Guild Wars 2

First off, this is and or will not be a nerf, its a silly bug that needs to be fixed. Secondly, my main is an ele!!!! I bought him a commander tag, and i do a LOT of commanding! Now, for those of you who dont know, there is a skill called dragons tooth for eles scepter fire #2 skill that, if you have something targetted, requires NO line of sight to cast! This is a huge problem for siege inside keeps and towers!!! An ele or two can take down siege no problem in under 2 minutes! The skill itself is PERFECTLY fine BESIDES the fact you dont need line of sight! that is just stupid! I will be taking down rams with my arrow cart, and well what do ya know! a dragons tooth is now on top of my face. So im either forced to redirect my arrow cart to the ele(s) trying to take it down, and let the rams keep on going, or keep on the rams hoping the dragons tooth wont take down the cart fast enough. Problem 1- if i focus fire on the ele(s) who are hitting the cart, im not protecting the tower by trying to kill the rams before they can get in. If by a remote chance i down the eles, they will be revived in 3 seconds, just to keep on the dragons tooth again. Problem 2- if i keep on the rams and happen to kill the rams before the dragons tooth kills the cart, GJ. They run supplies to a near camp to build another while the eles kill the cart inside of a tower with 0 supplies. see this disparity? anyone else agree? if there are ANY other skills that dont require LOS, that needs to be fixed too. No reason siege should be taken down so easily like this.

Dragon’s Tooth needs to be given a line of sight mechanic. Epidemic was apparently deemed OP with no LOS (it wasn’t). I see no reason to for DT not to be treated the same.

Well, personally I think its great that a class has something that make it “necessary” in WvW. All classes should have this.

Well except the ranger, they would be useless regardless.

Eles have been asking for DT to be ground target since launch. It would instantly make the skill useful in combat and fix this bug/exploit.

Definitely needs a fix.

Dawdler.8521:

Well, personally I think its great that a class has something that make it “necessary” in WvW. All classes should have this.

Yeah, it’s not like Elementalists aren’t great in WvW as skirmishers or support with fields or anything.

DT hits pretty hard too.

Fortunately Scepter is not a mainstay of most eles and most are too lazy to switch weapons for this use.

Still should be changed though.

Im fine with fixing DT but at some point the devs have to give some ’fun’ features back to the elementalist class.

I’m getting really tired of..

1) Press ’5’ key
2) Switch Attunements
3) Repeat 1,2

I’ve been gaming for 15 years and I cant recall ever feeling as bored as I do when playing a staff ele.

Kravick.4906:

Dragon’s Tooth needs to be given a line of sight mechanic.

Why? And you do need some line of sight to intially target it.

morrolan.9608:

Kravick.4906:

Dragon’s Tooth needs to be given a line of sight mechanic.

Why? And you do need some line of sight to intially target it.

you bursted their bubble, now they will tell that you’re bad bad bad….

the only thing DT needs is a faster casting time.

morrolan.9608:

Kravick.4906:

Dragon’s Tooth needs to be given a line of sight mechanic.

Why? And you do need some line of sight to intially target it.

Actually, you don’t.

Turn auto-targeting on walk next to wall with AC above and fire.

Draygo.9473:

morrolan.9608:

Kravick.4906:

Dragon’s Tooth needs to be given a line of sight mechanic.

Why? And you do need some line of sight to intially target it.

Actually, you don’t.

Turn auto-targeting on walk next to wall with AC above and fire.

Well fix that then and don’t get rid of the unique mechanic that DT has that gives Ele scepter some utility.

And anyway how does that differ from other placed AOEs?

If 5k damage on a stationary object every 4.75seconds if traited in full glass is gamebreaking what are thieves who can do more vs mobile players and stealth away?

If its so destructive to you why don’t you just shoot the ele with something from the wall? He will likely die or run in 3 shots from practically any class.

Solo.9027:

If 5k damage on a stationary object every 4.75seconds if traited in full glass is gamebreaking what are thieves who can do more vs mobile players and stealth away?

If its so destructive to you why don’t you just shoot the ele with something from the wall? He will likely die or run in 3 shots from practically any class.

Pretty much this ^

It takes a looooong time to kill even an arrow cart with dragon’s tooth, and it isn’t going to kill the operator or even knock them off preventing them from firing back. It also has a short range, so you know they are close, just aoe the wall as close to the cart as you can, that’s where they have to stand.

Wow! Look at all the Elementalists in this thread defending their exploit of a very obvious bug!

It doesn’t take that long to kill an arrow cart.
I’ve seen elementalists get off 1 or 2 DT hits, die, come back and continue hitting the same arrow cart until it was gone.
Rinse and repeat for all siege placed on the tower.

It’s a bug and you know it.

idk why DT still has no LoS. People complained about izerker for the longest time when they were used for this very same reason, to destroy inside siege, They should just remove the ability for all classes to be able to hit objects/players without los.

Its currently working as inteded as anet said it was, but it gives an unfair edge to this class that other classes can’t do. Not saying its so unfair its game breaking, but if theyre gonna take it away from other classes, they might as well do it for all classes.

Nokaru.7831:

Wow! Look at all the Elementalists in this thread defending their exploit of a very obvious bug!

How about you actually refute the points raised if you can. 2 days ago I was on an AC being repeatedly DTed on my ele and kept firing quite easily and while my ele isn’t glass (2.5k armor and 17k health) its not a bunker.

I say this should be fixed not so much from a balance perspective but from a logic one.

If I can use my warhorn to call birds on somebody and the moment I lose LoS on the person my birds stop doing damage due to ’obstructed’ (while still on the person’s head). Why should an ele be able to cast a spell without LoS?

If birds sitting on someone’s head stop doing damage because they can’t see me anymore, why should anything? Are the birds unionized and stop working the moment their boss stops looking?

Obvious bug is obvious.

nirvana.8245:

Obvious bug is obvious.

Yup. However, it’s really only an issue in wvw and not exactly a game breaking one, so I doubt Anet will ever fix it.

Noooo! An AC (that doesn’t require LoS) is getting hit by a skill that doesn’t require LoS!

It’s an otherwise useless skill in PvP, that goes some way to avoiding the escalating siege wars that pervade WvW. And the ‘bug’ has been well-known since, like, September. I think Anet could have ‘fixed’ it by now if they thought it was broken.

Liquid.9672:

nirvana.8245:

Obvious bug is obvious.

Yup. However, it’s really only an issue in wvw and not exactly a game breaking one, so I doubt Anet will ever fix it.

I find it contributing to game break scenarios I run into, like the one I just did. I defend a tower with around 30 players. We had 6 AC setup inside. A few eles come in and DT 4 of them. Then the last two they couldn’t get so they dropped a few AC themselves and some how magically hit a target I cannot see with my FOV. Then when they had 4 AC and started firing on us in the tower, again with no normal FOV, whilst we could not build AC it became a bit of a problem to defend against those larger numbers.

It’s an in-game logic fix that Anet need to attend to at some point in the future. Phantasms were given LOS restrictions due to the exact same reason. More consistency please!

Phantasmal Berserker was “nerfed” or “fixed” when it didn’t require LOS to cast, I don’t see this being any different or is it a case of double standards?

Zamiel.2130:

Phantasmal Berserker was “nerfed” or “fixed” when it didn’t require LOS to cast, I don’t see this being any different or is it a case of double standards?

It’s a completely different skill for one thing. Dragon’s tooths (teeth?) don’t hang around dealing more damage every couple seconds unless you get off the AC fast and kill them, so the functionality if different.

Talking of “double standards” when discussing different professions that were designed to have different skills is a bit misleading.

It might be a bug, but if it is, that has never been even alluded to by a developer as far as I know. Several skills were given a LoS requirement at the same time, soon after release. Dragon’s tooth has been known to have this functionality since beta.

I’d be all for making it ground targetable though. I’d much rather have a usable blast finisher and the possibility of actually hitting a player with it occasionally. Currently it’s main function is to be a suicide move when commanders who read the forums and think it will instakill siege or something demand all the eles switch to scepter, thus rendering themselves useless in the actual siege.

As was mentioned above, and arrow cart (especially with a traited master operator) is far superior for clearing siege.

Actually this has been around and talked about back even during beta’s… We ask for Dragons tooth to be ground target so it is more “Skilled” to use. As for using it to destroy siege, that is all it is good for and we have to be right up against wall to use it. If you are only 1 person trying to defend a keep, then they deserve to have DT kill them, but if you have a team, it only takes 1 person hitting the ele to keep him at a far enough away distance…

Please make Dragons Tooth Ground target and speed up its drop speed so it can actually hit something more than a stationary siege weapon.

Peetee.9406:

Im fine with fixing DT but at some point the devs have to give some ‘fun’ features back to the elementalist class.

I’m getting really tired of..

1) Press ‘5’ key
2) Switch Attunements
3) Repeat 1,2

I’ve been gaming for 15 years and I cant recall ever feeling as bored as I do when playing a staff ele.

If that’s how you staff ele, you are not very good…

Don’t they also have other skills that are good to AoE on the walls? I mean they are much better they almost can attack the whole wall where even not the Grenades of an engineer can reach.

I think it’s just the way it works… if that stuff comes from above it does not need a line of sight.

morrolan.9608:

And anyway how does that differ from other placed AOEs?

Other placed AOE require LOS to place a target for one…

2) you can hit stuff on walls with DT that even MS with extra AOE radius will not hit, I have personally seen this while in a group of Eles where no one could get damage with MS but we could DT.

3) you can hit stuff behind walls.

Stop trying (badly) to defend a broken skill.

out of the 100 eles in wvw, you can probably find like 2-3 using scepter, lol.

Still don’t understand why they don’t allow elementalist to switch weapon in combat(you can’t really 1v1 with staff, and u can’t siege with d/d). If the 20 fresh new skills is their concern, then all they need to do is to make all weapon skills/attunement on full cd when switching weapons for eles.

Every other weapon skill requires LoS. Why should DT be any different?

I now consider the use of Dragon’s Tooth to destroy siege without LOS an exploit. I was messing around with my Ele in WvW yesterday and I was able to destroy an arrowcart that was more or less behind the wall of a keep (just offset at the top of a set of stairs) with 6 casts of Dragon’s tooth. As funny as it is to clear siege intentionally placed to avoid attacker damage, this really does need to be fixed.

I’ve never come across an ele in WvW using scepter. Most are staff (who do more than just press 5 and change attunements, by the way – you’re doing it wrong if that’s all you’re doing) and the remaining few are d/d.

But back on topic, DT doesn’t hit all that hard (especially when people are running PVT) and it’s so slow. I can burst down an ele from the beginning of the animation to when the tooth actually drops. Why would you complain about the one situation where DT could be even remotely useful?

^^this.

I carry a Sceptre for this and only this purpose. I’ve used it maybe twice in the last month.
It’s highly situational and a complete pain to use.

Dunno why anyone would get worked up about it.

Just because its a bad weapon in your opinion, doesn’t justify its ability to be used without the LoS requirements other weapon skills had to conform to cough iZerker cough.

Every class has its share of bad/highly situation weapons and that should not be an excuse for allowing it to abuse game mechanics like LoS.

morrolan.9608:

Nokaru.7831:

Wow! Look at all the Elementalists in this thread defending their exploit of a very obvious bug!

How about you actually refute the points raised if you can. 2 days ago I was on an AC being repeatedly DTed on my ele and kept firing quite easily and while my ele isn’t glass (2.5k armor and 17k health) its not a bunker.

Refute what point? You think it’s fair Elementalists allowed to cast spells through walls?

I’d give you a well-constructed logical argument if I wasn’t buckling over with laughter every time I began doing it.

If they nerf dt they gotta nerf seige so it can’t hit thru gates and so it can always be hit by at least meteor storm one in every 5 casts

How is this still not fixed? After running into ele who destroyed my AC on top of thick keep gate with dragon tooth that even firestorm coud not reach I ran to next tower and placed AC inside the tower. After zerg capped that keep they went for next tower where I was waiting on AC. Didn’t matter that AC was inside the tower, that ele still was able to kill it…

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2673/fx7k.jpg

Insyder.3871:

How is this still not fixed? After running into ele who destroyed my AC on top of thick keep gate with dragon tooth that even firestorm coud not reach I ran to next tower and placed AC inside the tower. After zerg capped that keep they went for next tower where I was waiting on AC. Didn’t matter that AC was inside the tower, that ele still was able to kill it…

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2673/fx7k.jpg

That is terrible AC placement. Learn how “range” works and you’ll know that ac’s can be built much, much further back….. outside of dragon’s tooth range.

So basically what you are saying is that the only “right” siege placement is 900+ units away from nearest wall/gate?
I haven’t encountered scepter eles who are abusing this bug in like 3-4 months, so this was a nice refresher. I actually thought they fixed it and that’s why I didn’t see this in a long time, but nope bug/feature still exists. I hope more eles abuse it so that anet may actually look into this and fix it.

Insyder.3871:

So basically what you are saying is that the only “right” siege placement is 900+ units away from nearest wall/gate?

No its got to be where the ele can’t put a target on it. In your picture there is line of sight over the gate so of course its targetable. I would also note that theoretically putting an AC in that position shouldn’t be able to hit those siegeing the gate therefore if they change the DT they should also change the way ACs work.

Insyder.3871:

I haven’t encountered scepter eles who are abusing this bug in like 3-4 months, so this was a nice refresher. I actually thought they fixed it and that’s why I didn’t see this in a long time, but nope bug/feature still exists. I hope more eles abuse it so that anet may actually look into this and fix it.

Its not a bug, its the way the ability works.

this has been a bog/exploit for months. we had eles dargontouthing siege that should not be reachable at all and it has been very annoying

Why is it a bug?

morrolan.9608:

Insyder.3871:

So basically what you are saying is that the only “right” siege placement is 900+ units away from nearest wall/gate?

No its got to be where the ele can’t put a target on it. In your picture there is line of sight over the gate so of course its targetable. I would also note that theoretically putting an AC in that position shouldn’t be able to hit those siegeing the gate therefore if they change the DT they should also change the way ACs work.

Insyder.3871:

I haven’t encountered scepter eles who are abusing this bug in like 3-4 months, so this was a nice refresher. I actually thought they fixed it and that’s why I didn’t see this in a long time, but nope bug/feature still exists. I hope more eles abuse it so that anet may actually look into this and fix it.

Its not a bug, its the way the ability works.

exactly, its not a bug. If its close enough to the edge of the wall that it can be hit by the DT, then its close enough to be hit by any other ground targeted aoe cast at the top edge of the wall.

Also if you cant kill an ele thats standing right up against the wall with your 6 AC then you need to l2p or get off the AC… Just saying.

DT is a poorly designed skill in general. Untargeted should DT directly on the ele. I don’t care either way about LoS but I would definitely like DT to be ground targeted. It would actually be useful as a blast finisher then.

make it ground targeted

please

why is this so hard

i made a post about it ages ago….0 flying cows was given by anet

Phantasmal berserker summoned an attack that hit enemies without requiring line of sight. It was nerfed so that it required line of sight to hit.

DT summons an attack that hits enemies without requiring line of sight. Only fair it should be treated the same.

Zephyrus.9680:

DT is a poorly designed skill in general. Untargeted should DT directly on the ele. I don’t care either way about LoS but I would definitely like DT to be ground targeted. It would actually be useful as a blast finisher then.

That made me lol. I would like to see that.