Guild Wars 2

Im sure there is a bunch of topics in this thread buried somewhere. But I was wondering what people think of this. Yes, I will openly admit the rally system has saved me on multiple occasions, even today. But when half a zerg rallies off a fight in npc area (takes ogres camp for example) that is just wrong in my eyes.

If they keep a downed state in WvW they should at least put a 10sec timer before you can be power rezzed or rallied. Just my personal opinion. Im curious of what others think.

How about asking teammates to bring revive skills like :

Ele : Has signet that can revive a few people
Necro: Has signet that can revive a few people
Warrior: Has banner that can revive a few people
Ranger: Has Pet and Spirit that can revive a few people

Just because people are greedy and want to tag or bring DPS/Personal survival utilities and not res doesnt mean something is OP or broken. You revive your teammates = they dont rally.

On the topic of rallying off monster NPC’s like ogre’s and stuff, it takes a great deal of precision when downed to target them or if they waste their dps on the npc previous to down instead of the enemy, thats 1 less tag or dps you took. If they manage to kill it before your team can kill them, kudos to them, thats skill or choice. However, if rally was changed to you can only rally off other players, that would be a good step.

I don’t like it, but if they keep it they need to balance it, which it currently isn’kittens nearly impossible to kill a ranger in water. I really think they need to get rid of rally of animals as well.

I actually like it and think it forces a little more thinking into the encounters. I would like to see a bit more balance in it though. Ele downed state means survival if there is a tower/keep nearby and the thief down state is just another get away move. Necro fear is a darn lotta fun if there is a handy cliff nearby.

Compare those to the mesmer down state…

Bring long death penalty back imo. After rally, you lose 5-10% health per rally until death. Maybe add a maximum rally to like 3?

Arcturus.5846:

Bring long death penalty back imo. After rally, you lose 5-10% health per rally until death. Maybe add a maximum rally to like 3?

I think there is a maximum rally of 4.

Down state is the number 1 reason I have semi stopped playing GW2. It’s impossible to kill even 1 person if you are outnumbered . I don’t mind dying to a zerg in fact I love to take on larger numbers. But with down state there is absolutely no pt in attacking a larger group you won’t get a single kill because of it. Same goes for defending a keep vs a zerg.

Devon.9061:

Im sure there is a bunch of topics in this thread buried somewhere. But I was wondering what people think of this. Yes, I will openly admit the rally system has saved me on multiple occasions, even today. But when half a zerg rallies off a fight in npc area (takes ogres camp for example) that is just wrong in my eyes.

If they keep a downed state in WvW they should at least put a 10sec timer before you can be power rezzed or rallied. Just my personal opinion. Im curious of what others think.

You are indeed correct. There are dozens of these threads all over the place. At least one seems to crop up a day (this is today’s version lol).

Either way, its widely supported to remove the downed state, and I agree. It’s a gigantic waste of time. The game would flow much better if it was gone. People would adjust, they’d learn not to be so glassy, and they’d also learn to follow the commander and not run off like an excited puppy.

The only way I’d ever personally agree to keep the downed state is if it had it’s own trait line and it had to be fully spec’d into.

For example:

- 10 points allows the down state, but there is a 10% loss in stats for 1 hour.
- 15 points drops the loss to 5%
- 20 points = more downed hp, and your revived faster
- 25 points = No longer a loss in stats
- 30 points = Special abilities to interrupt stomps

Then and only then, I’d think it’d be fair to have, but force people to spec into it, if they wan’t it.

In the end though, it really is no skin off Anet’s back to just do an experiment with it.. remove it for a couple of weeks in WvW and see how it goes.. no harm, no foul.

DeadlySynz.3471:

In the end though, it really is no skin off Anet’s back to just do an experiment with it.. remove it for a couple of weeks in WvW and see how it goes.. no harm, no foul.

The entire game is balanced around having downed state.

They can’t just “experiment” with it.

They “experimented” with revealed.

""How about asking teammates to bring revive skills like :
Ele : Has signet that can revive a few people
Necro: Has signet that can revive a few people
Warrior: Has banner that can revive a few people
Ranger: Has Pet and Spirit that can revive a few people""

Im well aware of these abilities. In fact guardian has one also incase you didnt know.
Ele revive takes 4.5 secs to cast standing still
Necros takes two seconds to cast standing still
Ranger pet will revive a nearby downed ally same with spirit. In a group fight of 20v30 those pets and spirits will die before the actual player in some cases
Warriors now this is the generic revive skill used by everyone and in my opinion the only viable one since it provides other bonuses to the party as well.

The thing is if you are running with a guild / organized group they should not be stoping for 2-4 sec during a fight to revive a person through a skill / manually. If my guild has the organization to not lose a single person and 5 people we downed rally off a pug we have no control over that punishes us. NPC should have a no rally system in WvW. We shouldnt have to wait till they neutralize the ogres/dredge to be able to push in for an attack without worrying of a NPC death rallying them. It takes no “skill” to hit 1 on an npc and pray to god the pug team you are with manages to kill that npc. PvE obviously needs the downed state but this is a WvW thread so we will not go there. It is just a given that downed state hurts the organized groups while pug groups are more rewarded off of it. (In my honest opinion)

“But I was wondering what people think of this.”

Unbalanced waste of time.

They just need to tune down the ressing speed and it’s fine. The pve ressing speed thats meant for fighting bosses that hit ridiculously hard, does not fit into wvw. Rallying should be tuned somehow as well.

The WvW abilities should contain:

Faster finish of a downed enemy, up to 2x faster.
Take less damage while finishing someone off – up to 50% mitigation during the animation + immune to knockback etc.

And so on, not just useless + 1% damage abilities.

Devon.9061:

Im sure there is a bunch of topics in this thread buried somewhere. But I was wondering what people think of this. Yes, I will openly admit the rally system has saved me on multiple occasions, even today. But when half a zerg rallies off a fight in npc area (takes ogres camp for example) that is just wrong in my eyes.

If they keep a downed state in WvW they should at least put a 10sec timer before you can be power rezzed or rallied. Just my personal opinion. Im curious of what others think.

It’s only wrong because ogres and all the other pve NPCs non related to keeps don’t need to be there.

Devon.9061:

Im well aware of these abilities. In fact guardian has one also incase you didnt know.

So does Engineer, although half of it just got nerfed into the ground.

Because Kitten Engineers.

As always, we should compare GW2 WvW to its competition. At the moment, it’s future competition in ESO, but it’s still instructive.

In ESO, all classes will be able to rez out of combat, but only certain specs will be able to rez in combat. That would be a simple solution for WvW.

If you’re downed in combat you have to rez yourself (maybe buff downed state then), or get rezzed by someone with has the skill (Warbanner, Signet of Undeath etc.) or is traited for it. This would add a lot more skill to the game, especially in WvW.

Anet, however, is confused on whether they want WvW to be a casual or hardcore game mode. Is there such a thing as casual PvP though? Seems like an oxymoron, and if there isn’t, WvW is doomed longterm.

My thought on this is quite clear.

Its horribly unbalanced, some professions have flat out superior downed state abilities then other professions, aswell as more damage, aswell as better ways to stomp players themselves. And other professions get shafted, hard.

Ralying on kills is far to simple, the treshold to get a kill credit is set far to low allowing a lot of enemy players to raly on a single kill. Even a kill on an NPC!

-Revisit the downed state of all professions and atleast make an attempt at balancing them, things are so horribly lobsided right now.

-Steeply increase the treshold of ralying on a kill, meaning you need to have inflicted serious damage to that target in order to get the raly on it.

-Limit how many players can raly on a kill, limit it to 3 at most.

-Implement it that under no circumstance can a player raly on a kill if another player is channeling a Finishing move. Meaning gone are the days of ralying on a moa that just died while someone is in the middle of stomping you.

I agree that it should be taken out, at least in WvW. It makes 2v1 or 3v1 way harder than it should be.

IMO rally should be capped at something like 3 people/kill and should have much higher penalty for multiple rallies over a short period of time (or like death penalty in GW1).

Devon.9061:

The thing is if you are running with a guild / organized group they should not be stoping for 2-4 sec during a fight to revive a person through a skill / manually. If my guild has the organization to not lose a single person and 5 people we downed rally off a pug we have no control over that punishes us.

If you consider the PUGs to be so far beneath you that you won’t even res them, then you’re going to have to expect that the enemy that knows how to play as a team (With everyone on their server, not just their own guild) is going to rally.

That is a choice you made in your playstyle that will not benefit you in those situations.

Been a problem for a long time, there needs to be something to make rezzing people harder or alternatively when they are rezzed they are out of action for a while or severely reduced in capabilities so they have to take a chill pill for 20 seconds or so b4 they can re-enter the fray.

Gets kinda old dropping people to have 5 others instantly get them back up when u are already fighting 5v20 or so. We get punished for co-ordinated play to focus on targets to drop them, have a balanced group build with heals/ protection/ retaliation/ stability, good extension to string people out and then focus fire them down. And the push button 1 zerg gets rewarded for more numbers…… ho hum. Makes stability such a key component of any group, basically get a Guardian(or 2) or go home.

Its actually kind of amusing in a kittened way when someone goes down and theres a race as everyone rushes over to either push people away/stack mass dps on the spot or rez.

Its’ like buffing and Heal range in this game, i mean wtf its run here …. stack … run there … stack because the range on buffs/heals is like kittening 1cm, did some dev just roll a 20 sided dice to come up with that idea rather than actually testing the game. The reason DAoC had such great open world combat was as a tank u could roam more than 2 steps from the zerg and be in heal/buff range. So you had these expansive open field fights not revolving around Stacking up constantly.

Thats my rant on kittened design decisions for today, next week i will be moving onto why the kitten are people in my groups names blue rather than hi vis yellow or bright pink or something so they are easy to see in massed combat at a glance.

Problem with the revive skills is: They don’t really revive from dead… only from downed. They have a heavy CD… and are usless for other stuff. They might be useful in a small scale environment like sPvP… but in a big zerg environment I’m sure you can afford a few players to rezz the downed with F. Especially considering that it does not take that long.

Only a problem if there is heavy AoE on them… but I don’t think revive skills will help that much then. Only wasted. I never used one. Even not in sPvP(then I prefer to use an AoE knockback and then rezz until enemy can do too much damage – yes they can use stability… but that happens).

Edit: But talking about survival skills: I usually have some skills to get a bit away from the enemy zerg(now after the update with my engineer I like the rocket boots – also cure immobilized, chilled, crippled). Usually a bad idea to die in heavy AoE… on a not that well organized server where tons of people run in the the fire of 2-3 ACs to rezz you and die themselves. At least try to get away from these.

Just no rallies off of mobs in WvW would work. My thief has little problem killing something random at half health in downed state before he gets stomped.

They also need to seriously balance the downed skills. Some classes have great ones (Ex. Ele, Thief)…. other have HORRID ones… (Ex. Eng).

EnRohbi.2187:

Devon.9061:

The thing is if you are running with a guild / organized group they should not be stoping for 2-4 sec during a fight to revive a person through a skill / manually. If my guild has the organization to not lose a single person and 5 people we downed rally off a pug we have no control over that punishes us.

If you consider the PUGs to be so far beneath you that you won’t even res them, then you’re going to have to expect that the enemy that knows how to play as a team (With everyone on their server, not just their own guild) is going to rally.

That is a choice you made in your playstyle that will not benefit you in those situations.

When our guild pulls back to regroup or runs through and you have a pug just chilling in their zerg or not in our ball than yes it is a wasted effort to go and res him. We would lose more people trying to res a person that wasnt staying close with us than we would leaving him. You are assuming that this PUG is right with us the whole time if he was he would have rallied off of warbanners.

I LOVE rally mechanism, and please it ain’t that of a problem. A good 30 person guild should be able to take down ANY size of zerg. Even if they bring every person on the map, a good 30 man guild will wipe them.

You see 5 people rezz? Jump on them and down those 5, finish off, congratz you just killed 5 more of them. And always keep an interrupt skill in a 2vs1, like the warrior ‘fear me’ you’ll get 3seconds to kill the downed player.

I agree that the underwater rezz power of the ranger pet should get nerfed.

Devon.9061:

They “experimented” with revealed.

""How about asking teammates to bring revive skills like :
Ele : Has signet that can revive a few people
Necro: Has signet that can revive a few people
Warrior: Has banner that can revive a few people
Ranger: Has Pet and Spirit that can revive a few people""

Im well aware of these abilities. In fact guardian has one also incase you didnt know.
Ele revive takes 4.5 secs to cast standing still
Necros takes two seconds to cast standing still
Ranger pet will revive a nearby downed ally same with spirit. In a group fight of 20v30 those pets and spirits will die before the actual player in some cases
Warriors now this is the generic revive skill used by everyone and in my opinion the only viable one since it provides other bonuses to the party as well.

The thing is if you are running with a guild / organized group they should not be stoping for 2-4 sec during a fight to revive a person through a skill / manually. If my guild has the organization to not lose a single person and 5 people we downed rally off a pug we have no control over that punishes us. NPC should have a no rally system in WvW. We shouldnt have to wait till they neutralize the ogres/dredge to be able to push in for an attack without worrying of a NPC death rallying them. It takes no “skill” to hit 1 on an npc and pray to god the pug team you are with manages to kill that npc. PvE obviously needs the downed state but this is a WvW thread so we will not go there. It is just a given that downed state hurts the organized groups while pug groups are more rewarded off of it. (In my honest opinion)

Are you seriously comparing the change on revealed to removing downed state?

Here’s a question for you; how are glass cannons balanced in this game?

I was in no way comparing them. I simply stating that they have experimented with a mechanic in the game before and have reverted the changes revealed was an example. Unless I’m not allowed to prove they have done it before? My bad??

First off your question is irrelevant to the thread.
Second, I personally love fighting glass cannons since its a guarantee win for me.
Third, where the hell did you even come up with that question???

Devon.9061:

I was in now way comparing them. I simply stating that they have experimented with a mechanic in the game before and have reverted the changes revealed was an example. Unless I’m not allowed to prove they have done it before? My bad??

You don’t actually believe that removing the downed state would have about the same effects on the game as adding one (1)(!) second to revealed, do you?

Once again you are viewing it as you want to see it. All I was saying is they have experimented before. You are saying I see revealed and downed state as equal. When in reality they are two different mechanics of the game. One effects very few while the other effects everyone. I advice you take your racing shutters off and read my first sentence. In fact ill bold it for you.