Guild Wars 2

Hi All,

Background:
I am seeing WvW maps empty and players favouring EotM.
It has become a constant karma/experience train following a single Zerg commander farming point to point. The idea of defending items/areas is all gone.
It has become a mindless karma farm which seems extremely repetitive and boring (It’s fast become the replacement Queensdale champ farm).

The Question:
I am pretty certain that EoTM was not designed to be a loot chain area and an overflow for WvW areas?
- Feel free to discuss and raise how to make it more interesting.

Proposal:
Increase experience (karma, loot- add possibility of a free champ box?, xp) for defend events.
Decrease experience gained for attack event.
Increase rewards in WvW – to be higher than in EoTM (or Decrease rewards overall in EoTM: hopefully to encourage more people into the main WvW areas).

Why?
Stop the constant xp/karma trains which are going on to introduce better strategy into these maps better encouraging battles between groups of individuals on the maps.

Many Thanks,

So people have learned cooperation is a good thing and you don’t like that?

I believe that EOTM was a test for their megaserver and way to alleviate the queue problem in T1 servers. As for it being a karma train, better there than on our BLs.

TBH I’ve had better fights and seen more group play in EotM than I (sometimes) saw in normal WvW.

True, the XP,Karma and WXP gain is quite insane there but at the same time it is only possible because all sides do not want to fight and just run around capping stuff. There is no reward for defending anything or for owning most of the objectives on the map so why even bother. If anyone is setting up a defense it is only for fun of shooting mindless zerg with ACs.

Still I enjoy EotM greately… so far…

I wonder how long it will take for the OP to realise he wont get any updates.
WvW hasnt had updates for 2 years, why would you expect updates for something that’s only been around for a couple months?

By the way anybody already done EotM achs? I still miss reactors and special objectives. 1545 special objectives capped and 1020 reactors, but i haven’t played that much. Too bad completing this ultimate PvP goal doesn’t give any cool title like legendary karma trainer.

OK, so I do EotM commanding now and again. My style has always been to find enemy zergs and bust them when they’re trying to take our stuff.

For my own zerg’s part, this is generally met by a few negative responses (people asking why we aren’t just flipping towers), but they in turn are addressed by other members of the group who are happy to have fights. So the will to fight enemy players is definitely there for some players; it’s just in the hands of the commander.

In terms of WXP, wiping a zerg of 60 will give you a decent WXP return as long as you space it out. I tend to alternate between wiping the two colours, and also tend to alternate between a wipe, and taking an objective.

Most of the time, enemy zergs do not expect you to attack them at all, and can be caught totally unaware while attacking towers or keep gates. Unlike normal WvW, fights in EotM are very much over in one push; getting the jump on an enemy zerg almost always guarantees that you will win.

So with this in mind, EotM is actually fairly ripe for commanders who want to fight the enemy groups. You get a huge number of loot bags from doing this, as well as good WXP, but obviously less karma than just flipping objectives. Commanders who cut their teeth in normal WvW should find it very easy to track enemy groups, as most zergs in EotM do not bother to hide swords or the like.

So yeah, while EotM is currently karma-farm prime, once other commanders realise how good the pickings are for farming zergs, I would imagine you’ll start to see a lot more of this style of play.

Currently EotM is incredibly unbalanced that fighting is actually pointless anyway. Overgrowth has been steamrolling for more then a month now (this is the 5th week), playing as Frostreach we are pretty much always outmanned. Not exegerating. The winnign servers all get green as colour, so they get all the extra people. Not to mention the super-stacked server is always green aswell.

I play a fair amount of EtoM and in over a month i have not seen a single map get won by anyone but Green. Green does bad, relatively speaking to usual, when they score less then blue and red combined.
And i only rarely see the outmanned icon disapear (usually towards the end of the match as people leave)

So there is no point fighting. Only one side will ever take that win. Only rarely, when fighting into a sieged up choke or something, does green get wiped. But thats still fairly rare.
And then all there is left is to karma-train.

Also, instead of nerfing the rewards for EotM we should buff the rewards for regular WvW.

I still contend that they goofed up and made the map queue larger than intended, I wish I could find the dev post about it, it said something about queue’s being very small because the npc’s/objectives were designed for small groups (5-20)

The only other thing I can think of is to close EotM for servers that don’t have a queue
but someone will cry because they don’t want to play wvw only eotm.

or force people to leave EotM when a WvW map is ready.

I’m in favor of cutting the EotM map capacity in half or more

I don’t need a commander to set up a superior AC and farm bags from Overgrowth all day… Problably would be better if I had a partner or two, as 2-3 Superior ACs would meltdown the zerg even before they realize they are under AC fire.

Being on Frostreach for that is awesome because the Kodan keep have some nasty spots to place an AC an farm the people bashing their faces on the gate. And also, Frostreach seens to be always outmanned which mean extra wxp+magic find.

Please leave EotM as it is, so i can keep laughing on how pathetic the people that only want to karma train are. (Also keep getting these phat lewts)

@OP:

Wrong forum. EotM is a PvE map. This is the WvW forum.

style.6173:

@OP:

Wrong forum. EotM is a PvE map. This is the WvW forum.

Weird i killed lot’s of enemies in mist after i got bored dodging arrow carts in borderlands.

I would rather have that karma train mentality in Edge of the mists then in EBG.

Junkpile.7439:

style.6173:

@OP:

Wrong forum. EotM is a PvE map. This is the WvW forum.

Weird i killed lot’s of enemies in mist after i got bored dodging arrow carts in borderlands.

Me too. Those NPCs are fun.

The biggest improvement would be to stop giving the 1st place WvW matchups the GREEN side of the map.

Mentally handicapped idea to give the strongest teams the side with the largest advantage. If you win your bracket……you should be playing as BLUE in EotM.

……bad developers are bad developers.

Need to fix green = win rest is fine

Leave it as is for the karma trainers. Give wvw the real updates.

Julie Yann.5379:

As for it being a karma train, better there than on our BLs.

Exactly this!!

I don’t know what server you play on, but I can usually see the opposite: EOTM being empty and everyone in normal WvW. People mostly play it while queuing for EB.

EOTM is a karma train map because of one and only one reason: it is not ranked. PPT don’t matter there so there is no point to defend. It’s even better to let the enemy capture your keep so you can get WXP and badges for recapping it!

EOTM as a ranked map would even be better than for example EB. The distances between points are bigger, so it would often be impossible for a zerg to run in time to defend a tower. It would force huge blobs to split in order to cover a map.

and just wanted to add, I’ve noticed the decline in EotM defending objectives, and people call it karma train, it is actually a poor excuse for “I don’t know how to be a good commander so let’s avoid the enemies”

Karma is easy to get anywhere in the game, and I know alot of us have a nice stash of millions of karma points….so to karma train when you can’t spend it fast enough cannot be the reason people are in EotM.

so yea I blame bad commanders for turning EotM into what it is today.

it takes a quick minute to defend a keep in EotM and it is a helluva lot more enjoyable then fighting a door. (which you can go back to doing after a quick defend)

I’m sure some commanders that know how to actually play WvW will come back and help the puglets remember the good ol days

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

I wonder how long it will take for the OP to realise he wont get any updates.
WvW hasnt had updates for 2 years, why would you expect updates for something that’s only been around for a couple months?

-breakout events
-Ruins
-Bloodlust
-WXP/abilities
-EOTM

all updates to WvW that have come in the last 15 months

Would prefer it was as i tooth it would be, you end up in edge of the mist if your in queue for a map until is your turn to enter map.

Karmatrain is merely a term, it doesnt need to be about karma. Its just when you would run around the map avoiding the pvp part to just flip objectives. Then the other servers do it aswell and you just go around the flipping back and forth for the reward of capping.

In EotM its more about the WXP, which you get far more of trucking around EotM then you do in WvW. Ofcourse the loot is also a bit better, each reactor/tower/keep/special objective even spawns an extra world chest with mats and badges.
But is the problem that EotM rewards to much? Or, is it just WvW that rewards to poorly?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

-breakout events
-Ruins
-Bloodlust
-WXP/abilities
-EOTM

all updates to WvW that have come in the last 15 months

Someone who lists EOTM as a WvW update obviously does not know what they are talking about :P

Breakouts – For low pop servers/off peak hours because peopel complained a lot. Doesnt do much for WvW if you ask me

Ruins – sPvP area which people avoid, apart from roamers. Some players actually want the lake back.

Bllodlust – Part of ruins and then they nerfed it making it less appealing to get.

WXP – Quality of life stuff so I dont count it as a proper update.

so roamers don’t count, low pop servers don’t count, new map doesn’t count, new abilities don’t count…

basically nothing counts as an update because it doesn’t serve you personally.

It doesnt serve the majority of WvW players, so no.

Do I hear commanders telling roamers to get the ruins – No
Do I hear commanders tell people to run all breakouts – No
Do I hear commanders tell people to go to EOTM – No
Do I hear commanders telling which abilities to spend their WXP on – A Little, but most dont care as long as at least 2 people have ram mastery.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It doesnt serve the majority of WvW players, so no.

BEEP BEPP T1 ELITIST DETECTED!

Julie Yann.5379:

I believe that EOTM was a test for their megaserver and way to alleviate the queue problem in T1 servers. As for it being a karma train, better there than on our BLs.

This^^
And please, leave it alone. Not only are there epic zerg fights there, but it’s actually one of the best ways in this game to make money/get loot.
This is one place that I hope avoids the nerf hammer.

I think EoTM was designed to be a loot chain area so I disagree with OP.

The map is terrible for roamers, and discourages defense despite the well designed defensive structures. Loot/Karma train seems to be the intended purpose.

EOTM does award much more badges and Empyrual fragments than WvW, and probably a lot more dragonite too the way it is played. Badges in chests probably could be looked at for a nerf.

The real problem EOTM has for WvW is that instead of being an overflow area for overstaked servers waiting in queues….. Is that it’s become a refugee area for players stuck on the wrong side of blowout matches… And the resulting blowouts in the regular wvw are even worse.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

-breakout events
-Ruins
-Bloodlust
-WXP/abilities
-EOTM

all updates to WvW that have come in the last 15 months

Someone who lists EOTM as a WvW update obviously does not know what they are talking about :P

Breakouts – For low pop servers/off peak hours because peopel complained a lot. Doesnt do much for WvW if you ask me

Ruins – sPvP area which people avoid, apart from roamers. Some players actually want the lake back.

Bllodlust – Part of ruins and then they nerfed it making it less appealing to get.

WXP – Quality of life stuff so I dont count it as a proper update.

Roamers and low-population servers players are as much WvW players as anyone.

They’ve done a fair number of work on WvW. They’ve worked on queues, fixed culling, the party thing, continually increased rewards in WvW in response to feedback. Some exploits into keeps were fixed too. There were some balance decisions based solely on WvW as well, like the portal cap and retaliation nerf so people who say they never think about WvW balance are wrong (never’s a pretty strong word).

A lotta the things some people ask for I wouldn’t want. The game mode doesn’t need maps at all (Edge of the Mist is best as a waiting room). Coverage is more or less okay. The game just needs to not reward people for transferrin to higher tier servers (and with their new approach to server transfer fees, that might get better).

WvW is better than it was at launch and honestly there isn’t much I’d change with it at this point (if anything, I’d remove the WXP guard buffs).

styx.7294:

..Coverage is more or less okay…

Wait, what?

I kinda agree with most of your post, but for me, coverage is the major problem in wvw.

join all the land masses and remove the auto cannons. problems solved

Completely disagree, this is currently the only place where you can farm decent karma without feeling like you are grinding.

While adding equal rewards for defend events might be good but that can easily be exploited unless some new algorithm is added.

Overall, Eotm is a great sucess and the listed improvements you made will not benefit enough for Anet to waste their time and effort on it.

I would rather like to see the following new things:
1. New Fractals added.
2. New elite areas such as UW, Fow, Urgoz, Deep, Doa
3. New maps
4. New world bosses
5. New mobs – Hydras and some other extremely cool creatures
6. New legendaries
7. Precursor quests
8. Revamp of the Zhaitan fight
9. Continuation of living story – What exactly happened to Zhaitan?
Did he die? where is his body?
10. New dragon
11. Many many more

I can go on with a list of 100+ such items that need to be fixed, added to the game.

I see no problems with EotM, outside of a few instances where you have people from T1 trying to PPT an overflow map of it. News flash people, overflow maps of EotM don’t contribute anything to the main BLs, don’t even try to PPT an overflow of EotM. You’re better off ktraining it.

Jeknar.6184:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

It doesnt serve the majority of WvW players, so no.

BEEP BEPP T1 ELITIST DETECTED!

Im on a small server and i feel like the wvw is far from being WvW, its just like a kidish playground to avoid pve(mobs and trolls).

Jeknar.6184:

styx.7294:

..Coverage is more or less okay…

Wait, what?

I kinda agree with most of your post, but for me, coverage is the major problem in wvw.

That’s just my opinion.

I just haven’t ever heard a good solution to it and I think I’d rather leave things as they are as opposed to do any of the things people have suggested.

I think it’s the big problem if someone’s timezone is utterly empty though.