Smaller groups often find it very difficult to manage larger groups because it is exceedingly difficult to down players while fighting against greater numbers. The CC and AoE that lands on a downed player from a large group makes getting near them an instant death. Likewise when a player goes down in a smaller group, they get blasted almost instantly by the same focused fire. Don’t even get me started on less skilled players being near our group since they are often rallybots.
Can we get some adjustments to the system that balances this out a bit? Such as downed players take more damage, maybe faster stomps, players reviving other players take more damage, only one downed state every three minutes or some other adjustments to level the playing field.
Basically the downed system is often a second health bar for larger groups while being a big detriment for smaller ones.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
In the downed system, one player death = one player rally even if 20 downed players tagged that player.
Downed state is perfectly fine after the tweak many months back. All of those things you want already exist.
If you aare fightning a bigger group, it’s all about what skills you use and what class. For example, my Scrapper is perfectly suited to res under pressure. I can stealth the downed, I can pop bulwark to reduce bomb damage and I can pop reflect to damage anyone trying to focus me at range while ressing. Some classes can spec into faster res or general support (cleric ele dumping all heals on a downed should be able to keep anyone up while ressing).
If you try to res with like a glass cannon thief or something I understand your issue. Because that would be silly.
Likewise when bombing someone downed, its all about tactics. If its smaller forces, say 6v10, again there are specific skills that can be used. Bubbles/AoE on downed, quickness/invouln. to stomp, ranged stomp, sneaky stealth stomp, heal bomb and group stabby stomp etc.
I really dont see the issue unless you are saying that stomping someone when its 1v50 is hard. Because yeah. It kind of is.
Not sure how small/large groups we talking about. While we have been running with 15-20 guild group, we have fought big enemy blobs, larger enemy guilds, 3 enemy guilds ganking us same time etc. Some fights we have lost, and some we won. But it never looked to me we lost the fights because we could not kill off downed enemy, just throw ranged AoE on them, poison them and they will die. I have not noticed any enemy being stupid enough to go in and hard-ress their downed, banners sure but these have quite long cooldown.
There are moments when large enemy group manages to throw all the damage on one spot and that means instant death for squishies. Happens. If you fight larger enemy, you just must work harder but the smile on your face when you wipe them is also wider.
I disagree. The current system works quite well. A well coordinated gank group can easily pick off many in a larger zerg, which my guild (running 7 people) was doing to TF (around 25-30 with pugs) just last night. We would pull someone who didn’t have stability up out of position, down and spike them as quickly as possible, then reposition or scatter when pushed. Granted we also had some siege cover as well, which helped, but that’s the general theory of how to play a small~ish (I’m aware 7 people is quite large for a gank group) group fighting a larger organised zerg.
There still needs to be discrepancies in power with a numbers difference or else I think the toxicity in map chat would just go through the roof, with people telling others to get off the map etc. even more than they do already
you find downed to slow to kill off? have a reaper use gravedigger on them. pretty much takes them out in one. if not is is recharged and ready for a second swing. Great mop up tool that GS
With near even numbers or zerg v zerg stomping is easy but that isn’t what I am talking about. We run in a 3-5 man group and engage twice or more our numbers regularly. Small groups fighting large groups cannot afford mistakes much less stopping to stomp a player under heavy AoE and CC.
It is incredibly annoying that we can down players multiple times in a fight but due to the sheer wall of AoE, trap spam, CC, etc cannot finish them off. It is just as annoying that we have to actively disengage when friendlies try to help as they are often just rally bots in those fights.
Run with us for a night and you will be cursing the downed mechanic before the night is out.
With near even numbers or zerg v zerg stomping is easy but that isn’t what I am talking about. We run in a 3-5 man group and engage twice or more our numbers regularly. Small groups fighting large groups cannot afford mistakes much less stopping to stomp a player under heavy AoE and CC.
It is incredibly annoying that we can down players multiple times in a fight but due to the sheer wall of AoE, trap spam, CC, etc cannot finish them off. It is just as annoying that we have to actively disengage when friendlies try to help as they are often just rally bots in those fights.
Well yeah. That’s called having an advantage in numbers and that’s always gonna be there. You cant make mistakes. Not bringing a group composition good enough to stomp is a mistake. If you did bring for example a scrapper for ranged stomp and a necro to fear everyone away from the downed or a chrono to gravity well on him and still lost… Well then you would have lost anyway. Because that’s how WvW works assuming both sides are roughly equal in skill. Larger numbers usually win.
Not bringing a group composition good enough to stomp is a mistake. If you did bring for example a scrapper for ranged stomp and a necro to fear everyone away from the downed or a chrono to gravity well on him and still lost… Well then you would have lost anyway.
When one player stops in a skill group, everyone in the group pays the price. The downed state as it is encourages numbers over skill. If players could only rally once every five minutes, that would be enough to shift the balance towards skilled play.
I really do not understand why players want near infinite rallies… it promotes the least skilled play. I would argue the same exists in large scale fights as well. How many times do we down the same ele only to watch them mist form back into their herd.
Because that’s how WvW works assuming both sides are roughly equal in skill. Larger numbers usually win.
I am not talking equal skill here. Any of the skilled roamers know the scenario… fighting three guys, down one but cannot stop long enough to finish them because well two other players trying to kill you. That same scenario is true in small scale outnumbered fights as well.
I am not talking equal skill here. Any of the skilled roamers know the scenario… fighting three guys, down one but cannot stop long enough to finish them because well two other players trying to kill you. That same scenario is true in small scale outnumbered fights as well.
Hah just yesterday I did a 1v3 on my scrapper. Targetted one of them while fighting the evasion game, got him to downed and… got downed myself because really, it was 3 vs me and just bringing one down took all the cooldowns. But as they begin to stomp, my function gyro finish its stomp and rally me. Proceed to easily kill and stomp the other two.
Look we all know the annoyances of downstate but its still a core part of what makes GW2 having pretty much the best MMO combat system in existance. No other game comes even close. It actually makes players help each other instead of competing against each other. Suggesting to “fix” that is like saying “oh are you sad today? Here just let me rip out your heart to make you feel better!”.
Everything about the combat system is stacked against smaller numbers and that seems to be by design. I don’t think Anet wanted smaller numbers wiping larger numbers with any consistency as this would prove to be demoralizing for the larger group. The down state, aoe cap and massive amount of short duration CC with effectively no cool down make it extremely challenging for smaller groups to be successful. This is where I think DAOC got it ride as a coordinated group of 8 could take on a group 2 or 3 times their size regularly. Sadly, I don’t think anything will change to improve this.
I am not talking equal skill here. Any of the skilled roamers know the scenario… fighting three guys, down one but cannot stop long enough to finish them because well two other players trying to kill you. That same scenario is true in small scale outnumbered fights as well.
So?
What about a 1v3 is supposed to be balanced?
I am not talking equal skill here. Any of the skilled roamers know the scenario… fighting three guys, down one but cannot stop long enough to finish them because well two other players trying to kill you. That same scenario is true in small scale outnumbered fights as well.
So?
What about a 1v3 is supposed to be balanced?
Not think he means balanced so much as you are unlikely to finish off any of them and get loot. Other games you may get 3v1 but you can often at least take one of them with you.
If I understand right he is saying the chances of getting anything when 3v1 is so low that you might as well just stand there and let them kill you even if you are more skilled than them
Not think he means balanced so much as you are unlikely to finish off any of them and get loot. Other games you may get 3v1 but you can often at least take one of them with you.
If I understand right he is saying the chances of getting anything when 3v1 is so low that you might as well just stand there and let them kill you even if you are more skilled than them
Yep. I frequently get into a 2x or 3x fights and I/we down the same target(s) a half dozen times. I/We cannot stop long enough to stomp because that would just get me/us killed. I don’t mind players getting up from downed states what bugs me is the frequency and the speed in which it happens. The downed state shouldn’t be an endless treadmill supporting numbers and low skill play over outright better play.
Curious, can some1 link a video showing a much smaller force taking on an organized zerg/blob (where the blob is actually focused on killing the smaller force and the small force is winning)? Small groups killing many times their size in stragglers is kitten. Find me an organized group vs a much much smaller organized group and show me the smaller one winning.
Curious, can some1 link a video showing a much smaller force taking on an organized zerg/blob (where the blob is actually focused on killing the smaller force and the small force is winning)? Small groups killing many times their size in stragglers is kitten. Find me an organized group vs a much much smaller organized group and show me the smaller one winning.
This kind of fight at 1:20 is probably the closest you’ll get to a legitimate 2:1 disadvantage. The choke is necessary. The days of full on 20v50 blob-busting in open areas are long gone – there’s simply way too much damage and way too much damage efficiency in the game for that.
Curious, can some1 link a video showing a much smaller force taking on an organized zerg/blob (where the blob is actually focused on killing the smaller force and the small force is winning)? Small groups killing many times their size in stragglers is kitten. Find me an organized group vs a much much smaller organized group and show me the smaller one winning.
This kind of fight at 1:20 is probably the closest you’ll get to a legitimate 2:1 disadvantage. The choke is necessary. The days of full on 20v50 blob-busting in open areas are long gone – there’s simply way too much damage and way too much damage efficiency in the game for that.
Yes this is my observation as well. I’m curious whether the people on this thread are being honest or not. Hard to believe there would be much difference between tiers.
Small groups killing many times their size in stragglers is kitten. Find me an organized group vs a much much smaller organized group and show me the smaller one winning.
The zerg busting guilds aren’t around as much. However there is zero incentive currently as a small man group cannot effectively kill anything other than stragglers in the current environment. When our group drops something the herd just brings it right back.
My general complaint is that in skirmish where 4 of us are fighting 10, we will frequently down players but their numbers give them ample time to bring their downed up. We often drop the same players four or five times in those fights only to see a wall of CC and AoE drop on that area preventing us from finishing.
If small groups could chip away at larger groups we would actually see more skill play win over zombie herd play. This is why I think fully downed players should have to port and players that have been downed a second or third time within a small time frame should have to port. Having to port is a very minor penalty but would allow skill to whittle down numbers.
My general complaint is that in skirmish where 4 of us are fighting 10, we will frequently down players but their numbers give them ample time to bring their downed up. We often drop the same players four or five times in those fights only to see a wall of CC and AoE drop on that area preventing us from finishing.
Well, that’s called advantage in numbers. I see no issues.
What if it had been 4v8? 4v7? 5v9? If you could frequently down players at 4v10, that probably mean you would have won at those counts and just a slightly better advantage (or at least have a great chance at it). Which would be bad how exactly?
Bringing the proper tools and skills is critical. A single necro fear can give you space to spike a downed. Multiple engineers is almost assured spikes, especially if you can keep enemies busy at the same time – I cant even tell how many times larger groups “forget” their downed collegues because well, no one is there hitting them and surely they can ress them in short other in a couple of seconds. Except a gyro just stomped them. Win.
Well, that’s called advantage in numbers. I see no issues.
Exactly. The game is stacked on numbers not skill play. I can understand a below average player cheering this style of play. Rather than win with skill just pile on more numbers… great design that completely encourages blobbing rather than improving. Bonus is that many of those same players can log into the forums and gripe about all the blobbing.
Bringing the proper tools and skills is critical. A single necro fear can give you space to spike a downed. Multiple engineers is almost assured spikes, especially if you can keep enemies busy at the same time
Composition is incredibly important when going against twice the number of opponents or more. It is so important that if anyone stops buffing and healing long enough for a spike, everyone dies.
For now we just run gank builds but it sure would be nice to have some middle ground between gank and zerg that supports skill.
Totally agree with this post,i would upvote this +1000 if i could.The times im being frustrated to hell cus im losing an outmanned fight unable to finish or cleave enough while getting interrupted trying to finish the guy off ( switching isn’t always possible in these fights either) is getting on my nerves.Ive been contemplating to ask for the entire removal of downed state in wvw but that would bring alot of nay sayers anyway i reckon.
You can’t say “bring the right tools either” ( trust me i already do ) because in the fights you will use stabi,you will use invulns and your blocks,depending on how many.Then still while in a finish stabi can get insta gibbed,knocked back and the guy is getting rezzed up again.
I truly think downed state carries people in these fights way too hard.
E.g if its 1 on 4, where 3 ppl go down ( Lets just say youre unable to finish them off somehow ) and they keep getting rezzed in the process,where it ends up you losing the fight in the end..Is just wrong imo.
I am talking about small scale fights btw that being 2v6 or 8 for e.g.
Half the hp of ppl in downed state
Make ppl enter downed state ONCE and the next time they insta die ( 4x being able to go into downed mode is too much honestly….. )
Or get rid of it..
(edited by Caedmon.6798)
The current system seems to work fine.The only thing I’d like to address is the imbalance in the downed skills .One class can move in downed state when others can’t .I beleive that a common set of downed skills for all classes or at least an equal action set of downed skills for all classes is warranted.
The current system seems to work fine.The only thing I’d like to address is the imbalance in the downed skills .One class can move in downed state when others can’t .I beleive that a common set of downed skills for all classes or at least an equal action set of downed skills for all classes is warranted.
This is about outmanned fights where downed state is the result of the outcome of it.
ya I would love to have rally removed in wvw in some capacity. but then we would have rampant ganking so much so, that anet would have to reintroduce it.
3min of me trying to fight 1v3, or more accurately the rally system:
ya I would love to have rally removed in wvw in some capacity. but then we would have rampant ganking so much so, that anet would have to reintroduce it.
3min of me trying to fight 1v3, or more accurately the rally system:
It was already removed in some capacity with the 1:1 system rather than rallying half a zerg. And pretty much everyone agreed with the change.
Fact is, outnumbered fights are hard but rallying always goes both ways. I have won many 1v2, 2v3, 3v5 etc fights because rallying exist. Fights I would have lost otherwise, because the enemies werent the zombies that people in this thread seems to assume everyone is because obviously they should win 1v5 and feel like bosses. It was fights that would have been alot more boring and over before they even began because without rallying the fight would have been decided purely by numbers. That’s how battles between decently similar numbers of skilled players work, even a single one can change the battle. Rallying changes this and allows some flex.
Have I lost outnumbered fights because of rallying as well? Sure I have. Lots of them. But I wouldnt give up the ability to come back through adversity for the ability to pwn some noobs that rallybot every second.
Group fighting is what drives GW2 and the rally system is a core part of what makes it great.
ya I would love to have rally removed in wvw in some capacity. but then we would have rampant ganking so much so, that anet would have to reintroduce it.
3min of me trying to fight 1v3, or more accurately the rally system:
It was already removed in some capacity with the 1:1 system rather than rallying half a zerg. And pretty much everyone agreed with the change.
Fact is, outnumbered fights are hard but rallying always goes both ways. I have won many 1v2, 2v3, 3v5 etc fights because rallying exist. Fights I would have lost otherwise, because the enemies werent the zombies that people in this thread seems to assume everyone is because obviously they should win 1v5 and feel like bosses. It was fights that would have been alot more boring and over before they even began because without rallying the fight would have been decided purely by numbers. That’s how battles between decently similar numbers of skilled players work, even a single one can change the battle. Rallying changes this and allows some flex.
Have I lost outnumbered fights because of rallying as well? Sure I have. Lots of them. But I wouldnt give up the ability to come back through adversity for the ability to pwn some noobs that rallybot every second.
Group fighting is what drives GW2 and the rally system is a core part of what makes it great.
That’s the problem with this, we already are winning the outmanned fight. I had a 1v3 last night where I downed my opponents multiple times but they kept stealth rezzing over and over again preventing me from stomping. I eventually had to bail because more people showed up.
They either need to change it so rezzing is much slower, or if you go back down within 1-2 minutes of being downed you insta die.
That’s the problem with this, we already are winning the outmanned fight. I had a 1v3 last night where I downed my opponents multiple times but they kept stealth rezzing over and over again preventing me from stomping. I eventually had to bail because more people showed up.
They either need to change it so rezzing is much slower, or if you go back down within 1-2 minutes of being downed you insta die.
Flawed argument in the same line of Anet’s latest poll. Just because you had an expected outcome to win a 1v3 doesnt mean that’s the only correct outcome – which their ability to res their teammates under obvious pressure from just one single peep proved. If you couldnt stomp them you werent winning. Hence, you lost. End of story.
That’s the problem with this, we already are winning the outmanned fight. I had a 1v3 last night where I downed my opponents multiple times but they kept stealth rezzing over and over again preventing me from stomping. I eventually had to bail because more people showed up.
They either need to change it so rezzing is much slower, or if you go back down within 1-2 minutes of being downed you insta die.
Flawed argument in the same line of Anet’s latest poll. Just because you had an expected outcome to win a 1v3 doesnt mean that’s the only correct outcome – which their ability to res their teammates under obvious pressure from just one single peep proved. If you couldnt stomp them you werent winning. Hence, you lost. End of story.
So in your opinion a flawed game mechanic carrying 3 players that couldn’t down me once equals them winning?
Makes sense…… Heaven forbid they make any changes to the game so that skill>numbers. Your attitude is the reason they keep pandering to the crappy players with changes like the recent hardened gates fiasco.
That’s the problem with this, we already are winning the outmanned fight. I had a 1v3 last night where I downed my opponents multiple times but they kept stealth rezzing over and over again preventing me from stomping. I eventually had to bail because more people showed up.
They either need to change it so rezzing is much slower, or if you go back down within 1-2 minutes of being downed you insta die.
Flawed argument in the same line of Anet’s latest poll. Just because you had an expected outcome to win a 1v3 doesnt mean that’s the only correct outcome – which their ability to res their teammates under obvious pressure from just one single peep proved. If you couldnt stomp them you werent winning. Hence, you lost. End of story.
So in your opinion a flawed game mechanic carrying 3 players that couldn’t down me once equals them winning?
Makes sense…… Heaven forbid they make any changes to the game so that skill>numbers. Your attitude is the reason they keep pandering to the crappy players with changes like the recent hardened gates fiasco.
No, the fact they where 3 players against 1 carried them.
Tell me, do you think you would have won if they had been just 2?
Or if you had another good roamer next to you?
If you consider the answers to be yes, then there it is again. The fact that they where 3 against 1 carried them.
Skill always > numbers… up to a certain point.
That’s the problem with this, we already are winning the outmanned fight. I had a 1v3 last night where I downed my opponents multiple times but they kept stealth rezzing over and over again preventing me from stomping. I eventually had to bail because more people showed up.
They either need to change it so rezzing is much slower, or if you go back down within 1-2 minutes of being downed you insta die.
Flawed argument in the same line of Anet’s latest poll. Just because you had an expected outcome to win a 1v3 doesnt mean that’s the only correct outcome – which their ability to res their teammates under obvious pressure from just one single peep proved. If you couldnt stomp them you werent winning. Hence, you lost. End of story.
So in your opinion a flawed game mechanic carrying 3 players that couldn’t down me once equals them winning?
Makes sense…… Heaven forbid they make any changes to the game so that skill>numbers. Your attitude is the reason they keep pandering to the crappy players with changes like the recent hardened gates fiasco.No, the fact they where 3 players against 1 carried them.
Tell me, do you think you would have won if they had been just 2?
Or if you had another good roamer next to you?
If you consider the answers to be yes, then there it is again. The fact that they where 3 against 1 carried them.
Skill always > numbers… up to a certain point.
Nope. 2 players smart enough to power rez (especially if they can both provide stealth) are pretty kitten ed hard to kill. 1 person can rez faster than you can stomp. I could be boring and run a condi build like 90% of roamers so that they will have poison on them and continue to take damage even when stealthed, but why stifle build diversity for the sake of a stupid mini game?
Downed state was designed with PvE and SPvP in mind. They’ve already had to make multiple changes to it because outside of a 1v1 fight it is a terrible mechanic to have in WvW.
Larger groups already have the advantage of numbers, the aoe limit, having low players be able to reset while their friends keep you in combat, etc. They don’t need more help from this gimmick. Downed state doesn’t need to go away completely but it does need more changes.
Nope. 2 players smart enough to power rez (especially if they can both provide stealth) are pretty kitten ed hard to kill. 1 person can rez faster than you can stomp. I could be boring and run a condi build like 90% of roamers so that they will have poison on them and continue to take damage even when stealthed, but why stifle build diversity for the sake of a stupid mini game?
Well if you say you wouldnt have won that fight 2v3 or 1v2 either then there is no kittening chance you could have won 1v3 regardless of rally mechanics.
I also find it amusing you complain about it when you dont even want to bring the tools to deal with it because “diversity”, which yes happen to be things like poison and condi damage to suppress the enemy heals. Talk about trying to fix a problem you create yourself. Diversity in this case would have been to literally have a condi roamer next to you – you deal power damage to pummel 3 players, he deal condi damage and the tools to actually stomp them. That’s called teamwork.
Nope. 2 players smart enough to power rez (especially if they can both provide stealth) are pretty kitten ed hard to kill. 1 person can rez faster than you can stomp. I could be boring and run a condi build like 90% of roamers so that they will have poison on them and continue to take damage even when stealthed, but why stifle build diversity for the sake of a stupid mini game?
Well if you say you wouldnt have won that fight 2v3 or 1v2 either then there is no kittening chance you could have won 1v3 regardless of rally mechanics.
I also find it amusing you complain about it when you dont even want to bring the tools to deal with it because “diversity”, which yes happen to be things like poison and condi damage to suppress the enemy heals. Talk about trying to fix a problem you create yourself. Diversity in this case would have been to literally have a condi roamer next to you – you deal power damage to pummel 3 players, he deal condi damage and the tools to actually stomp them. That’s called teamwork.
If I am repeatedly downing the players without going downed myself……. how exactly did you come to the conclusion that “there is no kittening chance you could have won 1v3 regardless of rally mechanics.” ?
Even after they had other show up and I had to bail, they couldn’t kill me. being able to stealth rez was literally the only thing that kept them alive….
Oh and lol at your comment about build diversity including carrying around another condi player in your pocket. I don’t know why I’m even bothering with you… You play an engineer so this pretty much doesn’t effect you. You can carry on fighting while sending your gyro to stomp, if they stealth you reveal them, and you have enough cc and aoe coming out of your kitten to choke a horse.
You keep complaining about diversity yet you dont want to use actual diversity, neither in terms of your own build or by using teamwork and weighing up your class/build shortcomings. Yes, I play an engineer. It has a wide array of tools to perform tasks such as stomping under pressure. I even play a hybrid build to give me a better range of targets I can reliably engage, instead of being the best at specific types. That is what I call diversity.
But hey if you are done arguing I am too.
You keep complaining about diversity yet you dont want to use actual diversity, neither in terms of your own build or by using teamwork and weighing up your class/build shortcomings. Yes, I play an engineer. It has a wide array of tools to perform tasks such as stomping under pressure. I even play a hybrid build to give me a better range of targets I can reliably engage, instead of being the best at specific types. That is what I call diversity.
But hey if you are done arguing I am too.
You realize diversity means variety right? Everyone having to play condi isn’t diversity. Bringing a partner along isn’t diversity….
And just because engi is good for running hybrid builds doesn’t mean every profession is.
Soo… Larger groups = skill less. Solution? Gimme Matrix i wanna kill 1 v 10, i wanna be neo, me needs cool shades.
Guess what? It is a game, wvw is a mass player mode, you are not one of the 300, spartacus, Aragon, neo or Wolverine. If 40 people bomb on 15, do not walk into the bomb while having a monologe over how cruel the world is. Yes it sucks big time if you can’t beat bad players running arround in hordes. But do you know what would suck even more?
Half gods 4v40 people that constantly boast how goooooood they are, after Anet gave them some kind of buff.
What exactly is it that you people want? More players in our game mode? Well here they are, but guess what? They lack 4 years of experience. If they are willing and able teach them. If they are not? Every k-train crashes at some point, do not worry once the evil fair weather mob left you guys can go on walking empty borderlands, discussing how Bad the other guys are, how unfair life is and how the entry hurdle for wvw needs to be raised.
That is what would happen. New players no not think its amazing or coowl to be insta gibbed and WP.
New players learn the basics while running with the zerg, they do not when they see 40 guys being wiped by 15.
If you do not want outnumbered fights? Population is an issue that needs to be adressed. If you want to roam, find it is amazing how much fun you can have while beging alone\in a small group. But if you can’t take the NE Homelands Tower with 3 guys because the evil enemy bbbbblooooooobbbbb comes running carrying ACs, trebuchets and rabid asuras, then sorry no you should loose.
The downed state was reworked, and AS a result 5 v 10 are mofe often then not won. If the enemy keeps running back because you fight outnumbered at their spawn, hmmm i dunno maybe give all classes more dmg so you guys can kill more of the evil blob skillless subhumans before they use the WP.
Rant over, simply put, outnumbered fights are fun, can be won can be lost. If you constantly run into the its a population issue not one of the downed state.
Don’t set the house on fire because you feel cold while sitting naked inside the fridge.
Downed system supports larger groups
Been a common complaint since the beta.
Nerfing downstate health is a good way to increase skill-over-numbers. Start a downstate at say 25% health; something of that nature.
It’s a lot better since the change of 1 for 1. Was so annoying watching a pug die that wasnt part of your group and having 5ppl in the opposing large group get up that you had worked hard to down.
@Silbefederleleing learn to read the posts please and understand them while doing so,because clearly..You’re missing a bunch of important points regarding the outmanned fights that are being described by some here.
problem in this game its not downed state its the almost infinite aoe dmg and burst dmg we get , right now i miss old WoW BG’s, (t’ill level70), where gear with defense really works, they called resilience.
Thougness in GW2 doesn’t work at all.
And aoe dmg in large groups means insta death if you stay in one place trying to stomp any enemy .
problem in this game its not downed state its the almost infinite aoe dmg and burst dmg we get , right now i miss old WoW BG’s, (t’ill level70), where gear with defense really works, they called resilience.
Thougness in GW2 doesn’t work at all.
And aoe dmg in large groups means insta death if you stay in one place trying to stomp any enemy .
It probably wouldn’t hurt for toughness to also grant some condition/crit dmg reduction.
It probably wouldn’t hurt for toughness to also grant some condition/crit dmg reduction.
The problem is having tanks in PvP is broken. You cant have 3 people all on 1 target on point not being able to kill him, but in WvW tanks are an asset. It goes back to 3 different game modes that are vastly different, and not wanting to break them up by Anet.
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