments. The result though is that DH and IOJ are NOT collaborating this round. And neither is DH and NSP. The game is being played as it should be played. 3v3. And that’s why IOJ is losing. Because when you play fair a different set of factors determine who’s winning. Mainly skill and stratigy. Also NSP is super kitten ed off and bringing it. I am seeing moderate, light forum agreements among NSP and IOJ to stay out if eachother’s BL’s (which I don’t approve of but is less immoral than commanders communicating directly out of game). I know Anet will never officially condemn this double teaming behavior, but I’m hoping that it gets stigmatized by the WvW community in general, so less people do it.

Your policy of no double teaming went out the window when you guys took first though now didn’t it. Lol….

And how do you know who talks to who in game? You don’t. How is that cheating? It isn’t. It’s a MMO. It’s WvWvW. Not a three way game of Go-Fish.

The entire point of the initial suggestion (I was the first to bring the suggestion to NSP, PUBLICLY on the forums) was because IoJ knows what DH is capable of. If they were playing like they soon will be come Monday, it’d be the same scores as last week. DH is insane on the weekdays. So we simply suggested “Hey lets not pick on each other, because DH is gonna do that for us anyhow…let’s just focus them”.

Now other actions (Ehem the SM ninja) made one person extremely mad and the forums spiraled out of control with threats of who’s focusing who when and where. Who’s calling upon Commanders from the other server to help stomp out someone else etc. No one double teamed your server last week. You just lost. That loss I feel is what triggered this post in the first place.

As many people have pointed out, over and over again, Anet encourages the 2 weaker servers teaming up against the Top Spot server in the match. Encourages it. Cheating? No. Smart?

Absolutely.

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Your policy of no double teaming went out the window when you guys took first though now didn’t it. Lol….

And how do you know who talks to who in game? You don’t. How is that cheating? It isn’t. It’s a MMO. It’s WvWvW. Not a three way game of Go-Fish.

The entire point of the initial suggestion (I was the first to bring the suggestion to NSP, PUBLICLY on the forums) was because IoJ knows what DH is capable of. If they were playing like they soon will be come Monday, it’d be the same scores as last week. DH is insane on the weekdays. So we simply suggested “Hey lets not pick on each other, because DH is gonna do that for us anyhow…let’s just focus them”.

Now other actions (Ehem the SM ninja) made one person extremely mad and the forums spiraled out of control with threats of who’s focusing who when and where. Who’s calling upon Commanders from the other server to help stomp out someone else etc. No one double teamed your server last week. You just lost. That loss I feel is what triggered this post in the first place.

As many people have pointed out, over and over again, Anet encourages the 2 weaker servers teaming up against the Top Spot server in the match. Encourages it. Cheating? No. Smart?

Absolutely.

Thank you for confirming that IOJ did approch NSP initially to double team. And thank you for stepping forward as one of it’s architects. As far as I know, NSP is not double teaming. We’re simply winning. Probably because DH is on a vacation or something and IOJ is left to fight on their own. I didn’t start this thread because we lost, we were losing all week. I have no problem losing squarely. I started it because of the incidents with IOJ supply camp camping for DH to cut off our supply to the keep. Which I consider dishonorable. Each server should fight for their own territory.

But we’re devolving into a specific match up thread and the point of this post was to start a discussion / debate about the concept of double teaming and it’s ethics. You know where I stand. I’m against it because I think the entire point of WvW is to fight in order to gain glory and rankings for YOUR server. Not simply to win at any cost nessesary. We clearly disagree on this front. In your mind there’s nothing wrong with DT’ing. In mine there is. We will never see eye to eye on this. IOJ is into alliences and double teaming. NSP clearly is not. it’s a clash of ideology.

I’m hoping though that this debate will motivate each server and the commanders in those servers to figure out where they stand on this issue.

Entropy.4732:

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Your policy of no double teaming went out the window when you guys took first though now didn’t it. Lol….

And how do you know who talks to who in game? You don’t. How is that cheating? It isn’t. It’s a MMO. It’s WvWvW. Not a three way game of Go-Fish.

The entire point of the initial suggestion (I was the first to bring the suggestion to NSP, PUBLICLY on the forums) was because IoJ knows what DH is capable of. If they were playing like they soon will be come Monday, it’d be the same scores as last week. DH is insane on the weekdays. So we simply suggested “Hey lets not pick on each other, because DH is gonna do that for us anyhow…let’s just focus them”.

Now other actions (Ehem the SM ninja) made one person extremely mad and the forums spiraled out of control with threats of who’s focusing who when and where. Who’s calling upon Commanders from the other server to help stomp out someone else etc. No one double teamed your server last week. You just lost. That loss I feel is what triggered this post in the first place.

As many people have pointed out, over and over again, Anet encourages the 2 weaker servers teaming up against the Top Spot server in the match. Encourages it. Cheating? No. Smart?

Absolutely.

Thank you for confirming that IOJ did approch NSP initially to double team. And thank you for stepping forward as one of it’s architects. As far as I know, NSP is not double teaming. We’re simply winning. Probably because DH is on a vacation or something and IOJ is left to fight on their own. I didn’t start this thread because we lost, we were losing all week. I have no problem losing squarely. I started it because of the incidents with IOJ supply camp camping for DH to cut off our supply to the keep. Which I consider dishonorable. Each server should fight for their own territory.

But we’re devolving into a specific match up thread and the point of this post was to start a discussion / debate about the concept of double teaming and it’s ethics. You know where I stand. I’m against it because I think the entire point of WvW is to fight in order to gain glory and rankings for YOUR server. Not simply to win at any cost nessesary. We clearly disagree on this front. In your mind there’s nothing wrong with DT’ing. In mine there is. We will never see eye to eye on this. IOJ is into alliences and double teaming. NSP clearly is not. it’s a clash of ideology.

I’m hoping though that this debate will motivate each server and the commanders in those servers to figure out where they stand on this issue.

I will direct you quickly to our match up thread, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/6-21-DH-IoJ-NSP-1/page/12 , Here on this page you will find YOUR commander proposing a sort of double team instead of us this time. I do believe that for the past couple days while we do hit each other we have both been focusing mainly DH.

Banzie.5248:

Entropy.4732:

Crimson Magdelana.9024:

Your policy of no double teaming went out the window when you guys took first though now didn’t it. Lol….

And how do you know who talks to who in game? You don’t. How is that cheating? It isn’t. It’s a MMO. It’s WvWvW. Not a three way game of Go-Fish.

The entire point of the initial suggestion (I was the first to bring the suggestion to NSP, PUBLICLY on the forums) was because IoJ knows what DH is capable of. If they were playing like they soon will be come Monday, it’d be the same scores as last week. DH is insane on the weekdays. So we simply suggested “Hey lets not pick on each other, because DH is gonna do that for us anyhow…let’s just focus them”.

Now other actions (Ehem the SM ninja) made one person extremely mad and the forums spiraled out of control with threats of who’s focusing who when and where. Who’s calling upon Commanders from the other server to help stomp out someone else etc. No one double teamed your server last week. You just lost. That loss I feel is what triggered this post in the first place.

As many people have pointed out, over and over again, Anet encourages the 2 weaker servers teaming up against the Top Spot server in the match. Encourages it. Cheating? No. Smart?

Absolutely.

Thank you for confirming that IOJ did approch NSP initially to double team. And thank you for stepping forward as one of it’s architects. As far as I know, NSP is not double teaming. We’re simply winning. Probably because DH is on a vacation or something and IOJ is left to fight on their own. I didn’t start this thread because we lost, we were losing all week. I have no problem losing squarely. I started it because of the incidents with IOJ supply camp camping for DH to cut off our supply to the keep. Which I consider dishonorable. Each server should fight for their own territory.

But we’re devolving into a specific match up thread and the point of this post was to start a discussion / debate about the concept of double teaming and it’s ethics. You know where I stand. I’m against it because I think the entire point of WvW is to fight in order to gain glory and rankings for YOUR server. Not simply to win at any cost nessesary. We clearly disagree on this front. In your mind there’s nothing wrong with DT’ing. In mine there is. We will never see eye to eye on this. IOJ is into alliences and double teaming. NSP clearly is not. it’s a clash of ideology.

I’m hoping though that this debate will motivate each server and the commanders in those servers to figure out where they stand on this issue.

I will direct you quickly to our match up thread, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups/6-21-DH-IoJ-NSP-1/page/12 , Here on this page you will find YOUR commander proposing a sort of double team instead of us this time. I do believe that for the past couple days while we do hit each other we have both been focusing mainly DH.

I couldn’t find it in the link, but I believe you. If it’s the comments about agreeing to stay away from eachother’s (NSP & IOJ) borderlands, but still fight in EB then I addressed it in a previous post. Although it’s not a direct DT, I’m still against it. And I hope the other NSP commanders don’t follow that guy’s suggestions. If there’s some other post you’re referring to, I highly doubt a DT is in effect with IOJ. I just came from a 4 hour long battle to the death with IOJ in ogres.

Regardless, this is specific server gossip. Let’s focus on Double Teaming in general for future posts.

OMFG!

First I didn’t read the whole thread so I will just reply to the OP.

I just want to ask the question to the OP. How did you conclude that IoJ and DH have double teamed you? Is it because we hit your towers at the same time? If that’s so. Can we say you and DH are double teaming us now that you are hitting our towers and BL at the same time? It will just make you a Hypocrite ain’t it?

Then again, even if you double team us, we don’t care! Double teaming is part of the game, if it is illegal then maybe we all have been kicked out of WvW by now. All servers one time or another need to double team another server.

While we in IoJ have been doubled teamed a lot but do you see us whining about it? NO! Because we are mature enough to accept that this is part of the game.

Even in real life double teaming one country is always exercised (look at Iraq and Afghanistan).

We cannot stop this (double teaming). You can only adapt to it.

Just my four cents worth.

Tukmolytes.3467:

OMFG!

First I didn’t read the whole thread so I will just reply to the OP.

I just want to ask the question to the OP. How did you conclude that IoJ and DH have double teamed you? Is it because we hit your towers at the same time? If that’s so. Can we say you and DH are double teaming us now that you are hitting our towers and BL at the same time? It will just make you a Hypocrite ain’t it?

Then again, even if you double team us, we don’t care! Double teaming is part of the game, if it is illegal then maybe we all have been kicked out of WvW by now. All servers one time or another need to double team another server.

While we in IoJ have been doubled teamed a lot but do you see us whining about it? NO! Because we are mature enough to accept that this is part of the game.

Even in real life double teaming one country is always exercised (look at Iraq and Afghanistan).

We cannot stop this (double teaming). You can only adapt to it.

Just my four cents worth.

I concluded that IOJ collaborated with DH commanders to double team NSP from this post by one of your commanders:

“I will try to give insight on what happened last night(8 PM EST) and will take full responsibility for this supposedly “Double Team” fight on Northern Shiver Peaks.
When I logged in last night to TS Logan from CORE was talking about the forum war here and how it devolved into a shouting match between our three major commanders and NSP. Then supposedly Logan was contacted by a DH commander that they where going to apply pressure on NSP and if IoJ would like to join in. Logan communicated this info to the rest of the commanders to IoJ on EB. It did not have to take much to motivate the commander to focus a bit on NSP and so we left a few scouts (Including me) at Kloven and Wildcreek and see if DH will try to pull a ninja as we hit NSP. After awhile DH started to put pressure on NSP and only came to our end of EB for Rogues and dredge. Logan then felt that it was safe to leave EB and take all the CORE members and take hills in NSP BL and upgrade it and see if he can take all of NSP BL.
After Logan left EB, Debilitator tagged up and took control of the IoJ Zerg. Since we assumed that NSP was still bitter about the forum war, I convinced him to continue to hit NSP and not focus on DH. Since DH was not hitting us except for the odd rush in capping Rogues, I figured it would be a wise move to not give them a reason to hit IoJ. If we hit DH or Stone Mist DH would of pulled out from NSP corner and focus on IoJ, which in turn would of been a “Double Team” on IoJ since NSP would re-cap all there towers and camps and focus on IoJ as well.
So blame me for orchestrating this “Double Team” on NSP because I was the one telling the commander to hit NSP and told the IoJ EB Pugs to not hit DH. If I felt confident enough that NSP would push DH after IoJ took the brunt of the DH zerg. Then I would of taken the opportunity of DH opening to take SM or there towers or keep.
But from what I observed here on the forums and the fact that NSP have repeatedly shown much more focus on IoJ (Took our EB keep 5 times before I got on), Logan and I called the plan on bringing the hammer down on NSP to prevent the hammer on coming down on IoJ. So yes, we did “Double Team” you but it was to prevent Us from getting double teamed in return. Say what you will about the “Double Teaming” as a cheat, but I saw it as a way to prevent a crushing blow to IoJ. If you took the offer to put pressure on DH awhile back, things would of turned out differently last night.

Proud Commander for Isle of Janthar
Laspo Yorick – Mesmer
Samson Longshanks – Warrior"

At this point though, the point is moot. Whatever happened happened. The question proposed in the opening statement is, does this sort of thing bother you? If it doesn’t, then fine. Personally, it does bother me. And it bothers other folks on this thread. It’s a difference of opinion, not QQing. Maybe this is how the game is supposed to be played. Maybe I do need to just accept it as a necessary evil. Personally though, I have the most FUN when I believe that each server is working separately. There’s been a lot of talk about being on the bad end of the DT stick, but being on the good end is also annoying. Winning because you know you’re working with another server feels like less of a victory. Kind of like taking steroids to win an olympic medal. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood the concept of WvW, or am indeed "QQ"ing as some less than polite posters have implied. But I’d much rather win or lose without DT or alliances or any of that bunk. That’s just me. Okay… flame away.

I think it’s a great strategy. In fact, I think it would be a great addition to WvW if Anet added some sort of in-game check-box or vote to allow 2 teams to officially team up so they appear friendly to each other.

It’d certainly (and drastically) shake things up.

I think the bigger issue is population imbalance. If populations are relatively equal, a double teaming situation will likely only be temporary. As a server succeeds and claims more territory, they spread themselves thin. This makes them ripe for picking by the opposing sides, and a double-team naturally happens to bring the sides in line. If the opponents continue to double team after the top team has been whittled down,and is hoarded up in a few keeps/towers, then this is a waste of resources for the two attackers, who are facing a tougher battle than they would have against eachother in other holdings. So the alliance should naturally break up at some point.

The problem where a losing team gets double teamed is a symptom of putting a low population server against two larger population servers. In this matchup, the low pop server is easy pickings always. therefore the logical progression for the winners should be to take keeps from the losing server first, until there’s nothing left, then shore up their home borderlands (and any weakly defended keeps), then go after eachother.

As you can see the problem doesnt come from a 3-way matchup or alliances. the problem comes from huge population differences between servers.

bobross.5034:

I think the bigger issue is population imbalance. If populations are relatively equal, a double teaming situation will likely only be temporary. As a server succeeds and claims more territory, they spread themselves thin. This makes them ripe for picking by the opposing sides, and a double-team naturally happens to bring the sides in line. If the opponents continue to double team after the top team has been whittled down,and is hoarded up in a few keeps/towers, then this is a waste of resources for the two attackers, who are facing a tougher battle than they would have against eachother in other holdings. So the alliance should naturally break up at some point.

The problem where a losing team gets double teamed is a symptom of putting a low population server against two larger population servers. In this matchup, the low pop server is easy pickings always. therefore the logical progression for the winners should be to take keeps from the losing server first, until there’s nothing left, then shore up their home borderlands (and any weakly defended keeps), then go after eachother.

As you can see the problem doesnt come from a 3-way matchup or alliances. the problem comes from huge population differences between servers.

Very smart. Good analysis. I think this is a huge root of the problem as well. If only there was some way for Anet to track the quantity of regular WvW players per server, then match servers based on that population, rather then ranking.

bobross.5034:

I think the bigger issue is population imbalance. If populations are relatively equal, a double teaming situation will likely only be temporary. As a server succeeds and claims more territory, they spread themselves thin. This makes them ripe for picking by the opposing sides, and a double-team naturally happens to bring the sides in line. If the opponents continue to double team after the top team has been whittled down,and is hoarded up in a few keeps/towers, then this is a waste of resources for the two attackers, who are facing a tougher battle than they would have against eachother in other holdings. So the alliance should naturally break up at some point.

The problem where a losing team gets double teamed is a symptom of putting a low population server against two larger population servers. In this matchup, the low pop server is easy pickings always. therefore the logical progression for the winners should be to take keeps from the losing server first, until there’s nothing left, then shore up their home borderlands (and any weakly defended keeps), then go after eachother.

As you can see the problem doesnt come from a 3-way matchup or alliances. the problem comes from huge population differences between servers.

Exactly. Desolation has been badly outmanned so often, it is no longer funny. Despite we have lost every match up for weeks in a row, we are once again fighting against EU rank #1 and #3. How can a server which hasn’t won a single match up in year 2013 be repeatedly pitted against #1?!?!? We have been #3 (last in our match ups) almost every single time, due very simple reason: enemy has much better coverage and more WvWvW players.

Even the enemy feels pity for us and has expressed this in forums.

I hope Arenanet will stop this madness very soon. And I mean next Friday. No more waiting. People are stopping WvWvW and no longer playing Guild Wars 2 because of this. This is a dire urgent situation, which needs to stop now as this is indeed server breaking situation.

People complained that the same WvW matches were stagnant and boring. Now people are complaining that mixing up the matches slightly are too hard. You can’t have it both ways, at some point you need to give it your best effort or work on gaining some quality WvW guilds to your server.

They could lower the random variation formula slightly, but you are still going to get oddball matchups at times. There is no perfect solution that is going to make everyone happy…. there is ALWAYS going to be a server mismatched for some weeks.

Deniara Devious.3948:

bobross.5034:

I think the bigger issue is population imbalance. If populations are relatively equal, a double teaming situation will likely only be temporary. As a server succeeds and claims more territory, they spread themselves thin. This makes them ripe for picking by the opposing sides, and a double-team naturally happens to bring the sides in line. If the opponents continue to double team after the top team has been whittled down,and is hoarded up in a few keeps/towers, then this is a waste of resources for the two attackers, who are facing a tougher battle than they would have against eachother in other holdings. So the alliance should naturally break up at some point.

The problem where a losing team gets double teamed is a symptom of putting a low population server against two larger population servers. In this matchup, the low pop server is easy pickings always. therefore the logical progression for the winners should be to take keeps from the losing server first, until there’s nothing left, then shore up their home borderlands (and any weakly defended keeps), then go after eachother.

As you can see the problem doesnt come from a 3-way matchup or alliances. the problem comes from huge population differences between servers.

Exactly. Desolation has been badly outmanned so often, it is no longer funny. Despite we have lost every match up for weeks in a row, we are once again fighting against EU rank #1 and #3. How can a server which hasn’t won a single match up in year 2013 be repeatedly pitted against #1?!?!? We have been #3 (last in our match ups) almost every single time, due very simple reason: enemy has much better coverage and more WvWvW players.

Even the enemy feels pity for us and has expressed this in forums.

I hope Arenanet will stop this madness very soon. And I mean next Friday. No more waiting. People are stopping WvWvW and no longer playing Guild Wars 2 because of this. This is a dire urgent situation, which needs to stop now as this is indeed server breaking situation.

I’m sorry you guys are in that situation. Sounds terrible. NSP often has an outmanned buff and it’s extremely frustrating. The more I think about it, the more I believe server pop imbalance could really be a big factor in the double-teaming issue. I’m sure there’s a way to match servers based on both skill and number of players who log into WvW. NSP has a large gen pop, but many of those players are PVE focused. Anet would have to set up an algorithm to track player time spent in WvW. Say server A had 150 regular WvW players, Server B had 47, and server C had 50. Server B&C would be matched in one bracket while Server A would be in a different bracket.

Hule.8794:

Double teaming is only problem when strongerst and weakliest server join and stomp middle server.
But its just how 3-way fight works sometimes. Its normal. Not fair, but normal.

it also sucks when the top two team up and roflstomp the weakest…