Guild Wars 2

Now, I know very little about PvE or WvW for that matter. But, would it be possible to scale the hp pool of doors, walls, etc of keeps depending on the number of people attacking it similar to the way this happens in dynamic events? Would this help prevent zerging?

Would this even be a good idea?

/Discuss

No, this isn’t Taidha Covington.

If they just prevent player damage to gates (like walls), it would already be a great thing… Most towers I went all out defense and lost were because the enemy zerg decided to simply dps the gate down with no siege.

But having the HP of the walls adjusting constantly is no bueno… People would find a way to sploit this like putting 6 catapults with a 30 man zerg and then leaving only 6 people there to melt the wall with the catas (the wall will have lowered health as the enemy zerg is no longer near) and then running back to take the tower once the wall is down.

Jeknar.6184:

If they just prevent player damage to gates (like walls), it would already be a great thing… Most towers I went all out defense and lost were because the enemy zerg decided to simply dps the gate down with no siege.

But having the HP of the walls adjusting constantly is no bueno… People would find a way to sploit this like putting 6 catapults with a 30 man zerg and then leaving only 6 people there to melt the wall with the catas (the wall will have lowered health as the enemy zerg is no longer near) and then running back to take the tower once the wall is down.

Good point, something my lack of WvW experience overlooked.

/close thread.

Jeknar.6184:

If they just prevent player damage to gates (like walls), it would already be a great thing… Most towers I went all out defense and lost were because the enemy zerg decided to simply dps the gate down with no siege.

But having the HP of the walls adjusting constantly is no bueno… People would find a way to sploit this like putting 6 catapults with a 30 man zerg and then leaving only 6 people there to melt the wall with the catas (the wall will have lowered health as the enemy zerg is no longer near) and then running back to take the tower once the wall is down.

Pretty much anything can be exploited. What is better, to have structures with same HP all the time no matter how outnumbered one server is or at least have extra time (with higher HP) to fight them. With that possible exploit you mentioned, I find it a lot easier to kill six those guys using cata then a whole zerg guarding them. It it exactly same now, zerg builds catas, runs off to take another tower and comes to cap the first objective.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Pretty much anything can be exploited. What is better, to have structures with same HP all the time no matter how outnumbered one server is or at least have extra time (with higher HP) to fight them. With that possible exploit you mentioned, I find it a lot easier to kill six those guys using cata then a whole zerg guarding them. It it exactly same now, zerg builds catas, runs off to take another tower and comes to cap the first objective.

Like I said on my previous post, I don’t have problem in defending paper towers from 20-30 man zergs if I built pre-empitive siege on it (If i did not, I deserve to lose that tower for not sieging it)… So, for me, it doesn’t matter if the walls will have more or less HP because I usually don’t let the enemy zerg finish building their siege.

The problem for me is when the zerg decide: “Oh kitten it and dps that gate down” simply because they can keep bashing their faces on the gate and ressing each other (using superior numbers advantage to power ress the downed/dead) and there is absolutely nothing I can do about.

All towers, keeps/garrisons should have an upgrade that prevents player damage to doors. It’d give a much better reason to defend until this upgrade completes and prevents small groups from running around on a vacant map banging their heads against the door.

While were at it, why not have an upgrade that prevents all siege damage except trebs? The upgrade doesn’t need to be quick to get, but imagine now the importance of defending the structure if you can upgrade it to the point your enemies have to use trebs just to knock down the door.

Maybe even an upgrade that allows NPC’s inside to repair walls and doors if supply is available?

Simple solution:

Everything remains as it is now. The only change is – when the “Fortify” upgrade is
completed – gates become immune to player damage.

Advantages:

1) Very little effort required on the part of the developers/programmers to implement. Anything requiring too much time and effort on their part won’t ever see the light of day, no matter how great a suggestion it may seem.

2) It rewards players/servers who invest so deeply in defense that they manage to reach the “Fortify” stage. It provides a further incentive to upgrade that far. By tying it to the upgrade, it makes the defenders have to actively invest in their fortifications rather than passively do nothing.

3) It ups the stakes for attackers. If they don’t want to face a fortified structure where their weapon and utility skills can no longer damage the gate (thus nullifying the effectiveness of zerging), they will have to lay siege to opponent’s structures before they get upgraded.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Simple solution:

Everything remains as it is now. The only change is – when the “Fortify” upgrade is
completed – gates become immune to player damage.

Advantages:

1) Very little effort required on the part of the developers/programmers to implement. Anything requiring too much time and effort on their part won’t ever see the light of day, no matter how great a suggestion it may seem.

2) It rewards players/servers who invest so deeply in defense that they manage to reach the “Fortify” stage. It provides a further incentive to upgrade that far. By tying it to the upgrade, it makes the defenders have to actively invest in their fortifications rather than passively do nothing.

3) It ups the stakes for attackers. If they don’t want to face a fortified structure where their weapon and utility skills can no longer damage the gate (thus nullifying the effectiveness of zerging), they will have to lay siege to opponent’s structures before they get upgraded.

4) It prevent 1 player from being able to constantly contest a WP in a fortified structure. You can still do it with 2-3 if you build a ballista, but one can always go there and destroy it, thus forcing the people that want to keep contesting the wp to build another.

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Sreoom.3690:

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Because mesmers need to get inside the fort to port people in… We know some mesmers that don’t need to break doors for that, but that’s another story…

Well, what if you have 60 attackers attacking a tower which is fully seiged up with 700/700 supply and 60 defenders in it?

As it is, this already takes quite awhile to take. But when you factor in the dynamic scaling event, i don’t event want to think how long you have to seige it to take it.

And if the defending team just doesn’t want to fight a group that maybe 5-10 people larger than them, they’ll just hide in a tower and never come out.

Jeknar.6184:

Sreoom.3690:

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Because mesmers need to get inside the fort to port people in… We know some mesmers that don’t need to break doors for that, but that’s another story…

You missed my gist.

Think about it…if you were a King and had to build an impregnable fort, and you had access to magic users who could teleport people in and out of your Fort…why not set up a system where you always had a Guard (mesmer) on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leap down and port your people inside your fort?

Sreoom.3690:

Jeknar.6184:

Sreoom.3690:

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Because mesmers need to get inside the fort to port people in… We know some mesmers that don’t need to break doors for that, but that’s another story…

You missed my gist.

Think about it…if you were a King and had to build an impregnable fort, and you had access to magic users who could teleport people in and out of your Fort…why not set up a system where you always had a Guard (mesmer) on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leap down and port your people inside your fort?

What if you don’t own the fort? How will the Mesmer get in?

Sreoom.3690:

Jeknar.6184:

Sreoom.3690:

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Because mesmers need to get inside the fort to port people in… We know some mesmers that don’t need to break doors for that, but that’s another story…

You missed my gist.

Think about it…if you were a King and had to build an impregnable fort, and you had access to magic users who could teleport people in and out of your Fort…why not set up a system where you always had a Guard (mesmer) on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leap down and port your people inside your fort?

Just second here…. there are “doors” that let friendly players inside – they are the same color of your server and real easy to use. If you really don’t want to use the doors/colored portals then i guess you can wait around for a mesmer to show up and beg him to port you in. Or you can wait for the enemy to capture your keep, then bang your head against the door endlessly until it breaks and enter again if there was no friendly mesmer hiding inside to port you in.
If I were a king and had a fort, I’d still build doors but very politely ask a suspicious army if they plan on spending the night or invading my castle. That will help me decide if i want to open the door or not. :P

EDIT: to add to that, if I were a king and expect my mesmer’s who spend many, many years perfecting the art of magic to act as doors, I’m pretty sure they’d want a some proper compensation for their services. A grunt with a lever will probably be the more cost efficient solution. Thinking about it… I’m willing to patrol gar with my mesmer 12/7 for my server if they pay me 100g per day for the occasional port.

Jeknar.6184:

4) It prevent 1 player from being able to constantly contest a WP in a fortified structure. You can still do it with 2-3 if you build a ballista, but one can always go there and destroy it, thus forcing the people that want to keep contesting the wp to build another.

Good point; I didn’t think about that one. Now contesting a keep will take a little coordination, forethought, planning, and cooperation among at least 2 players (assuming they have the Supply Capacity mastery set to carry 15 supply each or benefit from the Guild Fortified Transporter buff) rather than towers and keeps being contested by a lone player.

thebeaRRRRR.8640:

And if the defending team just doesn’t want to fight a group that maybe 5-10 people larger than them, they’ll just hide in a tower and never come out.

Yes, that’s a possibility. However, then the attackers can go cap another fortification while the defenders turtle in the current one. Bunkering exclusively would then become counter-productive.

Also, if we change how points are earned in WvW, we can further disincentivize bunkering (as well as PvDoor). Here are some threads which speak to this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Proposal-How-to-fix-the-PPT-system/3941295

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/New-wvw-point-tick-system/3946757

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage/3462968

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/New-Point-system-idea-Objective-PPT-based

Sreoom.3690:

Jeknar.6184:

Sreoom.3690:

Really…in a fantasy world where mesmers can port…why do forts even have doors?

Because mesmers need to get inside the fort to port people in… We know some mesmers that don’t need to break doors for that, but that’s another story…

You missed my gist.

Think about it…if you were a King and had to build an impregnable fort, and you had access to magic users who could teleport people in and out of your Fort…why not set up a system where you always had a Guard (mesmer) on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leap down and port your people inside your fort?

Maybe the mesmer(s) comes down with the flu or is on vacation or asleep or having dinner or…

There’d still be a need for a door/gate. Especially since the mesmer portals are limited in how many people can be teleported through at a time and have a long recharge.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Sreoom.3690:

You missed my gist.

Think about it…if you were a King and had to build an impregnable fort, and you had access to magic users who could teleport people in and out of your Fort…why not set up a system where you always had a Guard (mesmer) on duty 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to leap down and port your people inside your fort?

Maybe the mesmer(s) comes down with the flu or is on vacation or asleep or having dinner or…

There’d still be a need for a door/gate. Especially since the mesmer portals are limited in how many people can be teleported through at a time and have a long recharge.

Spawn more Overlords Mesmers…

Gah. I’m not talking PCs…NPC’s.

In a world with Mesmers Garrisons and Forts in WvW should not have gates/doors.

Infract me please.