Guild Wars 2

That’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with it.

I had an exciting moment where we pushed from a keep in WvW. I was downed but was able to push back a few invaders before they were able to finish me and when they came in the 2nd time my allies had caught up and pushed them back.

For sPvP ArenaNet has made an artistic choice that has strategic relevance.

Personally I think for most people the issue they have with the downed state is that they historically expect that when a persons health his zero, they’re dead, job done.

The fact that it moves into a secondary phase that someone may eventually recover from and beat you is frustrating for many. The flip side is there’s nothing worse than watching team-mates run past not ressing and in the moment where your about to rally, you get finished off.

I personally don’t have a problem with it and it adds an extra dynamic to the game that you have to account for. You have to know what people’s down states are and have strategies that consider the down-state.

Teulux.6732 said:

“Good players will adapt and get used to it and build off it.

Bad players will cry about it ruining their game, and say it takes no skill."

The real issue here is a discussion around what should happen in the down state, what skills need to be buffed or nerfed. To just ask for it removed is an oversimplification of the issue.

IMO.
Let Downed stats stay.
and take out the revive in WvWvW.
It’s just ridiculous, how no matter what you do.
if you lose a battle. you don’t hurt the winner at all. (they still have the same numbers.)

Yep, that really does make PvP in GW2 kinda suck although I do hate having to run everywhere.

But the fact that everyone can come back to live really ruins a lot of strategic options. You can’t “wear down” an attacker. You have to either wipe them out completely or not at all.

Really poor design actually.

I 100% agree with. You should not be able to rez 100% of the players that get fully killed. THIS is what makes zergs in WvW so strong right now because no matter what you do if you have to fall back at all to regroup people will just always get rezzed. People cry about downs state because they say it makes zergs too strong, but the REAL reason is being able to rez people even if they are completely dead 100% of the time.

Like others have said this makes it so you have to kill 100% of the players for it to count as a win.

I think a simple approach to the downed state in WvWvW is to put more stringency on repeated downing. In normal circumstances, you can go down three times before being permanently ended, and you’re easier to kill for good every time. Why not make it so you skip the unpenalized first down? Makes it easier to pick people off, while still leaving plenty of time for an aware team to save you. At any rate I agree that in its current form it’s very difficult to finish off a player for good.

Zerg ressing makes it next to impossible to hold off a much larger force. The moment anyone gets downed, 3 people get them back up. Even if you manage to actually finish a downed enemy, they still just lie there waiting for a rez and eventually get up since the revive progress is never lost.

Defeated players shouldn’t be revivable if you’re in combat. The revive bar should also un-fill if they’re not actively being revived.

Downed players probably need restrictions too. Honestly one person reviving heals a downed player faster than most non-glass cannon specs can even damage them. If you’re not in a position to finish instantly(and you never are in seriously outnumbered situations), it’s pretty much impossible to actually kill a target so long as your opponents have any brain or ability to hit their F key.

I personally love downstate in WvW. It gives me plenty of time to switch to town clothes or just character screen out to avoid repair costs.

You want to make sure someone dies and stayed dead and damage pressure is not a good enough mechanic for you? Learn to pull and punt. Knockbacks and pulls properly used prevent rezs and I do this all the time.

Want to beat an overwhelming force open field? Your focus is two fold, damage AND disruption. You cannot expect to beat an overwhelming force without disrupting their play, that’s unrealistic. Even if you get a good surprise attack an overwhelming force would still slaughter you without any downed state needed if you are not using disruption.

I’ve personally waded into the fray and used Rifle butt on my Warrior to clear people off someone being healed, then switched to my bow and AOE’d the crap out of them. Did it require me to take a good bit of damage and do some fancy footwork to stay alive? Oh yes. Does it work when done at the right times? Definitely.

This is not a black and white issue. There are a multitude of counters, but it’s up to you to use them.

As far as balancing of downed abilities? I really feel that Elementalist and Engineer are not as weak as believed. But their abilities seem to be more team oriented and less “save my own bacon”. A channeled immobilize might not do much for you, but you can legitimately save other people with it. A rope pull to you might seem counter-intuitive but then again I don’t see too many fragile melee range engineers. If you’re overextended and die THAT IS YOUR FAULT.

Though I will say that some abilities need to be toned down. Guardian, Mesmer, and Thief could use some downward tweaks to their downed abilities. They seem quite a bit stronger than the rest.

Ralathar, you are right, completely.

Right now I’m running a full exotic toughness and superior mercy rune build, I specialize in rezzing guys behind enemy lines as a thief. Instead of being the two shot glass cannon most q.q about from backstab. Getting rid of rezzing just takes away from the fun of a lot of people who enjoy being the hero.

Bad enough healers hardly get anything, let us rez specc’d folks keep some purpose.

Another reason this change is bad, the length of the map. A five man krewe from a small guild at present, can have fun in enemy territory taking out yaks and camps. Even if they lose a couple, a stealth’d or sneaky mesmer can get away, then rez their little team back. Making them run all the way across the map to have their fun isn’t exactly balancing, just because you don’t like how squads keep each other going.

i love downed in wvwvw. as an elementalist, i love dropping aoe on downed players to watch their teammates either die in the aoe, or run away really fast. and then i like to drop a few more aoe on top of the downed player when they’re all alone with their team circling some distance away. i like to think of it as reversing the psychology we have of the benefits of downed. i like to also imagine the other player screaming at their monitor every time they see a circle of aoe cheerfully exploding around their corpse. knowing that i know they’re there and i’m just not letting them get rezzed.

when they log/respawn, i feel a warm fuzzy feeling.

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

Another reason this change is bad, the length of the map. A five man krewe from a small guild at present, can have fun in enemy territory taking out yaks and camps. Even if they lose a couple, a stealth’d or sneaky mesmer can get away, then rez their little team back. Making them run all the way across the map to have their fun isn’t exactly balancing, just because you don’t like how squads keep each other going.

Yeah, it would be ridiculous to have to revive and run back if you get killed deep in enemy territory. :/

Come on man.

I think downed state is fine, gives you that last minute possibility to survive and favors coop. Though, once defeated you should be forced to restart from a waypoint, no revive.

At minimum, if someone is defeated, 20 players shouldn’t be able to revive him with Arrow Carts raining down on his corpse corpse.

You should at least be forced to stop reviving a defeated players if you take damage.

I don’t like the current mechanic in WvW one bit. It just makes zerging stronger.

The usual scenario: Zerg is gate hugging at your holding, you are defending with far less people. With solid arrow cart focus firing, you manage to down one! Only to see 5 of his zergling buddies insta-revive him, and you achieved nothing.

Regular scenario with Rally: You got a small scale battle, lets say 3v3 at a supply camp. It’s a good battle and you’re roughly evenly matched. One player of each team get downed, and then one of 2 things usually happens: 1) The downed player on one team gets rallied because the other downed player died, turning it into a 3v2. 2) One of the downed players manage to kill a mob to get rallied, making it a 3v2.

Having suffered plenty of these moments (mainly the first regarding zerg friendlyness of downed state mechanics), I believe the following should happen in WvW:

- Rally needs to go, it’s practically just a luck mechanic in being able to kill a mob before you get finished or managing to find and kill another downed player with your weak, short range ‘1’ spam (unless you got an OP downed state). In a large fight it’s just a tab-target, ‘1’ spamming mess and hope you get lucky.

- Mid-combat reviving speeds needs a dramatic decrease. I can down a player and watch his 5 zerg buddies almost instantly revive him. A flat 75% decrease in revive speed would help a lot, but I’d also like to be able to interupt revivers easier. Not all classes got a way of interupting a reviving player and end up bashing away at him in the hope of killing him before he manages to revive his ally. I think that a reviving player, when losing more than 10% of his health while ‘casting’ a revive, should be interupted. It allows him to keep reviving when being hit by indirect AOE damage, but force him to fight for himself when targetted directly.

These changes would help make WvW more balanced and more skill based in both large and small scale WvW fights.

Remove the ability to revive the dead in combat, dont know if that is possible without changing downed reviving, it should be.

When you die give a 2-3 minute timer, if your not revived in time then make it so you either cant be or you auto spawn to the nearest waypoint.

@ Reonhato your suggestion has nothing to do with the downed post.

On topic: I believe some of the downed state profession skills are quite OP and deal way to much damage.

Im ok with the downed state in general, with a few buts:

1) in WvW (possibly even sPvP too) they should make the speed of res QUITE slower, and then tie a speed buff with the compassion stat…makes all the sense.

2) they should just give all proffs the same skills, just changing the visuals to fit the motive of the class…
certain classes have INCREDIBLE downed skills, others have PATHETIC ones

… I think that removing the option to get revived after finished off in WvW has some appeal, at least if they implement a timer. So if your mates are fast enough to give you a rezz back from death, they should be able to do so, but if that timer runs out, you should only be able to port (or be ported automatically) to your spawn point.

That would not break the downed-state, but would make some tactics more valuable and reduces the effectiveness of random zergs.

If I remember correctly, WAR used such a mechanic on therir RvR-territory.

OmniPotentes.4817:

@ Reonhato your suggestion has nothing to do with the downed post.

On topic: I believe some of the downed state profession skills are quite OP and deal way to much damage.

sure it does, if you read more than the first post you would realise the thread quickly went into not just about downed but death as well and the advantages it gives zergs, better to fix a broken mechanic before trying to balance it

Downed state can get a little bit ridiculous at times though, I’m in somewhat tanky gear (knights mixed with invaders) but dps stats. killed someone had full hp left and with his interrupts from downed state I had 10% hp left by the time I used a finisher with noone else around..

I think there is more of an issue with the healing system in the game.

Consider this:
You are on a siege weapon defending a location and you start targeting a player. The player gets hit multiple times by your siege engine and loses health very quickly. During this time they may heal themself but they eventually go to a downed state. Everybody quickly notices that the person is downed, and all they have to do is hit “F” to revive them. While you quickly fire your siege weapon at them, you still can not out-damage the amount of health they are giving the person while they revive them.

Now during this whole ordeal of them being barraged by your siege weapon not a single person probably even noticed that they were dying. Even if they did, it is likely that their healing skill is too weak to matter, so they just let them sink into downed state. I know that it is quicker to heal a person if I just let them go into a downed state and revive. Also, I can trigger my downed state trait (i.e. Medic’s Feedback) which gives the added bonus of area protection.

I propose that we improve group heals. Additionally, create an F5 skill to revive, that includes a cool-down. That way people can not spam revives, and group healing would have greater impact.

Supersun.4603:

At minimum, if someone is defeated, 20 players shouldn’t be able to revive him with Arrow Carts raining down on his corpse corpse.

You should at least be forced to stop reviving a defeated players if you take damage.

I disagree. Reviving people while in combat is kitten slow unless you have like 4 people. if you have that many people allowed to sit and revive someone then you never had a chance in the first place.

Also people keep talking about tilted battles. What about even ones? The side that actually takes care of their downed/defeated players when wise to should get the benefits of it. Likewise those that try to revive people within enemy fire range should eat hot molten death like they deserve.

Downed, defeated, and rezzing are just another facet of skill in this game. I’ve seen my side lose plenty before because everyone was zerging and not bothering to pick up downed players.

Also really folks, why do you think that 1 person should be able to overcome 4-5? That’s alot of what people are really saying when they talk about people being revived. Even siege, which can be countered and killed by 1 smart player many times.

PVP is all about teamwork folks. Stop kittening because you can’t rambo it.

Give finish of a CD like 5 sek. So it actually means something and can’t be spammed by 5 people on you all the time.

I completely agree with this 100% and can not fathom how to +1 it anymore than I already did. Although the full implementation is definitely up in the air for discussion, the concept of this sounds the most fundamentally sound.

There is nothing wrong with downed state (save the few imbalanced on its implementation, if you choose to believe so). If anything, downed stated has been a boon and the fact that Anet decided to formalize it has been extremely pleasing to me. It is part of the game and how you react to it is your responsibility as a player.

For example, I’ve been in dungeon story/explore runs where I never die/wipe simply because our 5 guys act as a team, prioritize health management, condition management, etc. On the other hand, I’ve also been on teams that wipe consistently because people are out there for themselves. Because of that, the risk balance per player shifts drastically from a uniform/normal distribution to something outrageous akin a pareto distribution. Both outcomes, with pugs. Good players find a way to get downed players up. Bad players simply let downed players die. This works in PvE and PvP.

With that said, as far as WvW goes, right now there is nothing that deters a dead player from getting revived if they have superior numbers. They simply win the engagement, and anyone that has died, simply gets revived. Any sides can have zergs, but whichever side has the most successful zerg will always be successful, because their numbers will never drop. There’s simply no logistical cost if you are on the winning side; you never have to respawn at the WP. On the other hand, if you lose a battle, it’s always a complete loss. There’s nothing to be salvaged save the few loot bags you may have picked up.

Once you’re dead, you should stay dead. As of now, every battle culminates in a 100% victory for the winning side, and a 100% defeat for the losing side. If we get rid of revives once your dead, then these numerical margins can start to deviate and we can actually have meaningful confrontations on the battlefield. Wins and losses can be 70/30, 40/60, 90/10, etc. Things will start to be dynamic.

TL DR – Downed state is here to stay. Revives when dead, get rid of that, please.

Divinorium.8952:

IMO.
Let Downed stats stay.
and take out the revive in WvWvW.
It’s just ridiculous, how no matter what you do.
if you lose a battle. you don’t hurt the winner at all. (they still have the same numbers.)

True. It contributes to the ‘folding’ effect once 1 server starts to dominate. People just get discouraged.

Finishing moves just need to permanently kill people.

Direct Damage should interrupt a rezz. That would fix many problems I have with the system. It would also make it possible to actually decimate a zerg as defenders.

BoomShakaBoxer.6784:

I completely agree with this 100% and can not fathom how to +1 it anymore than I already did. Although the full implementation is definitely up in the air for discussion, the concept of this sounds the most fundamentally sound.

There is nothing wrong with downed state (save the few imbalanced on its implementation, if you choose to believe so). If anything, downed stated has been a boon and the fact that Anet decided to formalize it has been extremely pleasing to me. It is part of the game and how you react to it is your responsibility as a player.

For example, I’ve been in dungeon story/explore runs where I never die/wipe simply because our 5 guys act as a team, prioritize health management, condition management, etc. On the other hand, I’ve also been on teams that wipe consistently because people are out there for themselves. Because of that, the risk balance per player shifts drastically from a uniform/normal distribution to something outrageous akin a pareto distribution. Both outcomes, with pugs. Good players find a way to get downed players up. Bad players simply let downed players die. This works in PvE and PvP.

With that said, as far as WvW goes, right now there is nothing that deters a dead player from getting revived if they have superior numbers. They simply win the engagement, and anyone that has died, simply gets revived. Any sides can have zergs, but whichever side has the most successful zerg will always be successful, because their numbers will never drop. There’s simply no logistical cost if you are on the winning side; you never have to respawn at the WP. On the other hand, if you lose a battle, it’s always a complete loss. There’s nothing to be salvaged save the few loot bags you may have picked up.

Once you’re dead, you should stay dead. As of now, every battle culminates in a 100% victory for the winning side, and a 100% defeat for the losing side. If we get rid of revives once your dead, then these numerical margins can start to deviate and we can actually have meaningful confrontations on the battlefield. Wins and losses can be 70/30, 40/60, 90/10, etc. Things will start to be dynamic.

TL DR – Downed state is here to stay. Revives when dead, get rid of that, please.

If the battle ends in a complete wipe one way then it was a poor decision to engage. This puts more focus on choosing your fights wisely.

The problem here is that game balance would be destroyed with your suggestion. You could just stealth out with a thief and pick off one person every time for example. Even if they manage to kill you then you can run back much faster as a defender most times.

The advantage is also with the defenders in multiple ways already if people play correctly. They don’t need MORE advantages.

Remove down state and Revive best solution

I feel that downed state is fine the way it is, but I think damage should interrupt reviving someone in the defeated state.

I do not like downed state in WvW as I think it gives a distinct advantage to the larger force, which most often does not need the advantage. It, however, is not a game breaker for me and I will learn to deal with it.

I mostly think downed bars need a serious balance review.

Ralathar.7236:

BoomShakaBoxer.6784:

I completely agree with this 100% and can not fathom how to +1 it anymore than I already did. Although the full implementation is definitely up in the air for discussion, the concept of this sounds the most fundamentally sound.

There is nothing wrong with downed state (save the few imbalanced on its implementation, if you choose to believe so). If anything, downed stated has been a boon and the fact that Anet decided to formalize it has been extremely pleasing to me. It is part of the game and how you react to it is your responsibility as a player.

For example, I’ve been in dungeon story/explore runs where I never die/wipe simply because our 5 guys act as a team, prioritize health management, condition management, etc. On the other hand, I’ve also been on teams that wipe consistently because people are out there for themselves. Because of that, the risk balance per player shifts drastically from a uniform/normal distribution to something outrageous akin a pareto distribution. Both outcomes, with pugs. Good players find a way to get downed players up. Bad players simply let downed players die. This works in PvE and PvP.

With that said, as far as WvW goes, right now there is nothing that deters a dead player from getting revived if they have superior numbers. They simply win the engagement, and anyone that has died, simply gets revived. Any sides can have zergs, but whichever side has the most successful zerg will always be successful, because their numbers will never drop. There’s simply no logistical cost if you are on the winning side; you never have to respawn at the WP. On the other hand, if you lose a battle, it’s always a complete loss. There’s nothing to be salvaged save the few loot bags you may have picked up.

Once you’re dead, you should stay dead. As of now, every battle culminates in a 100% victory for the winning side, and a 100% defeat for the losing side. If we get rid of revives once your dead, then these numerical margins can start to deviate and we can actually have meaningful confrontations on the battlefield. Wins and losses can be 70/30, 40/60, 90/10, etc. Things will start to be dynamic.

TL DR – Downed state is here to stay. Revives when dead, get rid of that, please.

If the battle ends in a complete wipe one way then it was a poor decision to engage. This puts more focus on choosing your fights wisely.

The problem here is that game balance would be destroyed with your suggestion. You could just stealth out with a thief and pick off one person every time for example. Even if they manage to kill you then you can run back much faster as a defender most times.

The advantage is also with the defenders in multiple ways already if people play correctly. They don’t need MORE advantages.

Until were i know, the defenders SHOULD have the advantage. Castle were build to make a small force hold against a bigger force, why in a game should be different?

PPL need to understand that sieges, its not made by killing the oil, them placing rams and hitting the door until it falls.

We have catas, treb, ballistas, and i’m pretty sure anet didn’t placed all tha just for show.

I would take the anti-downed state complaints a little more seriously if a vast majority of them were not made by people playing the ’Thief’ class.

You guys realize you stealthing into a pack of 30 players, 2 shotting an Elementalist and getting away is not intended right? Your nerfs are coming.

As a player playing a Necro.
Do not disable the downstate, probably reduce the reviving speed a bit. Because it is crazy how fast people get ressed sometimes.
But disable the ability to revive dead players.

Remove repair costs and we’re good to go. With ridiculously expensive bags and cultural gear, it’s not like we have nothing to spend moneys on, is it?

Divinorium.8952:

Until were i know, the defenders SHOULD have the advantage. Castle were build to make a small force hold against a bigger force, why in a game should be different?

PPL need to understand that sieges, its not made by killing the oil, them placing rams and hitting the door until it falls.

We have catas, treb, ballistas, and i’m pretty sure anet didn’t placed all tha just for show.

Actually in the middle of last night some Ehmry Bay people pushed Darkhaven off of our keep while outnumbered 3:1. We didn’t even have siege until we had already pushed them back somewhat other than the semi-coordinated Oil rebuild to kill the siege golem. We killed all the flame rams ourselves and even survived the occasional pull offa the wall.

The current downed state makes every kill you make against a larger zerg absolutely meaningless.

In fact you might as well just give up because there is no way to decimate a zerg with significantly less players.

Downed state is a terrible design in any PvP environment. I mean if people in zergs can rezz each other in a matter of seconds….what’s the point of fighting?

ANet needs to admit that they didn’t foresee this, which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do and change it or remove it completely from PvP environment.

I want WvW to be about more than who can bring the most players and resources to the party, because that’s what it currently is.

Downed state/revive & rally are fine imo. Reviving after downed state has ended (ie; being stomped) is what I don’t like.

I suppose something akin to downed state was the natural result of removing healers and by extension rezzers.

Its a bold step away from the status quo. Unfortunately this one didnt work so well.

In MMOs even questionable designs usually have an amazing amount of ardent supporters. Ive never seen something as universally disliked before.

Acelerion.6820:

I suppose something akin to downed state was the natural result of removing healers and by extension rezzers.

Its a bold step away from the status quo. Unfortunately this one didnt work so well.

In MMOs even questionable designs usually have an amazing amount of ardent supporters. Ive never seen something as universally disliked before.

The ironic thing is that this actually has less impact than healers and resurrection spells and can be more easily countered.

I understand WHERE players are coming from, but they are building up a new challenge into an insurmountable feat. It’s something else to get used to and like EVERYTHING it favors the zerg (yes everything does), but it’s not some impossible issue like people make it out to be and adds a strategic wrinkle.

The biggest thing here is that people have an attitude that they are entitled those “kills” and quite simply they are not. People also make the argument that this makes attrition not count, but this has been the way it has been in all PVP MMORPG’s thanks to healers and rezzers.

Simply stated most of the arguments do not hold water, do not understand the impacts of their wishes, and forget that this is still a step forwards in that area while not forcing ridiculous runbacks that nobody finds fun unless you overextend or lose completely. If you lose completely you were outplayed or fought a battle you should not have, simple as that.

The only thing that I will agree on is that rez progression needs to decay after a short amount of time to prevent the incremental rezzing. Those people overextended and deserve to run back and learn their lesson.

“like EVERYTHING it favors the zerg (yes everything does)”

Everything doesent have to though. Removing multiple rezzers for instance would go a long way.

“The biggest thing here is that people have an attitude that they are entitled those “kills” and quite simply they are not.”

I can make the argument that if I chew through your health bar I deserve a badge of honor at least, especially if Im outnumbered.

You say this is a step forward but nothing supports that. Its a step outside the box definitely but its yet to be shown that its any better/more interesting/whatever than traditional mechanics.

Elthurien.8356:

Downed state/revive & rally are fine imo. Reviving after downed state has ended (ie; being stomped) is what I don’t like.

Agreed

I 100% agree with Dee Jay
Its impossible at the moment to beat larger groups with smaller numbers because they are constantly getting revived. The downed state just rewards who has the most numbers and takes away the skill factor potential this game could have. It is an absolutely disgusting mechanic and i hope it gets removed sooner rather then later. I think the only people that like the downed state are either thieves or mesmers because it gives them an advantage.

Bunzy: “I think the only people that like the downed state are either thieves or mesmers because it gives them an advantage.”

Uh no. Downed state is horrible for thieves. What if you jump on someone and kill him, but oh wait, his friends prevent you from finishing him off? You want to pick people off as a thief, much like a predator in the wild, you attack the herd and take someone down. But with downed state it’s not as ideal.

As for mesmers, I also fail to see why would downed state give them an advantage. I play as a mesmer and really don’t know why I should look forward to being downed or having downed enemies. I don’t like downed state, I think it’s negative to the gameplay, and want to see it gone completely from both PvE and PvP. I much more enjoyed PvE in GW1 where dead was dead. Quests and missions were so much more interesting. GW2 PvE and WvW PvP is just graveyard zerging.

Acelerion.6820:

Everything doesen’t have to though. Removing multiple rezzers for instance would go a long way.

The only thing that doesn’t really favor the zerg is unlimited AOE targets, and that becomes so toxic in it’s exploitation that it’s game breaking.

I can make the argument that if I chew through your health bar I deserve a badge of honor at least, especially if Im outnumbered.

I play on Ehmry Bay. I’m always outnumbered. It’s a way of life. No you do not deserve kill credit for a partial kill. Especially considering what some classes or class combos are capable of. That would be far far too easy.

You say this is a step forward but nothing supports that. Its a step outside the box definitely but its yet to be shown that its any better/more interesting/whatever than traditional mechanics.

If you cannot see that 5 people spending 5 seconds gathered point blank around a person is more limited than rezzing people from a safe distance with a shorter cast time then I really don’t know what to tell you. Because reason is obviously out of the picture.

Look all the griping I see here about outnumbered and etc is HOGWASH. I’ve overcome superior numbers many times with some of the folks I run around with. It is far from impossible. Yall are wrong. Period. I’ll quote myself from something I just posted on the WvW board.

Ralathar.7236

I want to say I am proud of Ehmry Bay tonight. An epic supply camp defense in the Darkhaven BL, a stubborn hold in Ehmry Bay BL, we actually controlled the most of the 3 realms at one time, AND we ninja’d Stonemist in Eternal Battlegrounds. The only reason we didn’t hold it longer is some pugs used the supplies to repair one of the gates, so instead of both Shiverpeaks and Darkhaven clashing in the middle Darkhaven made it in by a fair margin first. shakes fist at clueless puggers

All if this while having the out-manned buff the large majority of the time.

I’m sure we’ll lose everything now since people do eventually have to sleep sometime, and we were already far outnumbered, but we did a great job tonight. You should all be proud guys. Except for those few who repaired the inner stonemist gate lol. You guys need to think more about the big picture.

You think you can just waltz into a far superior force and kitten them to death? Not gonna happen. You have to be either good or organized. Preferably both. Even then at around a 3:1 ratio there is a tipping point that normally will not be overcome and this has nothing to do with the downed state. Eventually the odds just get too high to reasonably overcome.

Use siege, bait out and extend the enemy and crush those who overextend. Use pulls!! Can’t stress that enough. Durable people can get closer up front and dodge roll through/punt people back, use siege, use defensive locations, choose battles of your choice that are beneficial to you, get organized, learn how to break a zergs morale and have them fall back even when they outnumber you, you’ll almost always pick some off and rez you own, try playing a healing/support oriented spec because they make a big difference, etc.

There are countless strategies that you are obviously not taking full advantage of.

Can be good for rezzing in large groups, but it is horrible in 2v1 situations where the 1 as hard as it is to win 2v1, the downed state makes it near impossible to win (inb4 team game, this situation scaled up with more numbers still the same issue making a small tactical team not even able to dent a large group). Also some professions have much better downed state abilities than others.

Needs to go! But i don’t mind it in PVE.

The downed state has ruined countless fights that otherwise would have been nothing short of epic. I can’t think of a single instance where it made any fight better.

Terrible mechanic. Designed to be a crutch to keep the unskilled zerg limping along without getting rolled by better playing smaller forces. Along with AOE cap of 5, and other terrible design choices, WvW in GW2 is the most casual friendly, lowest skill cap PvP sytsem in an MMO to ever be made.

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