Guild Wars 2

There is no such thing as backline any more because of the two things listed in the title. As much as I wasn’t a fan of the pirate ship meta Pre-Hot, its gone too far the other way. Front-lines have become completely unkillable unless everyone in the zerg single targets a single individual which means that 30v30 fights (organized guild groups) can legit last 20+ minutes and if you are close to a spawn with people running back, it WONT end.

Right now front-lines are sitting at permanent 43% damage reduction (permanent protection cuz durability plus 10% damage reduction food) with about 50% uptime on 60% damage reduction (Great Dwarf plus 10% damage reduction food). And on top of this they have permanent resistance between durability runes and Pain Absorption with facet of nature popped (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Absorption).

SO to sum it up, 60% damage reduction, permanent resistance and protection, plus heals coming from guardians, druids, and tempests. Its just too much. You guys nerfed pack runes yet leave durability completely untouched.

For those that need to see a video to realize how ridiculous this has become:

https://youtu.be/hl9_NYnj5yU

Pretty terrible focus they had, looked more like a spam fest without enough spike damage focused on the right targets.

I do miss death penalty though, would be great for proper gvg fights (not these ‘mash keyboard and run in a circle’ gvgs).

I’m not a fan of guild fights for precisely the reasons the OP gives, as well as the fact that without proper maps it’s just a steering competition.

Ok, I know I’m dissing the skill involved- there is quite a bit of skill and timing on rotations going on but gw2 doesn’t really lend itself to large scale fights, the balance for it is all focused on 5 man fights and pve.

thankitten.6307:

There is no such thing as backline any more because of the two things listed in the title. As much as I wasn’t a fan of the pirate ship meta Pre-Hot, its gone too far the other way. Front-lines have become completely unkillable unless everyone in the zerg single targets a single individual which means that 30v30 fights (organized guild groups) can legit last 20+ minutes and if you are close to a spawn with people running back, it WONT end.

Right now front-lines are sitting at permanent 43% damage reduction (permanent protection cuz durability plus 10% damage reduction food) with about 50% uptime on 60% damage reduction (Great Dwarf plus 10% damage reduction food). And on top of this they have permanent resistance between durability runes and Pain Absorption with facet of nature popped (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Absorption).

SO to sum it up, 60% damage reduction, permanent resistance and protection, plus heals coming from guardians, druids, and tempests. Its just too much. You guys nerfed pack runes yet leave durability completely untouched.

For those that need to see a video to realize how ridiculous this has become:

https://youtu.be/hl9_NYnj5yU

Your calculation for damage reduction is false, just saying. Damage reduction is not additive, but compounded. I.e… 33% protection plus 10% damage reduction from rune does not equal 43% overall damage reduction. I think it comes to something like 35% or something like that.

I agree that the meta has become a bit ridiculous but your guild’s comp is just as bad. If you want to have any reasonably exciting fights I suggest roaming.

I agree in that focusing a certain target to the ground is probably about the only thing people can do nowadays and that outside of “sniping” a person, extremely poor positioning is the only thing that will get a frontliner killed.

Now if perhaps your pick team was competent that fight would have ended sooner… oh wait you don’t have one.

Hexalot.8194:

Your calculation for damage reduction is false, just saying. Damage reduction is not additive, but compounded. I.e… 33% protection plus 10% damage reduction from rune does not equal 43% overall damage reduction. I think it comes to something like 35% or something like that.

Protection given by tempest is 40% not 33%. That’s why it’s 43 and not 35.

Jeknar.6184:

Hexalot.8194:

Your calculation for damage reduction is false, just saying. Damage reduction is not additive, but compounded. I.e… 33% protection plus 10% damage reduction from rune does not equal 43% overall damage reduction. I think it comes to something like 35% or something like that.

Protection given by tempest is 40% not 33%. That’s why it’s 43 and not 35.

I was replying to the OP where I’m fairly certain he wasn’t talking about tempest protection.

Fake!
tag didn’t have perma resistance!

I remember a long, long time ago Anet nerfed glamor mesmers because they though applying so much confusion in WvW zerging was imbalanced.

This boon cancer is way worse IMO.

Jeknar.6184:

Hexalot.8194:

Your calculation for damage reduction is false, just saying. Damage reduction is not additive, but compounded. I.e… 33% protection plus 10% damage reduction from rune does not equal 43% overall damage reduction. I think it comes to something like 35% or something like that.

Protection given by tempest is 40% not 33%. That’s why it’s 43 and not 35.

Technically incorrect. Protection on Tempest is 40%, protection on everyone else is 33%. Protection ON a tempest is modified to be higher, not the protection given out.

thankitten.6307:

There is no such thing as backline any more because of the two things listed in the title. As much as I wasn’t a fan of the pirate ship meta Pre-Hot, its gone too far the other way. Front-lines have become completely unkillable unless everyone in the zerg single targets a single individual which means that 30v30 fights (organized guild groups) can legit last 20+ minutes and if you are close to a spawn with people running back, it WONT end.

Right now front-lines are sitting at permanent 43% damage reduction (permanent protection cuz durability plus 10% damage reduction food) with about 50% uptime on 60% damage reduction (Great Dwarf plus 10% damage reduction food). And on top of this they have permanent resistance between durability runes and Pain Absorption with facet of nature popped (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Absorption).

SO to sum it up, 60% damage reduction, permanent resistance and protection, plus heals coming from guardians, druids, and tempests. Its just too much. You guys nerfed pack runes yet leave durability completely untouched.

For those that need to see a video to realize how ridiculous this has become:

https://youtu.be/hl9_NYnj5yU

This is a resistance issue over anything else. The full immunity is crap. If you could slow down melee trains with chill, cripple, and immobilize and resistance only affected the damaging conditions or damaging portions of a condition (with conditions like poison) then WvW would be more balanced and not lop-sided towards melee trains.

So this is a problem for others that groups tank up so much that they can not kill anything? How are others getting a resistance problem out of this? I didn’t see resistance spammed on any toon that was targeted or the driver .

What about the problem of only 3 necros?

I would love to see a view from the other side, but my guess would be at least 85% tanky frontline.

This kind of video shows how useless conditions are in zerging/blobbing compared to small scale.

Even without resistance, watch those condis in his bar disappear in seconds and have almost no impact on his health.

Anyway, I don’t think durability runes are the problem, I think boonshare and boon duration is the problem.

Nerf order should be:

1. Boon share – targeting Signet of Inspiration
2. Boon duration – targeting Naturalistic Resonance
3. Durability runes

Let’s NOT nerf everything in one go, we want some level of sustain when you engage so we don’t revert back to the super boring pirate ship meta.

TL;DR – Nerf in baby steps. See how it balances. If still bad, proceed to next nerf.

Bring back and rework the glamour mesmer, then see if there will be a boon problem.

alain.1659:

Bring back and rework the glamour mesmer, then see if there will be a boon problem.

This, a thousand times this. My favourite spec of any class throughout the game.

alain.1659:

Bring back and rework the glamour mesmer, then see if there will be a boon problem.

Counter to mesmers with boonshare, mesmers with boonstrip >.<

Reduce the cooldown on well of corruption to 20 seconds
Make sigil of nullification AoE like sigil of fire, make it 2 boons
Add boon-to-condition to rune of the trooper

I started using Durability runes on my Warrior recently. What’s messed up is that I feel like I’m doing the same damage with these runes that I do with Scholar runes. I know the reason for it, because I’m stacking Might a lot more easily, it’s just crazy how runes that are entirely based around defense are giving me roughly the same damage output as ones that are fully offensive.

To be fair, I’m also using Longbow + GS and consider myself quite good at Might stacking rotations even against other players. Still, the runes alone make a pretty significant difference. I’m usually hovering around 15 – 20 stacks of might during a fight which means even less harmful attacks like Bladetrail wind up doing 3 – 5k crits. I actually one shot a Thief just a few hours ago with an Arcing Arrow that crit him for 11k. Again, this isn’t all in the runes themselves but, with the Toughess + Vitality + Boon Duration it’s kind of silly how many stats can be stacked. I think a fair change would be either;

a) remove the 1second Resistance, remove the +125 Vitality and change the 6th bonus to +20% Boon Duration instead of +15%

or b) Change it to:
+25 Toughness
+5% Boon Duration
+50 Toughness
+10% Boon Duration
+100 Toughness
5% of Toughness is converted to Boon Duration

the only problem is boonshare mesmer

Honestly, I’d take this over the Pirate Ship meta any day of the week. At least it’s not a just a bunch of mexican stand offs that go no where for an excessive amount of time.

Nuzt.7894:

Honestly, I’d take this over the Pirate Ship meta any day of the week. At least it’s not a just a bunch of mexican stand offs that go no where for an excessive amount of time.

At least on pirate ship people had to watchout or they would die to enemy pick team. In this ridiculous meta it’s just two balls clashing which each other as if both were wearing full minstrel since no damage seen to occur.

I think I’m gonna do a bit of recording tonight to show what these runes are like in action on a solo/small scale.

Jeknar.6184:

Nuzt.7894:

Honestly, I’d take this over the Pirate Ship meta any day of the week. At least it’s not a just a bunch of mexican stand offs that go no where for an excessive amount of time.

At least on pirate ship people had to watchout or they would die to enemy pick team. In this ridiculous meta it’s just two balls clashing which each other as if both were wearing full minstrel since no damage seen to occur.

A proper comp takes care of this, we’ve been doing just fine at demolishing people, damage occurs on a regular basis. There are comps that can easily take down a boon blob, people need to stop being lazy and be a bit creative.

Is a pug going to kill a guild group, no, but that’s been the case 99% of the time. Pug vs Pug is not even remotely organized enough to make a judgment on what does or does not need to be nerfed.

Jerus.4350:

alain.1659:

Bring back and rework the glamour mesmer, then see if there will be a boon problem.

Counter to mesmers with boonshare, mesmers with boonstrip >.<

This is the best idea for so many reasons. Mainly for making the Mesmer choose between which role to play and help defining the class in large scale.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

This kind of video shows how useless conditions are in zerging/blobbing compared to small scale.

Even without resistance, watch those condis in his bar disappear in seconds and have almost no impact on his health.

Anyway, I don’t think durability runes are the problem, I think boonshare and boon duration is the problem.

Nerf order should be:

1. Boon share – targeting Signet of Inspiration
2. Boon duration – targeting Naturalistic Resonance
3. Durability runes

Let’s NOT nerf everything in one go, we want some level of sustain when you engage so we don’t revert back to the super boring pirate ship meta.

TL;DR – Nerf in baby steps. See how it balances. If still bad, proceed to next nerf.

It not required the Durability runes be removed. I think all that needs happen is the bonus boons off four only affect the person wearing the runes.

I think Durability should receive the same nerf that Pack runes did- increase the ICD from 20 to 30. That should be a pretty drastic cut to this problem. Durability runes are a problem rune, we know this, they removed them from spvp for a reason and now tons of large group players and roamers are using them- they are popular because they are incredibly powerful.

I’m confused. How do we have a power creep and a defense creep? This doesn’t equal out?

The proc from Resist runes arent a problem really. When you’re by yourself, those passive procs are so meaningless they may as well not even be there. It’s the Aoe part of that proc that needs to go. Make it only affect you and not also affect allies nearby. If everyone around you has passive resistence on a proc, of course its going to spread around and stack up. Just make it only effect 1 person, that would be the intelligent way to nerf them without making them completely useless in small scale fights.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

TL;DR – Nerf in baby steps. See how it balances. If still bad, proceed to next nerf.

I’ll second this.

Also they need to look at the food that also adds to the meta. Boon duration with damage reduction combined just adding fuel to the fire. Oddly the +damage food is conditional (while moving). Maybe the damage reduction food needs it’s own condition, namely while not moving.

On Boon duration I’m in favor of a hard cap on the total percentage.

If you have protection 33% less damage taken and say 10% damage reduction food a hit that would normall do 1000 damage first gets reduced to 666 by protection. Then it would get reduced by food by 10% to ~600 which means the total damage reduction is more like 40%.

Lets add RotGD for 50% DR ontop and you then only take 300 from those 1000 damage hits for a total DR of 70%.

If however you only had RotGD and protection then you would take 333 damage which gives you a DR of 66%

TLDR: Stack the highest numbers of DR as the more smaller numbers you stack the less effect you’ll get from them.

much more annoying is seeing ‘invuln, invuln invuln blocked blocked blocked’ when you try and hit the front line who can have a free go at killing everyone while taking zero damage for an extended period of time.

I’m going to second the baby steps above with Signet of Inspiration being top priority.

Conditions are a bigger problem than Resistance is. Resistance can be corrupted or stripped, its nearly impossible to clear conditions on the field right now with as many people are running full dire builds, which also makes them a LOT harder to kill. Also after they nurfed the lemongrass food that gave -40% condition duration, it really hurt groups who ran it to combat against conditions.

Conditions need reworked before resistance gets nurfed. I think many people can agree to this. Conditions should be effected by crit and crit damage and should scale with those and have their current damage halved or better. Dire should be as effective as Soldiers gear. Without crit and ferocity, soldiers gear is tanky but does little raw damage – Dire needs the same treatment.

As far as fear, chill, immobilize and cripple go, I think these should be considered crowd control skills and be cleared or unable to be put on if someone has Stability. They shouldn’t be effected by resistance or condition clears because they shouldn’t be considered conditions at all because they do no damage. They’re crowd control..

Once the conditions are reworked in the way I listed above, “Protection” should provide 33% damage reduction on raw damage as well as conditions then resistance would act like an “Endure Pain” skill, but for conditions. Some of the resistance duration should be nurfed at that time too.

—
Asphyxia [XT] – Fort Aspenwood Roamer
Twitch Stream – AsphyxiaXT
My Builds at Asphyxia.tv/builds

So I obviously had my math wrong but w/e. It’s still insane. As for the video, just wanted to clear up that it’s not my guild, just a video I found. Either way, it feels like WvW fight are becoming less about skill. The meta sucks

Mmm, RISE doesn’t use dwarf (at least not in this fight). I think Me might though (I sorta see the blue dwarf effect, but there are so many particle effects).

Furthermore, if you think durability runes are bad, runes of mercy actually prolong the fight even more in 15v15 scenarios, which is especially annoying in GvGs (instant reses). For that, all you can do is punt a bunch of times. But durability runes give more stats than mercy, making them preferred for normal WvW.

Honestly imo, the only thing that should give damage reduction is protection. It makes that boon have uniqueness (and making said abilities that apply it more valuable), that gets lost when they decided to throw in the food, rite of dwarf, and similar passive trait effects.

Finally, the main thing durability runes removed was the use of hold the line. The proc basically does the shout for you at reduce cool down. (Similar can be said for rune of the pack and warrior’s fury shout, For Great Justice, but Rev’s glint boons did that even more).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Hold_the_Line!%22

XTR.9604:

Also after they nurfed the lemongrass food that gave -40% condition duration, it really hurt groups who ran it to combat against conditions.

But they also nerfed Rare Veggie Pizza and Koi Cakes that gave +40% condi duration. The food nerf has already been balanced out.

So first (after hot) we had the Pirate Ship Meta 2.0 with revenant spamming CoR for over 25k.
This was counterd by the Dmg Reduktion meta where you could become 100% immun do normal dmg. ( yes this was possible)

This was counterd by the Condi Meta , what was the most Cancer/Aids meta we EVER had.

This was counterd by the 4th meta , the Boon Share meta. Which was the Holy Grail!
Finaly the kitten Cancer Meta was broken!

Thx to the Boon Share meta allmost nobody runs Condi Builds these days. Many Guilds/Publics dont even use Boon Share anymore and only use the Dur. Rune because its just a good rune.

Soooo you guys want to nerf Boon Share ? Something that was ONLY needed to kill the Cancer meta?

Do you guys REALLY want the cancer meta back?

I understand that you want to nerf the Dur. Rune but honestly i dont want to back to the cancer meta time… the worst months i had in this game.

“Go Condi or go Home” never again pls!

DanAlcedo.3281:

Thx to the Boon Share meta allmost nobody runs Condi Builds these days. Many Guilds/Publics dont even use Boon Share anymore and only use the Dur. Rune because its just a good rune.

I don’t know what game you playing but I still see a huge ammount of condi playershere on GW2.

Jeknar.6184:

DanAlcedo.3281:

Thx to the Boon Share meta allmost nobody runs Condi Builds these days. Many Guilds/Publics dont even use Boon Share anymore and only use the Dur. Rune because its just a good rune.

I don’t know what game you playing but I still see a huge ammount of condi playershere on GW2.

Roamer? Yes.
Guilds? Not so much. And why should they?
“Oh Guild xy runs heavy Condi ! Let me get my Boon Share Mesmer and Faceroll them!”

Publics? A few runs Condi but not many.

Another dumb thread started about durability runes. Why? Cause someone lost a fight to an organized group. God forbid.

In our Maguma match-up right now, we are running into quite a lot of boonstrip/condi groups. They are quite effective at countering boon share. If you get caught in their bomb, you’re dead. All those boons dissapear in less than a second. Also, some of our guilds have started to adopt a heavy boonstrip/condi meta.

Learn to counter.

Yeah I would figure if you’re having that much of an issue, and they’re that prevalent, you’d just run necros/reapers with huge trait emphasis towards boonstrip- since they have great condition application anyway, you’re killing two birds with one stone.

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah I would figure if you’re having that much of an issue, and they’re that prevalent, you’d just run necros/reapers with huge trait emphasis towards boonstrip- since they have great condition application anyway, you’re killing two birds with one stone.

Exactly, I don’t know what all of the fuss is about since its just another boon that can be corrupted. 2 boon corruption necros focusing the driver of the enemy group is generally enough to wipe a group because most groups become highly disorganized once their driver goes down anyway. Its really not as hard as people make it out to be to counter.

In other words: MOAR NECROS.

XTR.9604:

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah I would figure if you’re having that much of an issue, and they’re that prevalent, you’d just run necros/reapers with huge trait emphasis towards boonstrip- since they have great condition application anyway, you’re killing two birds with one stone.

Exactly, I don’t know what all of the fuss is about since its just another boon that can be corrupted. 2 boon corruption necros focusing the driver of the enemy group is generally enough to wipe a group because most groups become highly disorganized once their driver goes down anyway. Its really not as hard as people make it out to be to counter.

When commander die real fun and skilled playing start.

Durability should be like most other runes in the game and look something like this (not exactly but similar):

+25 Toughness
+35 Vitality
+50 Toughness
+65 Vitality
+100 Toughness
When struck below 50% health, gain protection and regeneration for 5 seconds and resistance for 1 second. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

With the stats above, it is still a solid rune choice. Boon Duration should be removed from the set.

Straegen.2938:

Durability should be like most other runes in the game and look something like this (not exactly but similar):

+25 Toughness
+35 Vitality
+50 Toughness
+65 Vitality
+100 Toughness
When struck below 50% health, gain protection and regeneration for 5 seconds and resistance for 1 second. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

With the stats above, it is still a solid rune choice. Boon Duration should be removed from the set.

If they removed the boon duration, everyone would complain that Leadership runes are OP because that is what people would switch to lol..

XTR.9604:

If they removed the boon duration, everyone would complain that Leadership runes are OP because that is what people would switch to lol..

Leadership stats are kitten tho and the aoe proc on it is on elite skill cast. They are nowhere as good as durability, hence why they aren’t used atm.

XTR.9604:

If they removed the boon duration, everyone would complain that Leadership runes are OP because that is what people would switch to lol..

Leadership doesn’t feed itself. Durability often procs 6s of protection and regen along with 2s of resistance every 20s. The other HUGE advantage of Durability is that it is spamming AoE defensive boons. More players running Durability the stronger the rune set becomes. It is the strongest rune set in the game right now.

That said, I really don’t think Resistance should be a boon if we are going to keep it in the game the way it is. It should be a state that simply cannot be extended or if it is going to stay a boon reduce condi damage not eliminate it.

Nerfing the mesmer ability to share boons would have a huge impact on raids.
Anet probably won’t nerf signet of inspiration for that reason.

given the popularity i’m seeing of durability runes, I’d expect the icd to be raised on the boons those runes put out.

Sadly this is anet balancing, so they will double or triple nerf, rather than take baby steps and see how it plays out.

Straegen.2938:

Durability should be like most other runes in the game and look something like this (not exactly but similar):

+25 Toughness
+35 Vitality
+50 Toughness
+65 Vitality
+100 Toughness
When struck below 50% health, gain protection and regeneration for 5 seconds and resistance for 1 second. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

With the stats above, it is still a solid rune choice. Boon Duration should be removed from the set.

There are plenty of runes that do not follow that format, just because you can’t figure out how to beat some players doesn’t mean Anet should start nerfing things into the ground. Here’s the thing, even if they did nerf them (which doesn’t need to happen) all those players would STILL be losing and looking for their next excuse. Next will be, “oh QQ all gear needs to be generic, nerf everything to soldier stats because the new stuff has different stats and that is clearly the reason I am losing”.

L2Boonstrip/focus damage on the right targets.

Nuzt.7894:

There are plenty of runes that do not follow that format, just because you can’t figure out how to beat some players doesn’t mean Anet should start nerfing things into the ground.

No other rune set gives this number of equivalent attribute points and has extended abilities. Exuberance is probably the closest to the attribute gain but it has no extended abilities. Pack is similar but the boons aren’t as potent.

20% boon duration is equivalent to 135 extra stat points. This rune set is giving around 435 stat points and AoE Regen, Prot, Resist on a low cooldown.

As I noted, that was just a suggestion of what they should look like not a final format. I can even see them doing this:

+25 Toughness
+10% Regen Duration
+50 Toughness
25% chance when struck to grant nearby allies Regen and Prot for 3s and 1s Resistance (30s)
+100 Toughness
+20% Regen Duration, +125 Vitality

That is still potent and better than Pack