Guild Wars 2

So I just hit my 80 with both my engi and my necro and I was looking to make one of them my main for WvW, here’s what I’m looking for: Decent Mobility with the ability to tag as many as I can in zerging while being able to hold my own in small group roaming. Looking more for a bunker/sustain type build than a zerker. My pros and cons are:

Engi:
+1500 range with grenades
+ good mobility with rocket boosts and perma swift
- grenades are kind of hard to use, small blast radius compared to marks
+ already have a condi/sustain build planned out:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpvrlYxdLseRCbBNqxAqJKyNWlPfgAkUA-w

Necro:
+ Much MUCH more aesthetically appealing than Engi
+ Traited marks have a huge radius
+ Huge tagging potential with epidemic
- Not much mobility outside of perma swift
- can’t think of a build that utilizes both condi damage and heal power

FYI: I roam mostly with a thief if that makes a difference.

I would say Necro if it’s for ZvZ. Not to say engi wouldn’t be bad but I think you will contribute better and get more tagging (bags) with necro.

Marks are great but wells is where it’s at. Converting conditions on allies into boons and converting boons on opponents into conditions is very benefitial to the zerg as a whole. Plague form plus spam blind inside the enemy zerg and having half their attacks miss is another huge benefit to your zerg.

No one wants an engi for zerging. If that is your goal, go necro.

engi can tag A LOT more then necro, because nades are like meteor shower, you get 3-4 explosives all hitting up to 5 people. Downside to engi – retal affects them alot harder then necro due to them hittin more people at once.

Bomb engi is strong in zergs, but they walk a fine line. They are not going to be meta anyday soon, but they are faaaaar from useless. In terms of AOE prowess they are more potent then necro, but less damage then an ele. They do not have a good AOE boon rip. Mines have fairly long CD and only hit once per mine, they do not pulse like well of corruption, but you can ofcourse use them to provide some boon removal.

Lol people think necros are in GWEN for a boon strip of one boon per pulse and some blind you get once per fight, I’m guessing you have no idea about the raw spike damage they can produce ^^.

For zerg fights necro is far more useful. But engis and necros cant realy escape. I think this is the 2 slowest class in the game.
Necro can tag nearly everybody thx to death shroud, wells and marks. If you want to help your mates choose the dark side

necro might be the best class in the game, even more powerful than guardians in big groups at the current state of wvw.

If you are not in a 30 man organized group it doesnt matter. Both can be fun and strong. If you plan on being guilded, Necro is the meta.

Though as a sidenote, when we did an all engineer pug raid on Piken (40+ or so, lol) we absolutely crushed everything. Enemy pug zergs where steamrolled. Even 30+ man guilds pretty much died on the spot the moment they pushed. Supply crate bombing followed by only using flamethrowers ftw lol. Well, until they learned to counter it.

So its a strong class en masse, but its not really flexible despite all its gadgets and tricks.

Engi-

-Perma swift but have to on/off kits, rocket boots, stun break + aoe stealth in one elixir, shield can block attacks, so good mobility and escape.
-Grenades are great damage and can be traited for 1500 range which is really great for zerging, but pain in the kitten to use because of the constant #1 spamming and can be hard to see the green aoe circle when to much stuff on the screen
- High damage and condi spam
- Heal skills can be unreliable at times
-Grenade use in zerging leaves you open to retal damage
-Great defensive traits in adept line
-Good support options for groups if your into that, heal turret, water fields, blast finishers, elixir gun etc.
-Tons of cc’s

Necro-
-Extremely high damage if zerker build
-Death shroud provides second life and high sustainability
-Very little escape options
-Mobility consists mainly of using signet of the locust, recommended to switch out before entering combat, this can be annoying at times, and sometimes can forget
-High damage and condi spam ability
-Excellent in small groups and zergs
-Little group support, mainly 1-2 wells, main heal skill has 25s cd but can remove conditions so Death shroud/life force management is extremely important to balance with DS damage buffs regarding traits mainly “Death Perception” drop well pop death shroud to get Death Perception to kick in to increase damage is the ideal method. Alternatively Death shroud lets you hide with a new life bar essentially to wait out your heal skills cd. So you have to manage damage vs life properly with each situation
- * VERY IMPORTANT- You will be ganked and focused down as a necro, necros and eles are the top targets for gankers so its very important to stay in the back and hide behind your frontline.

Zetsumei.4975:

Lol people think necros are in GWEN for a boon strip of one boon per pulse and some blind you get once per fight, I’m guessing you have no idea about the raw spike damage they can produce ^^.

their damage and tankyness can be done equally good or better by other professions. It is in fact their ability to DPS + boonstrip that make them truly valuable.

As for their spike, reeeaaaaally? It doesnt cut remotely close to ele, and bomb kit engi can deal as much damage if they set themselves up for it (been on the recieving end of that setup a few times).
Necromancers leave big obvious red circles that you can in most cases just walk or evade through to avoid a large portion of the damage.
Lich form is a joke, you activate it and every sniper just instantly goes “oh look, free kill with zero mobility”.

That being said, engies are a handful to play, i cannot play them very well myself, however necromaners. necromancers are so forgiving that it is funny.

Don’t run zerker necro and you can survive running inside the front line. Trait for the DS skill to heal allies and they will love you.
Don’t use lich form until well in to the fight when the snipers are otherwise occupied- if you pop at the start you will be dead before your first 1 spam hits anything.
If you decide on engi for wvw, leave your grenade kit at home- it’s by far the fastest way to kill yourself in the game (especially if you trait the extra grenade).
I used to enjoy FT/EG/rocket boots on a totally tanky build (pistol/shield), where I could blast through the front lines, wave FT at the squishy eles and necros, interupt them, etc and then boot back when it got too hot, but Anet nerfed a couple of skills that made it a lot less fun to play.
If you want piles of bags, choose necro, and don’t go zerker unless you like lying on the floor watching the fight, as the zerk thief and zerk ranger and zerk mes will all focus you.

First of all, if you find the necro more appealing visually, you’ll end up playing him the most!

If you want to zerg, go necro all the way. My WvW main is an engineer, and I get rekt every time I do 10m with a zerg because of retaliation. Necro is part of the zerg meta for a reason, and you’ll love the positioning that goes with the class much more than being in the melee train.

On the other hand, engineer is the funniest roamer in the game. Not only will you never loose to a power thief again (and that’s big in roaming), but it really FEELS like you’re a roamer, constantly casting skills, jumping behind every obstacle to LoS your foes, etc… My first character was a thief, and when I tried engi roaming, I never came back to roaming with my thief again! It works really well in small groups: Superior disengage capabilities, superior catching up abilities, group condi cleanse and heal (turret and EG), cc, everything! Give it a try, you won’t regret it.

Pros and cons of both:
(Take with a grain of salt because I main a Necromancer and am very bias towards the profession)

Necromancer pros:
- Permanent swiftness with Speed, Pack or Traveler runes. Spectral Walk and Locust Swarm both have extremely long base durations, you can stack them both indefinitely with enough boon duration.

- Wanted in zergs due to it’s ability to strip boons, apply blind and heavy damage to large groups. Necromancer is the backline bomber that, if skilled enough, can single handedly make a significant impact on a fight.

- Because they are powerful debuffers and have a high healthpool (also because GW2 isn’t balanced around 1v1’s) all professions besides a select few builds such as Medi-Guard, S/D Thief, LB Rangers and Lockdown Mesmers, will have a difficult time fighting you. Necromancers aren’t built to be duelists, they’re just a whole other beast to conquer. A ton of damage pressure, lots of sustain via Death Shroud and condition management and various ways to manipulate boons can make them a very scary opponent. Ironically (which you might already know) a good Necromancer is the hardest counter to an Engineer.

Necromancer cons:
- Although powerful in both small and large scale fights, Necromancers are very difficult to roam with due to having no way to disengage. If you ever plan to roam with a Necromancer, the only way you can make it work is by developing a sixth sense for danger, really being careful about who, when and where you fight and waypointing if a zerg heads your way instead of trying to outrun them, because you won’t.

- Heavy CC will destroy you. The end. Get used to being a ping pong ball, especially if you ever decide to take your Necro in to PvP.

- We have none of the following: Vigor, increased endurance regeneration via traits, blocks, reflects, invulnerability, stealth, weapon or utility mobility and low access to stability.

Engineer pros:
- Moderate mobility. Permanent swiftness in the same manor as Necromancer via increased boon or swiftness duration + a few leaps and super speed.

- Versatile and fun thanks to it’s complex style of play. You rarely know what you’re going to be up against when fighting an Engineer which almost always gives you the element of surprise.

- Some of the highest tagging potential in zergs with Flamethrower. If I’m not mistaken, it’s the same tier as Guard staff which means just spamming 1 will get you a truckload of bags.

Engineer cons:
- Few ways to manage conditions mean you’ll have to specifically build around masking this weakness if you plan to roam. Either by killing people before they can condition nuke you or having ways to survive when you do get nuked.

- Not wanted in zergs because they have no real support or utility. They do good damage and can tag lots of people but so can a Ranger.

- I’m not sure I can call this a “con” but because they’re also so difficult to master it will probably take you twice, if not three times as long to be completely effective with an Engineer. It’s likely you’ll die a lot more often until you fully understand it’s mechanics which can make it discouraging to play.

You’ll have a lot better time in the roaming department with an engi. If you build your necro for zerging, you’ll usually get eaten alive by a roamer. For zerging, a power wells build with staff is the way to go. Build out power with some survivability. You could do full zerker but I wouldn’t recommend it your first time out. If you’ve got the badges or gold, make a PVT set and a zerker set then find the point where you hit like a bus but don’t die needlessly (you will die a lot regardless because Wipes Do Happen).

Hell, you could probably get away with PVT on your armor and doing zerker trinkets. Then you can find the comfortable spot with your armor. I’m in about 3/4 zerker now with some knights and soldier mixed in. It works for me … any more zerker and I feel too glassy.

If you build out far enough into soul reaping to get death perception, your well ticks will get the +50% crit while you are in DS. So, drop your two damage wells and then pop into DS and watch the fun. Meanwhile you have two more AoE attacks in DS and your life blast is going to hit like a bus.

Use 1, 2, 3 on your staff while your wells are on cooldown and your life force recharges. Save 4 and 5 situationally. 4 is a great condi xfer that you should save for when you need it. Your condi cleanse heal is great but easily interrupted. You fear is likewise situational. Drop it on portals while while defenders are trying to run in. Drop it on enemies trying to stomp your friends.

Your second weapon main hand should probably be axe. It’s got an okay range, it hits hard, and it’s got a boon strip. Good for chasing down runners or for the rare times you’ll actually be doing anything single target. Some people run dagger offhand but I like focus for the vuln and the boon strip. That offhand is really a matter of choice and playstyle, either one is pretty good. Some people run warhorn but I don’t find it worth it. In this build you should be running with friends. If someone else can’t give you swiftness swap to the speed signet while you catch up.

Only two of your wells do damage, so your utilities should be Well, Well, ???, then plague or lich. In a power build Lich hits like the aforementioned bus and is also pretty much YOUR ONLY RELIABLE STABILITY. You can trait into short term stab when you enter death shroud but you have to give up 50% crit and that kitten ain’t worth it IMO. So again, Lich or Plague is really up to you and how you play. I tend to flop between them.

FWIW, this isn’t a roaming build but will work nicely in a small group for havoc. I’ve run havoc with a couple heavies and three power/well necros and you can clear a camp in about 3-5s.

I’m currently leveling an engi and have done some sPvP with it. I don’t have much experience with it yet but I can see a condi 3 kit engi being pretty good in a small group wvw setting.

Skroo.1560:

Your second weapon main hand should probably be axe. It’s got an okay range, it hits hard, and it’s got a boon strip. Good for chasing down runners or for the rare times you’ll actually be doing anything single target

I find dagger mh to be a better choice tbh. Similar ranged 2 attack but can immobilize. If you want to autoattack runners to death, staff or blast has longer range and damage.

Dunecoon.5134:

S
I was looking to make one of them my main for WvW,

That’s probably the problem! If you have both, why should one be the WvW-main?
Everything earned with one is available for both. Another reason against using one char for both roaming and zerging is: The optimal builds even on the same char are different. In roaming condi is king, in zerging condi is rather useless due to mass cleaning and condi stack cap. So having 2 chars with optimized builds is preferable (even if both are the same class, e.g. warrior)

Engie for roaming. Necro for Zerging. Very good combo!

When its ZvZ a Necro can use plague with the trait chilling darkness, and just spam 2 crippling the enemy zerg with both blind, and chill.

Engi.

Unkillable tank mode that does superior DPS at the same time. There is no downside to being an engi.

Like Dyra said, Necro for zergs.

Engie for solo roaming or duoing.

Either one is fine for a 5 man group.

Weapons and armor are fairly cheap these days, and eventually you will be able to buy multiple sets of trinkets from laurels/guild commendations.

My only advice is not to put expensive sigils or runes on wvw badge weapons/armor or temple karma armor, since they can’t be salvaged.

Ibbydibby.1238:

Engi.

Unkillable tank mode that does superior DPS at the same time. There is no downside to being an engi.

Well… Except that you get killed by good PU mesmers and even the most braindead condi necro. But yeah, in WvW an engi has very few weaknesses. I wonder why you see so few of them.

necro flourishes at large scale fights, even when their meleetrain is very heavy. Only a limited amount of hits (but they hit hard) so very little retal damage. also having an extra lifepool is very usefull in large scale fights where random aoe’s are always present somehow.

engi’s great power is mostly in smaller scale fights, groups with few retaliation. both engi and necro can do fine in small scale fights

in the debate about spiking, ele vs necro: it is true that the elementalist can deal alot more potential damage in a spike then a necro (120 frostbow hits+20 lava font hits=easy 250k dmge) however when the enemy zerg runs heavy retal the ele will get insta low/downed being a rallybot and not playing effective afterwards due to the low health. Necro has a smaller bomb (25 well of corruption hits+30 well of suffering hits) won’t reach the damage of the ele bomb. because necro only has 55 hits he’s less vulnerable to the retaliation. Also the necro having a large base health pool and another 15k DS hp gives him the opportunity to repeat his necrobomb on cooldown.
With other words: ele has a bigger bomb, but necro being a more effective bomber.

the krytan assassin.9235:

in the debate about spiking, ele vs necro: it is true that the elementalist can deal alot more potential damage in a spike then a necro (120 frostbow hits+20 lava font hits=easy 250k dmge) however when the enemy zerg runs heavy retal the ele will get insta low/downed being a rallybot and not playing effective afterwards due to the low health. Necro has a smaller bomb (25 well of corruption hits+30 well of suffering hits) won’t reach the damage of the ele bomb. because necro only has 55 hits he’s less vulnerable to the retaliation. Also the necro having a large base health pool and another 15k DS hp gives him the opportunity to repeat his necrobomb on cooldown.
With other words: ele has a bigger bomb, but necro being a more effective bomber.

Isnt the ele bomb on a fairly long cd as well? A Necro can do their all-in bomb about every 30 second. If you double up and use shackles+transfer as a secondary bomb we’re looking at 15s between decent bursts (this is all ignoring weapon skills usage in the meantime of course).

Necro unless you want to play some sort of weird focus party on engineer (honestly toolkit is only thing going for engie in WvW right now, don’t kid yourself with mines or nades).

Sorel.4870:

But yeah, in WvW an engi has very few weaknesses. I wonder why you see so few of them.

Many reasons.

-They don’t fit within the GWEN. After all, it stands for Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, and Necromancer.

-Some people enjoy a challenge. That is, they will avoid build/profession combinations that they find to be “too easy”.

-Some people (I fall into this one) simply don’t care for the design of the profession.

I’m sure there are more reasons than this.

Deamhan.9538:

-Some people enjoy a challenge. That is, they will avoid build/profession combinations that they find to be “too easy”.

That’s probably true. That’s why you see so many challenging SA thieves, PU mesmers, greatsword warriors, longbow rangers and medi guards roaming around! And that’s just the roamers! I didn’t even talk about the spam 1 folks in zergs. SD engineers and even celestial are among the more challenging build you see roaming, among with fresh air eles and shatter mesmers.