Guild Wars 2

I’ve heard that people employ Duo PU mesmers scouts who shadow the enemy zerg RIGHT BESIDE THEM with 100% invis uptime.

Please fix this.

Edit: I forgot to add, they lay supply traps all along the path that the zerg will most likely walk and the zerg ends up with zero supply.

edit 2: i also forgot to add, duo mesmers hiding in keeps/towers/smc/garri and flipping it without being found while they hid cos they were perma stealth!

A single Thief has been able to do this for 3 years, what make 2 Mesmers so much more OP?

Seriously, what Dawdler said above. Thief could have done this since forever and now suddenly mesmer can and you call for nerf? Stop. right. now.

If you can’t handle 2 mesmers laying traps for your zerg then use something called stealth trap. It exists for a reason.

a thief can drop black powered and yeah people blast it but that takes time, people have to stop moving and call downs. I have seen on my server 4-5 mesmers using mass inivis. the result is 60 seconds of zerg wide stealth

We kinda need less invis, not more in wvw :/

Fat Disgrace.4275:

a thief can drop black powered and yeah people blast it but that takes time, people have to stop moving and call downs. I have seen on my server 4-5 mesmers using mass inivis. the result is 60 seconds of zerg wide stealth

A zerg of 10? lol, stop making up stuff.

Ballads.2509:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

a thief can drop black powered and yeah people blast it but that takes time, people have to stop moving and call downs. I have seen on my server 4-5 mesmers using mass inivis. the result is 60 seconds of zerg wide stealth

A zerg of 10? lol, stop making up stuff.

who said 10?
mind you this was on the patch day, a guild grp of 20 did have 60 seconds of stealth because of mass invisible.

Not sure how two mesmers could remain permanently invis. I suspect there’s other classes at play too and maybe the OP just doesn’t understand the mechanics?

The timer on PU only adds two seconds to existing stealth for a total of 10 seconds with the elite skill. Other invis spells are 5secs or less of stealth. Then all have a really really long cooldown time, so you can’t pop invis over and over to get permastealth.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Ballads.2509:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

a thief can drop black powered and yeah people blast it but that takes time, people have to stop moving and call downs. I have seen on my server 4-5 mesmers using mass inivis. the result is 60 seconds of zerg wide stealth

A zerg of 10? lol, stop making up stuff.

who said 10?
mind you this was on the patch day, a guild grp of 20 did have 60 seconds of stealth because of mass invisible.

You said 4-5 mesmers. Mass Invis only stealths up to 10 people for 10 seconds if traited. If so, any more than 10 people would be getting up to 50 seconds, 60 if there was indeed a sixth mesmer, and so the inconsistency in your statement. A guild of 20 could not have gained 60 seconds of stealth from a party of 5 mesmers.

Jayne.9251:

Not sure how two mesmers could remain permanently invis. I suspect there’s other classes at play too and maybe the OP just doesn’t understand the mechanics?

The timer on PU only adds two seconds to existing stealth for a total of 10 seconds with the elite skill. Other invis spells are 5secs or less of stealth. Then all have a really really long cooldown time, so you can’t pop invis over and over to get permastealth.

New PU doubles stealth uptime, so Mass Invis is 10 seconds, Veil for 4 seconds, Decoy and Prestige for 6 each. So with 2 mesmers, they’d get 20 seconds from Mass Invis, 8 seconds from Veil, and 12 from both Decoy and Prestige since its not shared. Thus a total of… 40 seconds of stealth. Considering that Decoy and Prestige, if used first, would be just off CD, then another 12, so 52 seconds of stealth.

Still, this is taking 2 mesmers to get and only affecting each other, impossible to cover a whole zerg in such a way.

Yes but the decoy and prestige are self-only and do have a shorter timer cooldown, but do not affect any other players — so even if they paired up, they could only invis a group for 14 seconds total (each) — and mass invis has a 90 second cooldown. Veil is 90 seconds as well. (And decoy is 40 seconds, prestige is the only fast one really at 30 seconds).

So I can’t see how they could permastealth. Something else is up there.

engineers have a trait that can reveal stealthed opponents just by hitting them so there is counterplay but! engis recent mortarnerf makes them completely unviable in wvw atm

Jayne.9251:

Yes but the decoy and prestige are self-only and do have a shorter timer cooldown, but do not affect any other players — so even if they paired up, they could only invis a group for 14 seconds total (each) — and mass invis has a 90 second cooldown. Veil is 90 seconds as well. (And decoy is 40 seconds, prestige is the only fast one really at 30 seconds).

So I can’t see how they could permastealth. Something else is up there.

Prestige comes off cd a lot faster, with torch trait each second in stealth reduced the cd of torch skill by 1 1/2 sec, so after 12 seconds of stealth prestige is up again.

f(x)= 30secCD – (x * 1,5) – x=y
30 – (x * 1,5) – x = 0 |-30
=> -x * 1,5 – x = -30 | t
=> x (-1,5 – 1) = -30 | /-2,5
=> x= 12secCD

on reddit someone said it’s possible for a singel mesmer, to get 47 sec of stealth. after this he will be visible for a few seconds.

Thieves don’t have portals though. I can see a mesmer group being perma stealthed inside an enemy keep being an issue. Provided they can really keep that 100% up. It would make sweeping pointless because they can just keep moving and avoiding the sweep. Thieves are a bit squishy so even if they stay in a keep it takes a good one to take out a lord solo.

Coyote.7031:

Thieves don’t have portals though. I can see a mesmer group being perma stealthed inside an enemy keep being an issue. Provided they can really keep that 100% up. It would make sweeping pointless because they can just keep moving and avoiding the sweep. Thieves are a bit squishy so even if they stay in a keep it takes a good one to take out a lord solo.

indeed. before patch it required 1 thief and a mesmer to stay perma stealth and portal zerg back in. now it requires….gasp… the same. or 2 mesmers can now do it. still requires same amount of people as before patch.

Ps. would like to say i main mesmer and would be happy with pu nerf so i dont have to run it in roaming.(also 72 second cd on mass invis with trait)

Realistically speaking a thief isn’t gonna stealth a blob, either. That’d take simultaneous blasts on a single BP across the entire blob while all standing on the same location every few seconds.

Even renowned guild groups like Agg and EP are not so tight and coordinated to make this work, otherwise they’d have done so for a really long time.

DeceiverX.8361:

Realistically speaking a thief isn’t gonna stealth a blob, either. That’d take simultaneous blasts on a single BP across the entire blob while all standing on the same location every few seconds.

Even renowned guild groups like Agg and EP are not so tight and coordinated to make this work, otherwise they’d have done so for a really long time.

Lol you haven’t played vs Kodash

My second day on EU (two years ago), scouting Klovan, I see three Kodash appear and watch very, very closely. Suddenly a previously entirely invisible blob of 20 appeared at the front gate, with six golems. All thieves did it. Was jaw dropping. Knew then that I loved EU WvW, lol.

Jayne.9251:

DeceiverX.8361:

Realistically speaking a thief isn’t gonna stealth a blob, either. That’d take simultaneous blasts on a single BP across the entire blob while all standing on the same location every few seconds.

Even renowned guild groups like Agg and EP are not so tight and coordinated to make this work, otherwise they’d have done so for a really long time.

Lol you haven’t played vs Kodash

My second day on EU (two years ago), scouting Klovan, I see three Kodash appear and watch very, very closely. Suddenly a previously entirely invisible blob of 20 appeared at the front gate, with six golems. All thieves did it. Was jaw dropping. Knew then that I loved EU WvW, lol.

I should have specified: “Realistically speaking, a single thief isn’t gonna stealth a blob.”

A couple certainly can with good smaller-scale coordination and spread BP’s to cover everyone. Golems might actually make it easier due to their slower movespeed keeping everyone grouped better. But as mentioned, multiple mesmers can also do this.

Props to them, though. Don’t see plays like that much on NA. If EU wasn’t a lag-fest, I’d love to try playing there since their WvW community is a lot more solid than NA’s it seems.

Ishbaal.1503:

indeed. before patch it required 1 thief and a mesmer to stay perma stealth and portal zerg back in. now it requires….gasp… the same. or 2 mesmers can now do it. still requires same amount of people as before patch.

Ps. would like to say i main mesmer and would be happy with pu nerf so i dont have to run it in roaming.(also 72 second cd on mass invis with trait)

Oh I know. Just pointing out that mesmers are more dangerous than a thief in a keep. A thief might ambush a few people, but a mesmer could bring a whole zerg in. Engineers have that reveal trait now, so at least there’s a counter. Might still be tricky to catch them if their good though.

DeceiverX.8361:

If EU wasn’t a lag-fest, I’d love to try playing there since their WvW community is a lot more solid than NA’s it seems.

I actually find I lag more on NA servers than I do in EU. Someone explained it was because I live on the East Coast NA, so the ping is better. Odd. But true

Edited to add; Rikit, I’ll take your word for it .. the minute I see math, brain shuts down, lol.

grab an engi
equip utility goggles
spec for tools choosing appropriate traits
spam aoe
use analzye
18 seconds of reveal on 20 seconds cooldown

too bad those mesmers got no more stun breaks since they burned their utilities, likely got no condi clear and will get mauled by the friendly zerg

engi respecs back on the run.

I do agree that double stealth duration is a bit lulzy

To all honesty, it’s kinda disgusting now Mesmers are defending their perma-stealth, while they used to complain about thief for the perma-stealth stuff.

Truly disgusting double standard.

Coyote.7031:

Ishbaal.1503:

indeed. before patch it required 1 thief and a mesmer to stay perma stealth and portal zerg back in. now it requires….gasp… the same. or 2 mesmers can now do it. still requires same amount of people as before patch.

Ps. would like to say i main mesmer and would be happy with pu nerf so i dont have to run it in roaming.(also 72 second cd on mass invis with trait)

Oh I know. Just pointing out that mesmers are more dangerous than a thief in a keep. A thief might ambush a few people, but a mesmer could bring a whole zerg in. Engineers have that reveal trait now, so at least there’s a counter. Might still be tricky to catch them if their good though.

Could a thief solo a keep before or now? Probably not by their self no. Could a Mesmer go die in a great place hidden inside of inner and wait for the perma-stealthed thief to come res him then go port the entire Zerg in? Yup lol. Thieves can be just as bad as mesmers because they can res any dead inside if they were smart enough to die in a good place and then before you know it the tower you thought was clear is full of enemy inc all over again. Thieves may not be able to bring the port to the Zerg themselves but they’ve always been able to bring the Mesmers who could back up.

Moonlit.6421:

Could a thief solo a keep before or now? Probably not by their self no. Could a Mesmer go die in a great place hidden inside of inner and wait for the perma-stealthed thief to come res him then go port the entire Zerg in? Yup lol. Thieves can be just as bad as mesmers because they can res any dead inside if they were smart enough to die in a good place and then before you know it the tower you thought was clear is full of enemy inc all over again. Thieves may not be able to bring the port to the Zerg themselves but they’ve always been able to bring the Mesmers who could back up.

If you are leaving a mesmer who hasn’t waypointed that’s asking to lose your keep. If he’s still there, that should be a redflag that he’s not alone. And he’s forced to waypoint after 5 minutes, so you only have to guard the corpse for 5 minutes.

Maybe so, but it’s often overlooked or left unattended because a lot of people just don’t have the patience or care to wait and even if they only leave 1-2 guarding some thieves are proficient enough to be able to stealth and distract while they revive. I personally don’t mind it the new stealth that much anyways, make people work for it. Most people by now know all the Mesmer hiding spots available so it’s getting harder and harder to survive, this puts a fun little spin on it lol. People just need to embrace the challenge and try an have fun

I personally have taken at least 10 minutes to res a mesmer with a large group guarding me. Before the corpse timer patch.. It is certainly reasonable..

We did get the zerg in..

Also I’ve had my timer get bugged quite a few times from partial res and not force me to respawn.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I’ve heard that people employ Duo PU mesmers scouts who shadow the enemy zerg RIGHT BESIDE THEM with 100% invis uptime.

Please fix this.

Edit: I forgot to add, they lay supply traps all along the path that the zerg will most likely walk and the zerg ends up with zero supply.

edit 2: i also forgot to add, duo mesmers hiding in keeps/towers/smc/garri and flipping it without being found while they hid cos they were perma stealth!

Its not 100% invis uptime. Mesmers have 2 abilities only that let them stealth each other and it only lasts a few secs and their individual abilities do not cover the rest. They have to LOS the zerg to fill in the gaps, then it may seem like it is 100% cause you won’t see them, but that is a perfectly solid tactic on their part, especially if they have to coordinate use of their abilities, including an elite skill.

Anet doesn’t actually play PvP/WvW. If they did they would know there was NO REASON to give mesmers double the stealth duration. It blows my mind.

I won’t even mention how you can troll a capped enemy tower with 2 mesmers just because I don’t want to see more people doing it.

Tongku.5326:

EremiteAngel.9765:

I’ve heard that people employ Duo PU mesmers scouts who shadow the enemy zerg RIGHT BESIDE THEM with 100% invis uptime.

Please fix this.

Edit: I forgot to add, they lay supply traps all along the path that the zerg will most likely walk and the zerg ends up with zero supply.

edit 2: i also forgot to add, duo mesmers hiding in keeps/towers/smc/garri and flipping it without being found while they hid cos they were perma stealth!

Its not 100% invis uptime. Mesmers have 2 abilities only that let them stealth each other and it only lasts a few secs and their individual abilities do not cover the rest. They have to LOS the zerg to fill in the gaps, then it may seem like it is 100% cause you won’t see them, but that is a perfectly solid tactic on their part, especially if they have to coordinate use of their abilities, including an elite skill.

Which is really not difficult to do if they are using any form of voice chat like most WvW players do.

Rikit Runk.5170:

Jayne.9251:

Yes but the decoy and prestige are self-only and do have a shorter timer cooldown, but do not affect any other players — so even if they paired up, they could only invis a group for 14 seconds total (each) — and mass invis has a 90 second cooldown. Veil is 90 seconds as well. (And decoy is 40 seconds, prestige is the only fast one really at 30 seconds).

So I can’t see how they could permastealth. Something else is up there.

Prestige comes off cd a lot faster, with torch trait each second in stealth reduced the cd of torch skill by 1 1/2 sec, so after 12 seconds of stealth prestige is up again.

f(x)= 30secCD – (x * 1,5) – x=y
30 – (x * 1,5) – x = 0 |-30
=> -x * 1,5 – x = -30 | t
=> x (-1,5 – 1) = -30 | /-2,5
=> x= 12secCD

on reddit someone said it’s possible for a singel mesmer, to get 47 sec of stealth. after this he will be visible for a few seconds.

Only 47? That is not the optimum. With MI, Torch (traited), Mimic and Decoy a PU Mesmer alone can get 57s of stealth.

Oh god, seriously you don’t even need stealth to be a competent scout. Its very easy to scout on a visible class with movement, a nike warrior could scout, rangers are great scouts, thieves without stealth can scout. All of these classes can easily escape a zerg and keep tabs for the enemy.

Hey I know, why don’t we just take away swiftness or any movement enhancing effect as well because you might not be able to catch them. Better yet if any solo or duo get within 1500 of your zerg maybe they should just self implode.

To sum this up for those of you who are about to make the argument of stealth, you are going to be scouted by a competent scout whether they are stealth or not.

TyPin.9860:

Rikit Runk.5170:

Jayne.9251:

Yes but the decoy and prestige are self-only and do have a shorter timer cooldown, but do not affect any other players — so even if they paired up, they could only invis a group for 14 seconds total (each) — and mass invis has a 90 second cooldown. Veil is 90 seconds as well. (And decoy is 40 seconds, prestige is the only fast one really at 30 seconds).

So I can’t see how they could permastealth. Something else is up there.

Prestige comes off cd a lot faster, with torch trait each second in stealth reduced the cd of torch skill by 1 1/2 sec, so after 12 seconds of stealth prestige is up again.

f(x)= 30secCD – (x * 1,5) – x=y
30 – (x * 1,5) – x = 0 |-30
=> -x * 1,5 – x = -30 | t
=> x (-1,5 – 1) = -30 | /-2,5
=> x= 12secCD

on reddit someone said it’s possible for a singel mesmer, to get 47 sec of stealth. after this he will be visible for a few seconds.

Only 47? That is not the optimum. With MI, Torch (traited), Mimic and Decoy a PU Mesmer alone can get 57s of stealth.

But after even that amount of time, they will be revealed, because everything is on cool down. So basically count to 60, then voila.

@Jayne:
That is correct. This is also assuming the Mesmer goes into Chaos and Illusions and is blowing a lot of cool downs.

[/quote]
Could a thief solo a keep before or now? Probably not by their self no. [/quote]

I’d be embarrassed if i couldn’t take a keep. Solo, to kill the guards and Lord takes me between 7-8 minutes. Post patch. A little longer pre patch.

On one day last week I hid inside hills on two consecutive occasions and was easily taking it back but but our small zerg got inside to finish off the last 10%-15% of the lord. Both times.

Yesterday i hid inside gari and took it from sbi when they left. Second time i hid, a mesmer had died in the lords room, so i res’d him and he ported in three people. Game over.

A good condi thief can solo Stone Mist as well.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_poGo6mWygc

That link shows how i did it twice. I got recording software for the third time but that enemy zerg waylaid my plans.

Still, it shows how easy it can be done.