Guild Wars 2

Most of the time (something like 90% of the time), my server (blue) gets double teamed in Eternal Battlegrounds. Some say the terrain encourages both red and green to attack blue, while discouraging red and green from attacking each other. Others say terrain isn’t the issue and instead, the two servers (green and red) are just trying to 2v1.

How does your EB look? Is it mostly green and red focusing on blue lands? or can it be assumed that the two servers we are facing indeed are intentionally trying to 2v1 us?

I posted an attachment to show what I ALWAYS (no joke) see whenever I check EB map.

I’m kinda curious about this myself, I notice Kaineng gets put into that situation alot (we’re typically blue), although a part of that may be night cappers around when I get on

RED = 3rd place server. So they have objectives which are closer to each other, and given the advantage of the overwatch keep, which has a clear advantage to capture it’s nearby towers with somewhat ease(veloda, and orgewatch), heck even SM is an easy cap for them with the trebs reaching from overlook to SM outter wall.

BLUE = 2nd place server. their structures are reasonable close, but with no true advantage towards their near by towers. Durios has a minor SM treb position, but nothing to great. Heck all the other near by towers offer the same, but durios seems to be the tower of choice..

GREEN = 1st place server. has no real advantage towards SM, also has the most easily attackable lowlands keep. 2 watergates, main door which is placed far far from the inner, so you can’t really use the siege on inner to protect the outer, and basiclly all the walls can be easily walked to and knocked down. Thus making green zone the hardiest to defend.

I think its both a matter of map advantages and 2v1.

Red keep can treb SM, Green keep can mortar all 4 surrounding towers, Blue keep really has no advantage. Also its significantly easier to go through Hylek and Ogre than Dredge, there are definite advantages.

Couple that with the natural 2v1 of Green fighting Blue to perserve ranking and Red fighting Blue to move up and the Blue server is just in an awful position.

Peetee.9406:

I think its both a matter of map advantages and 2v1.

Red keep can treb SM, Green keep can mortar all 4 surrounding towers, Blue keep really has no advantage. Also its significantly easier to go through Hylek and Ogre than Dredge, there are definite advantages.

Couple that with the natural 2v1 of Green fighting Blue to perserve ranking and Red fighting Blue to move up and the Blue server is just in an awful position.

I was thinking that too.. both the swamp (frog zone) and the hills (ogre zone) feel much more inviting than the cave tunnels (dredge zone).

Nah, this is not in relation to just Tier 2.

Look at the past few weeks in Tier 1, whomever is blue, whether it be JQ or SBI always finishes last that week.

BAEK.8561:

Most of the time (something like 90% of the time), my server (blue) gets double teamed in Eternal Battlegrounds. Some say the terrain encourages both red and green to attack blue, while discouraging red and green from attacking each other. Others say terrain isn’t the issue and instead, the two servers (green and red) are just trying to 2v1.

How does your EB look? Is it mostly green and red focusing on blue lands? or can it be assumed that the two servers we are facing indeed are intentionally trying to 2v1 us?

I posted an attachment to show what I ALWAYS (no joke) see whenever I check EB map.

Without knowing which matchup are we talking about that screenshot tells me this:

Blue does not have enough players to defend anything but the keep. Green and red are just taking out the easy points and at the moment with blues low player amount just holding their own territory. Maybe there’s no more drama than that

testpig.5018:

RED = 3rd place server. So they have objectives which are closer to each other, and given the advantage of the overwatch keep, which has a clear advantage to capture it’s nearby towers with somewhat ease(veloda, and orgewatch), heck even SM is an easy cap for them with the trebs reaching from overlook to SM outter wall.

BLUE = 2nd place server. their structures are reasonable close, but with no true advantage towards their near by towers. Durios has a minor SM treb position, but nothing to great. Heck all the other near by towers offer the same, but durios seems to be the tower of choice..

GREEN = 1st place server. has no real advantage towards SM, also has the most easily attackable lowlands keep. 2 watergates, main door which is placed far far from the inner, so you can’t really use the siege on inner to protect the outer, and basiclly all the walls can be easily walked to and knocked down. Thus making green zone the hardiest to defend.

Actually Klovan and Wildcreek can both treb SM mate. And Klovan’s trebs can be placed where a cliff ledge protects them from SM trebs, thus making headlong attacks/ballista necessary for SM defense.

Green is actually the easiest to defend.

dats right. and blue is the hardest.

Peetee.9406:

Couple that with the natural 2v1 of Green fighting Blue to perserve ranking and Red fighting Blue to move up and the Blue server is just in an awful position.

This is the most important part.

there are other variables confounding the issue making it impossible to say based on observation such as the OP suggests whether the map is to blame or not.

testpig.5018:

RED = 3rd place server. So they have objectives which are closer to each other, and given the advantage of the overwatch keep, which has a clear advantage to capture it’s nearby towers with somewhat ease(veloda, and orgewatch), heck even SM is an easy cap for them with the trebs reaching from overlook to SM outter wall.

BLUE = 2nd place server. their structures are reasonable close, but with no true advantage towards their near by towers. Durios has a minor SM treb position, but nothing to great. Heck all the other near by towers offer the same, but durios seems to be the tower of choice..

GREEN = 1st place server. has no real advantage towards SM, also has the most easily attackable lowlands keep. 2 watergates, main door which is placed far far from the inner, so you can’t really use the siege on inner to protect the outer, and basiclly all the walls can be easily walked to and knocked down. Thus making green zone the hardiest to defend.

While this was the stated intention, there are a few things to note.

Green:
+ Easiest navigation between natural points. No natural landmarks blocking troop movement.
+ Both forward towers can hit SM (although the positioning required for the East tower makes it impractical).
+/- Only side with two natural supplies that can’t be bottleneck defensed.

Red:
+ Overlook can hit SM, and can not be hit back if built correctly.
+ Overlook siege can cover all four other natural red towers.
+/- East supply can be turned into a massive murder-hole by any team
- West supply is the farthest supply from any hard point

Blue:
+ Hardest natural keep to ‘ninja’ due to design.
+/- Blue keep is difficult to navigate around. Attackers are largely forced to use trebs to breach.
- Both forward towers can be hit from SM. QL however can not hit back.
- Hardest to defend due to geography blocking quick troop response.
- Only keep that can not protect both forward towers.

Keep in mind, most of these don’t matter during high level play hours when you have guilds capable of intelligent operations online. These only become a factor during generic PUG times when everything devolves into zerg/treb wars.

Blue also has the natural disadvantage of the champion overgrown grub, which has a distracting effect. <sigh>“Grubs up! Let’s all focus on PvE!”</sigh>

green is the easiest.

Jerrifer’s is a stronghold. Its outer wall is not breakable. any attack needs to be on the gate, or from greens own side.
This then also gives a massive tower/cliff which seige can be built on to defend kloven, lowlands, jerrifers and even golanta.

Golanta is the easiest camp to attack however. with no choke point at all.
Speldan can be protected via dredge tunnel. umbridge orges.

Attacking quentin/danlion from green however, is a death trap. The one weakness of green.

I always found green to be the easiest to defend, red second…blue is definitely the worst (even though their keep is harder to take, their towers are the easiest to take)

Ekove.4586:

I always found green to be the easiest to defend, red second…blue is definitely the worst (even though their keep is harder to take, their towers are the easiest to take)

Bang on.

In the month or so since I’ve been active in WvW I’ve never seen Wildcreek, Klovan, Aldon’s Ledge, Jerrifer’s Slough or the green keep (the ones that start off green) in anyone’s hands other than green. Not even once and not even for seconds. Never. I’ve seen a single supply camp in that corner change hands rarely and only seen both Golanta and Hooligan’s blue or red at the same time exactly once. I’ve seen every other objective on the map change hands several times (well, red server keep only once). Often times several different hands in the same 24 hour period. That’s not definitive evidence. But it sure points to a strong correlation. It’s easier to build up defenses on those keeps and It’s easy to attack, attack, attack when you rarely have to worry about defending. So the strong just get stronger.

A-net should definitely randomize the EB starting positions and colors of each server in a matchup at the beginning of the match on Friday nights. It would prevent stagnation in matchups that don’t change for weeks on end and test the theory that that starting position gives an inherent advantage.

Or the weakest server gets Green, etc.

Blue and red both have spots where they can treb SM while being out of range from SM trebs. Green does have esaier fort to defend but only aldons can be actively defend from keep the others rore or less stand alone. Blue can defend bravost and langors from their keep. Red cam protect voloka and ogre somewhat from their keep. The can also treb anz from their keep. And mendons is the easiest fort for red to take.

I think the problem isn’t with the map, it’s just that 2nd place (ie Blue) gets targeted more.

Green (1st) isn’t threaten by Red (3rd), so they attack Blue (2nd).
Red (3rd) isn’t a match for Green (1st), so they attack Blue (2nd).

I really wish they would modify the upcoming reward changes to reward one first place and two equal loser places. It would encourage people to focus on the leading server, so the right people would get double teamed.

green may appear to be the easiest to defend because the “winning” server is always on it. which means they may have the most population they need to be able to maintain it’s properties

Blue has the grub advantage, distracting enemy zergs.

Dwok Immortalus.2763:

Blue:
+ Hardest natural keep to ‘ninja’ due to design.
+/- Blue keep is difficult to navigate around. Attackers are largely forced to use trebs to breach.
- Both forward towers can be hit from SM. QL however can not hit back.
- Hardest to defend due to geography blocking quick troop response.
- Only keep that can not protect both forward towers.

Actually it can, but the spot isn’t perfect – rangers or elementals can destroy it.

Zid.4196:

Blue has the grub advantage, distracting enemy zergs.

Sarcasm at its finest ( I hope ) but seriously, I’ve seen SMs, Towers, hell, keeps, lost because of damn PvE grub parties. Ever seen 5+ golems stolen from keep ( meant for SM ) because of grub?!

Zid.4196:

Blue has the grub advantage, distracting enemy zergs.

Nowayyy… :o

i wish.. no matter what map sbi is on.. at almost same time everyday, sos and jq attack sbi from both sides, and dont touch each other. its so unbelievably organized, there has to be actual communication…. been like that for 3 weeks, all maps.

You know that red have the Tree Spirit Champion by Speldan, that also give a chest just like Grub,
And that supposedly have one around their area as well?

Just saying, there are 3 Champs on that map that all gives a chest with badges

maloki.3527:

You know that red have the Tree Spirit Champion by Speldan, that also give a chest just like Grub,
And that supposedly have one around their area as well?

Just saying, there are 3 Champs on that map that all gives a chest with badges

Let’s be honest, no one even bothers going out of their way to Speldan, which people have already stated is the most out of the way supply depot on the map. And you yourself already confirmed what is true for a lot of people… what / who / where is that Champ for 1st place?! It’s out of the way enough that hardly anyone knows what it is, let alone where it is and actually kill it.

Grub on the other hand is stupidly close to keep, is seen and passed whenever people travel to Durios and Umber for defense and has the nagging map notification when you’re at keep.

Kirbyprime.2645:

maloki.3527:

You know that red have the Tree Spirit Champion by Speldan, that also give a chest just like Grub,
And that supposedly have one around their area as well?

Just saying, there are 3 Champs on that map that all gives a chest with badges

Let’s be honest, no one even bothers going out of their way to Speldan, which people have already stated is the most out of the way supply depot on the map. And you yourself already confirmed what is true for a lot of people… what / who / where is that Champ for 1st place?! It’s out of the way enough that hardly anyone knows what it is, let alone where it is and actually kill it.

Grub on the other hand is stupidly close to keep, is seen and passed whenever people travel to Durios and Umber for defense and has the nagging map notification when you’re at keep.

You can also use the Speldon’s Supervisor to help kill the tree spirit, so you don’t need a big group to do it like you do for the Grub.

testpig.5018:

GREEN = 1st place server. has no real advantage towards SM, also has the most easily attackable lowlands keep. 2 watergates, main door which is placed far far from the inner, so you can’t really use the siege on inner to protect the outer, and basiclly all the walls can be easily walked to and knocked down. Thus making green zone the hardiest to defend.

Green actually can treb Stonemist, blue is the only side that cant. Green keep is like a fortress and impossible to take plus all 4 towers are in treb range of garrison making Green the most defensive side on the map.

With the exception of Ogrewatch, Red sides towers are too far north for any quick in and attack. Blue sides QL and DG are just sitting ducks for any side to take, both supply camps are so easy to travel too vs Rouges for example making them quick point targets.

IMO Green > Red > Blue and the positions of servers in the tier should be reversed.

1st = Blue
2nd = Red
3rd = Green

isnt the grub for first place the misquto event? something has to come of it if anyone actually completes it lol

Green is simply designed better for defense in almost all areas in EBG. Naturally blue and red are going to go after the weakest targetable tower, which is always going to be something other than green.

Personally I feel the higher tier server should be red and the lower tier server should be green. IE, swap green and red so the weaker server has a better chance of keeping some points.

I imagine it would help immensely towards leveling out the end scores.

Green is easily best.

Rhyis.7058:

Green is simply designed better for defense in almost all areas in EBG. Naturally blue and red are going to go after the weakest targetable tower, which is always going to be something other than green.

Personally I feel the higher tier server should be red and the lower tier server should be green. IE, swap green and red so the weaker server has a better chance of keeping some points.

I imagine it would help immensely towards leveling out the end scores.

2nd place would remain Blue week in and week out with that system. A far more simple solution is just to rotate areas each week.

IMO, Green Side easily has the best central keep.
However, Blue has the easiest time setting up ambushing (lots of LOS blocking / blind corners, underground routes, etc.)
And Red has choked off pathways through it’s territory with only a very limited amount of approaches to any objective.

To summarize, Blue definitely doesn’t have the static advantages in thier side of the map, but with a proactive and highly mobile team in play, the Blue side is by far the easiest side of the map if you’re defending. You just need a lot of server wide coordination to make it work (as with any defense).

Edit: The key to dismantling Green is Jennifer’s Slough.
Once you have it, treb the hell out of Green Keep and laugh as Green can’t land counter-artillery on your trebs. (Kinda like the big hill SW of Red Overlook).