Guild Wars 2

I love WvWvW, its the greatest more strategic large scale pvp ever implemented, it mirrors an RTS with people. However, as noted in numerous other threads, there is an inherent flaw in the scoring system that allows servers to accrue large amounts of points not based on skill, tactics, strategy, teamwork, or anything competitive, but simply taking undefended objectives due to playing when others are no longer on.

These are American servers, they are advertised as such, the reality is non North American players are exploiting this designation to ruin any sense of parity or skill. Nobody will ever take their servers ELO rating seriously because it does not reflect that servers true skill in WvWvW due to this major issue.

I propose a lockout. WvWvW needs to have a lockout from 2am to 10 30 am est everyday. I am unsure if this will stop every abuse and exploitation of the current system but the reality is if you want American players to take WvWvW seriously this obstacle must be removed or WvWvW will cease as a competitive basis for most serious hardcore endgame guilds. Since they know all the hardwork and effort put forth carries as much wait as though who play at 4am when 95% of the server is in bed.

We are rewarding the wrong behavior and removing the competitive nature of it all. I urge people to continue posting. Servers ELO should be based on skill not based on timezone of players! Why make a ranking system like chess if you allow people to win the match while their opponent sleeps!

I don’t think the WvW part of the game was ever meant to be an e-sport. PvP maybe, but not WvW.

Furthermore, the two week games haven’t even started yet, its still in a pre-season if you will. Once those get started, in addition to the ranking system, I think WvW will even out.

based on what? if it does not work for 24hrs why the hell would it work for 2 whole weeks? Furthermore, read the wiki, they created an indepth rating system like they use for chess. Why would you create algorithms and factors for something you are saying is arbitrary, seems contradictory doesnt it?

I dont think servers were ever advertised as being NA only or anything along those lines. They only showed the location of server for those whose connections prevented them to play elsewhere. I know some servers feature players from multiple countries, like groups of players from Australia aswell as North American servers. Theres nothing stopping people from playing on an EU server for instance. Apparently alot of French Canadians are playing on an EU server giving them a massive advantage aswell so it goes both ways. Maybe switch to a server from a different time zone yourself.

I am not saying I do or do not agree that the problem you listed IS a problem… but lockout is the worst possible idea for a solution.

WvWvW should be 24/7

that is not a solution, If it is an american server or a EU server treat it as such. The purpose of such a designation is to notify the gaming community of appropriate servers to play on. Because a minority of people who choose to pick “American Servers” which it says at the top of world selection, should be allowed to ruin the game for a majority of the community?

why is a lockout the worst solution, substantiate your criticism please. Offer solutions!

Grimaldi.8532:

that is not a solution, If it is an american server or a EU server treat it as such. The purpose of such a designation is to notify the gaming community of appropriate servers to play on. Because a minority of people who choose to pick “American Servers” which it says at the top of world selection, should be allowed to ruin the game for a majority of the community?

A) Notify them is fine, ANet chose not to prevent them from doing it.
B) “minority” would imply that they don’t have a huge effect
C) my game hasn’t been ruined… but then I only play in the evenings and that comes with it’s own problems
D) WvWvW is not an e-Sport, and never will be.

Grimaldi.8532:

why is a lockout the worst solution, substantiate your criticism please. Offer solutions!

It is the worst solution because you’ve now arbitrarily limited the WvW map schedule to a certain time of the day. Not everyone plays at the same time, and why should WvW revolve around your schedule?

I can’t offer solutions because I’m not convinced this is a problem. Video evidence or something?

I totally get what youre saying Grim, but its not only overseas players who WvW in these hours. A lot of people work evening shifts at work, play until 4am/5am, then sleep until mid day. Even night shift workers on their days off end up playing through the night or on a morning when they get home from work.

Its unfair i agree, would be great to have more regional servers than the current system.

Psy.6153:

I totally get what youre saying Grim, but its not only overseas players who WvW in these hours. A lot of people work evening shifts at work, play until 4am/5am, then sleep until mid day. Even night shift workers on their days off end up playing through the night or on a morning when they get home from work.

Its unfair i agree, would be great to have more regional servers than the current system.

I like this idea. It would solve your “problem”, and also decrease que times for WvW. Make servers have smaller population caps, more regional, and thus decreased connectivity for those far outside of the region.

it is not arbitrary, anyone who plays MMOs knows, the most concurrent users are during prime EST hours from 6pm until 1am. Queue times on any full server will show you that. A problem, you have to be a troll kid. Do you not see the score differentials when you log on? People are capping the entire map when you wake up and getting 700 points every 5 minutes, creating 35-50k score gaps before you wake up. Evidence, its everyday if you arent blind.

As I said before, 2 week games will allow you to make up the difference. Ranking will also help to put these servers with large night time populations together.

Also, as I said before, WvW is not meant to be an e-sport. sPvP is.

But if you make a “lock-out” from 2 am to 10:30 am central us time, that means in europe (let’s say gmt +1) we will have a lock-out from 9 am to 5:30 pm, which in turn would mean that players from europe will be forced to play evening/nights if they want to play WvW, and that doesn’t make sence, does it?

ArenaNet has repeatedly said all have a right to play, anytime, anywhere. It is the “endless war”.
They “may” change the scoring, but nothing official has been announced.
Play where you want, have a great day.

WvW was never intended to be an e-sport. The push for e-sports in GW2 has been and always will be sPvP.

Also, a WvW lockout would be unfair to those avid WvW players who are night owls, who live in the “later” American time zones (like the Pacific Coast, Alaska and Hawaii, who are 3-6 hours behind the East Coast) or who do not reside in North America. Those players have as much of a right to play WvW as you do. As much as nightcapping can be frustrating when you’re against a server with a stronger night presence, a lockout is most certainly not the answer.

Grimaldi.8532:

its the greatest more strategic large scale pvp ever implemented,

It really isn’t. EVE and other games are a lot better in terms of “large scale” and “strategic” PvP, they have better incentivization schemes, more meaningful resources, obectives, better combat dynamics, more viable tactics, and overall superior complexity. What WvW is, however, is extremely accessible, which is a great thing to be.

WvW will never be an amazing example of strategic large scale PvP, but it can definitely be an example of fun large scale PvP that anyone can hop into and enjoy, which is really what they ought to be going for.

I honestly like the 24/7 element to WvW because it makes it more dynamic, and even realistic like I’d imagine in wars where soldiers, as part of a strategy, ambush the enemy during while they sleep to gain the upper hand.

It also makes WvW more accessible for players who live in different time zones and have different daily schedules. I always disliked in other MMOs where for a raid or whatever where you had to organize your life around it if you wanted to participate in it which is rather inflexible.

Having said that, I understand that it is somewhat unfair that the opponent can undo your team’s prior work in winning earlier, overnight, even at a fraction of your team’s effort.

As a possible solution have a day version of the WvW maps which starts at a certain time and ends at a specific time. Afterwards, the day version is “saved” and the night version of WvW maps will start where everyone starts from scratch in terms of progress, and when it ends, that version of WvW will be “saved”. Then, immediately, the prior day version of WvW is resumed, and so the cycle repeats.

Basically, have cycling maps and where the overall score takes into account of the progress made in both versions of the WvW maps.

Also, the title of the thread is misleading as it has little to do with e-sport, even indirectly!

tkalamba.2541:

I dont think servers were ever advertised as being NA only or anything along those lines. They only showed the location of server for those whose connections prevented them to play elsewhere. I know some servers feature players from multiple countries, like groups of players from Australia aswell as North American servers. Theres nothing stopping people from playing on an EU server for instance. Apparently alot of French Canadians are playing on an EU server giving them a massive advantage aswell so it goes both ways. Maybe switch to a server from a different time zone yourself.

he said north american servers were advertised as north american, and..they are.

No. Just recruit people for night-teams.

Agree to there being a problem for those that love w3 and whome also play competitively. Don’t agree with not having w3 available 24/7

Solution 1

• Partner eu and us servers off permanently.
• Have each servers w3 only open for 12.30 hours each day.
• Eu and us servers open and close at opposite times with 30 minute overlap either side (24/7) coverage
• once your regions w3 is closed down, you can join partners w3.
• Points would combine to give you buy in so wanting to help your partners.

Solution 2

• redesign maps so that there is 4 different maps and all are equal as in where no team has an advantage (remove borderland system)
• use one of many combinations of the following methods to even the numbers and improve more even number competition.

A) dynamic map availability

• Open and close maps to fill the needs of the people wanting to play w3 at a given time.
  (Always have one map available regardless of pop, rotate core map week to week)
• Use server 2 and 3 v server 1 (w3 pop) to decide if map opens.
• once map is opened, it stays open for 2 hour minimum.
• Obviously the system to do this would need to be heavily thought out and designed to not be exploitable and rotation of maps may be required to stop everyone moving to high pop matches for variety.

B) static map availability

• Using data gathered to date of AVERAGE w3 pops across all servers have a schedule of map closing down and starting. It may cause ques on some servers that have heavily congregated pops say in AUS but xfers would soon sort that problem out and create more balanced matches.

C) differing values of points per map

• Have 4 different maps in size
• map 1 has a max of 166 people per team (10% value)
• map 2 has a max of 100 people (20% value)
• map 3 has a max of 75 (50% value)
• map 4 has a max of 50 (100% value)
• weight the value of each map heavily so that larger pops have little effect and best play on core map is more important.

So many ways they could improve what I believe is close to the best large scale pvp ever.

I live in NA. I play 11pm-6am, 8am- whenever I go off.
So take a look and realize not EVERYONE plays by the same time frame you do.
Your bed time is not mine, mine is not yours.
Should I cry that I want a lock out from 12pm EST until 11pm EST? No.

I play GW2 for the WvW. I don’t play it for anything else, and your suggestion of adding a lock out from the times you selected would be like saying to arena net:
Hey don’t let people play during the times Im not online, they arent allowed to have any fun.

I think it’s unfair that you are only thinking about a select group of people, instead of everyone. I myself and VERY glad Arena net already shot down the idea of having wvw shut down to xx hours a day back when people were spamming about night capping.

I saw the title and had to double check I wasn’t in the sPvP sub forums.

Look this is unfair. Some players are in different time zones and play at different times, it would lose Anet customers.

But what is also unfair, is having just about every non T1-T2 match prone to being decided by mostly PVP Door, or hugely imbalanced odds.

The type of solution is simple. Points scaling. If one server has 150 people on a map, and the other only has 25, then you scale points tick value down based on whatever percentage of choice that seems appropriate. It doesn’t have to be a 1:1 ratio, not having a player should never be as good as having one. But they have to close the gap to some degree, because it just ridiculous that points can be run at 3 to 4 times the rate in off peak hours as they can in peak time. In peak time even if one server is greatly more skilled than their opponent they cannot offset the off peak points merely because its so hard to dominate a whole map when both sides have full populations.

What that means is any North American player playing at normal NA primetimes is substantially less valuable than a player who plays in off peak.

And if we have an entire server whose main population is off peak, and their own weak time is NA primetime, then the system will work equally to favor them, and have them lose less points when it is their low period.

This is one reason people are asking for rewards, progression and all sorts of other diversions to make WvW more interesting, because the week long scoreboard battle is too often compromised by this issue. Sure you can try to band-aid fix it in that way to keep people interested only during the time they are actually on. But it’s a shame for everyone to stop caring about the actual battle for the week due to the imbalance of off peak populations.

What about two 12 hour wvw matches per day with 2 seperate scoring systems running simultaneously? You could be t2 am and t5 pm.

I play in those hours that you want a lockout.

I am also in Ohio.

I play on a NA server.

Screw you.

Besides, as you can see with CreativeAnarchy, Americans do play during that time. Log on during off-peak time, I dare you, all the players playing aren’t just Oceanic or possibly European, there is a whole lot of NA players.

Cloud.7613:

Besides, as you can see with CreativeAnarchy, Americans do play during that time. Log on during off-peak time, I dare you, all the players playing aren’t just Oceanic or possibly European, there is a whole lot of NA players.

Agreed, because I live in Virginia, I play over nights. Not during “NA prime” yet I live in NA.

Many don’t seem to understand Oceanics aren’t the only players who play during NA off times.

Transfer to 24/7 WvW server. There’s no lapse in competition, so the point tally doesn’t become biased.

I think Anet should still consider creating a lockout system, and creating 3 new NA and 3 new EU servers to their own seperate ladders, just to shut up people that don’t understand the concept of 24 / 7 combat. Of course, this would occur after everything else in WvW is fixed, improved, and GW2’s population is large enough to support it. Even then though, it’d still be a waste of resources in the eyes of the vast majority of players.

Also Anet, do a mass advertising campaign in Asia / Oceania, it is obvious that there’s a lack of players from this 3rd of the world WvW coverage wise. Additionally increase the rate of the game’s translation for the Asian languages.

The closest thing WvW will get to E-Sports is someone sifting through WvW videos once a month and making a highlight reel.

I work tilll 11pm almost every day so i play at night till 6am. If u are here to cry, go to a server that has a bigger oceanic presence than yours. Stop punishing others.

So this means for players like me who have jobs and tend not to get off till midnight that I should be able to only play for two hours? That I should then join some oceanic server but then what happens if I have a day off I would be in the off zone there. A lockout would solve nothing but kitten alot of people off. It is not my fault that my play times are based off of being a night time manager at a pharmacy. That I should be penalized for my play hours. With the amount of abuse being done in WvW it is far off from being considered a e sport if it will ever be. You should be more focused on bug fixes and free transfers then the night crew. Change your hours of play to early morning instead. Since your asking others to change theirs why not change yours to play in the off hours. Also this is world vs world vs world war. How many wars have a break cause people might want to sleep?