Guild Wars 2

Idk why im writting this here but im curious as to what Anet is thinking when matching up EOTM server’s. It seems very unfair that most of the servers in OG are the worlds that won their last matchup, I mean if the strongest server’s are all in 1 color, then once they r ahead enuff in WvW, many guilds will start popping up in EOTM, and they are all in OG because those r the winning severs. While BL and FR will never have a guilds in their side because their server’s cant afford to go to EOTM. Aside from guild’s, OG overall has more pug numbers due to the same issue.

I mean having number’s is 1 thing, but whats FR or BL going to do when OG has numbers and on top of that, 2-3 guilds full of 80’s running around farming low level zergs?

If they were grouped by anything than server color there’s a decent chance I’d be playing side by side with the people my server is killing this week… Which would not be good.

That’s what they were thinking when they made the match ups…. Otherwise it’s EoTM it’s not really… Important ….how balanced the matchups are.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be grouped by color’s, but there is no reason why all the winning servers should be in the same color. Also even tho EOTM is not important for competitive purposes, is still a very well made map, much better then EB or the BL’s and it could be much more fun if OG wasn’t always heavily outnumbering the other colors.

I dont often go to eotm, but when I do, yea 95% of the time OG has a giant blob and outnumbers everyone by at least 3 or 4 to 1. Last time I was in there my side had 20 people, OG had a blob, bl had about 20-30. I have to question the overflow placement used here.

Probably overflow for eotm works like this:

Assume total number of people wanting to play eotm
400 greens
200 blues
100 red

EOTM capacity: 150 people (random number pulled out of thin air), hence one fills up the green side first to max supported team size, then spins up additional eotm’s to contain the green players.

It ends up with ~4 EOTM’s, now get the rest of blues and red players, and divide them equally by the number of eotm’s spun up. You end up with a matchup looking like this:

100 greens
50 blues
25 reds

GL,HF!

Also in addition to EOTM slowly dying cuz of OG’s number’s, lets not forget that since OG is always winning, green server’s always have supply in their borderlands citadel. Now this might not seem like a big deal, but trust me, it plays out to be an additional advantage in many cases, and the blue/red server’s that are the one’s usually starving out of supply, cant get anything from EOTM while the server with most map control also have infinite supply in their bl.

cough EOTM was put in to relieve boredom.

IMHO: Since few servers queue maps for wvw now, and lower population in wvw in general, eotm should be closed off, or have 1 “mega server type” for it, not multiple. At least not while the wvw numbers are lacking on most servers. (Maybe have a join EOTM option if a server has wvw maps queued.) That way some of the lower tiered servers might just possible get more into wvw’ing with them.

WvW is not just for lvl 80’s, and people should stop telling others to go to eotm to level. Many leveled prior to EOTM in wvw. (It just takes smarter gameplay, and less zerging to level, and avoid dying.)

EOTM was created to give players a new map to play with, since every wvw map is exactly the same except for EB and they are all still poorly made compare to the EOTM map. Player’s like me who spend most, if not all of my GW2 time in WvW often go to EOTM for some new gameplay.

When EOTM came out, Anet got amazing feedback because many people though, this was the best upgrade this game had since launch. Even for roamer’s and players looking for casual 1v1’s or 2v2’s this was a great map for that as well.

Also player’s in t1/t2 server’s might not care as much cuz their world’s always have people in it, but in lower server’s when at times, there is barely 3-5 people across all 4 WvW maps, there is really nothing to do but to play PvP or EOTM.

Again this is not about WvW or leveling up, is a game and there is no denying that EOTM is a fun map that many people would hate to see it die when there are actually many easy ways to re-establish balance to it.

The thing is EOTM has no way to be properly balanced, due to how it was designed. People who are complaining now about x having more numbers then y, while it may be true, it is the same as how eotm was set prior to a decline in population. (It just wasn’t noticed as much.)

With such a decline in population eotm should lower the amount of players who can enter eotm. Though further limiting the amount of players in eotm, and not having more then 1 eotm match going “mega server wise” would mean queue’s for some and not others. (I say "mega server wise, due to there being different eotm maps players can end up on, when joining, even if they are the same color.)

Which would lead to the same exact current issues of numbers vs lack of numbers.

When gw2 came out rank 1-9 servers could queue wvw maps, now sadly you are lucky to get more then 1 queue on wvw in ranks 1-3. It does show a large decline for wvw, and you can see that trickling into EOTM as well.

In addition you now have the “Mega servers” which make there no need to bother joining 1 server over another for anything other than EOTM/WvW. (Which that is not even clearly stated by ANet for a new player who doesn’t come to the forums/site/or knows little about to game until after the fact.)

Not to mention at this point, EOTM is used as a Ktrain map, to quickly level alts, gain wxp, and to avoid WvW. As far as the map being better then the wvw maps, that is personal opinion per player.

I would like to see eotm balanced as well, though I would like to also see wvw balanced, and since wvw effects eotm. (And vice versa.)

The issue is players though, not Anet. Yes players can balance a server’s matchup, and some could trickle down the tiers and balance all tiers and all sevrers but most “players” go where they want to have fun at. ANet shouldn’t really cap a server and close off new accounts from joining it due to population anymore, because if you go by population then most show as being “high” while in wvw some servers have few, and are in imbalanced matches.

In all honesty server population should be determined by and only by the amount of accounts which enter into WvW for more then just daily’s. Then maybe people could try to balance out servers better. (Provided players do that.)

@iNSoMaNiAc.2741,
What are the many easy ways to re-establish EOTM and balance it without hurting GW2 in other aspects?

Well first of all, like i said before, the main reason why EOTM is currently out of balance, is because all the world’s that won their previous match up are green, and unless we are talking about t1/t2 the green server’s are usually ahead enuff to not care as much about going into WvW, and therefor end up in EOTM, many times entire guild’s go to EOTM for training, and they are mostly in OG because the guild’s in red/blue server cant really afford to slack off and go to EOTM. As a result you often see 2-3 guild’s running around in the green side.

This can be easily solve by making color’s completely random in WvW, instead of the current red = underdog/ blue=second place/ green=first place. By making color’s a random thing, you ensure that not all the server’s who are struggling go to red and not all the server that are far ahead of their opponents go to green. I understand that color’s are probably used by the game to create the match’s of the following week, but any simple program can replace this to a different loop that does not include color’s and instead, assign them randomly.

Another simple solution but less likely to happen, would be to completely separate EOTM from WvW and give players a random color when they enter the map, pretty much how the current PvP works.

iNSoMaNiAc.2741:

Well first of all, like i said before, the main reason why EOTM is currently out of balance, is because all the world’s that won their previous match up are green, and unless we are talking about t1/t2 the green server’s are usually ahead enuff to not care as much about going into WvW, and therefor end up in EOTM, many times entire guild’s go to EOTM for training, and they are mostly in OG because the guild’s in red/blue server cant really afford to slack off and go to EOTM. As a result you often see 2-3 guild’s running around in the green side.

This can be easily solve by making color’s completely random in WvW, instead of the current red = underdog/ blue=second place/ green=first place. By making color’s a random thing, you ensure that not all the server’s who are struggling go to red and not all the server that are far ahead of their opponents go to green. I understand that color’s are probably used by the game to create the match’s of the following week, but any simple program can replace this to a different loop that does not include color’s and instead, assign them randomly.

Another simple solution but less likely to happen, would be to completely separate EOTM from WvW and give players a random color when they enter the map, pretty much how the current PvP works.

So then the suggestions are randomize wvw colors, or make wvw/eotm separate.

So colors could be randomized (further than the +/- 100 glicko rating.)
The main issue I see with that is you would still end up in eotm with population imbalances based off of who decides they want to play eotm or not per minute/per day, ect… (The colors actually go by the glicko rating, which is determined by a servers performance per match(s) and determines the following matchings for wvw.)

Also EBG would have to be reworked to change the map design which allows red to have certain advantages overtop blue, or green, and vice versa for the other colors currently. (If keeping eotm, and wvw intertwined.)

If separating eotm/wvw, wxp could be completely removed from eotm, and so could the supply deliveries to wvw, so nothing from the 2 interacts with one another.

Though that is going on the assumption of red/blue colors being outnumbered 100% of the time, compared to green, which is not always the case. (In wvw some servers are evenly matched, and their colors change fairly often, also a server which has a high pop could be red one week, and gain enough glicko to become green the following week.)

Did you have more ideas or just the 2?
The 2 suggestions so far would require re-working of the mechanics of WvW entirely, or reworking of EOTM. Both of which sound “easy” however require a ton of work, and do not nail the actual issue of imbalanced matches for EOTM and provide actual balanced EOTM’s.

The true issue of EOTM is how many players are on each side verse one another.
That is something I am interested in hearing suggestions on, because unless it involves “capping” a eotm’s color of participants, I think in the long run there isn’t much which can actually be done to fix it.

Well maybe capping yet allowing people to sign into it a mercenary’s and make it to mercenary’s are distributed on sides to keep all within 5players of one another?

I win when i am red, blue or green. Color doesn’t really matter. Just kill enemies every time.

I don’t really think any specific color has a big advantage enough for the map to have to go under rework, also every advantage red has can also be used against them fairly easy.

Also about the supply delivery, I’m not assuming that green is going to win 100% of the time, the fact that they win 95% of the time is good enough to have them remove the supply given to WvW.

It is true that even if the color’s were randomize, there could still be uneven matches, but they wont be nearly as uneven as they are right now.

Junkpile.7439:

I win when i am red, blue or green. Color doesn’t really matter. Just kill enemies every time.

o lewk at dat server. ofc u do. ofc ofc ofc. ahuehuehuehuehuehue.

Junkpile.7439:

I win when i am red, blue or green. Color doesn’t really matter. Just kill enemies every time.

That exactly is the problem, SFR attracted not only WvW wtj, but in the meantime even more EotM wtj (personally know several of them). Whenever I am in as not the same color as SFR I’ve outmanned buf 100% of the time.

But as usual ANet isn’t able to make a game mode that isn’t at least 3:1 imbalanced.
A pity otherwise EotM and WvW would be fun, so the game is dead. Hopeless as not-SFR side, boring as SFR-side.

SFR is red since this match up and I was in a shard that had full blobs on each side.
We didnt lose our keep for the 2 hours i have been in it while OG was ticking less than 20 most of the time and we were farming them at spawn.

I think it has more to do with commanders and their choices (flip objectives or go for fights) which color wins a match up.

EASY FIX TO THE POPULATION IMBALANCE

Make it so that your WvW color is not necessarily your EotM color but that your color is still different from the other servers in your WvW matchup. The reason why your WvW color is your EotM color right now is because Anet doesn’t want people against each other in WvW to be on the same team in EoTM. HOWEVER, what a lot of people don’t realize is that it’s possible to have servers not necessarily be the same color in EoTM as they are in WvW but still have no scenario in which a two servers from the same WvW matchup be the same color in EoTM.

(Using NA for example which has 24 servers so 8 WvW matchups):

When EotM is down for a few minutes as matches reset, do this algorithm:

Take 8 groups (1-8) which represent each WvW matchup. Each group will contain 3 elements which are the servers in the WvW matchup. For example, the first group would be JQ/TC/BG since they are T1.

Iterate over all 8 groups doing this to one group at a time:

Shuffle the order of the current group so that it’s random which server is where within the group. Assign green as the EotM color for the first server, blue to the second server, and red to the third server in this group.

For example, JQ/TC/BG is currently green/blue/red in WvW but could end up as being re-ordered to TC/BG/JQ being green/blue/red for one EotM match and then being re-ordered to BG/JQ/TC for the following EotM match etc.

Now all 8 groups have a color randomly assigned to each server in the group and no two servers in the same group are the same color. Make this their EotM color. When EotM resets, do this again etc. Therefore before every EotM match, you don’t know what color you or the other servers will be but you know that you won’t be paired with anyone who is currently against you in WvW.

1,4,7,10,13,16,19,22 vs. 2,5,8,11,14,17,20,23 vs. 3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24
totals: 92 vs. 100 vs. 108
not as different as you might think.
also: weaker wvw servers, 90% of the time, are weaker because they have fewer players. EoTM has so many players and the maps are all roughly evenly distributed that it’s all roughly fair fights. when it’s 150 players vs. 150 players vs. 150 players, the individual player skills don’t mean a whole lot.

Dayra.7405:

But as usual ANet isn’t able to make a game mode that isn’t at least 3:1 imbalanced.

I think the bandwagon blob is planned… as in €22,50 to transfer for fast and easy farming of players who still refuse to pay.

Unfortunately, it makes any decent match-up impossible. Either you’re woefully outnumbered and constantly interrupted by some tool commander who thinks it’s funny to ruin other players’ enjoyment of the game… or you end up playing with embarrassingly unskilled players who’ve never needed to learn the game because they always outnumber their opponents 3:1. There’s no fun there… on either side.

Grym nailed it.

Last week EU-EotM was quite funny nice fight’s and at least green and red quite balanced,
but this week with SFR green it will be as bad as mostly. (Even worser than usual, as we are green as well, and running in the majority blob is even worser than plying the outmanned underdog.)

i asked one of the anet staff to implement auto balance but he said no, he likes the imbalance in eotm.

so there you have it

Dayra.7405:

Last week EU-EotM was quite funny nice fight’s and at least green and red quite balanced,
but this week with SFR green it will be as bad as mostly. (Even worser than usual, as we are green as well, and running in the majority blob is even worser than plying the outmanned underdog.)

Im from SFR and I have to say that it was quite fun to play red again after a long while.
This weekend, blue decided to defend their corner with their whole blob for a atch up, (we wiped couple of times trying to get their keep) and it was a welcome change from the usual karma train/loot bag farm we usually do.

Dasenthal.6520:

If they were grouped by anything than server color there’s a decent chance I’d be playing side by side with the people my server is killing this week… Which would not be good.

That’s what they were thinking when they made the match ups…. Otherwise it’s EoTM it’s not really… Important ….how balanced the matchups are.

Easy fix: don’t allow redundancy within tier, mix cross tier; i.e. dont put all the first seeds into OG, because that could really screw up the map balance. Oh wait, it already IS screwing up the map balance…

As someone who EoTMs quite frequently, it really doesn’t matter that much.

Sure OG has a tendency to have the largest zerg running around, but that isn’t always the case. And even so, you typically go hours without any major encounter, and if there is an encounter, it’s over relatively quick and everyone continues on with what they are doing.

If one side was so OP that both other colors weren’t even able to leave their spawn points, then sure I’d agree this is a problem, but considering you can be any of the colors and still run hours of train without issue, I’m more leaning more towards it being a non-issue.

One of the reasons wvw doesn’t queue so much anymore is a lot of those extra people are now in EoTM as it’s easier and more rewarding the WvW is generally. The WvW population is now spread across 5 maps rather than 4 and while this 5th map isn’t contributing directly to any home worlds score, it removes a lot of Blue/Red players from maps that they desperately need.
Flipping towers/keeps in EoTM gives a champ loot bag from 61+ and they are rarely defended, rarely sieged up and theres usually 20-30 other people to take it with.
In WvW, finding the numbers (out of guild raid times) attacking undefended, non-upgraded towers/keeps takes longer and for the same reward. Why bother WvW at all?

Draknar.5748:

As someone who EoTMs quite frequently, it really doesn’t matter that much.

Sure OG has a tendency to have the largest zerg running around, but that isn’t always the case. And even so, you typically go hours without any major encounter, and if there is an encounter, it’s over relatively quick and everyone continues on with what they are doing.

If one side was so OP that both other colors weren’t even able to leave their spawn points, then sure I’d agree this is a problem, but considering you can be any of the colors and still run hours of train without issue, I’m more leaning more towards it being a non-issue.

Not really anymore, the outnumbered buff is always up and we were getting totalled in FR every few minutes tonight so people gave up playing. We basically could barely leave our spawn point, so ya it’s a big issue. I’m on Tarnished Coast.

Uhm, you’re digging up a year old post again.

Not sure about Eotm relating to real wvw much other than a basic feel for some of the mechanics. I stopped going in there ages ago due to basically trash talk most of the time and really a complete lack of real organization other than blobbing. There is no strategy in there other than to cap, let people cap so you can recap and so on. At best it’s worse than a dead BL. imo

I dunno, people seemed to be playing for real during my first week. Green took blue’s keep, locking them into spawn, and blue took green’s in revenge. There were actual fights and a danger of getting squished by enemy zergs. Of course it was much more spread out and less contested in general, but not literally some kind of “you leave me alone, I’ll leave you alone” farmville.