Guild Wars 2

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

The beginning of EotM marked the end of my ranks meaning anything; sad day indeed.

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

I blame EoTM too.. All new players are directed there first. Just ask in g-chat whats the fastest way to level up and 90% of players will tell you to go to EoTM..

Swagger.1459:

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

Oh now they can coexist?

I have to laugh at your post. You do realize that what you’ve been pushing for (megaserver wvw) will diminish other players and play styles? I hope you get it now that not everyone wants to run around with massive numbers on maps 24/7. I like how you used words like force when not too long ago you wanted to force us all into EoTM type gameplay.

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

Oh now they can coexist?

I have to laugh at your post. You do realize that what you’ve been pushing for (megaserver wvw) will diminish other players and play styles? I hope you get it now that not everyone wants to run around with massive numbers on maps 24/7. I like how you used words like force when not too long ago you wanted to force us all into EoTM type gameplay.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Both game modes are different and can coexist.

“Megaserver” is a map mechanic. Surely you can differentiate between a 4 map game mode that counts toward ppt and has different objectives and will have competitive tournaments verses a 1 map eotm that ppt numbers do not count toward regular and tournament wvw scoring?

I sincerely hope you can understand the differences right?

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

Oh now they can coexist?

I have to laugh at your post. You do realize that what you’ve been pushing for (megaserver wvw) will diminish other players and play styles? I hope you get it now that not everyone wants to run around with massive numbers on maps 24/7. I like how you used words like force when not too long ago you wanted to force us all into EoTM type gameplay.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Both game modes are different and can coexist.

“Megaserver” is a map mechanic. Surely you can differentiate between a 4 map game mode that counts toward ppt and has different objectives and will have competitive tournaments verses a 1 map eotm that ppt numbers do not count toward regular and tournament wvw scoring?

I sincerely hope you can understand the differences right?

lol

whatever you say. you have some sense of superiority for some reason. go to eotm if you enjoy that type of gameplay.. don’t turn wvw into that which is what you have been pushing for..

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

Oh now they can coexist?

I have to laugh at your post. You do realize that what you’ve been pushing for (megaserver wvw) will diminish other players and play styles? I hope you get it now that not everyone wants to run around with massive numbers on maps 24/7. I like how you used words like force when not too long ago you wanted to force us all into EoTM type gameplay.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Both game modes are different and can coexist.

“Megaserver” is a map mechanic. Surely you can differentiate between a 4 map game mode that counts toward ppt and has different objectives and will have competitive tournaments verses a 1 map eotm that ppt numbers do not count toward regular and tournament wvw scoring?

I sincerely hope you can understand the differences right?

lol

whatever you say. you have some sense of superiority for some reason. go to eotm if you enjoy that type of gameplay.. don’t turn wvw into that which is what you have been pushing for..

No, I think you should look up the differences between megaserver, wvw and eotm. They are all separate things.

Also, the devs are working on “population balance” for the big update, so it will be some type of megaserver or alliance system. There are obvious population disparities, to ignore that fact is unfortunate and unhealthy for wvw.

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Yes, let’s blame eotm for your dev neglected wvw troubles…

Some players prefer eotm because of the fast paced nature and reward pace and more frequent encounters…

Some players like the slower paced and more coordination required and more tactical nature of wvw.

Some players like both.

Both can coexist.

Killing one will not increase or improve the other one, or force players to play either.

And the very fact that eotm is more popular is a clue that more players like that playstyle better… Go figure huh?

Pretty sure you didn’t fully think about what you are requesting…

When I read threads like this, I am reminded that some of you feel some sense of superiority for some reason. Being a wvw players doesn’t give anyone the license to diminish other players or playstyles in any way…

Oh now they can coexist?

I have to laugh at your post. You do realize that what you’ve been pushing for (megaserver wvw) will diminish other players and play styles? I hope you get it now that not everyone wants to run around with massive numbers on maps 24/7. I like how you used words like force when not too long ago you wanted to force us all into EoTM type gameplay.

You don’t know what you are talking about. Both game modes are different and can coexist.

“Megaserver” is a map mechanic. Surely you can differentiate between a 4 map game mode that counts toward ppt and has different objectives and will have competitive tournaments verses a 1 map eotm that ppt numbers do not count toward regular and tournament wvw scoring?

I sincerely hope you can understand the differences right?

lol

whatever you say. you have some sense of superiority for some reason. go to eotm if you enjoy that type of gameplay.. don’t turn wvw into that which is what you have been pushing for..

No, I think you should look up the differences between megaserver, wvw and eotm. They are all separate things.

Also, the devs are working on “population balance” for the big update, so it will be some type of megaserver or alliance system. There are obvious population disparities, to ignore that fact is unfortunate and unhealthy for wvw.

No need to look them up when I’ve been on this ride long enough to see how each of them effected players and game modes. EoTM should go bye bye. Its the newer type of game mode and it is not even being used for what it was created for. ANet doesn’t have man power to update the 3 game modes that came with game so no need for another game mode called EoTM to take the place of one of the original game modes.

If EoTM is “stealing WvW players”, by that same logic EB is stealing players from the borders (120+ queue on EB, none on borders on reset). Remove EB and WvW population balance is magically fixed! Or something like that.

kroter.1326:

Every WvW “incentive” you have added is available in EOTM.
EOTM was introduced so people would have something to play while waiting in queue for WvW. Now there are no queues. Well, there MIGHT be a queue on EB and homeborder at the same time, but it still leaves 2 more borders for them to play while waiting in queue for EB. EOTM has outlived it’s usefuless. It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore. All that EOTM does now is stealing players from WvW in huge numbers. And not because it’s better, but because it’s much easier to farm.
My server didn’t have a commander in WvW, but EOTM had a commander from my server, from a guild that’s supposed to be WvW-focused. Why? Because it allowed him to rankfarm those memories and proofs with zero resistance.
Why play WvW at all if you can have everything you need via PVE-like rankfarm in EOTM?

The gamemode isn’t struggling with numbers, all those numbers are in EOTM. Lots and lots of them.

I know this problem was mentioned before, but now it’s more critical than ever.

Remove EOTM. Or cut out every WvW-specific reward out of EOTM so people won’t farm WvW rewards and WvW dailies in PVE.

Or don’t touch EOTM and remove WvW instead. One of them has to go so the other can live in peace.

Put yourself in the shoes of a dedicated EOTM player for a moment.

If you remove the map will that player be happy or angry? I bet they would be very angry. Given that they would most likely be angry I don’t think they will happily move over to the borderlands, they would most likely quit the game. This would weaken WvW more than it has been IMO. I think we need to fix WvW and EOTM will naturally become less of an issue.

briggah.7910:

EoTM should just get removed. It is not needed anymore.. I don’t like to speak for anyone else than myself but this time I have to.. Nobody in the past year has played EoTM while waiting for their queue to pop.. Not one single player..

There were very little queues faced this year by comparison… Point is moot.

If you are speaking for yourself, and do not need eotm anymore, then don’t zone in right?

You can have your fun in EB or the ghost land bl maps that almost nobody likes…

I am sorry that you don’t find eotm fun like many others do, it’s a shame, you’re missing out… Hey ya know, if you have some great wvw talent, why don’t you put on commander tag and show all the eotm people just how it’s done huh?

I’d love to see a stream of you leading the pack in eotm and show us just how good you are at compared… Surely your wvw skills would be a great asset to players there so it shouldn’t be a problem for you to do right?

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

That’s why I also proposed cutting out WvW rewards out of EOTM. Or at the very least limiting rank-ups in EOTM to one per day, similar to what was done for PVP custom arenas. If they like EOTM so much they can still play it, but if they want badges, proofs, memories, rank-up chests and dailies – welcome to WvW. Because having it all in EOTM and having it unrestricted feels like having PVP progression for killing training golems in HOTM.

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

That’s why I also proposed cutting out WvW rewards out of EOTM. Or at the very least limiting rank-ups in EOTM to one per day, similar to what was done for PVP custom arenas. If they like EOTM so much they can still play it, but if they want badges, proofs, memories, rank-up chests and dailies – welcome to WvW. Because having it all in EOTM and having it unrestricted feels like having PVP progression for killing training golems in HOTM.

You do realize what people have been doing in EotM, they’ll just do it in normal WvW. Right?

The term ‘karma train’ in WvW was coined before EotM existed.

The real problem is the game does not reward players for holding and defending objectives as well as taking them. That’s the core of the issue. Considering WvW mode is the most unrewarding mode in the game period.

Azure Prower.8701:

The real problem is the game does not reward players for holding and defending objectives as well as taking them. That’s the core of the issue. Considering WvW mode is the most unrewarding mode in the game period.

If they keep adding rewards to both WvW and EOTM like they did with memories and proofs most people would still prefer EOTM, just because it’s easier to farm there. Even (especially) if the gamemode will become the most rewarding in the game.

WvW needs WvW rewards to get people into WvW, not into EOTM.

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

Yeah this is probably right and its a reflection of EOTM being one of the biggest mistakes they ever made with WvW.

I think we have 4 WvW maps, and should have a single instance of each available. 2 Home BL’s for the 3rd place server, one home BL for the 2nd, Invader on all 3 for the winning server.

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

That’s why I also proposed cutting out WvW rewards out of EOTM. Or at the very least limiting rank-ups in EOTM to one per day, similar to what was done for PVP custom arenas. If they like EOTM so much they can still play it, but if they want badges, proofs, memories, rank-up chests and dailies – welcome to WvW. Because having it all in EOTM and having it unrestricted feels like having PVP progression for killing training golems in HOTM.

The thing is there’s a chunk of EOTM’ers that are into pve and have no interest in fighting other factions or players. A lot of people just use it to level. So if you nerf that crap, well, it’s just back to pve.

If populations were still like they were in the first two years of the game, then I’d be all for EotM’s removal. Now though, it’s going to end up causing much more problems than it fixes. Not all servers and tiers have the luxury of nonstop coverage and fights most days of the week. For some timezones, EotM is sometimes the only option. By taking that away without anything else in place to help said players get fights, then it’s just going to be needlessly sacrificing some players for the sake of potentially getting others.

I think all of you who oppose eotm should go there and play. You’d be surprised how much more fun and fast paced it is than wvw… Plus, you can put on a commander tag and show off your superior leadership, competitive and group coordination skills. Doing that may teach more players about core wvw elements, gameplay and tactics, and encourage them to try wvw in a year when the “super secret” update drops…

So who is going to step up and help build communities? Hmm?

Or is it just easier to degrade players enjoying a different wvw game mode?

Also, some of you forget the devs have said that tons of pve players were also wvw players too, so just be careful when you mentally make your separation between wvw and pve players… You’ll come to find some of the superior guilds and players from the past have (and still do) played both areas of the game…

It’s sad to see a game mode dying because of lack of development, and also from lack of respect by certain players, for all players across the game. Seems pretty anti community building and counter productive to me.

EoTM is definitely a part of the downfall of WvW. But just a part. It’s one mistake in a long line of mistakes that Anet has made in the development of WvW.

Will removing it now help WvW? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think there’s a very good argument that it helps WvW now in its current form though.

What they should do is fold EoTM into WvW with the big update coming later this year. If there is really going to be some kind of megaserver or alliances then make EoTM part of WvW proper in a map rotation or something like that.

@letoll

It’s unfortunate that you are generalizing players in eotm or eotm itself. Behaviors like that happen in any game sorry, wvw is not immune. All types of players are across the entire game…

Individual commanders set the tone, and there are some great commanders who have and do run in eotm. I’ve seen competent commanders in both wvw and eotm… I’ve seen competent havok groups and guilds and scouts in both wvw and eotm…

Don’t generalize players or game modes with assumptions, it weakens your argument.

Swagger.1459:

@letoll

It’s unfortunate that you are generalizing players in eotm or eotm itself. Behaviors like that happen in any game sorry, wvw is not immune. All types of players are across the entire game…

Individual commanders set the tone, and there are some great commanders who have and do run in eotm. I’ve seen competent commanders in both wvw and eotm… I’ve seen competent havok groups and guilds and scouts in both wvw and eotm…

Don’t generalize players or game modes with assumptions, it weakens your argument.

You deny a significant amount of EoTM maps are devoted to leveling and resource gathering? Or that such behavior hasn’t become so endemic in past RvR games as to ruin the intended gameplay entirely?

EoTM took players from WvW. It did more harm than it did good for those few servers that had high queues. Before EoTM people would wait around in wvw for someone to rally players up. After EoTM players do not wait to be rallied anymore they just go to EoTM instead. Your server is doing bad and losing this week? That’s ok, just go to EoTM instead. Before EoTM all the k-trainers used to try and take over certain maps. Now they just k-train in EoTM instead.

and swagger I stopped commanding a long time ago when anet made it harder for me to rally players on my server. First they took away calling out for help in cities, then they gave us EoTM map so now not many wait around anymore to be rallied.

Anet cares about the health of their game mode so much that they can’t give us private guild tags but they don’t see that things they have done were unhealthy to wvw to begin with. Population have dropped since EoTM came into play and now with the new BL its the same thing.

Johje Holan.4607:

EoTM is definitely a part of the downfall of WvW. But just a part. It’s one mistake in a long line of mistakes that Anet has made in the development of WvW.

Will removing it now help WvW? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think there’s a very good argument that it helps WvW now in its current form though.

What they should do is fold EoTM into WvW with the big update coming later this year. If there is really going to be some kind of megaserver or alliances then make EoTM part of WvW proper in a map rotation or something like that.

Eotm had nothing to do with the downfall of wvw period.

Devs lack of development did. Lack of unique rewards did. Mega huge big maps with players and stuff spread out too much did, because it makes battles less frequent, easier to avoid and overall more slow paced…

No regular and consistent tournaments for a long time was a downfall for wvw. Along with the most carptastic rewards for those tournaments… I have 500 junk scraps sitting in my inventory from a year and a half ago… Lol those Mist weapons are harder to get than legendaries and I’ve been wanting a full set, but I can only buy 1 good one and some dragonite ore right? Pretty pathetic…

Population disparities across most servers was a downfall for wvw..

Stop blaming eotm. Thank goodness it is there and thank the devs for creating a much more enjoyable and fast paced and better overall map for players who like competitive action… If it wasn’t for eotm, interest in the player vs player side of the game would probably be completely dead by now…

Also, eotm is a great place for individuals and small group players on lower pop servers to have a chance to find a bit more balanced wvw experience. It’s also a great place to get your “feet wet” into this game mode…

Aaron.4807:

LetoII.3782:

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

The thing is there’s a chunk of EOTM’ers that are into pve and have no interest in fighting other factions or players. A lot of people just use it to level. So if you nerf that crap, well, it’s just back to pve.

There is also a huge chunk of people who will switch back to WvW, just as they switched from WvW to EOTM some time ago.

And PVE belongs to PVE, isn’t? But I like how much you care about those poor PVE people, Mr WvW-specialist.

He does have a valid point.
Keep trading, or as it’s known here Ktrain, is historically an issue in RvR games that has a negative impact on game quality… Sides shouldn’t collude. It’s also why Anet is careful not to make WvW too rewarding.

EoTM does us a favor in giving inclined individuals a place to engage in that behavior. Away from us.

My guild [IX] Had better fights and more fun in one night of EotM than the past 3 months of regular WvW combined. Anet has totally killed WvW and blaming EotM for Anets failure to actually listen to the people that actually play WvW is pretty kitten stupid.

You know what is great about EotM? No kittening banners, and people will actually fight instead of turtle in a tower. WvW doesn’t do any of that anymore.

Archon Wing and I are both making the point that Long-Term AND Hotjoin RvR have their place.
Why it’s assumed I have no EoTM experience and require educating about the goings-on is a bit curious.. As I not only beta tested the map, but also have leveled characters there… And had a few good fights, given.

As it stands, Eotm is imo a third of the overall problem with WvW. If you want to have RvR in an MMO the population and system by which you manage that population has to work appropriately. Thing is, neither the system used to determine standing and matchup in WvW nor the population of WvW are appropriate for the current game mode structure. No matter how you choose to look at this issue, Eotm is a contributor to this issue. That is just my opinion.

Edit: I am elaborating on my opinion above

LetoII.3782:

Swagger.1459:

@letoll

It’s unfortunate that you are generalizing players in eotm or eotm itself. Behaviors like that happen in any game sorry, wvw is not immune. All types of players are across the entire game…

Individual commanders set the tone, and there are some great commanders who have and do run in eotm. I’ve seen competent commanders in both wvw and eotm… I’ve seen competent havok groups and guilds and scouts in both wvw and eotm…

Don’t generalize players or game modes with assumptions, it weakens your argument.

You deny a significant amount of EoTM maps are devoted to leveling and resource gathering? Or that such behavior hasn’t become so endemic in past RvR games as to ruin the intended gameplay entirely?

Players are there for different reasons… Such behaviours exist in wvw too…

Resource gathering… that’s interesting, considering players can gather resources faster and more efficiently in pve…

Your arguments are weak with your generalizations…

Swagger.1459:

Players are there for different reasons… Such behaviours exist in wvw too…

Yes, but NOT because of the money or the mega-xp
Note that when collusion first occurred en masse in WvW (GvGs), Anet was quick to respond with the Obsidian Sanctum.
EoTM is another Quarantine

Resource gathering… that’s interesting, considering players can gather resources faster and more efficiently in pve…

Not all resources.

Swagger.1459:

Your arguments are weak with your generalizations…

My, so aggressive :]

Brutal Augus.5917:

As it stands, Eotm is imo a third of the overall problem with WvW. If you want to have RvR in an MMO the population and system by which you manage that population has to work appropriately.

You can’t make people WANT to do what you want them to do.

Something many citizens of Democracy seem to misunderstand.

ArchonWing.9480:

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

That’s why I also proposed cutting out WvW rewards out of EOTM. Or at the very least limiting rank-ups in EOTM to one per day, similar to what was done for PVP custom arenas. If they like EOTM so much they can still play it, but if they want badges, proofs, memories, rank-up chests and dailies – welcome to WvW. Because having it all in EOTM and having it unrestricted feels like having PVP progression for killing training golems in HOTM.

The thing is there’s a chunk of EOTM’ers that are into pve and have no interest in fighting other factions or players. A lot of people just use it to level. So if you nerf that crap, well, it’s just back to pve.

Dear ArchonWing,

Please pass this along to the team…

Allow players to buy those unobtainable mist weapons gathering dust for a year and a half now…

1 weapon for X badges of honor and X crafting material or X mystic coins or something…

Thanks!

LetoII.3782:

Swagger.1459:

Players are there for different reasons… Such behaviours exist in wvw too…

Yes, but NOT because of the money or the mega-xp
Note that when collusion first occurred en masse in WvW (GvGs), Anet was quick to respond with the Obsidian Sanctum.
EoTM is another Quarantine

You should focus more on the big pictures and benefits of eotm… WvW is dying, eotm is not… The devs hit a home run with eotm, y’all should give it more credit…

People play EotM because they already mastered EB karma train.

Swagger.1459:

LetoII.3782:

Swagger.1459:

Players are there for different reasons… Such behaviours exist in wvw too…

Yes, but NOT because of the money or the mega-xp
Note that when collusion first occurred en masse in WvW (GvGs), Anet was quick to respond with the Obsidian Sanctum.
EoTM is another Quarantine

You should focus more on the big pictures and benefits of eotm… WvW is dying, eotm is not… The devs hit a home run with eotm, y’all should give it more credit…

People complaining that WvW has reached an experience quality so low that EoTM is better, is most definitely NOT the same as EoTM is the best form of RvR lol

Swagger.1459:

ArchonWing.9480:

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.

That’s why I also proposed cutting out WvW rewards out of EOTM. Or at the very least limiting rank-ups in EOTM to one per day, similar to what was done for PVP custom arenas. If they like EOTM so much they can still play it, but if they want badges, proofs, memories, rank-up chests and dailies – welcome to WvW. Because having it all in EOTM and having it unrestricted feels like having PVP progression for killing training golems in HOTM.

The thing is there’s a chunk of EOTM’ers that are into pve and have no interest in fighting other factions or players. A lot of people just use it to level. So if you nerf that crap, well, it’s just back to pve.

Dear ArchonWing,

Please pass this along to the team…

Allow players to buy those unobtainable mist weapons gathering dust for a year and a half now…

1 weapon for X badges of honor and X crafting material or X mystic coins or something…

Thanks!

LetoII.3782:

Not all resources.

LetoII.3782:

Swagger.1459:

Players are there for different reasons… Such behaviours exist in wvw too…

Yes, but NOT because of the money or the mega-xp
Note that when collusion first occurred en masse in WvW (GvGs), Anet was quick to respond with the Obsidian Sanctum.
EoTM is another Quarantine

Resource gathering… that’s interesting, considering players can gather resources faster and more efficiently in pve…

Not all resources.

Swagger.1459:

Your arguments are weak with your generalizations…

My, so aggressive :]

Brutal Augus.5917:

As it stands, Eotm is imo a third of the overall problem with WvW. If you want to have RvR in an MMO the population and system by which you manage that population has to work appropriately.

You can’t make people WANT to do what you want them to do.

Something many citizens of Democracy seem to misunderstand.

No part of my statement suggests I want to make anyone do anything. Just becauze i point out that one game mode conflicts with another doesn’t warrant jumping to the conclusion I want to make anyone who doesnt want to wvw do so. The point of my statement was pointing out that the current state of the population isn’t appropriate for the system being used to manage it in the game mode. Also, what does democracy have to do with any part of this thread?

Aaron.4807:

My guild [IX] Had better fights and more fun in one night of EotM than the past 3 months of regular WvW combined.

Thanks for bringing some talent into EoTM, that’s exactly what it needs. Just too bad they linked eotm to the servers instead of making it a balanced megaserver. Maybe they’ll get it right on this new “overhaul” we hear so little about.

I find these threads highly amusing. Who are you to say that EoTM should go away just so your preferred game mode is better for you? Thats like saying they should get rid of all HOT, Shiverpeaks, Mauuma, TC and Orr PvE zones so people can just all play in Ascalon zones ‘for better population’, cause i like that zone better.

And looking at the populations of both WvW and EotM, you could deduce that the EoTM folks greatly outnumber the WvW folks. EoTM is doing something right.

If you really cared about WvW, you’d be giving ideas on how to enhance it, not nerfing/getting rid of other game modes that do not meet with your approval. But for some reason, many WvW folks have got this ego thing when it comes to EoTM. Maybe is due to out of game communication not having as great of effect in pug groups and theey get steamrolled too much. Or maybe they are are deathly afraid that an uplevel will destroy them and they wont be able to look at themselves in the mirror for a couple of weeks due to the shame. Maybe they brought all their guildies, stepped into EoTM expecting a rofl stomp, and realized they were still out numbered 5 to 1 and got their butts handed to them… Or maybe, just maybe, that the skill level is so high in WvW these days, that many of the WvWers cannot get easy kills anymore, and they are trying ANYTHING to get the PVE/EoTM folks in there to pad their kill stats and pump their little egos…

mulzi.8273:

I find these threads highly amusing. Who are you to say that EoTM should go away just so your preferred game mode is better for you? Thats like saying they should get rid of all HOT, Shiverpeaks, Mauuma, TC and Orr PvE zones so people can just all play in Ascalon zones ‘for better population’, cause i like that zone better.

And looking at the populations of both WvW and EotM, you could deduce that the EoTM folks greatly outnumber the WvW folks. EoTM is doing something right.

If you really cared about WvW, you’d be giving ideas on how to enhance it, not nerfing/getting rid of other game modes that do not meet with your approval. But for some reason, many WvW folks have got this ego thing when it comes to EoTM. Maybe is due to out of game communication not having as great of effect in pug groups and theey get steamrolled too much. Or maybe they are are deathly afraid that an uplevel will destroy them and they wont be able to look at themselves in the mirror for a couple of weeks due to the shame. Maybe they brought all their guildies, stepped into EoTM expecting a rofl stomp, and realized they were still out numbered 5 to 1 and got their butts handed to them… Or maybe, just maybe, that the skill level is so high in WvW these days, that many of the WvWers cannot get easy kills anymore, and they are trying ANYTHING to get the PVE/EoTM folks in there to pad their kill stats and pump their little egos…

I agree with this. Especially the bolded part. I DO think it’s fear of getting wrecked that keeps some of these wvw “only” players away from eotm…

I think you misunderstand what EoTM is , it was not added to give people something to do, it was meant to be the testing ground for what they planned on implementing in WvW. It is bad, but that is because what they wanted to do to WvW was bad.

“Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

lil devils x.6071:

I think you misunderstand what EoTM is , it was not added to give people something to do, it was meant to be the testing ground for what they planned on implementing in WvW.

I think you didn’t really read my initial post.

It doesn’t even serve as a testing ground anymore.

When was the last time they actually tested something there before implementing it in WvW?
The testing ground is WvW itself now.

I’m also of the opinion that eotm hurts wvw.

It has a very transient nature so ppl come and go all the time, looking for the best ktrain. It’s super boring with no attachment or sense of accomplishment. So it steals casuals who, with experience, could be valuable to commanders in wvw. I know of very few wvw vets who go to eotm, other than to level up alts or farm heroics.

And then you have guilds that are one pushed relentlessly in wvw, who apparently enjoy escaping to eotm to kill random uplevels and pvers. Newsflash: if a guild has any desire to get better at fighting, eotm is not the place. lol

I don’t think that anyone can say with honesty that eotm is serving its intended purpose.

Swagger.1459:

mulzi.8273:

I find these threads highly amusing. Who are you to say that EoTM should go away just so your preferred game mode is better for you? Thats like saying they should get rid of all HOT, Shiverpeaks, Mauuma, TC and Orr PvE zones so people can just all play in Ascalon zones ‘for better population’, cause i like that zone better.

And looking at the populations of both WvW and EotM, you could deduce that the EoTM folks greatly outnumber the WvW folks. EoTM is doing something right.

If you really cared about WvW, you’d be giving ideas on how to enhance it, not nerfing/getting rid of other game modes that do not meet with your approval. But for some reason, many WvW folks have got this ego thing when it comes to EoTM. Maybe is due to out of game communication not having as great of effect in pug groups and theey get steamrolled too much. Or maybe they are are deathly afraid that an uplevel will destroy them and they wont be able to look at themselves in the mirror for a couple of weeks due to the shame. Maybe they brought all their guildies, stepped into EoTM expecting a rofl stomp, and realized they were still out numbered 5 to 1 and got their butts handed to them… Or maybe, just maybe, that the skill level is so high in WvW these days, that many of the WvWers cannot get easy kills anymore, and they are trying ANYTHING to get the PVE/EoTM folks in there to pad their kill stats and pump their little egos…

I agree with this. Especially the bolded part. I DO think it’s fear of getting wrecked that keeps some of these wvw “only” players away from eotm…

Scared to fight in wvw where it actually matters? Once ppk comes into play EoTM will get even more players because why give points to the other servers by dying? Just go to the one game mode where nothing you do matters at all.. I’ve never been killed by an up-level so no this is not the reason I prefer wvw over upleveled map blobs..

briggah.7910:

Scared to fight in wvw where it actually matters? Once ppk comes into play EoTM will get even more players because why give points to the other servers by dying? Just go to the one game mode where nothing you do matters at all.. I’ve never been killed by an up-level so no this is not the reason I prefer wvw over upleveled map blobs..

WvW actually matters? Hah! It’s full of gimmicks and empty timezones. It’s practically dead except for NA prime, even that is pretty weak.

Now that WvW is the new testing ground, full of banner “nukes” and airstrike “nukes”, people actually go eotm for sandbox fights.

displayname.8315:

briggah.7910:

Scared to fight in wvw where it actually matters? Once ppk comes into play EoTM will get even more players because why give points to the other servers by dying? Just go to the one game mode where nothing you do matters at all.. I’ve never been killed by an up-level so no this is not the reason I prefer wvw over upleveled map blobs..

WvW actually matters? Hah! It’s full of gimmicks and empty timezones. It’s practically dead except for NA prime, even that is pretty weak.

Now that WvW is the new testing ground, full of banner “nukes” and airstrike “nukes”, people actually go eotm for sandbox fights.

Yup, and those players who prefer to fight and are not afraid to fight, go to eotm where its harder to avoid a fight. Eotm is far less gimmicky than wvw and there is a heck of a lot more action too…

And sorry, some of you wvw players may like breaking down 2-3 sets of barriers for ten minutes to make it to objectives and like getting 5 badges of honor an hour… some of us just love more fighting and fast paced heart pounding action…

Eotm is the master now!

The last time I went into EotM, it was pretty much identical to how the champ trains used to run in Queensdale. Very little PvP whatsoever. However, for all the of PvE we were doing (pretty much on autopilot) we were getting rewards that contributed towards a PvP game mode (WvW). Wxp ranks and badges, primarily. It wouldn’t be much different if we got Wxp ranks and badges from clearing out the temples in Orr. Sure, every once in a while, players would break down and actually fight each other, but it certainly wasn’t commonplace. There was only one time I’ve ever been in EotM where players actually fighting players actually was common, and that was during season 2 when the guild I was in went there on reset night because all of the WvW maps were full and we were the ones initiating all of the fights. It’s basically WvW-lite.

I’d hardly say that qualifies as a testing grounds for WvW, nor as a replica of WvW to handle overflowing queues. So it’s failed in its intention. In fact, I’d be willing to wager that if they turned PvP off in EotM, very little would change. However, if they got rid of EotM, the majority of the players would just go back to PvE and making occasional trips into WvW when they wanted to get Wxp ranks or Badges, while a smaller number of players would just go back to WvW full time. If they just got rid of the Wxp ranks and badges in EotM, it would probably just take a significant hit in population.

And that’s something else that needs to be mentioned. Look, don’t believe everything you see. The megaserver system is an illusion. The reason they brought it into PvE was because the population on the servers were so low that many of them couldn’t handle doing the world events. Just because you see 80 other people running around, that doesn’t mean that there’s numerous other instances with identical numbers. It just means that all 24 NA servers have been mashed together to make one or two full ones. The same goes for EotM. If they merged all of the servers into tier 1 and 2, all of the maps would be full too. That doesn’t mean that anything is healthy. It just means that the obvious problems have been swept under the rug. Just something to con the rubes.

And yes, EotM has had a negative impact on WvW’s population. Only an idiot would argue otherwise. Before EotM, players used to come into WvW to get badges or finish the map completion for their legendaries. Not all of them stayed, but enough did that there was healthy influx of new players. EotM took away that influx. So when natural population turnover happens, there aren’t any replacements, and the numbers gradually go down. It certainly wasn’t the only factor, but it did play a part. As did the PvE megaservers, since servers weren’t able to do rallying calls in the cities, to bring new players in. Both EotM and the PvE megaservers are 25% of the problem. The other 75% is horrible design decisions, neglect, and complete lack of communication from the WvW design “team” (I’m pretty sure it was just Devon Carter, a bowling bat with a hat and a picture of Mel Gibson from Braveheart for a good 8 months until Hugh got in trouble and they stuck him down in the basement too.)

At this point, the game as a whole is dying. Don’t let the megaserver illusion fool you. That’s why they went back on their original intention to not put out any expansions. There wasn’t enough money coming in from their shrinking playerbase, so they decided to con a bunch of people out of $50 each. And true to Anet’s style, it’s a short term “solution” that only hurts them in the long term. They’ve been sacrificing the future for the here-and-now since they put out ascended gear, and the house of cards everything is built on is now crumbling. There aren’t any quick fixes that’ll work anymore. The only thing they can do is reset everything back to how it was at launch, and go in the complete opposite direction to even have a chance to save things. But they’re not going to, because that would be admitting that they made mistakes. And Anet’s proven to be incapable of admitting their mistakes. So they’ll just keep slapping poisoned band-aid on top of poisoned band-aid until all that’s left is just a festering corpse. WvW will just be the first major casualty.

Swagger.1459:

displayname.8315:

briggah.7910:

Scared to fight in wvw where it actually matters? Once ppk comes into play EoTM will get even more players because why give points to the other servers by dying? Just go to the one game mode where nothing you do matters at all.. I’ve never been killed by an up-level so no this is not the reason I prefer wvw over upleveled map blobs..

WvW actually matters? Hah! It’s full of gimmicks and empty timezones. It’s practically dead except for NA prime, even that is pretty weak.

Now that WvW is the new testing ground, full of banner “nukes” and airstrike “nukes”, people actually go eotm for sandbox fights.

Yup, and those players who prefer to fight and are not afraid to fight, go to eotm where its harder to avoid a fight. Eotm is far less gimmicky than wvw and there is a heck of a lot more action too…

And sorry, some of you wvw players may like breaking down 2-3 sets of barriers for ten minutes to make it to objectives and like getting 5 badges of honor an hours… some of us just love more fighting and fast paced heart pounding action…

Eotm is the master now!

Pretty sure most wvw’ers do not like the new stuff added in the BL’s either. Just because EoTM doesn’t have them doesn’t mean we like them in the current wvw maps.. Hey we got banners nerfed so it is a start.. Maybe barriers next?

Very well said, Phantom.

Swagger.1459:

Yup, and those players who prefer to fight and are not afraid to fight, go to eotm where its harder to avoid a fight.

Seriously? Hope you are trolling. I’ve played EOTM for some time before posting all of this, and its typical gameplay is 3 blobs running in circles capping and recapping stuff after each other. If an accidental fight happens – it is a fight when one blob is spamming 1 1 1 on a lord, totally unaware of incoming. They get wiped before they can realize what’s happening. Sometimes I had a feeling many of them were bots, or AFK, or just didn’t know that people can kill you in EOTM and are totally shocked by this discovery. And if a commander announces himself a “fighting commander” he loses half of his blob, people leave him to find a farming overflow.

Today I’ve seen a commander asking his superior in size blob if they want to fight a smaller enemy blob. They decided “Naaaah” and went for another round of capping, recapping and happy farming. Much fights, fast paced nature, so wow.

And seeing how you are proposing in every post to come to EOTM and show “how it’s done” I’m getting more and more convinced that EOTM is stealing players and should be removed.

LetoII.3782:

Aaron.4807:

LetoII.3782:

kroter.1326:

ArchonWing.9480:

The thing is there’s a chunk of EOTM’ers that are into pve and have no interest in fighting other factions or players. A lot of people just use it to level. So if you nerf that crap, well, it’s just back to pve.

There is also a huge chunk of people who will switch back to WvW, just as they switched from WvW to EOTM some time ago.

And PVE belongs to PVE, isn’t? But I like how much you care about those poor PVE people, Mr WvW-specialist.

He does have a valid point.
Keep trading, or as it’s known here Ktrain, is historically an issue in RvR games that has a negative impact on game quality… Sides shouldn’t collude. It’s also why Anet is careful not to make WvW too rewarding.

EoTM does us a favor in giving inclined individuals a place to engage in that behavior. Away from us.

My guild [IX] Had better fights and more fun in one night of EotM than the past 3 months of regular WvW combined. Anet has totally killed WvW and blaming EotM for Anets failure to actually listen to the people that actually play WvW is pretty kitten stupid.

You know what is great about EotM? No kittening banners, and people will actually fight instead of turtle in a tower. WvW doesn’t do any of that anymore.

Archon Wing and I are both making the point that Long-Term AND Hotjoin RvR have their place.
Why it’s assumed I have no EoTM experience and require educating about the goings-on is a bit curious.. As I not only beta tested the map, but also have leveled characters there… And had a few good fights, given.

I BETA TESTED IT TOO DOES MY OPINION COUNT NOW?

Have you been there lately? It is more like WvW than WvW is NOW. But that is not the point. Complaining about EotM hurting WvW is ignoring the horrible shape that WvW is in overall and how everyone is completely sick of it. When people would rather fight in EotM than your Bl maps than something is terribly wrong with your entire game mode.

Boreal.9826:

Very well said, Phantom.

O.o