Guild Wars 2

Its pretty clear that there is sufficient support to keep the desert maps in some form.

A quarterly rotation will likely result in a large portion of players sitting out depending on which maps are being employed.

Allowing different borderlands to use different maps during the same match may lead to balance problems.

Making EBG a desert map solves a most problems.
It will maintain balance.
It will avoid midweek map switches (which will suck)
It will provide roamers/havoc a large space to play.
It will provide blobbers 3 maps to blob.

Maybe HoT got it backwards.

Blobs need more maps because they hit the map cap quicker and the large groups make increased map caps a problem due to lag.

Making EBG for roamers/havoc should allow EBG a higher map cap since they will(should) be spread out.

It will make the Airship, Cloaking Waters tactics useless but otherwise a good idea….

….You do realize the majority of roamers are on the alpine bl right?

But yeah, I have no problem with rotating ebg and the kitten map. It would need a lot more changes but I honestly think it would take less changes to make it suitable for an ebg replacement than it would to make it bl worthy.

Loosmaster.8263:

It will make the Airship, Cloaking Waters tactics useless but otherwise a good idea….

Good riddance

Lol tell that to the guilds that put the effort into getting them. Also, the center of the DBL needs to be dealt with.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Its pretty clear that there is sufficient support to keep the desert maps in some form.

A quarterly rotation will likely result in a large portion of players sitting out depending on which maps are being employed.

Allowing different borderlands to use different maps during the same match may lead to balance problems.

Making EBG a desert map solves a most problems.
It will maintain balance.
It will avoid midweek map switches (which will suck)
It will provide roamers/havoc a large space to play.
It will provide blobbers 3 maps to blob.

Maybe HoT got it backwards.

Blobs need more maps because they hit the map cap quicker and the large groups make increased map caps a problem due to lag.

Making EBG for roamers/havoc should allow EBG a higher map cap since they will(should) be spread out.

The devs stated that EB is the most popular map so they are not going to change it.

WvW maps are designed for mass/blob/zerg combat 1st. Players can still roam and havok easily even with masses of players on the maps. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong and just embellishing.

Also, players are not going to willingly “spread out”. The devs tried to force “spread out” gameplay with DBL, but we know how well that worked out.

Oy this again.

Why would you replace the most popular map?

Desert is a home borderland map, it cannot be used as an ebg map because of the number of structures available, it’s not equal so it doesn’t maintain balance. EBG works as a middle ground map because it gives equal access to all 3 sides.

Wish they had never went with the stupid concept of 3 borderlands 1 middle map and designed all maps like ebg.

Loosmaster.8263:

Lol tell that to the guilds that put the effort into getting them. Also, the center of the DBL needs to be dealt with.

Turn it into a giant Colosseum arena.

When I saw reveal, I thought it was going to exchanged with EBG. I never thought it was going to be a borderland. :p

Xenesis.6389:

Oy this again.

Why would you replace the most popular map?

Desert is a home borderland map, it cannot be used as an ebg map because of the number of structures available, it’s not equal so it doesn’t maintain balance. EBG works as a middle ground map because it gives equal access to all 3 sides.

Wish they had never went with the stupid concept of 3 borderlands 1 middle map and designed all maps like ebg.

Loosmaster.8263:

Lol tell that to the guilds that put the effort into getting them. Also, the center of the DBL needs to be dealt with.

Turn it into a giant Colosseum arena.

The map needs to be reworked anyway and it has plenty of room to throw in more towers and camps. The whole middle of the map is currently a waste of space, so it’s not like they’d have to cut out anything important to add a sm style keep there.

An absolutely horrible change. EBG is sacred!

Jim Hunter.6821:

The map needs to be reworked anyway and it has plenty of room to throw in more towers and camps. The whole middle of the map is currently a waste of space, so it’s not like they’d have to cut out anything important to add a sm style keep there.

That would require moving a lot of stuff around, adding 2 towers 1 camp, moving the keeps, might as well make a new map. To me anything that involves having to move any structures on the map is a waste of development time, that should go to a new map with a better concept.

Xenesis.6389:

….anything that involves having to move any structures on the map is a waste of development time, that should go to a new map with a better concept.

Then I hope you voted for it’s destruction because that’s only part of what needs changing for it to be a suitable bl map too.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Xenesis.6389:

….anything that involves having to move any structures on the map is a waste of development time, that should go to a new map with a better concept.

Then I hope you voted for it’s destruction because that’s only part of what needs changing for it to be a suitable bl map too.

The towers need to be made useful, but that doesn’t absolutely require them to be moved, unless you want to turn it into an alpine clone, then they might as well just re-skin alpine into a desert.

You guys think too extreme for that map, it’s either move structures around or scrap it. To me changes don’t need to be that drastic, there are other options available, Anet just needs to come up with the right ones to implement.

P.S They could do a quick change since the desert bl doesn’t have bloodlust, they could tack it on to the towers instead of having ruins, holding 3 of 4 towers will give your side the bloodlust.

Or even have it separate from the borderland bloodlust and instead have each tower grant bonus stats. Holding 1 tower gives you healing power/precision, holding 2 towers also gives you toughness/vitality, holding a 3rd tower will give you power/condition damage, holding all 4 gives you warscore points for finishers.

Bunch of stuff you could do for those towers other than having to move them to be siege bunkers for a keep.

I bet the same people that claim Alpine is stale will look at this horrified and go “dont touch our EB!”, lol.

Due to the popularity of EBG its probably a keeper map. That and I don’t see a lot of people showing up here and saying that EBG is a terrible map, replace it. It also continues to be the only map with consistent full queues, during ABL or DBL times.

We do need mixed maps versus having some people play other things since their options are limited. I don’t think anyone wants to see players go.

I guess the question would be, is EBG alpine popular because of its alpine design or simply because it is a balanced 3 way fight with more objectives?

TorquedSoul.8097:

I guess the question would be, is EBG alpine popular because of its alpine design or simply because it is a balanced 3 way fight with more objectives?

Both.

Jim Hunter.6821:

….You do realize the majority of roamers are on the alpine bl right?

But yeah, I have no problem with rotating ebg and the kitten map. It would need a lot more changes but I honestly think it would take less changes to make it suitable for an ebg replacement than it would to make it bl worthy.

Well there are only Alpine BL’s at the moment so where else would the roamers be.

I would take a Re-Skinned EBG with Desert theme, but having DBL rotate with EBG seems like a bad idea IMO.

Greetings from Veloka, we don’t want no flithy lich lord tyvm!

LOL…..bet we’re going to see a lot more goofy idea threads in the next few days, as the dbl haters take out their frustrations realizing that dbl is not going anywhere due to the mysterious majority of dbl haters(that so many of them claimed existed) that obviously never showed up for the poll.

I need to get more popcorn for the upcoming show.

Fwiw, I am not crazy about dbls, although I had started getting used to them. The dbls still need lots of tweaks, which I think we will see. But I AM all for more variety in wvw, and keeping the dbls around helps provide more variety, imo.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Jim Hunter.6821:

….You do realize the majority of roamers are on the alpine bl right?

But yeah, I have no problem with rotating ebg and the kitten map. It would need a lot more changes but I honestly think it would take less changes to make it suitable for an ebg replacement than it would to make it bl worthy.

Well there are only Alpine BL’s at the moment so where else would the roamers be.

The question is where were they when there was only the dbl? Because they sure as hell weren’t roaming that bl.

…and no, I don’t count you kittenes that capped empty kitten and ran from fights to be roamers.

I think it would be best if Anet had a handful of decently balanced unique maps in a rotation. I would prefer this of the current, EBL + 3 identical imbalanced maps.
Each unique map doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced, as long as the total balance is even.

For any given map composition, they can fine-tune the balance by adjusting points for specific keeps and towers.

Jim Hunter.6821:

TorquedSoul.8097:

Jim Hunter.6821:

….You do realize the majority of roamers are on the alpine bl right?

But yeah, I have no problem with rotating ebg and the kitten map. It would need a lot more changes but I honestly think it would take less changes to make it suitable for an ebg replacement than it would to make it bl worthy.

Well there are only Alpine BL’s at the moment so where else would the roamers be.

The question is where were they when there was only the dbl? Because they sure as hell weren’t roaming that bl.

…and no, I don’t count you kittenes that capped empty kitten and ran from fights to be roamers.

You claim there were absolutely zero roamers on the basis that you don’t like the roamers that were on DBL? This is beyond absurd. At some point you are going to have to face the truth that if a majority of players really did hate DBL then the poll would reflect that and it would soon be removed from the game.

OriOri.8724:

You claim there were absolutely zero roamers on the basis that you don’t like the roamers that were on DBL? This is beyond absurd. At some point you are going to have to face the truth that if a majority of players really did hate DBL then the poll would reflect that and it would soon be removed from the game.

The density of small groups 1-15 on Desert was nothing compared to how Alpine looks now.

On my server which is higher tier now than pre-link, there was a reason why EB queues pre-link with Desert could top at 120, while they are now at maybe 20… if any queue at all in the middle of primetime. There are much much more people spread out on all 3 borders. Border commanders are having fun again, compared to the literal drought of players on Desert.

And before you ask, I rarely if ever played on EB even when Desert was in effect. I played on Desert every day for hours. I learned every square centimeter of it, every siege spot and every little nook and cranny. I loved the big change that made it so much more pleasurable to roam on. Yet Alpine is still the vastly superior and more fun WvW map.

The current poll reflect an idealized version of Desert that people want to see become reality together with the illusion that the implementation will be mixed borders before that poll is even seen.

Anet should give DBL to the server with the highest glicko rating in each match.

Then not allow anyone from that server to go to the other two alpine borderlands until after DBL is queued.

Make the alpine border a EBG map.
That will keep balance too.

Wait, so where the heck is the logic in this request OP. You want to take the most popular map and replace it with the most controversial and divisive one??? That has to be one of the worst idea’s I’ve read in a long time.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Its pretty clear that there is sufficient support to keep the desert maps in some form.

A quarterly rotation will likely result in a large portion of players sitting out depending on which maps are being employed.

Allowing different borderlands to use different maps during the same match may lead to balance problems.

So long as there is a rotation of the maps I don’t see a problem in terms of balance. Its not as though the mode is balanced anyway.

DeWolfe.2174:

Wait, so where the heck is the logic in this request OP. You want to take the most popular map and replace it with the most controversial and divisive one??? That has to be one of the worst idea’s I’ve read in a long time.

Its beginning to look as DBL isn’t as controversial as some have made it out to be.

And I doubt the reason that EBG is popular is strictly the result of its alpine design. Its a 3 way map and has a more balanced objective layout than the BL’s.

TorquedSoul.8097:

DeWolfe.2174:

Wait, so where the heck is the logic in this request OP. You want to take the most popular map and replace it with the most controversial and divisive one??? That has to be one of the worst idea’s I’ve read in a long time.

Its beginning to look as DBL isn’t as controversial as some have made it out to be.

And I doubt the reason that EBG is popular is strictly the result of its alpine design. Its a 3 way map and has a more balanced objective layout than the BL’s.

I personally voted to not remove DBL, despite wanting it removed from the game. The reason being is how they word these Polls. As much as i would like to never see DBL again, i also don’t want “Alpine Borderlands will be the only Borderlands map”.

I would love more WvW maps in the future, I just don’t want DBL.

Are you crazy? EBG is the best WvW map. If you remove it the WvW population would easily drop by another 30%.

Are people here serious about bringing back DBL in rotations with Alpine BL maps. When DBL were in, those maps were ghost towns. It’s almost a guarantee that Alpine Bl’s will be full and DBL map/s will be ghost towns. Why not leave Alpine and EBG maps as is; make DBL a free 2 play map and replace EOTM maps with DBL?

TorquedSoul.8097:

DeWolfe.2174:

Wait, so where the heck is the logic in this request OP. You want to take the most popular map and replace it with the most controversial and divisive one??? That has to be one of the worst idea’s I’ve read in a long time.

Its beginning to look as DBL isn’t as controversial as some have made it out to be.

And I doubt the reason that EBG is popular is strictly the result of its alpine design. Its a 3 way map and has a more balanced objective layout than the BL’s.

I have to agree with this. I think dbls would be dynamite if they just cleared out the pve crap in the middle section, and opened it up for open field battles. When they first implemented dbls, I got the definite impression that the designers were still in HoT mode, with the cliffs and varying levels. That was a mistake, imo.

I hope they continue to tweak dbls and make them playable for more wvw play styles. Would love to see a havoc/roamers sort of edge to the map, with the middle part accommodating larger open field fights for those that like that style. Would be a win/win for all, imo.

Malediktus.9250:

Are you crazy? EBG is the best WvW map. If you remove it the WvW population would easily drop by another 30%.

Where did you get the idea that EBG was being removed?

Elite Warrior.5389:

Are people here serious about bringing back DBL in rotations with Alpine BL maps. When DBL were in, those maps were ghost towns. It’s almost a guarantee that Alpine Bl’s will be full and DBL map/s will be ghost towns. Why not leave Alpine and EBG maps as is; make DBL a free 2 play map and replace EOTM maps with DBL?

There is going to be a redo of the mixed bls poll after this current poll. Hopefully we’ll get a 2abl/1dbl sort of setup.

Teon.5168:

Malediktus.9250:

Are you crazy? EBG is the best WvW map. If you remove it the WvW population would easily drop by another 30%.

Where did you get the idea that EBG was being removed?

Even though Torqued didn’t outright say, in his OP he said EB was to be a desert map. I took it as replace EB with a DBL map. Not sure if he just means reskin it with a Desert theme but that won’t bring balance he mentioned.

Edit: It’s also in the thread title.

Ah ok….OP’s suggestion…..thought that poster had gotten that from a dev. My bad.

I actually like the EBG map, and would stop playing it if DBL was EBG. I also believe in equality and everyone should have access to the maps they enjoy all the time. My personal preference is to not play dbl… but I do not want it removed, I would want dbl accessible for those who enjoy it.

My personal preference has always been to keep ebg (battleground as in the name), keep an abl (borderland as in the name)), keep a dbl (borderland as in the name) … and rotate the third map with the BL’s – and keeping the option open to develop another map some year in the future that can be transitioned in.

That ship has sailed.

If before HoT, they decided to make it a 3 sided map, it could have worked. But as is, it’s a bit too late as it would require so many fundamental changes that you’re might as well just start thinking of a new map.

ArchonWing.9480:

That ship has sailed.

If before HoT, they decided to make it a 3 sided map, it could have worked. But as is, it’s a bit too late as it would require so many fundamental changes that you’re might as well just start thinking of a new map.

All that is required to get EBG turned into a desert is some persistent forum zerging. It is now a proven method.

Desert EBG NOW!

c’mon everybody … zerg more threads.