Guild Wars 2

So ever since they changed the Ele downed state so that you can vapor form immediately upon downed, I and many other Ele’s have been abusing the heck out of the fact that you can use it to get inside of an owned tower and revive when downed.

What this means is that Ele’s are essentially unkillable if they are close to an owned tower. Anytime you down them, they will simply vapor form right inside the tower and revive. Now, I see this as pretty cheap, even when I do it, and I generally feel that it shouldn’t be allowed.

But I am curious as to what the rest of the WvW community thinks…do you think that Ele downed state 2 should be changed so that it can’t go through portals? Or do you think it is fine the way it is?

yes because our other 2 downed skills are so great we should totally screw that 1 lol, there’s like literally no other point to vapor form otherwise

Cat Amiss.9463:

yes because our other 2 downed skills are so great we should totally screw that 1 lol, there’s like literally no other point to vapor form otherwise

Vapor form is an amazing downed skill. You have to realize, most downed skills do something like stun one enemy for like half a second, and then you are done. They are not what I would call powerful skills…they just delay your death.

The ability to actually MOVE and possibly get to where help is, is freaking awesome.

Also, I think that vapor form is the ONLY downed skill that is GUARANTEED to delay a stomp. Stability conquers most of them, blink stomp can end a thief on the first stomp…and the mesmer DS doesn’t always reliably teleport you far enough away.

as thieves and mesmers can’t get through portals with their downed skills, I’d say, eles shouldn’t be able to do so too.
Warriors are another thing tho. That’s a completely different mechanic.

Mesmers can do it roughly one in 20 attempts. They don’t get to choose where they teleport to, they just go somewhere. Going through a tower portal is an extremely rare stroke of luck if it happens.

I’m going to say leave it alone, simply because an intelligent player can counter it. If I see an elementalist outside of the tower we are seigeing pretending to be not so squishy, when he gets low on health after a warrior breathes on him, I will scorp wire that poor kitten as far away from the portal as I can position myself. If I time it right even with mist form they will not make it back inside.

As an ele I’ve been stopped lot’s of time from getting back inside the tower, sometimes i was too far, other times they immobilized me.

Ele’s have the lowest defense and health, it’s only fair they get something in return.
you imobilize and ele and he doesn’t got mist form or cleansing fire (and in some cases lightning flash) then he’s dead, literally dead. The other classes have a higher chance of surviving, just because of their higher health pool and higher defense.

eles still can be rooted when in vapor or mist form. So you can hold him in place and kill him when the time is over.

Big deal. One elementalist is not going to make or break a siege that’s even close to organized. Unless you had like 15 elementalists all coordinating attacks to go in and out of the towers then you might have a point. But that’ll never happen.

Every class can “abuse” the portals, it’s just that elementalists have more of a safety net when doing so. It’s hardly a game breaker.

I could care less if they changed it though. I rarely if ever go down right outside the doorway. Almost always I make it inside with 10% health or so. Mostly because I want to keep my bloodlust stacks.

Before elementalists got a downed state buff there was literally no way to prevent being stomped when downed. It is balanced by being so kitten squishy and for the fact you get an increase of downed penalty every time you use it. Also – as mentioned before – immobilization works on mist form.

I don’t think eles should be so squishy in comparison to the other cloth classes by hey, it is what it is.

Think of our downed state buff as compensation for being so squishy. That fact that as an ele you will be using downed state 2 frequently says alot to begin with.

Not to mention, the ele is the only class that doesn’t have the fall damage trait.

Creslin, you already posted this in the ele forum. You’ve had your say there. I still can’t fathom why you have latched on to this as some kind of important cause. It should be the very last thing on anybody’s list of things to fix for eles.

I’d like some clarification on one point – is it possible to immob the ele during mist/vapor, or just before it is used? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

I think at the moment it is likely not an issue, but I think that is mostly because most Ele’s are playing like mages and love to plink from range and behind walls. If you were to get a bunch of d/d ele’s popping out to AoE siege with almost no chance of death, you might hear more complaints.

yertle.5837:

I’d like some clarification on one point – is it possible to immob the ele during mist/vapor, or just before it is used? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter.

In Mist Form, you can not immobilize during the ability.

In Vapor Form, you can, you can also stun/daze. Not sure about knockbacks.

edit: And why did you make another thread on this after the previous one got locked?

Buff Eles ANET. They need some love.
PS: I thought this debate was explained and over with. It’s the same topic, by the same person. There are much bigger issues then this.

I play an ELE / MESMER / RANGER / THEIF / NECRO. I may get around to testing the other classes.

No downed ability should allow one to go through their tower door and get ressed back safely from downed, no other class has this ability why should eles?

TheBob.9863:

No downed ability should allow one to go through their tower door and get ressed back safely from downed, no other class has this ability why should eles?

You’re partially right. Eles are the only one who can do this instantly after being downed but they aren’t the only class who can make it through a portal. Warrior can get up but it takes awhile to even be usuable. Warrior can be CC’d while in Vengeance. And it takes a miracle for you to not be killed before you can even activate Vengeance so it is easily counterable. So good luck getting into the door unless you died a foot away from it.

You know what really makes this ability fun?? Leading several people on a chase as they run after you trying to kill you. Dragging them half way across the map and stopping a little short of the door to let them down you, just so you can vapor float a circle around them and in the door.

And please if you are going to come up with a reason why it needs to be changed stop using no one else can do it. Get a real reason. I mean I don’t like it when thieves stealth and backstab me, they are the only one who can!! Take it away it isn’t fair!!

Classes being different is what makes the game fun.

It’s so easy to stop an ele in vapor form from going through, any person with half a brain knows that

Vapor Form rarely ever does anything aside from stop a person from killing you for a few secs considering how fast it ends – unless you are near a tower/keep

All this is asking is for all 3 ele skills to be useless…pointless thread

Cat Amiss.9463:

Vapor Form rarely ever does anything aside from stop a person from killing you for a few secs

Welcome to every downed skill ever.

Simple fix, make it so you can’t go through the door while using it. While they’re at it, they should do the same thing for warriors.

For the time being, do the guardian “wall” skills (Sanctuary and staff 5) block the ele from the door?

Here we go yet another Nerf coming to the Ele’s any day now.
All hail the Ele’s the only NPC class of the game,

They shouldn’t have swapped spots on the two downed spells. They should’ve added an interrupt from the root spell instead. Imho.

Being able to use portals/doorways whatever you want to call the things in downed state should not be the case. Easy as that.

However what is far more broken about Ele vapor form down state thingy is that when they get to down state their life starts ticking down. However AFTER using vapor form their downed state life is back up to 50%. So if you put this into a 1v1 perspective where you have 2 people both in downed state throwing kitten at eachother the Ele just wait for his/her life to be around 10%, vapor form, BLAMMO 50%…

Lol. The vapor doesn’t even last 3 seconds. 99 times out of 100 the downed elementalist NEVER can reach the entrance…

No it doesn’t it takes ur total life and brings it down hence why the health bar moves up

Cat Amiss.9463:

No it doesn’t it takes ur total life and brings it down hence why the health bar moves up

potato, potato… Any Ele can still go from 10% in downed state to 50% in downed state. Which is broken.

yes because we are so OP in downed state we could kill you once we do that :P

you also missed my point, Eles can’t go from 10% to 50% from vapor form, either you don’t read the health bar right or the forces of god are in play

When we use vapor form our TOTAL health pool is lowered by a certain amount, that 10% would raise to 20% maybe, but your killed twice as fast then because there is less hp in that 20% because it is the same as the 10% previously

Learn how eles work 1st then complain

Along with, anyone complaining about this clearly has no idea how to stop it from even happening…it doesn’t take a genius to realize you can immobilize them as they go down, during while they r downed, and when they are in vapor form…not very difficult – don’t mindlessly zerg a place and learn how to keep people out of towers/keeps that are not only a downed ele but also people running in.

TheBob.9863:

No downed ability should allow one to go through their tower door and get ressed back safely from downed, no other class has this ability why should eles?

So all classes should have the same abilities?

stop trying to remove fun stuff from other classes

they can’t run in and out repeatedly indefinitely because of the downed state debuff. after 2 or 3 times they will just die automatically.

the only eles that should be bombing you from the doorway and running back in are dagger/dagger and they have no way to attack you from the top of the tower without using siege or switching weapons. they are no more effective doing this than if they had just used a staff and bombed you from inside, but they are at slightly higher risk.

in the end this doesn’t really give them the ability to be any more effective than everyone else. its not any better than warriors jumping down onto the doorway with their fall talent or mesmers using feedback on the ram at the gate.

if its just the fact that they have so many escapes that bothers you, try to remember they have low hp/light armor. the only class that has this combination.

we should complain about broken things that are ruining the game for people or giving unfair advantages that actually are affecting the outcome of the battle. not stuff like this.

I think it’s a bug. Before the skill switch Vapor Form didn’t allow you to go through doors. Quite funny that Ele downed skill went from being the worst to the best though.

The issue is that they removed the Stupid Penalty from tower defense. Any baddie can walk out, spam all his skills, get downed, then float back into the tower and res. Hopefully this was just an oversight by Anet…

buki.3108:

I think it’s a bug. Before the skill switch Vapor Form didn’t allow you to go through doors. Quite funny that Ele downed skill went from being the worst to the best though.

The issue is that they removed the Stupid Penalty from tower defense. Any baddie can walk out, spam all his skills, get downed, then float back into the tower and res. Hopefully this was just an oversight by Anet…

No they can’t, after every time you use vapor you get an additional downed point. If you use it too much in a short time you will die anyway right after the vapor is over, without going downed first.

Only issue is Ele going into it, causes them to get +1 Downed state (You’ll notice each time you use it, it counts as an extra downed time.) It last’s 3 seconds, Can be CC’d, so honestly, why is there a thread complaining again?

Mesmers get stealth, and clones.
Thieves get stealth and a finish time reduction.
Ect…

You already notice less Ele’s playing due to the “nerf nerf nerf nerf” that’s been hitting Ele’s since Beta with the exception of very few skills.
You notice many other classes aren’t nerfed Nearly as much as Elementalists.
Many classes do more damage, survive longer, and have more use in WvW then an elementalist.

Should we cry for any skill that is special to 1 class or another?
OK, remove the form from going through doors. (Since as an Ele you’re lucky to even get into the keep/tower with enemies at the gate.)
Also remove AOE cap. Thanks.

Take 1 last thing for ele’s to be useful away, how about add another one in.

I consider it a real treat to stop them from getting back into their tower

Stack immobilize. As an ele, that crap is obnoxious.

So let me get this straight.
You want to nerf the class with
the lowest armor
lowest hp
whose abilities are hit hardest by the 5 man cap which is almost ever present in WvW
the only class who has no fall damage perk (which most people consider to be practically essential in WvW)
The class that is essentially forced into using their worst PvP weapon because the other ones cannot even attempt to hit people outside or inside towers

This is the class you want to nerf? Talk about kicking someone while they’re downed (literally in this case)

stupid is as stupid does :P

Zenyatoo.4059:

So let me get this straight.
You want to nerf the class with
the lowest armor
lowest hp
whose abilities are hit hardest by the 5 man cap which is almost ever present in WvW
the only class who has no fall damage perk (which most people consider to be practically essential in WvW)
The class that is essentially forced into using their worst PvP weapon because the other ones cannot even attempt to hit people outside or inside towers

This is the class you want to nerf? Talk about kicking someone while they’re downed (literally in this case)

Pull out of combat, swap to staff. Idk, I adore my ele in WvW, but no we dont need any nerfs to our downed state.

Ender.3508:

Zenyatoo.4059:

So let me get this straight.
You want to nerf the class with
the lowest armor
lowest hp
whose abilities are hit hardest by the 5 man cap which is almost ever present in WvW
the only class who has no fall damage perk (which most people consider to be practically essential in WvW)
The class that is essentially forced into using their worst PvP weapon because the other ones cannot even attempt to hit people outside or inside towers

This is the class you want to nerf? Talk about kicking someone while they’re downed (literally in this case)

Pull out of combat, swap to staff. Idk, I adore my ele in WvW, but no we dont need any nerfs to our downed state.

That’s hardly a good solution though. We’re the only class that needs to leave combat to switch to a different weapon if our team suddenly decides to attack or defend anything

A couple thoughts:

1. This thread should be moved to the elementalist forum. It’s not a thread much about the entry of elementalists thru the tower door but rather a thread about the downed state of elemenentalists being overpowered or not.

2. I completely disagree with the OP. The OP brings this up stating he/she is overpowered when using it, but then seems to go on a mission to call it overpowered and get it changed. This isn’t even the first thread the OP created on this subject. This is more of a thread created by someone who got frustrated trying to kill an elementalist that kept going into the tower room after being downed? A couple thoughts on that:

A.) An elementalist can not just do this over and over and over as the health bar gets lowered dramatically after each use. Therefore, after doing this three or four times, the elementalist will kill itself. This argument is like having an argument over the overpowered portal if placing a few of those over time would kill the mesmer. I wish!

B.) Seriously, OP? You have a problem with the elementalist being overpowered? Trouble killing elementalists next to a tower? Elementalists are so overpowered by the downed state that you have taken this on as a mission to fix as you watch elementalists ruin WvWvW as we know it because this makes them too elite and the new flavor of the month for builds? NO? I didn’t think so. Get over it.

Eyelusion.8205:

A couple thoughts:

1. This thread should be moved to the elementalist forum. It’s not a thread much about the entry of elementalists thru the tower door but rather a thread about the downed state of elemenentalists being overpowered or not.

This thread was first posted in the ele forums and then closed. No idea why this one hasn’t been closed yet.

Defending against discussion of a Elementalist Downed skill, justifying it by saying that the rest of the class is under powered (not commenting on this), is like saying that the resent Mesmer illusion summoning bugs implemented is fine because Portal is such a good skill.

Besides, if you really think the downed state abilities need to be better to compensate for other abilities… then you’re just crazy. Personally I would prefer abilities that would prevent me from going down, not making my Downed state powerful.

As for those saying that you can’t do hit and runs and just vapor form through the door due to the downed penalty prevents you from doing this constantly, that is a strawman and you know it.

And as for saying that anyone with half a brain knows how to deal with Vapor form, what a big ego you have. Mist Form makes the user invulnerable, therefore most non-Elementalist players would assume that Vapor Form also makes the user invulnerable (therefore not a valid target for CC).

The Elementalist downed2 is obviously one of the most powerful downed abilities in the game. No one else can use a downed skill to go through doors, or jump into the Drowning state (where they can then swim away). Personally I wouldn’t care if my class had the worst downed state, because once your downed you are supposed to be basically dead most of the time (I main a Mesmer, so yeah that probably is the worst Downed state right there). If they nerfed or buffed the Mesmer Downed state I wouldn’t really care, because I don’t intend to spend much time in that state anyways, and neither should you.

Eyelusion.8205:

A couple thoughts:

1. This thread should be moved to the elementalist forum. It’s not a thread much about the entry of elementalists thru the tower door but rather a thread about the downed state of elemenentalists being overpowered or not.

2. I completely disagree with the OP. The OP brings this up stating he/she is overpowered when using it, but then seems to go on a mission to call it overpowered and get it changed. This isn’t even the first thread the OP created on this subject. This is more of a thread created by someone who got frustrated trying to kill an elementalist that kept going into the tower room after being downed? A couple thoughts on that:

A.) An elementalist can not just do this over and over and over as the health bar gets lowered dramatically after each use. Therefore, after doing this three or four times, the elementalist will kill itself. This argument is like having an argument over the overpowered portal if placing a few of those over time would kill the mesmer. I wish!

B.) Seriously, OP? You have a problem with the elementalist being overpowered? Trouble killing elementalists next to a tower? Elementalists are so overpowered by the downed state that you have taken this on as a mission to fix as you watch elementalists ruin WvWvW as we know it because this makes them too elite and the new flavor of the month for builds? NO? I didn’t think so. Get over it.

I know for a fact he mains a d/d Ele, and is very good at it.

I main a d/d Ele as well, and yes I can do this over and over more then 4 times. I just wait a bit when I get the red downed state icon till it goes back yellow. I live long enough ducking in and out of the tower and using all my utilities that this is never a problem.

The previous thread got closed because of inflammatory tones by other posters. A lot of people are overreacting just because they think the word nerf. He is not asking for a nerf, he’s asking to fix an obviously broken mechanic.

Some claim that this can’t be effective enough to matter, as someone who does this on a regular basis I disagree. I’ve stalled huge zergs by myself doing it tons of time. I get them to pull back away from their rams trying to draw me out further. I get lots of them downed and several defeated every time I do it..

People assume that it would only be used to go out and be suicidal until downed. Well that would indeed not be very effective. But when you play to the full potential and keep ducking in and out of the tower when needed and use all of your utilities to survive combined with being skilled and having a solid build, you will survive a long time and do tons of damage.

The fact that once they finally do lock me down and defeat me, that I can just kitten my way back into the tower and rez up only to start the process over again fresh, is in my opinion OP and broken.

Surbrus.6942:

I don’t intend to spend much time in that state anyways

“I dont intend to spend much time in that state anyways”
And that’s because you dont play an elementalist. ;o

@ Dank
So the elementalist has one thing that makes them really good at tower defense. Who cares? Mesmers have unparalleled advantages in certain offensive’s due to their ability to bring their entire team beyond chokepoints. But that hasnt been nerfed either. Thieves are able to delay the capturing of points longer and with more ease than any other class. Warriors can pick off single targets uninhibited (the only counters to it are only relevant if you’re aware of the warrior and can see him doing the animation, which is often not true for large scale engagements) And so on. A variety of classes have a variety of things that only they can do. The overall usefulness of being able to get back into a tower over and over is still less than portaling your entire team behind 8 enemy arrow carts and 4 ballista. It doesnt really deserve a nerf.

Surbrus.6942:

Defending against discussion of a Elementalist Downed skill, justifying it by saying that the rest of the class is under powered (not commenting on this), is like saying that the resent Mesmer illusion summoning bugs implemented is fine because Portal is such a good skill.

Besides, if you really think the downed state abilities need to be better to compensate for other abilities… then you’re just crazy. Personally I would prefer abilities that would prevent me from going down, not making my Downed state powerful.

As for those saying that you can’t do hit and runs and just vapor form through the door due to the downed penalty prevents you from doing this constantly, that is a strawman and you know it.

And as for saying that anyone with half a brain knows how to deal with Vapor form, what a big ego you have. Mist Form makes the user invulnerable, therefore most non-Elementalist players would assume that Vapor Form also makes the user invulnerable (therefore not a valid target for CC).

The Elementalist downed2 is obviously one of the most powerful downed abilities in the game. No one else can use a downed skill to go through doors, or jump into the Drowning state (where they can then swim away). Personally I wouldn’t care if my class had the worst downed state, because once your downed you are supposed to be basically dead most of the time (I main a Mesmer, so yeah that probably is the worst Downed state right there). If they nerfed or buffed the Mesmer Downed state I wouldn’t really care, because I don’t intend to spend much time in that state anyways, and neither should you.

just lol.

Everyone get over it, every single patch there’s more idiotic nerfs to Eles

If you are going to QQ about something then dont pick a downed state ability, especially 1 as stupid as this. Maybe we should nerf the lightning ability while downed because it inflicts vulernability too on instant cast? OMG SO OP

You vapor form too many times in a set amount of time the ele instantly kills itself (an if you wait for the debuff to go away 9/10 if it’s a good zerg your gate or wall is gone anyways), simple as that…there’s only so many suicide runs you can do, not to mention theres a massive amount of places too far away from the tower that if the ele tried to suicide run on it’s own it would never make it back. Just because you can’t figure out how to keep them out of the tower/keep doesn’t means it’s an UBER OP skill. It just means you need to figure out something else than just face smashing buttons.

It’s really pathetic to see people complaining about the worst downed state class in the game, along with the squishiest class (now that we don’t even have bunker ele anymore)

Along with suicide running even as a D/D ele can barely do anything to siege before a zerg kills them, and trying to cast meteor shower half the time when they see you coming (if it’s an actual organized zerg) doesn’t work at all…stop crying about silly things and learn to counterattack something as dumb as this skill.

I still enjoy me ele even after every single nerf we keep getting for whatever reason they give it to us. But to cry about our downed state which kills us indefinitely after a few tries of it? just wow.

dank.3680:

Eyelusion.8205:

A couple thoughts:

1. This thread should be moved to the elementalist forum. It’s not a thread much about the entry of elementalists thru the tower door but rather a thread about the downed state of elemenentalists being overpowered or not.

2. I completely disagree with the OP. The OP brings this up stating he/she is overpowered when using it, but then seems to go on a mission to call it overpowered and get it changed. This isn’t even the first thread the OP created on this subject. This is more of a thread created by someone who got frustrated trying to kill an elementalist that kept going into the tower room after being downed? A couple thoughts on that:

A.) An elementalist can not just do this over and over and over as the health bar gets lowered dramatically after each use. Therefore, after doing this three or four times, the elementalist will kill itself. This argument is like having an argument over the overpowered portal if placing a few of those over time would kill the mesmer. I wish!

B.) Seriously, OP? You have a problem with the elementalist being overpowered? Trouble killing elementalists next to a tower? Elementalists are so overpowered by the downed state that you have taken this on as a mission to fix as you watch elementalists ruin WvWvW as we know it because this makes them too elite and the new flavor of the month for builds? NO? I didn’t think so. Get over it.

I know for a fact he mains a d/d Ele, and is very good at it.

I main a d/d Ele as well, and yes I can do this over and over more then 4 times. I just wait a bit when I get the red downed state icon till it goes back yellow. I live long enough ducking in and out of the tower and using all my utilities that this is never a problem.

The previous thread got closed because of inflammatory tones by other posters. A lot of people are overreacting just because they think the word nerf. He is not asking for a nerf, he’s asking to fix an obviously broken mechanic.

Some claim that this can’t be effective enough to matter, as someone who does this on a regular basis I disagree. I’ve stalled huge zergs by myself doing it tons of time. I get them to pull back away from their rams trying to draw me out further. I get lots of them downed and several defeated every time I do it..

People assume that it would only be used to go out and be suicidal until downed. Well that would indeed not be very effective. But when you play to the full potential and keep ducking in and out of the tower when needed and use all of your utilities to survive combined with being skilled and having a solid build, you will survive a long time and do tons of damage.

The fact that once they finally do lock me down and defeat me, that I can just kitten my way back into the tower and rez up only to start the process over again fresh, is in my opinion OP and broken.

Some pretty mindless zergs you’ve been attacking then.

Stop trying to making Arena Net nurf the FEW good things about every class and learn how to play better.